Alums and Fans Under 25 Have Never Seen Glory. Will They Live Long Enough To Ever See It?

In the wake of yet another disappointing basketball season with yet another lackluster ACC Tournament one-and-done, I got to thinking about some of the current students, younger alumni and fans of NC State — and how much I feel sorry for them because they have rarely if ever gotten to feel the absolute joys that being a Wolfpack fan has afforded me through my lifetime.  Sure, a few wins against Carolina and Duke in hoops, a Gator Bowl in football, Philip Rivers, a few other things, but nothing like beating UNC in the finals of the ACC Tournament.  Nothing like beating the most-feared basketball team of its era in UCLA.  Nothing like standing in the Brickyard watching a huge bonfire, celebrating with thousands of other students and fans knowing that NC State had won a very unexpected but well-deserved national title in hoops.  When Lorenzo Charles put in the winning basket for his team in 1983, it wasn’t just for them…it was for all of us, his fellow students.  It sure felt that way that night, out there on Cloud 9.  And today’s kids…well, they’ve never come anywhere near that moment.  It’s as far away as Jupiter for them.

For me, all of those things were an integral part of my childhood and student life.  For today’s younger Wolfpackers, they’ve never gotten to experience anything remotely close to it.  At the rate things are going, they will probably be my age — squarely rooted in middle age — before it becomes even possible for them to see the things that we old farts saw and celebrated.

Think of it this way: a current undergraduate student was about two years old — or not even born — the last time NC State won an ACC Tournament.

If a fan is twenty-five, they weren’t born when NC State won the second of their two national titles in basketball.

If a fan is thirty years old, they’re too young to remember the last ACC title in football.  Jimmy Carter was still president of the United States.

That’s a long time, folks.  Too damned long if you consider that NC State is the largest university in the state of North Carolina and that it has a huge number of living alumnae in this state who give millions of dollars to help their beloved Wolfpack compete.

I recently had an exchange with a 26 year-old alumnus who said

“I am proud of my Pack no matter what. They have their moments and you know what if they win tonight [against Maryland]  I’ll be extremely happy .   They then play WF, which they have played before and beat once out of the two games. If State goes to the NIT who cares at least they are getting some post season play. I am a young fan and no I was not there for the 73-74 team i wasn’t even born and I was only 1 during the ’83 team. State has a tough time closing the deal on most games.  You know what I do tune into the Wolfpack radio because I support my team win or lose and I will continue to support the Pack no matter what.”

I know that in her heart of hearts, this young lady loves NC State every bit as much as I do.  I know that she goes to the games, or listens on the radio or watches them on television and cheers just as loudly as I do.  Thing is, she’s never gotten the payoff for her loyalty, even if she is young.  She’s never seen State’s players laughing while they cut down the nets, not even in the ACC Tournament.   She’s been conditioned to believe that an NIT berth is a “good season” for hoops.  In my day, getting dumped into the NIT was a booby prize not to be valued with much regard at all.  If she remembers 1989, it is through the eyes of a six year old.  You get old enough, and memories like that start seeming like a dream you had a long time ago that you can only remember glimpses of now.  She doesn’t even have that.

So I feel sorry for her, because her University has let her down.  She has to cheer for a school whose administration cashes her checks but gives her lip service to excellence in return.  She undoubtedly had to work as hard as any of us did for her degree, but unlike me, she cannot expect that the athletic teams that represent her school will reflect the excellence that goes on every day in the classrooms across campus.

And that is wrong.  She deserves better.

It is unfortunate that the school doesn’t see it that way.

She deserves better because she keeps the faith even when it seems hopeless.  I respect that beyond measure — a fan who stands by their team through times thick or thin.  That’s what a “true fan” is…not some Johnny-come-lately who jumps on the bandwagon when a team happens to have success.

Like I said, she deserves better.

For those young fans, I wish I could say it would be better soon, that State was on the cusp of a golden age.  Unfortunately I can’t.  All I can say is that I hope you live long enough for things to change and for new blood to take over that actually cares as much as you do.

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81 Responses to Alums and Fans Under 25 Have Never Seen Glory. Will They Live Long Enough To Ever See It?

  1. Iremember87 03/13/2009 at 6:24 PM #

    I posted this on previous thread but it is more applicable here so here goes….

    I’ve been a member of the wolfpack club for 21 years. I arrived at NCSU in August 1983. I watched us win it all in ‘74. I watched us beat Georgia to go to the finals from a beach house in Cherry Grove when Easter/Spring break meant something. People were writing “Go Pack!” on their bed sheets and hanging them from decks and balconies on Ocean Drive.
    I was in Carter Finley Stadium for the first football game of the 83 season when the whole stadium erupted with a standing ovation before the game had started…Lorenzo Charles was walking down the steps to take his seat in the East stands.

    I remember these things like they were yesterday. My 16 year old son is a huge pack fan. It’s a shame “this” is what he has to remember

  2. fullmoon1 03/13/2009 at 6:31 PM #

    I think a message focused on the central problems at hand would me most effective and you can get more people on board if you keep it all business and not personal.

    For example: A major problem facing N.C. State Athletics is the Administration’s satisfaction with the status quo in a very competitive
    environment(the ACC).

    Even though emotioanlly I want to rant about how frustrated I am with Flowler, Oblinger, Lowe and certain players i think we need to stay on a unified message of the problem and specific solutions adn not give some of the powers that be the satisfaction.

    My example was extremely general but you get the gist of it. If it gets to personal we marginalize ourselves and there may be some disagreement as to what characters in this drama deserve the blame or credit, we can all agree that we need major improvement in the area of athletics. I think over the coming days we should prioritze teh complaints and present them often and emphaticly!

  3. BJD95 03/13/2009 at 6:32 PM #

    VaWolf – I don’t have to be surprised by how this season went to be pissed off about it. 🙂

  4. redfred2 03/13/2009 at 6:35 PM #

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  5. sautz 03/13/2009 at 6:39 PM #

    Thanks for the true journalism on this blog. Way too many don’t want to face the truth – other blogs and the idiot board I’m talking to you.
    At least I know I can find it here.

  6. PackWolf7 03/13/2009 at 6:52 PM #

    Alpha…the current day students and recent alums surely will not witness any miracles or strings of successful BB seasons in their immediate future, and maybe never. This last-two decade administration at State has destroyed the basketball program, and the present day acceptance of mediocrity and apathy has filtered down to the current day students and recent grads. It is in their blood before they even arrive at State. They go to games, dress up, yell, but sadly miss so much. So very much. They miss the competition. They just don’t have a grasp on what it can be, and what we had. They can’t feel the REAL PRIDE and attachment to a program that distant classes had. We are just pissing in the wind to expect that any sweeping changes will come to the BB program, and the kids today have just darn garn accepted things. THEY EXPECT TO LOSE AND ARE OK WITH THAT. So very sad. It has been WAY TOO LONG for the resurrection of BB at State, but things are what they are. Times have changed, as they say, and what students have at this University is acceptance of mediocrity, personified. They can’t dream of change, because they don’t know or recognize the past, or what it can be again. Today, it is what it is. Too much time has passed to allow them to recognize true true passion at their school. I am a State grad and lifetime State fan, have witnessed at State the White Shoe defense in the late ’60’s, the two National Championships in Basketball with Stormin’ Norman and Jimmy V, but can no longer dream of these golden years because of an administration entrenched with apathy. There is more to a University culture than the classrooms and labs. There is the blood, sweat and tears that comes with competitive sports and how it exudes down to the students, and give them lifetime memories and attachment, and WOLFPACK PRIDE. Isn’t this what it is all about? The total package? What other kids get at Carolina, Duke, Wake, etc.? Why not State????????

  7. roanwolf 03/13/2009 at 6:53 PM #

    I am a state fan. That’s the bottom line. I will be one as long as I live and breathe. I was ready to pull the trigger on LTRs and season tix but I think I will wait. I would hate to think that my increased donations would keep the current leadership in place.

  8. redfred2 03/13/2009 at 6:56 PM #

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  9. redfred2 03/13/2009 at 7:05 PM #

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  10. Fenrir 03/13/2009 at 7:06 PM #

    we who are old enough to have seen and expierenced what nc state basketball once was find the present condition unpalatable. the newer wolfpack generations have not witnessed the past glories to use as a measuring stick. you can tell a man that a hotdog is a steak until he eats a steak! i’ve had steak and what the current administration is doing is selling hotdogs!!

  11. BSIE80 03/13/2009 at 7:10 PM #

    I’m an older alum, seen the success. But I am like the younger alum. So, I think the older alum who complain about not being back to the glory years are the ones that need the attitude adjustment.
    Why cry so much. Just be faithful supporters no matter what. The victories are sweeter this way.

  12. Gbert 03/13/2009 at 7:17 PM #

    StateFoxer said “I have absolute faith that we will win an ACC tournament and potentially reach two Sweet Sixteens by the time I finally kick it.”

    I like your optimism, but even these achievements are not excellence. Dream bigger.

  13. redfred2 03/13/2009 at 7:19 PM #

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  14. Gbert 03/13/2009 at 7:19 PM #

    Unfortunately, we only have two out of Jimmy V’s critical three items: “But think about it. If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that’s a full day.”

  15. BJD95 03/13/2009 at 7:21 PM #

    Hey, remember the ACCT preview where I said the State/MD winner would have a great shot against Wake? Grrrrrrrr.

    Nobody plays down to their competition quite like the Deacons!

  16. redfred2 03/13/2009 at 7:25 PM #

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  17. gcpack 03/13/2009 at 7:27 PM #

    I have been perusing the last few articles & blogs following the Maryland game. The headline for this latest one is exactly what I have been thinking about this week.

    It occurred to me that if we continue along this mediocre route with b-ball that a generational change will occur and no one will appreciate what it means to be a State basketball fan. Right now we still have a large contingent of fans & alumni who still remember the productive years but if we don’t get a modicum of success in the next 10 yrs. then those coming into the work force after the next decade is up will not see the value of monetary support. (Some of you in the last few days have already fessed up to abandoning your donation of money to the WPC and ticket purchases.) Once a school has won a national championship it’s hard to be satisfied with anything less. (See Clemson) I believe that
    we as State fans don’t expect a national championship but want legitimate attempts at getting there. We are very fortunate to have two Nat. championships because that will always keep us in elite company. Look at all the talent our neighbors in Durham & Orange county have had in years when they came up empty. It is very difficult to win one much less two.

    To avoid losing the next working generation of supporters we need the improvement starting with next year’s team (and I know many are tired of hearing the next year phrase) but for Sid it is the only reasonable thing to do. If the same result occurs next year with Sid’s entire recruiting classes all his own then we should start the exit phase for Sid. In one of the recent articles there was comment about the leadership from freshman Julius Mays. That is why we need to wait and see what Sid will do with his own people once the underachieving Sendekians are gone.(God I hope Costner does leave, he is a cancer to the morale of this program). The senior class of this year’s team underachieved and provided no leadership that is usually expected of upperclassmen. They had talent but didn’t exploit it for the greater team good. That is the obvious problem with this team. To say that Sid isn’t handling the players correctly is overstating the problem. He sat Degand due to a discipline issue(twice) so what else do some of you want him to do? He came in babying the players ala the NBA mode but after taking advice from accomplished college head b-ball coaches last summer he re-tooled to it’s my way or the highway. This was probably too late for the Sendekians to accept but not for Sid’s recruits. Look at the improvement from Dec to now by Gonzalez. I think Sid and the staff get credit for that.

    BJD – I use bad language sometimes for emphasis, and don’t apologize for it. That’s very common in sports blogs. I certainly don’t do so in the majority of my posts. But sometimes, it’s appropriate. How about I don’t criticize you for NOT swearing, and we call it even? 🙂

  18. NJpack 03/13/2009 at 7:40 PM #

    Like a lot of folks on this board, I am a die hard fan and would like to give Lowe a sliver of hope – but I think the biggest reason why the Maryland loss hurt so bad was that Lowe was absolutely, positively out-coached on every level: MD ran the exact same game plan as the previous game we played with them, and we made absolutely no adjustments. Everyone knew MD was going to run the 3-2 zone; we folded like a stack of cards. Mays plays for the 1st time in 9 games; he made some good shots, but we still have no one who can penetrate against the defense. Not to mention the absolute lethargic nature of “the big 3”.

    The bottom line is any other coach with college-level experience could have easily squeezed 4 more wins out of these yahoos. We should have hired Greg Marshall from Winthrop after the big names turned us down. If we don’t fire Lowe now, can we at least fire Monty Towe? What in the world has that guy done? Someone has to go even if it’s just a sacrificial lamb. You can’t finish 10th, 12th, and 10th and not shake up the staff, beyond getting rid of Q.

  19. choppack1 03/13/2009 at 7:49 PM #

    I have a different perspective on this. I didn’t grow up a State fan. My Mom went to Wake, and I adopted them as my team in 82 when they beat UNC. I was 12 in ’83 when Charles’ dunk won the national championship and even though State wasn’t my team, I enjoyed the hell out of it.

    I WAS an ABC’er – but even in the mid-80s, as a Wake fan, I really didn’t fear NC State. I felt like you had a better shot at them than you did UNC – and they weren’t going to get the same calls. Unless, of course, the game was close – then you just knew that Valvano had “luck” on his side.

    This all changed at the tournament in ’88, I had been accepted to State, UT and was on the waiting list at Wake. Watching the State players joke around before the semi-final vs. Duke – which included Shackleford shooting 3’s as the horn sounded to begin the game, and gesturing the bench, the refs and everyone to wait as he shot another – I had an epiphany…I was going to State. They lost that game to Duke but played w/ a swagger and joy that V’s teams had.

    First year in college Sweet 16. Second year – probation. Third year, we brougt in Les. Unlike Sidney Lowe, hiring Les ACTUALLY MADE SENSE at the time. He seemed to have built a great program at ETSU and had a couple of winning seasons at the Citadel. The ACC, of course, is a different animal. I watched w/ sadness as we became the joke of the ACC…and of course, we became everyone’s second favorite team. There was no respect from these teams, just kind of a pity.

    I guess, what I’m saying, is if you’ve been a state fan since ’87 – your best memories are the Gator Bowl, dominance over UNC in football and the last Sweet 16.

    *Note: The one in ’88 wasn’t a great memory because we were robbed, and you didn’t know what the future had in store. Hell, it was a Sweet 16 – BIG DEAL, IT WAS V’S 4TH TRIP THERE IN 6 YEARS.

  20. Jamie 03/13/2009 at 8:05 PM #

    How long before Lowe’s contract extension?

  21. BSIE80 03/13/2009 at 8:16 PM #

    hotdogs are good with chili, mustard, and onions.
    Steak is over rated.

  22. redfred2 03/13/2009 at 8:20 PM #

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  23. redfred2 03/13/2009 at 8:50 PM #

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    BJD – If you accept the premise of this post, then that means we should NEVER hire an alumnus. A revenue sport coach at NC State MUST be judged 100% objectively, regardless of where he went to school.

  24. graywolf 03/13/2009 at 8:56 PM #

    As a 1979 alumnus, will I live long enough to ever see an N C State basketball team get back to the sweet 16 or higher. My gut reaction is no. Dr. Oblienger, the Board of Trustees and our Athletic Director do not care about the SUCCESS of athletics, only the revenue that sports produce for the university. It will take many more of you to follow suite and cancel your LTR and season tickets to basketball. The ONLY thing that our administration understands is MONEY. Become a rebel and STOP your purchases of tickets and walk away from LTR and a message will be sent!

    Jamie : Lowe got a 6 year deal to start out and has just finished season 3.

  25. highstick 03/13/2009 at 9:00 PM #

    I had this discussion with a bunch of younger State alumni on the light rail in Charlotte after we had just let Curry bury us against Davidson.

    It truly is sad that Obie, the BOT, the Wolfpack Club, the faculty, and Goober Fowler have allowed this to happen!

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