State @ Carolina Pre-Game Thread (Updated Wed 9am)

08-09 Basketball General175

Note: Originally posted by Alpha Wolf and amended on Wednesday by Jeff

State is obviously improving and has won back-to-back ACC wins for the first time this season. The Wolfpack also snapped a nine-game conference road game skid Saturday in Atlanta. For their part, UNC’s Tyler “Will.i.Am” Hansbrough loaned PG Ty Lawson some of his infamous determination last night.  Lawson put that to good use in the final minutes of the UNC-Miami game, as he led the Tar Heels win 69-65 in Coral Gables.

On paper this looks like a Tarheel romp, and all indications are that will be how it plays out. Yet Another has some nice general statistics. Speaking of statistics, Section Six will statistically show you Tracy Smith’s impact on our offense by clicking here. With that said, I fully expect Smith to be in foul trouble and on the bench within the first eight minutes of tonight’s visit to Chapel Hill.

Caulton Tudor has gone so far as to say that the Wolfpack’s goal in Chapel Hill tonight is simply to ‘compete’. Honestly, I can’t disagree with him. The talent differential between these two rosters is just too large and is only accentuated by the strength of Carolina’s backcourt compared to the struggles of the Wolfpack’s backcourt (which is definitely improving).

Tudor makes a legitimate point about the debacle in Chapel Hill last year…

For all practical purposes, State’s 2007-08 season ended on Jan. 12 with a 93-62 loss in the Smith Center. Sidney Lowe’s second team entered that game at 11-3 overall, on a seven-game win streak and with a resume that included respectable wins over Davidson, Cincinnati, Seton Hall, South Carolina and Villanova.

But after one of the most humiliating first halves in school history (UNC 43, Pack 13), the Wolfpack disintegrated. State won only four more games and lost all sense of team unity. That’s how fast you can slide from 11-3 to 15-16 and into oblivion.

…but he fails to mention that was one of the Wolfpack’s first games without injured starting point guard, Farnold Degand and with struggling freshman, Javi Gonzalez. Degand wouldn’t have meant a Wolfpack win; but his presence would have made a huge difference in the manner in which we were embarrassed.

Don’t forget, the Wolfpack went to the halftime locker room down only 41-40 in his Coach Lowe’s first trip to Chapel Hill before Coach was rushed to the hospital during halftime. So, I am not convinced that this program just ‘naturally’ gets clobbered in Chapel Hill.

If NC State can have their best game of the year – and our bigs get fair enough treatment from the officials to get to the free throw line for a number of shots proportional with the contact that they draw – then Pack could have fighter’s chance tonight because of the improved play of Farnold Degand in the backcourt and Courtney Fells on the wing. The team is surely aware that a win would be money on any regular season resume.  They’ll need a complete, forty minute effort against a Tar Heel squad starting to head towards its peak, and winning will be difficult.  Thing is, this is the ACC and anything can happen.

* WRAL has a lot of insightful comments from Coach Lowe regarding changes, substitution rotation, our post play and more that you can see by clicking here. This is interesting stuff.

Starting with the Virginia Tech loss, the largest number of players that have seen more than a minute of playing time in any one game is eight…

…”[We are] just looking at our team, being fair, giving everyone an opportunity and trying to narrow that thing down to eight players.”

* The N&O has recognized that for the second straight year that no players from North Carolina high schools will be starting in tonight’s Game. (Click here)

This is the second straight season that neither basketball team has had a starter from North Carolina. The 2007-08 season was the first time in at least 29 years that all five starters from each team came from outside North Carolina.

* ACCNow also has a video podcast that can be seen by clicking here. We’d love to embed their stuff, but their technical department obviously falls short of the talent of JP Giglio’s impressive administration of the site.

08-09 Basketball General

175 Responses to State @ Carolina Pre-Game Thread (Updated Wed 9am)

  1. redfred2 02/17/2009 at 8:37 PM #

    ^^correction…”not” feeling well…

  2. packalum44 02/17/2009 at 8:43 PM #

    I’d just be happy to score our first bucket before the 10 minute mark.

  3. packalum44 02/17/2009 at 8:52 PM #

    “What Seth showed was purely rational behavior. He knows he’ll either get tossed (unlikely, especially at home) or the refs will feel the heat and (consciously or not) even things out over the rest of the game.
    If he just sits back and takes it, they are going to lose the game regardless – so he has no incentive to do anything other than go postal.”

    I agree with this sort of. In hindsight his actions are rationale. Just like its rationale to defend yourself when you are getting mugged. But that’s not why you defend yourself. You defend yourself because of instinct and you are fueled by emotion. I could sit here and take the mugging or I can defend myself. If I defend successfully, then great. If not, then it doesn’t matter because I am going to get beat up and robbed regardless…why not go down with a fight? I believe Seth only had glimpses of these rationale thoughts as he acted out of emotion.

  4. packalum44 02/17/2009 at 9:01 PM #

    “Believing that the refs throw calls in an effort to determine outcomes…..this is all so absurd and so much sour grapes. And the ubiquitousness of it, every topic here manages to blame others, a long list of others, for the latest athletic failing. It’s not healthy, mature, productive or entertaining.”

    Not saying there is a conspiracy but to not believe refs manipulate games is naive. Have you forgotten about the NBA ref scandal that shocked the world last year?

    Most people blame NC State, Lee Fowler, and ourselves for continuing to support NCSU athletics. There are very intelligent and rational fans that post to this site.

  5. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/17/2009 at 9:10 PM #

    I’m not a coach and my instinct aren’t right a lot of the time but it seems to me that Lowe should play State like Ga. Tech plays D. Scrappy, swarming defense and a slow, deliberate offense. Give up some early fouls, play a lot of guys and hope State scores when we have an open shot.

    If State can keep the turnovers down, make open shots and hit free throws State can be in the game in the second half. If UNC presses early State must get some easy scores or it could be a long night. May be a good game to put Smith in early to give Ben or Brandon some rest.

    This will probably be a game that people question Lowe’s rotation but in my view he will have to play almost everyone to keep State in the game.

  6. BassPacker 02/17/2009 at 9:11 PM #

    Lowe announced tonite he will go with a 8 man rotation in Chapel Hill, with a combination Fells, Costner, and McCauley on the floor at all times. Maybe Sid is figuring out the college game.

    Go Pack, Beat the Tarholes !

  7. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/17/2009 at 9:20 PM #

    ^^Refs are human. They respect good players and teams. Clearly they favor some teams and players over others but I think most of them try and keep the games fair. Politics are a part of the game just like everywhere else in life. I think most refs do their job but are they influenced by great teams, smart coaches and outstanding players? I’m sure.

    This isn’t wrong so much as it is a part of the game. A Hansbrough will always get away with step that a Costner won’t. Maybe not fair but something that is understood. As a kid my older brother explained to me that Mike Gminski doesn’t foul ever. Craig Watts probably knows this better than me.

  8. highstick 02/17/2009 at 9:25 PM #

    “It’s sickening that the refs are weak enough to be manipulated this way, and that the league doesn’t do more to encourage and back up independent, no nonsense officiating. But the coaches are just working through the system as they correctly understand it.”

    So, BJD, just because you can get away with it, does not make it right under any circumstances. That sounds like Madoff, Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Tom Daschle, and any other crooked politician! Sounds like exactly the reason basketball is “in the tank” as well as our economy.

    What you’re saying if you don’t get caught and don’t get punished, then it’s ok?

    I think those stones really have you thinking irrational. Any thoughts of a Lithotripter?

  9. chuck 02/17/2009 at 10:07 PM #

    ^
    What would these coaches be getting “caught” for? The whole point is that they are working the system as it exists. They’re not “getting away” with anything, they’re just playing the game at a higher level than our last few coaches. To sum up: don’t hate the player, hate the game.

  10. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/17/2009 at 10:44 PM #

    Why do you think the tops coaches get paid more than the other coaches? Because they smell better? Or because they know how to draw better white board X’s and O’s. It is because they are better politicians. They can smooth talk parents, legislators and administrators better. It isn’t because they have some ‘secret’ coaching gene.

    Dean Smith didn’t dominate the ACC because he was a better coach, he dominated because he had great political ability that meshed with Bill Friday. A skill Sloan didn’t have after his mess with Thompson and later with Florida. Anyone know why Smith retired so young? Because he thought he couldn’t control the system anymore. Not because he was scared of K, Sendek and Williams.

  11. BJD95 02/17/2009 at 10:50 PM #

    If they were BRIBING the refs, then they would be commiting a criminal act to maximize their chances of winning, and that is definitely “wrong.”

    Loudly complaining about calls is a whole different ballgame. It’s just a means to an end, with no moral dimension. They have no greater societal obligation to be a “nice guy” about it or not work the system.

  12. JeremyH 02/18/2009 at 2:43 AM #

    Refereeing is unfortunately to some extend, subjective. Even some of the rules are not written in entirely clear terms. When an established program is playing, sometimes expectations play a role in the decision-making. Unfortunately refs fall back on this when they don’t know what really happened but have to make a call. (The NFL refs have been bailed out of having to make correct calls, with the use of challenges or booth review.) And don’t think K and Williams don’t teach their kids how much hand-checking is not called a foul, and how to take a phantom charge. An idealist dubs this “dirty” while a realist sees it as optimizing results in a system.

    I think this is one of those things we have to bite the bullet on and overcome with our play.

    Go pack.

  13. chuck 02/18/2009 at 8:17 AM #

    ^
    For the sake of our team, I want our coaches to be realists.

  14. smile102 02/18/2009 at 8:22 AM #

    I give the refs the benefit of the doubt. It’s a fast game; they have a lot to watch and are not always in a great position to see an infraction. They get 80% right, but when the 20% is obvious to the TV in slo mo at a critical time, it’s human nature to feel offended. They are professionals doing the best they can. And I agree that they are influenced by people and situations as we all are. Again, it’s human nature. That doesn’t mean they are dishonest as way too many of us here accuse them to be.

  15. primacyone 02/18/2009 at 9:14 AM #

    I really on have one desire for tonights game: A MONSTER Windmill Slam by Fells that is all over the top of Hansbrough.

    Adding a between the legs backwards pass from Javi to Fells to get it done would be icing on the cake.

    And I wouldn’t be dissapointed if it was Tracy Smith or Johnny Thomas instead of Fells that hammers it home either.

    I’m good with everything else and will watch the game in a most mellow state of mind.

  16. com state10 02/18/2009 at 9:29 AM #

    I ONLY care about:

    1. that this team to come out with energy, WIN the rebounding battle
    2. that this team to play efficient, WIN the turnover battle.
    3. that this team gets back on transition defense.

    If they do those three things, we will have continued to improve and kept up the momentum we have built over the last few games, and position ourselves very well to finish out the ACC season strong.

  17. primacyone 02/18/2009 at 9:40 AM #

    ^I like those points as well.

    Heck, If we WIN the rebounding battle AND WIN the turnover battle, we might WIN the dang game.

  18. wufpup76 02/18/2009 at 9:49 AM #

    ^I do not think they (the refs) are dishonest, either …

    However, I do feel team and player reputations play a part – it’s human nature.

    The biggest problem I’ve always had with ref’s calls are anticipatory calls – blowing the whistle when a guy goes up in the air and anticipating a foul. Duke used to get a TON of these type of calls (and still do for that matter) – a Duke guy on defense falls to the floor he obviously drew a charge – right?. I’m not saying that the refs wanted Duke to win, what I am saying is that K’s and Duke’s reputations preceded them.

    A ref’s call should ALWAYS be reactionary. Call the game as it happens, not what you think will happen. Now, some guys will flail around and grunt loudly and draw a phantom reactionary call (Julius Hodge anyone?) – and that’s part of it. But I’d rather a ref make a call as a reaction to what he thought happened as opposed to blowing the whistle before the guy even releases the shot (JJ Redick and Jared Dudley with their “kick out the legs and fall down on 3 point attempts).

    Aside from reputation calls, there’s also consistency. Smile, I’ve never thought refs “cheat” for Hansblah or the Holes, but he got a reputation very quickly as a freshman and it’s been the same ever since. I don’t think there’s very much consistency at all to the way games are called or have been called when Blood is playing. It’s been consistent in so far as that it’s ok for him to go all out, but not his opponent – and that’s uneven. The numbers simply do not lie. Are the numbers skewed in his favor because he is a good player and will draw a lot of fouls? Yes, absolutely. That said, does he get calls that other guys won’t get? Yes, absolutely – almost all good players with reputations do. He’s the most physical player in the league – does anybody argue this? He gets fouled, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t foul … or walk … or walk … or walk.

    All I’m hoping for is that the calls go both ways with consistency and as accurately as possible. Call the games as they happen. If 50 bowls over somebody, call it. If 50 flops, call it. Same for our guys. JUST BE CONSISTENT. Reputations should be left at the door so far as refs are concerned. *This* is what makes me jump out of my skin, not some grand conspiracy where the refs are cheating for or against teams or players. It’s fun (for me) to tease about that and talk about how “the league protects Duke and Holelina”, but if a game is called evenly and consistently for EVERYBODY involved I’m happy and can take a loss (so far as the calls are concerned).

    Anyway, Game Day !!!

  19. PackWolf7 02/18/2009 at 10:02 AM #

    Ok guys and gals. I have been a post Coach V boo-bird for a long time now. Problem is, I’m sick of it. And, the sense that I get on this board today is that there just may be a lot of other people who are tired of complaining about the program, where it is, where it has been, the future, etc. Maybe we are starting to realize that it is what it is, but maybe, just maybe, with a little support toward the team and Coach Lowe, we can start to turn this thing around. Will we win tonight? Based on records, talent, etc., probably not. We have a lot of those McDonald’s Cheeseburger boys to worry about tonight. However, that being said, State does have some talent, ie Costner, MAC, Fells, Mays, Smitty, etc. Backcourt has problems, but it is IMPROVED. I seem to even sense some effort and HEART being displayed by the Pack. We had this lacking last year and earlier this year. Bottom line, I’m hoping for a small miracle tonight – that the Pack wins. A win, no matter how they do it, would put some energy back in the program and open some eyes of potential recruits. Listening, John Wall? Stay home, play for the Pack. Be a part of something we haven’t had in years. GO STATE!

  20. inhoc... 02/18/2009 at 10:26 AM #

    does anyone know if a good pod cast for wolfpack sports? i can’t find one worth a damn on iTunes, just the old amato show…

  21. RSP123 02/18/2009 at 10:32 AM #

    Coach V would preach the 3 Es: Emotion (love to play the game, love to play for your school) Effort (always give maximum effort) and Execution (proper emotion and effort with practice lead to execution) Maybe – just maybe – we are beginning to see this in the team. V would also say that you need to “play to the level of the game” even if the odds were against you. This is the only way you give yourself a chance to win. That is what I am looking for in tonight’s game. Do we play with the “3Es” and “to the level of the game.” If we do that then win or lose, this team mentally and physcially may be turning the corner at the right time.

  22. Classof89 02/18/2009 at 10:54 AM #

    Meh, this game is a throw-away to me. We aren’t good enough to make the NCAAs, and the most important games to win to make the NIT are next week (starting with the home game vs. Virginia). No rational person thinks we can stay within 10 points of UNC. Stranger things have happened in ACC play over the years than our winning the game (starting with some of Les Robinson’s awful teams that seemed to have no problem beating UNC), but even if we win, it will be largely a side show to where each of these teams are headed at the end of the season. UNC losing to us will have only ga minor impact on their ability to nail down a No. 1 seed (assuming they bounce back like they did after the 0-2 start to ACC play).

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see us hanging tough, only because UNC probably doesn’t view us as an opponent worthy of their “A” game. Roy will do his best to get this notion out of their heads, but what do his players (nearly all of whom are from out of state) care about this so-called “rivalry”? To them, we’re just another chump team from the bottom of the ACC standings. And though chump teams sometimes pull of upsets, they are usually just fodder for another regular season championship for the Heels. We might not like these facts as State fans, but that doesn’t change that they are facts…

  23. 61Packer 02/18/2009 at 11:26 AM #

    Let’s go let’s fight
    Let’s compete tonight………
    Let’s go, let’s fight
    Let’s compete tonight………….

    Growlllll……

  24. Daily Update 02/18/2009 at 11:45 AM #

    Class of 89: We aren’t going to win, so it doesn’t matter. But I would wholeheartedly disagree with you about where this team would potentially be headed if they were to beat UNC tonight. The NCAA tournament would actually be a realistic goal for this team with a win. The current RPI is in the 80s, so beating UNC on the road would jump that into a range where we can play our way in the rest of the season.

    We would have three home games we would be favored to win(Maryland, UVA and BC) and two road games where we would be underdogs, but beat both of those teams already this season(fading Miami and WF).

    With a win over UNC and three more wins, 8-8 with one win in the ACC tourney would be very, very close to getting us in the tournament. Another win in the ACC tournament would make us a lock as would 9-7 with 1 win.

    Of course, we know winning tonight is near impossible because UNC is a great, great team.

    That is how close we really are/were to being an NCAA tournament team this year. With just one of the OOC losses as a win and the VT game we clearly should have won then we would be 15-7, 5-5 and right in the hunt even with a loss tonight to UNC. 4-1 the rest of the way would have made us a near lock for the tournament.

  25. JimValvano 02/18/2009 at 11:51 AM #

    There is something going on here. Roy is saying that Hansbrough has a concussion…people are still talking about how Ty Lawson is sick…the ‘Holes are on a long winning streak…we’re looking like a team that could be starting a streak…I dunno…maybe the Hansbrough “injury” and the Lawson “sickness” might actually be the beginnings of the typical Tarhole list of excuses as to why they lost a game. I think Roy senses that we may be ready to pull the upset and that his team is primed to be upset. Our guys still consider this game a rivalry game, the tarhole guys…don’t. We should have the emotion mentioned in an earlier post that the ‘holes don’t. For some reason, I think Fells goes Lakista McCuller on their holes and we celebrate on their home court. We’ve improved dramatically over the last few weeks and they are the same as they were to start the season…if not worse. I think we’ve got a shot. I’m gonna predict NC State 82 Tarholes 74

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