Let’s See How It Turns Out In 3-4 Years, Jamie Newberg

'09 Football Football Recruiting Tom O'Brien64

Google’s news snoop sent me a link a little while ago where a roundtable of Rivals.com national analysts talked about the college football signing classes that they ranked as the ‘most disappointing’ for the year.

Jamie Newberg’s answer: I think what North Carolina State did was a little disappointing, especially with the way they finished the season on the field. You would have thought they would have had a ton of momentum after they crushed archrival North Carolina and rallied for a bowl bid. But the Tar Heels dominated recruiting in-state, to the extent that the Wolfpack didn’t sign any of the state’s top 10 players and only three of the top 35. NC State finished No. 52 nationally, a big drop-off from last year (No. 31), and the biggest reason is they didn’t get their in-state share.

My first reaction (after rolling my eyes) was to mutter “come back in three or four years and re-rate this class then, Jamie” and my second was that these experts never seem to get Tom O’Brien: he doesn’t recruit stars, he recruits players that will fit into his system.  Matt Ryan was a three-star QB and ranked #44 coming into college.  He didn’t graduate that way, and was one of the two best rookie QBs in the NFL last year.  Just for example.  Dan Koppen, a Pro Bowl center with the New England Patriots was not blessed by the Jamie Newbergs of the world, but he’s good enough to have started three years for Tom O’Brien and goood enough after college to be rated as an all-star by his peers.   On the other side of the ball, Jeremy Trueblood was another lowly rated recruit that ended up as an All Big-East player by the time O’Brien was done teaching him and is now starting for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

In Raleigh, Scout.com two-star Russel Wilson certainly seems to be working out under center.  Four-star Mike Paulus over at UNC?  Not so much.  Maybe there is something O’Brien’s ability to recognize good skills when he sees them after all.

I will also add that on the field, O’Brien managed to recruit players into Boston College that were tough on the field and that by the time he left he had built a championship-caliber squad that former head coach Jeff Jagodzinski rode to two ACC Title game appearances.  Jagodzinski couldn’t replicate O’Brien’s success in recruiting and got out while the getting was good once O’Brien’s players started exiting the BC program.

In other words, Tom O’Brien has probably forgotten more about recognizing coachable talent in prep players than so-called experts like Jamie Newberg will ever know.

'09 Football Football Recruiting Tom O'Brien

64 Responses to Let’s See How It Turns Out In 3-4 Years, Jamie Newberg

  1. BSIE80 02/10/2009 at 8:41 PM #

    3) Should have been – personality is dull
    4) should have put in Evans when RW got hurt in bowl game instead of the turnover machine.
    5) could have utilized A Brown more as a receiver out of the backfield
    6) G Bryan (TE) could have thrown to him more, he seemed to always make big plays
    7) Got beat by Clemson, South Carolina, and South Florida
    8) Only one 6 games this year and blew the bowl game

  2. buttPACKer 02/10/2009 at 8:42 PM #

    . . . talking heads.

    personally, i’m quite happy with this year’s class. . . TOB is putting in the foundation, and i have all the confidence in the world in him. I can honestly say if it were possible to swap programs–and recruiting classes–with UNC, I would much rather keep Coach O’brien & co. and what he has brought to west raleigh. I can say that without reservation.

  3. BSIE80 02/10/2009 at 8:50 PM #

    On a more positive topic:
    Our offense should be good this year from week 1.

    Will Nate Irving be back next year? He is the man.
    Also, I hope Terrell M is fully recovered because he is a man also and can help the defensive. We should have solid linebacker play.

  4. redfred2 02/10/2009 at 8:53 PM #

    Chop, there were holes for sure, but even Amato didn’t recruit 300lbs defensive linemen because they could catch the football on a long post route. AND, he didn’t try to re-invent the entire game of football for them, after they arrived in Raleigh. I’d say that is a pretty fair comparison to what Lowe was dealt when he arrived.

  5. redfred2 02/10/2009 at 9:06 PM #

    I’m happy as hell to have TOB, and for the FB program in general, but it just cracks me up how differently these two programs are being treated considering ONE OR TWO athletes have meant so much to one program, and the other program is getting nailed to the cross when there is not even one halfway comparable player involved out of a five man rotation.

    It is ridiculous. Now, if someone happens to show up to play possessing all of RW’s moxy and instinct for the game of BB, and Sidney Lowe craps in his bed, then by all means, sling pooh at him until the cows come home. But until then, I think you folks look a little foolish when comparing your takes on the the two programs.

    SFN: We think it’s pretty clear whose take looks foolish. There are at least 100 more effective defenses of Sidney Lowe’s performance than a laughable attempt to discredit Tom O’Brien.

  6. RagingWolf 02/10/2009 at 9:13 PM #

    Going 4-4 in the ACC this year in FB is a bright spot in my Wolfpack life. Beating Wake, UNX, Duke and Miami was refreshing. Hanging tough with FSU and BC was also encouraging. All this with no depth in most positions (offense and defense) was truly remarkable. At one point, we had 42 scholarship players available which means we had walk-ons as 2nd on the depth chart in some positions. We played smart (minimal turnovers and penalties).

    Next year is the first year since Rivers’ senior year where we start the season without a huge question mark at QB. We have little-to-no depth problems. We have a large number of red-shirt freshmen ready to contribute. We only lost a handful of seniors and none of our underclassmen declared for the draft.

    Depending on how our schedule is,we might get a good start to the season for a change and have a really good season. This could pave the way for a higher ranked recruiting class next year.

    This year’s recruiting class filled A LOT of holes. These guys will be solid contributers and a couple of them will prove to be studs. Next year we might be able to bring in the 4-star recruits.

  7. RegularExpression 02/10/2009 at 9:16 PM #

    I heard Dave Glenn say that of the players that came for official visits, 80% committed. To me that says that TOB got the class that he wanted for the most part, and if he is happy with the class then I’ll be happy with it as well.

    I do wonder if he will set his sights a bit higher in future recruiting classes now that we appear to have filled the gaping holes in our roster with the last two classes. I did think that was one reason that he left BC, the more fertile recruiting territory in the south.

  8. redfred2 02/10/2009 at 9:29 PM #

    Some people may be, but I’m not too hung up on the number of “stars” beside their names anyway, and especially in football. TOB has had ENOUGH TIME in the head coaching ranks to prove that he can spot what he wants, and then develop it into what he needs, after he has a chance to teach his philosophy. Now as far as conditioning, as it pertains to the prevention of injury, I think possibly some changes could be made there in both of the big money sports.

  9. newt 02/10/2009 at 10:01 PM #

    In basketball, I want to know what the player was ranked, was he a McDonald’s All-American, was he a Parade All-American, and who else offered.

    In football, I want to know if the coach got the players he wanted most with a slight interest in who else offered.

    There is just no comparison between football and basketball.

  10. dtwncsu 02/10/2009 at 10:01 PM #

    TOB is a coach building a program from the ground up. He has won in the past with not so high recruiting ranks, so why worry now. A good player can be better than a great player if he receives the right coaching. We didn’t do so well in the state recruiting, but TOB knows what it takes for a player to work in his system.

  11. Wulfpack 02/10/2009 at 10:14 PM #

    Red, your point is well taken. There is no doubt the basketball program has been deficient a point guard for some time, and that has been a major issue and costed us many games. However, there have been a host of other issues. You can’t just ignore that.

    Secondly, TOB is a proven motivator and a proven winner. He’s been doing it for years while Sid’s never won when wearing a suit and tie and not sneakers.

    I am VERY optimistic about the direction of the football program even IF RW decides to play baseball after this year.

    I am in no way, shape, or form optimistic about the future of the basketball program. And a whole hell of a lot of that has to do with my reservations about the guy leading it.

    Let me put it to you this way. If TOB were on the open market, he’d have a job in no time. The same cannot be said for Sid. There is a reason for that, it isn’t simply conjecture.

  12. packalum44 02/10/2009 at 10:40 PM #

    Scout had Jarvis Byrd rated a 2-star…Rivals a 4-star
    Scout had Denzelle Good and Asa Watson 4-stars…Rivals 2 or 3

    These sites have very limited resources. They cannot evaluate everyone. I hope you realized they didn’t evaluate several of our recruits until their senior years, in fact, until after TOB recuited them.

    TJ Graham was a 3-star. He runs a sub 4.2 40 (on the track) and set return records for a freshman. TOB found Vermiglio who as a true freshmen handled Chris Long as a senior. TOB and Bible DEVELOPED Wilson into the best QB in the ACC during his freshman year. I love Wilson and think he is incredibly gifted up top, but he is certainly not physically gifted as far as QBs go….Bible and TOB did one hell of a job. I shudder in gleeful anticipation at what these guys might accomplish.

    Curtis Crouch is one of the most heralded offensive linemen we’ve ever had (high 4-star). Guess what, he got kicked off the team because he was lazy.

    What I am more concerned about is this…is TOB getting better talent than he had at BC? The answer is a resounding YES! I remember him saying that 9 or 10 wins was as good as you could expect at BC. He literally said that when he was hired. I’d be delighted to win that many and average 14th in the AP ranking. That is damn impressive. But guess what? TOB didn’t come here to be a 14th ranked program. He came here to be better. I truly believe in him with every bone in my body (yes, I’m the same guy who called out Lowe before it became a fad, never the eternal optimist).

    Let’s start with an ACC championship next year and and see what happens. Depth and good character come first with NFL talent scattered in. Depth, character, and boatloads of NFL talent come next.

  13. redfred2 02/10/2009 at 10:55 PM #

    Wulf, those are all fair statements.

    I’m not saying that I’m confident in Lowe either at this point. He still seems to be experimenting on a game to game basis, doesn’t put the plug back in that powered the show just a few days before, and is very indecisive in too many areas at this stage. I can’t figure any of that out at all, but I am going to have to say that the way some of these players come out to play from one game to the next is baffling as hell to me personally also.

    I don’t if you remember me pointing out what Ben McCauley said in the post game interview after the unc game? Anyway, he said something like, he hoped he had learned from his lack of a genuine effort in that particular game, and he hoped that he could carry it forward into the rest of the season. WTH??? This a senior we’re talking about, aren’t we!!!

    Then what did he do against Vatech? Why so late? What the hell took so long for that bell to ring his head??? Will that bell have to be constantly reminded that it is supposed to RING every time out, the next time, and the time after that???

    I’m not making excuses, but there is something very unnatural in the way some of these kids have handled/squandered their privileges to play collegiate basketball. If it was a separate incidence involving just one player I’d better understand, but it’s more than that.

    It’s a dilemna that may be forcing Lowe to play certain players that he’d possibly rather not at the moment, but then he’d only lose by even bigger margins because he just doesn’t have anyone any better available right now. It’s a double edge sword kind of thing that I believe is making this whole scenario look even more out of balance than it may actually be.

    That’s A-L-L conjecture, but the inconsistency coming by way of the bench is no less confusing then focusing the inconsistency of certain players when they are out on the court and free to just the play game of BB to the best of their abilities.

  14. choppack1 02/10/2009 at 11:04 PM #

    redfred – Once again a couple of key differences.

    1) Lowe is in his third year and is struggling. TOB was in his 2nd year here.

    2) It was obvious that Lowe and TOB both needed “quarterbacks” – Lowe has brought in a total of 5 guards – not one has shown the ability to run the team OR average double figures. OTOH, TOB brought in Glennon, even though he already had RW. One has addressed his needs – the other has not.

    3) In TOB’s first season, he won more conference games than his predecessor did the previos season. The next season, he improved upon that total. OTOH, when we beat Miami in basketball a couple of weeks ago, Sidney Lowe had finally enough combined regular conference season wins that his predecessor had in his final season.

    But you’re right – luck and fortune shines on some and doesn’t seem to shine on others. I’m sure that both Amato and the other guy – who both came really close to very special moments in Wolfpack history, will verify that as well.

    In the end, you can’t blame luck or “guys not running their stuff” – it falls on the coach. It’s a slippery slope and pretty soon, it’s only the people with whom relate or w/ whom you are sympathetic that get the benefit of the doubt.

    Lowe’s definitely had some challenges and tough breaks since he’s arrived – but that doesn’t make his situation unique. Successful coaches overcome these obstacles (though not always immediately), unsuccessful ones don’t.

  15. redfred2 02/10/2009 at 11:46 PM #

    “1) Lowe is in his third year and is struggling. TOB was in his 2nd year here.”
    …
    Uh Chop, please refer back. I was talking about TOB’s first three years as HC in college football, not just at NCSU.
    …

    “2) It was obvious that Lowe and TOB both needed “quarterbacks” – Lowe has brought in a total of 5 guards – not one has shown the ability to run the team OR average double figures. OTOH, TOB brought in Glennon, even though he already had RW. One has addressed his needs – the other has not.”
    …
    Uh chop, do you think that TOB might have had connections and possibly known something about Glennon before he arrived in Raleigh, and even more importantly, visa versa. Now, do you think Sidney had those connections right from the start? If so, where did they appearfrom? And, has had time to build to those types connections at NC State even now?
    …

    3) In TOB’s first season, he won more conference games than his predecessor did the previos season. The next season, he improved upon that total. OTOH, when we beat Miami in basketball a couple of weeks ago, Sidney Lowe had finally enough combined regular conference season wins that his predecessor had in his final season.
    …
    Chop, that is complete BS. Herb SHOULD be able to beat Sid’s ass up one side and down the other, lord know’s he sure hung around here long enough that he should have at least learned how to beat a rookie collegiate coach anyway. But then again, he should have learned how to beat Roy and K on occassion by now too, so who the hell knows? Also, it was sure great about the excitement and enthusiam involving the program when he left. And seeing alot of his older players were so excited about playing BB at NCSU again, that they decided to throw in the towel or move on before they even close to being ready.
    …

    “But you’re right – luck and fortune shines on some and doesn’t seem to shine on others. I’m sure that both Amato and the other guy – who both came really close to very special moments in Wolfpack history, will verify that as well.”
    …
    Huh? Now wait a minute, you aren’t putting Herbie Boy and Amato in the same company, are you? Is that really you chop?
    …

    “In the end, you can’t blame luck or “guys not running their stuff”- it falls on the coach. It’s a slippery slope and pretty soon, it’s only the people with whom relate or w/ whom you are sympathetic that get the benefit of the doubt.”
    …
    Uh Chop, is it the language that bothers you or what? Because from where I’m sitting, “guys not running their stuff” is the exact same thing as what one certain and former coach said about eight million times. That would be “(We) didn’t execute when (we) were supposed to”, or “(We) didn’t take good shots when (we) were supposed to.

    I guess Herb was saying that “we” really meant HE didn’t execute, from the bench sorta I’m guessing. And that when “we” didn’t take good shots, meant that HE didn’t take good shots, again, from the bench sorta kinda.

    Maybe if Sid could tighten his butt cheeks enough to Herbonicate to you, you would then see that both he and Lowe were/are basically using the EXACT SAME LAME EXCUSES in all of those statements.
    …

    “Lowe’s definitely had some challenges and tough breaks since he’s arrived – but that doesn’t make his situation unique. Successful coaches overcome these obstacles (though not always immediately), unsuccessful ones don’t.”
    …
    (though not always immediately), I think I’ll just let that be my reply there as well.

  16. frankiepack 02/11/2009 at 7:58 AM #

    ^ Thought you said you had enough redfred??? It is very lame to even talk about TOB and Sid in the same light absurd to think like BSIE as well,I don’t hear talk out of TOB’s camp about wait unil the year after next year.
    Bottom line a coach is judged by what he puts out on the floor. This bb program is pitifull and disgrace.
    Perhaps that is why gopack is offering discount tickets for tonights wake game?

  17. packplantpath 02/11/2009 at 8:13 AM #

    Gesus.

    This is just absurd.

    There is a very simple reason why people criticize Sid for his first seasons and don’t criticize TOB for his (admittedly similar, though better) seasons.

    We know, and I think most of us could live with, TOB’s ‘success floor’. We would not love it if we never got above his floor, but I could definitely live with 8 wins consistently, and a few better years interspersed.

    Hell, I would be perfectly content with a BB team that lost to UNC 80% of the time. IF they are actually competitive with them, and IF they win most of the other games and are a team that consistently makes a decent run in the tournament. I know, hard to believe, it’s not just about UNC and Duke!!!!!

    We know what TOB is capable of accomplishing; he has a long history to look at, and in general, it is good. In the college ranks, Sid has no history, but he is on track to beat his NBA win % (I think)………That’s good, right?

  18. VaWolf82 02/11/2009 at 8:29 AM #

    That’s enough about Sid versus TOB. I don’t feel like cleaning these comments up, but I will be deleting further ones from this point on…even thought this is Alpha’s entry.

  19. ChiefJoJo 02/11/2009 at 8:57 AM #

    Like I said on the signing day thread, recruiting does matter & numbers matter on a macro scale. By that I mean comparing dozens of players over several years versus comparing one or two sleepers (RW v Paulus). Top 10 classes do not guarantee success, but make it a whole lot easier, and the correlation is strong.

    TOB’s track record at BC helps make the case that this class may not be a major concern. However, let’s not try to sugar coat the fact that we did not sign a single player among the top 10 in NC, when TOB himself has said recruiting this state was his #1 priority. We missed on Donte Moss, Nixon, Boyd, and a few others who we offered and very much wanted from all accounts. Yes, the true measure of this class will be evaluated in 5 years, but let’s not find ourselves trying to make that case year after year as UNC cleans our clock recruiting within the state of NC.

    I am confident O’Brien is the right man to lead our program, but we need to step up our efforts next year.

  20. Sam92 02/11/2009 at 9:19 AM #

    chief you make a good point – i do think TOB deserves praise for what he’s done so far with what he’s had to work with, and i don’t think he has to recruit the kind of wattage that butch davis pulled this year, but we really should be better at in-state recruiting than we were this year. i might have a different take if TOB came out and said that he wasn’t focused on NC recruits, but he hasn’t done that.

  21. Noah 02/11/2009 at 9:26 AM #

    If Tom O’Brien does no more than what he did at BC (a school with tougher entrance requirements, limited funds, limited geography and a poor recruiting base), we’ll name the stadium after him.

    If Lowe does no more than what he’s done before…oh wait, that’s exactly what he’s doing.

    Sorry, nevermind.

    BTW, anyone who thinks we don’t want the best players in football doesn’t know what they are talking about. The very first day that in-person contact was allowed, Tom O’Brien was at Xavier Nixon’s high school delivering a hand-written scholarship offer. I’m sure that we’ll be doing the exact same thing to Robert Crisp this year. And I’m sure that we did the same thing with Donte Moss.

    I like this class. Our biggest problem last year was depth. I really don’t care what redfred (didn’t you quit this site?) says. Russell Wilson helped, but it was being down to 40 scholarship players that killed us, not JUST Wilson being out. If Wilson had suffered a season-ending injury in the South Carolina game, we would have just gone with Mike Glennon and probably ended up in exactly the same place…we just would have gotten there a little differently.

    Arguing over Evans and/or Beck is like arguing over whether hemlock is tastier than cyanide (the latter probably, since it supposedly tastes like almonds).

    When one guy goes out, it’s critical that the guy behind come in and do at least a serviceable job. You need to be able to lose any player on the field without collapsing like a deck of cards.

    For instance — against Miami, I forget who was playing middle linebacker, but he picked up a big personal foul penalty…a really STUPID one. O’brien yanked him. The backup comes in and on the next play, he misses a tackle and gives up 15 yards. You can’t have that.

    Clem Johnson, against UNC, gets hurt because he’s on the punt coverage team. He was away from the play and turned his ankle. So we have to put in a walk-on for the rest of the game and the next week because there isn’t anyone else. The backup did a good job, but that’s a horrible recipe.

    Recruiting classes in football do not exist in a vacuum. It’s critical to put together three or four classes in a row to have success. We had a VERY good class last year (better than the ratings would imply). This year’s class is DEEP (and better than the ratings would imply). Two years in a row, we’ve brought in an entire team. We aren’t just stacking up at one position.

  22. Classof89 02/11/2009 at 10:04 AM #

    I too have complete confidence in TOB and think the attempts to compare to Lowe are laughable. But I do think BSIE has a good point–we CANNOT year in and year out be out-recruited in NC the way we were this year. Every period of sustained success in NC State history has been built on the back of some really good players from North Carolina.

    Unless you enjoyed the State/UNC basketball game this season, you DON’T want us playing UNC teams in football that are quicker, stronger, and more athletic at every position. I saw plenty of those games in the early Dick Crum (seven straight UNC wins ’79-’85) and late Mack Brown (seven straight wins from ’93-’99) eras at UNC, and I don’t want to go back there…

  23. Alpha Wolf 02/11/2009 at 10:07 AM #

    ^ I don’t buy the idea that UNC is quicker, stronger, and more athletic at every position. You may want to review the game film from last year for more detail.

    Also, The Wiz of Odds, sums it up perfectly, VaWolf style:

    Recruiting Rankings Don’t Translate Into Wins

  24. waxhaw 02/11/2009 at 10:16 AM #

    I’m not hung up on stars but we are fooling ourselves if we think UNC-CH will not be an ACC contender with classes like the one they just signed.

    I know the arguments:

    1) Butch won’t stay
    2) Butch doesn’t know X’s and O’s
    3) 3 and 4 stars are hard to guage
    4) character counts
    5) this is only one class

    All of those are valid arguments and I agree with them. However, if those arguments turn out to be false, enough of those 4 stars will pan out that they will be a very good team.

    Of course, I think we are going to be very good as well.

    In an ideal world, they will be good and we will still beat them 41-10.

  25. packplantpath 02/11/2009 at 10:25 AM #

    I really wonder if the argument is less “they won’t stay” and more “they won’t qualify”, but I admit, I follow recruiting only as much as SFN posts about it.

1 2 3

Leave a Reply