The Great Traveling Conversation, Part One

General Headscratchers NCS Basketball74

I’ve been dying to get around to putting this on the blog for over a month now…and, I promise you that we will be focusing more and more and more on this in the future. This basketball season has finally seen attention being given to one of my biggest pet peeves in all of college basketball:  horrible officiating of the walking violation. (One day we will get around to carrying the basketball; but, for now we will focus on the travel).

Four the last three years we have all gone nuts watching Tyler Hansbrough travel multiple times per game. In games played in the RBC Center in years past I have literally watched (live) as Hansbrough possessed the basketball and moved from outside the free throw line all the way to the basket without dribbling and without a walking violation be called. As 19,722 fans screamed and imitated the traveling violation, the three officials would just turn and run to the other end of the court oblivious to the most simple and usually obvious rule in all of college basketball.

So, imagine my happiness when the following following video from Bobby Knight (that can also be seen at this link on ESPN) originally aired on the network earlier in the season. Heck, I was so pleased when ESPN originally ran this that I went out and bought hardware that allowed me to digitally copy items from my Tivo and move them onto my computer. You MUST watch this.

Note that they show a quick clip from Duke in the video and then Knight focuses on ‘#50’ with one of his examples. The scary thing is that Knight only verbally identifies five steps in the previous video while the video editor obviously identifies SIX steps without a whistle. I throw this out to the community because we are going to talk about it a lot more in the future and we are going to beat this drum loudly. This is RIDCULOUS and the inconsistency of how the incompetence is applied is even more ridiculous.

Allow me to give you a couple of quick points of which I am working to create videos to put on the site to support the discussion:

* During State’s game in Chapel Hill last week, Javi Gonzalez got called for a very questionable travelig violation that served to negate a sure two points from Tracey Smith after a Gonzalez dish. Again, it was very questionable; surely not obvious. During that game, their were FIVE individual situations where a Carolina player CLEARLY travelled (with three or more steps) with NO call. In EVERY one of these situations Carolina ended up scoring (some were three points). This means that Carolina gained a net of 13-15 points on bad traveling calls in a game that they won by 9 points. (Again, I am working on videos to share with you).

* Please refer you to the following comments I typed just after Virginia Tech’s officially-supported run during State’s collapse in Blacksburg last month.

On the following inbounds play that gave Tech the ball because of the intentional foul, the receiver of the inbounds pass took — get ready for this — at least SIX STEPS without dribbing the ball and without being called for a traveling violation. I am not using hyperbole. I am not kidding. If you count the shuffling of feet as twp steps instead of one then you get to seven or eight steps. Again, this is not a joke. How in the hell can a college official MISS SIX-SEVEN-EIGHT steps with NO dribble?! (Again, we hope to have video later). Of course, the lack of the travling call benefited the Hokies who proceeded to hit a three point basket just seconds later.

Do you think that I am exaggerating? Take a look at the following videos for some representative examples of just how egregious some of these violations can be:

Wake @ Duke on 2/22/09: Duke shot 36 FTs while playing a perimeter offense; Wake shot 16 FTs while trying to attack inside

Josh McRoberts @ Duke

Tyler Hansbrough – Just a taste

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General Headscratchers NCS Basketball

74 Responses to The Great Traveling Conversation, Part One

  1. redfred2 02/24/2009 at 11:19 PM #

    statemech, I’d wager that you’re fairly young, and an NC State fan?

    Am I right?

    Well hell then, nobody expects you to be huge fan of BB. Why would you be?

  2. package5 02/25/2009 at 12:21 AM #

    I posted the VT travel video in the comments section of the last post about this after the VT game

  3. turfpack 02/25/2009 at 12:30 AM #

    I personnaly think this starts in these AAU BB leagues that travel all over the country. These kids are told{let by coaches& officals} to put on a show.The games Iv’e attended are dog and pony shows with very little defense or rules applied by coaches or refs. NO- the game is not what it use to be- well played and coached.
    Also wasn’t there an article in the N&O saying Hanswalker was upset he wasn’t going to the foul line as much lately- but didn’t want to say much in fear he might get in trouble with the ACC?

  4. BJD95 02/25/2009 at 8:20 AM #

    I think 90-95% of the problems with college basketball can be fixed by two things. First, adopt the “baseball rule” for draft eligibility. Second, require leagues to employ full-time, professional, independent officials who are graded similar to the NFL system. Hell, maybe even quit having LEAGUES hire officials, and have a central pool instead.

    I don’t support more academic requirements (baseball rule addresses kids who have no business in college) that programs like UNC and Duke would just leverage to their even greater advantage, or even the return to the “true” student athlete. I’m fine with it being a big business instead of the Ivy League.

  5. ktoh 02/25/2009 at 8:33 AM #

    While we are speaking of no business in college. Could anyone please shed some light on John Wall as far as taking 5 years to finish HS ,getting cut from his HS team his jr. year?
    Do we really want to go down this path?

  6. Alpha Wolf 02/25/2009 at 8:45 AM #

    I think 90-95% of the problems with college basketball can be fixed by two things. First, adopt the “baseball rule” for draft eligibility. Second, require leagues to employ full-time, professional, independent officials who are graded similar to the NFL system.

    Agreed 100%. The first would probably be litigated until you and I are well retired, and the second would be poor-mouthed by the NCAA, who would claim that they cannot afford it. Think about that for a second — their tournament contract alone is worth hundreds of millions annually, but they would try to convince people that they could not afford professional officials to protect the integrity of their sport.

  7. wufpup76 02/25/2009 at 9:00 AM #

    ^I’m on board with BJD and Alpha …

    The “baseball draft” rule should be the very next thing the NCAA pushes on … chances of it happening?

    Professional, independent officials … why do you want to go and do away with conflict of interests, too much travel and fatigue, missed calls and blown assignments? I can’t possibly fathom why this would be necessary. But hey – as long as Duke and Chapel Hole continue to exclusively benefit then I’m all for it.

  8. statemech 02/25/2009 at 9:24 AM #

    redfred – you’re exactly right, I’m a junior at State right now. I’m willing to bet there are a lot of young people that don’t get much out of basketball – many of my friends don’t. If they continue to let basketball be a crap fest then by the time my generation is having families basketball (NBA and college) will be struggling for viewership.

    Maybe I’m wrong to think that a majority of my age group is losing interest in basketball (Obviously I haven’t run any studies or anything), but authorities in the sport better make sure themselves before the end up with a problem on their hands.

  9. wufpup76 02/25/2009 at 9:30 AM #

    ^You’re not wrong statemech – the NBA has almonst singlehandedly crippled interest in the sport from the viewing public. I don’t care how much espn shoves it down my throat – I can’t stand it. And this is where college ball is headed, and pretty quickly at that.

    The NBA and AAU … acronyms that should just go away.

  10. Mike 02/25/2009 at 11:50 AM #

    What is the NBA?

  11. redfred2 02/25/2009 at 12:39 PM #

    “And this is where college ball is headed, and pretty quickly at that.”

    Pup, it’s not exactly “where they’re heading”, as a matter of fact, college basketball is ALREADY THERE. If not for the folks who remember and know what college BB is supposed to be, those of us who are clinging to the slight hope that this ONE thing might actually be turned around and headed back it’s proper direction, then the NCAA would already be trudging in it’s own little world of pooh pooh.

  12. redfred2 02/25/2009 at 12:46 PM #

    statemech, I played BB ALOT when I was young, so I have always just naturally loved watching the game. Even the NBA, back in my day, would make the collegiate game of today look like a lawless bunch of total anarchists.

  13. CannonballJunior 02/25/2009 at 1:50 PM #

    RabidWolf
    February 24th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
    CannonballJunior
    February 24th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
    Be reassured that all these examples really consisted of just one step and were completely legal.

    What is more, please understand that one of the several unfortunate side-effects of being in the Lunatic Fringe is mass-hallucinating of 2, 3, 4, 5, etc steps.

    Hansbrough (and for the most part the ENTIRE Duke roster) travels every time they touch the ball!!
    I am by NO means a pro baller, nor am I an official(wouldn’t want to be). However, my understanding of the rule is that a player, once he/she has STOPPED dribbling the ball, is allowed 2 steps toward the basket. If the player jump stops, either foot may be moved, while leaving the other foot planted as a pivot. All this jump stop plus 2 steps IS walking…period. So I’m a lunatic….or maybe I know the game just a little bit.

    No-no-no-no-NO. Listen Mr Fringe, these things you are seeing are only in your imagination. In the ACC we trust.

  14. NCMike 02/25/2009 at 3:51 PM #

    Adapt, adapt, adapt. And if it does change, adapt to that. Complaining doesn’t win. Never has. Never will. Life isn’t fair. Basketball, like everything else, has changed over the years. From no contact to a blood sport. From short pants to long. From segregated to integrated. What sport hasn’t … for good or bad experienced changes. But you must be Darwinesque or be doomed. I hate what its’ become now…too physical, too much dumbing down of the rules. But it is what it is. And unfortunately, if you want to be successful at anything, you have to adapt.

  15. redfred2 02/25/2009 at 5:21 PM #

    “Adapt” you say?

    I have no problem with that at all. Adapt to the the opposition, adapt to the shotclock, to the three point line, those ARE THE R-U-L-E-S of the game.

    How about if MLB starts routinely calling base runners “safe” when they are CLEARLY a step and a half away from the bag, just because that’s what some kids might be doing these days in their neighborhoods? How about if the NFL openly starts allowing it’s DB’s to push, prod, put their hands all and redirect the receivers so that they can’t go where they want to or get into any kind of route?

    That would be some good stuff, wouldn’t it? Yep, it’s not enough to adapt to the opposition, or the RULES as they are written, the referees have taken it upon themselves to decide what it is right and wrong, they figure they know what’s best, and those silly old rules were just made to be totally disregarded.

  16. BSIE80 02/25/2009 at 5:55 PM #

    Agree redfred.

    I too love the bb game. In my mind, these are the greatest athletes in the world.

    The college game is better than NBA because the underdogs still have a chance.

    If they could just clean up the officiating to make it more consistent, it would be a better game.

  17. TheCOWDOG 02/25/2009 at 6:20 PM #

    ^
    Almost went ballistic on NCMike, even after re-reading with the Ash Wednesday spirit that St. Cowdog is in.

    Red, I’m not gonna repeat your post ‘cauase your right there. With some minor exclusions.

    Receivers are already knocked off routes illegally and what’s worse are the non-calls when the receiver’s off arm is pinned in the act of a catch by the defender. That always gets my goat.

    I was a wideout for Lou, don’t think I’ve mentioned my position before….oh, while I’m at it. Am I the only ex-player on this blog? What the hell is wrong with me.

    OK…MLB consistently calls a pitch 2-3 inches off the black a strike. I’m here to tell ya, you can’t do shit with a pitch that far off the plate.

    How many times have ya’ll heard the expression ” He hit a mistake ” pitch?

    Do you guys know what that means? Other than a hanging breaking ball, if you hit a mistake it’s because it was within the everlovin’ strike zone!

    To this old cowdog, that’s a pitch you swing at…a freaking strike. Not sumpthin’ 2″ off the plate.

    In defense of NCMike, Id say that if I were a current college basketball player, I’d never, ever consider putting the ball on the floor anywhere near the paint for fear of losing both of my arms from elbow down.

    However, this Darwinism is for the young as they know the games.

    What theorists like Mike don’t understand is that there are a set of rules. Change ’em all
    or call ’em.

    The subjectivity sours me.

  18. Alpha Wolf 02/25/2009 at 8:56 PM #

    ^ Agreed fully.

    If it is a rule, it is a rule. Break it, and there are consequences.

    Isn’t this what we teach our youngsters?

  19. wufpup76 02/25/2009 at 9:23 PM #

    Here’s something really funny – and I mean REALLY funny …

    Reece Davis and Hubert Davis are doing the Va Tech – Clemson game currently airing on espn2.

    It’s late in the second half and Clemson has rallied to get close to VT … One of the refs apparently saunters over to Reece and Hubert and says: “How are you guys enjoying the football game?”

    I shit you not, that just happened.

    At least they are admitting that they’re allowing games to go this way. And what a f’n shock that it involves Jeff Allen and our friends from Blacksburg.

    If you don’t want to have to joke about the way a game is being played late in the second half, refs, MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE DEFINED THE GAMEPLAY EARLIER WITH SOME TIGHTER CALLS.

    I would say I can’t believe this, but then again this *is* the ACC.

  20. Dr. BadgerPack 02/25/2009 at 9:43 PM #

    ^That’s pretty dang bad…

    Even better: I flipped over to the Duke game and the absolute first thing I heard: “It looked like they could have called a walk on that.”

  21. NCMike 02/26/2009 at 8:10 AM #

    I’m not disagreeing guys…didn’t mean to rile so many. I have never been more fed up in my 40 years of watching ACC hoops (which I cherish). While rules are rules Alpha, unfortuantely in todays society, very few of them (even beyond bball) are enforced. All I’m saying is that to be successful, you can’t wait on the police! You can’t park in a handicapped zone but people do, you can’t drive drunk, but people do, etc. etc. Yeah, some get caught and some don’t. As far as subjectivity souring anyone, well, as long as you have people involved in anything, its going to be subjective. The cowdog is right, receivers do get knocked off of routes illegally, linemen hold, strikezones are crazy etc. THAT’S all I’m saying. I just see here too much effort in whining about what we can’t control and not enough concentrating on what we can. That being said, the article in today’s paper is just what I’m talking about…Sid adapting. He’s doing it, and now he’s getting results.

  22. redfred2 03/01/2009 at 1:22 AM #

    “I just see here too much effort in whining about what we can’t control and not enough concentrating on what we can.”

    I’m not quite following you again there NCMike. Are you saying that by just sticking strictly to the topic of the actual games themselves, that we posters here on SFN somehow have the power to “control” their outcomes?

    Or conversely, are you saying that we should all just shut up and happily accept the fact that the game of BB that we all love is rapidly going all to hell, because no matter what we say on this site, we have no “control” over what happens to it?

    I’m kinda cornfused.

  23. redfred2 03/01/2009 at 1:33 AM #

    Oh wait, I forgot, you’re another of those people that labels this kind of thing as PROGRESS, and then just steps aside.

    Righty O then, gotcha.

  24. NCMike 03/04/2009 at 10:19 AM #

    A little of both Red. As I said above, I hate what this game has become from a rule enforcement standpoint. Wayyyyyyyyyyyy to physical and travelling, palming and other ball handling skills aren’t being called properly. This affects all players.

    I’m not saying that we should shut up and accept it, for we need to lobby for change for sure. At the same time, I’m also saying we should not dwell on it because if it does change it isn’t going to come over night. Let me try this again more slowly. In the (hopefully) interim, I say that we should adapt, as other successful
    programs have, in order to stay competitive. And I’m certainly not limiting this philosophy to posters, rather to coaches, administrators etc. that can also affect change. Some more rapidly than us posters.

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