Amid woes, comparing behaviors that feed NC State’s failures become more clear

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Here’s an article that you just can’t ignore – Amid woes, U.Va. AD needs to act

Before we get going here… please allow me to remind you that the University of Virginia has one of the best overall Athletics programs in the entire country. It isn’t like they struggle as a department nor as a functional organization.

They have clear vision and road maps to help them achieve their goals. At the beginning of this decade the University of Virginia spent significant time and money producing a detailed strategic plan that included goals for performance and championships for their Athletics Department. Not only did they build a 57 page strategic plan, they had the gumption to post it to various University websites and share it with their stakeholders. (Link)

This organizational professionalism has helped lead the Cavaliers department to consistent top twenty finishes in the the annual Directors Cup competition.

As evidenced by the graphs below (built before athletics competition of this academic year), Virginia has clearly enjoyed a more successful overall Athletics program than NC State in recent years. The graphs compare ACC winning percentages and conference finishes of ACC institutions during Lee Fowler’s tenure as AD for the 21 ACC sports in which NC State competes. The stats do not include some sports where Virginia is traditionally strong but where State does not have a program (lacrosse, field hockey, rowing) or non-ACC sports.

Average ACC Ranking(for the 21 ACC sports in which NC State competes)
1. North Carolina – 3.38
2. Florida St – 3.74
3. Virginia – 4.91
4. Georgia Tech – 5.47
5. Clemson – 5.67
6. Duke – 5.75
7. NC State – 6.52
8. Wake Forest – 6.65
9. Virginia Tech – 6.85
10. Maryland – 7.57
11. Miami – 7.82
12. Boston College – 9.00

acc-avg-ranking.JPG

ACC Championships (for the 21 ACC sports in which NC State competes)
1. North Carolina – 36
2. Duke – 29
3. Florida St – 24
4. Virginia – 19
5. NC State – 14
6. Georgia Tech – 13
7. Clemson – 11
8. Virginia Tech – 9
9. Maryland – 8
10. Miami – 5
11. Wake Forest – 3
12. Boston College – 1

acc-titles.JPG

ACC Championship Sports (for the 21 ACC sports in which NC State competes)
1. North Carolina – 15
2. Duke – 10
3. Florida St – 9
4. Clemson – 7
t5. Georgia Tech – 6
t5. Maryland – 6
t5. Virginia – 6
8. Virginia Tech – 5
9. NC State – 4
t10. Miami – 3
t10. Wake Forest – 3
12. Boston College – 1

acc-title-sports.JPG

Honest to God…I don’t even know where to start. This conversation can go in a million directions.

(1) We could discuss the empathetic, fan-friendly perspective of an Athletics Director who publicly prioritizes winning and who doesn’t criticize his own fans.

“You have made significant investments in our program and I recognize that you expect results,” Littlepage told donors via e-mail. “As the Athletics Director I expect results as well. I realize that many fans are frustrated and I want to make sure you know that I am frustrated as well. … Improvements in football and men’s basketball are a priority.”

(2) We could discuss the rest of the world’s (accurately) negative perspective of NC State’s Athletics Department.

Among the ACC’s 12 schools, name one with deeper troubles in its money-making sports – Boston College, Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia Tech and Wake Forest clearly are superior.

The only remotely comparable straits are at North Carolina State, where Tom O’Brien’s football program is slowly progressing from the mess he inherited from Chuck Amato, while Sidney Lowe’s basketball program is declining.

But even the Wolfpack is ahead of the last-place Cavaliers this basketball season. Wednesday marked the fourth time since the New Year that Virginia has trailed by at least 20 points during the first half, the third at home.

Ahh yes. “Even the Wolfpack”

(3) We could discuss the obvious contrast to NC State’s leadership where Virginia is having this crisis-conversation amid their woes because The last academic year in which Virginia’s football and men’s basketball teams were sub-.500 was 1976-77.

ONE YEAR! ONE YEAR in the last 33 years where both revenue-generating sports were below .500. At friggin Virginia. How many years just under the leadership of NC State’s current administration has that been the case in Raleigh (despite our premiere new ‘fuhcilities’ (that have been finished before Virginia’s upgrades).

(4) Or…we could discuss how the Virginia media is actually writing stories calling for improvement to the current situation. Could you imagine? Could you imagine if anyone in our local media FINALLY ignored their personal relationships with Lee Fowler and their fear of the wrath of Annabelle Vaughn Myers? Could you imagine if anyone actually placed their journalistic integrity and responsibilities ahead of their the potential political fallout and the negative impact to ‘access’ within the NC State Athletics program and started judging the NC State athletics program in the media?

We can imagine. They may become as ‘popular’ in west Raleigh as SFN!

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95 Responses to Amid woes, comparing behaviors that feed NC State’s failures become more clear

  1. BSIE80 02/06/2009 at 11:48 PM #

    U can sell your tickets if u want to. Most people just don’t go, or they give them away.

    If u have seats and u want to sell them, plan in advance, and sell them.

  2. Astral Rain 02/07/2009 at 12:39 AM #

    The only way they’ll get the message, is if they lose money, or the uni gets publicly embarassed.

    I still think the brown Fowlup bags would send a message

  3. Daily Update 02/07/2009 at 7:44 AM #

    Choppack: GT made the Final Four in the last five years.

    The AD at Xavier would be a perfect fit though I doubt he would leave. He has a working relationship with one of the best young coaches in the game(S. Miller) and he spent time in the Naval Academy athletic department as an administrator.

    Mike Bobinski:

    http://goxavier.cstv.com/genrel/bobinski_mike00.html

  4. whitefang 02/07/2009 at 8:04 AM #

    BSIE80, UVa system is not LTR but they did just start a new system. I have had season tickets there for 5 years since my kids decided to abandon NC colleges. Last year they went with a points system based on donation amounts and number of years. That pissed a lot of old seat holders off because before once you had seats you had them basically for life no matter what you gave.

  5. Rick 02/07/2009 at 8:31 AM #

    “What I really hate about what has happened to NC State in the LTR era (and I didn’t see it coming) is that it means that winning and making money no longer go together.”

    The only way to have success to have leadership that wants it. That sets goals for the coaches and holds them to it. A successful business is performance based. NCAA athletics is not. You see the results.

  6. blpack 02/07/2009 at 8:59 AM #

    What a long debate about the AD and his department. Clearly something needs to be done. Too many Wolfpackers I know have lost hope. They want us to do well, but know we are generally bad in most sports. Basketball has been down a long time. When the opportunity came 3 years ago to make a change, do you think people wanted to work for ‘coach’ Fowler? Not a chance. I don’t blame them. We need a new culture. We can be in the black, maintain academic integrity and compete for championships. Write the BOT chair and express your concerns.

    Mr D McQueen Campbell,III
    1305 Cameron View Ct
    Raleigh, NC 27607

  7. BAC79 02/07/2009 at 10:42 AM #

    TOB would make a great AD but we sure don’t want to lose him as a football coach.

    I am convinced his Marine Corp background is the main reason he runs a performance based organization. This is the main ingredient missing in our athletics and academics.

    I’ll never forget reading an article in the alumni magazine when Mary Anne Fox became chancellor. I was so excited when I finished reading it I wanted to jump up and down and cheer. What a refreshing thought, here is a chancellor who wants to be number one in academics and sports. And guess what, she believed as I do, that you can have your cake and eat it too. All it takes is a vision, a plan, and hard work.

    Unfortunately, our current BOT and chancellor act like “…those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” (Theodore Roosevelt). Back to the Marine Corp theme, and no I was never a Marine. One of the lines from the Marine Corp Hymn is from the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli. The Tripoli line comes from a historical march of eight United States Marines and a mercenary army over 600 miles of Libyan desert to capture the port of Derna. This led to the defeat of the Barbary pirates who were capturing U.S. seamen from merchant ships and forcing them into slavery.

    We can’t even get LF to leave his Lake Gaston estate to take care of business.

    Send a message, let it be a strong one and let the leaders know we aren’t happy and we won’t take it any more.

  8. WolftownVA81 02/07/2009 at 10:55 AM #

    Here’s a link to a related article in the local Charlottesville paper this morning. It’s a very fair assessment of UVA’s basketball program and what may be next for the AD.

    http://www.dailyprogress.com/cdp/sports/columnists/ratcliffe_on/article/leitao_littlepage_search_for_answers/35440/

  9. WolftownVA81 02/07/2009 at 11:02 AM #

    Not sure why my comment with a link to the Daily Progress Paper is awaiting moderation but I forgot to add –
    No$ = Change.
    Also, blpack, thanks for the BOT name and address. I will be writing.

  10. Noah 02/07/2009 at 11:15 AM #

    Well Noah, I guess when it became totally apparent that what NC State’s administration THOUGHT it had been oh so noble in doing for the past decade or so, and their thinking that it actually meant something to the REAL college BB coaches out there in the REAL world, and when they found out that it didn’t, and that they weren’t even seriously on any of the big time college BB coach’s radar screens, and that NO ONE was interested in their holier than thou, middle of the road crapola, then they just gave up the search and did what was easiest. They ended the search as quickly as possible, no more getting turned down by this one and that one, and they just got it over with.

    I have no idea what you are talking about. But NONE of those things happened.

    I’m…well…I’m rather stunned that you HONESTLY believe that a Big South coach (for instance) or a MEAC coach would honestly turn down the opportunity to coach in the ACC AND turn down a 300-500 percent pay raise.

    That is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read in my life.

    This job was offered to about five people. There were three good offers and two rather crappy, “Hey, ya want it?” offers.

    Everyone who came out and said, “I have no interest in the NC State job” was NEVER OFFERED THE JOB. They were never contacted about the job. Their agents were never called. There was never any permission asked for or received to talk to them. There were absolutely no overtures whatsoever.

    But, hey…if it helps you rationalize keeping “Sid,” go crazy.

  11. wufpup76 02/07/2009 at 11:37 AM #

    “Everyone who came out and said, “I have no interest in the NC State job” was NEVER OFFERED THE JOB. They were never contacted about the job. Their agents were never called. There was never any permission asked for or received to talk to them. There were absolutely no overtures whatsoever.”

    ^That, to me, was the biggest punch in the gut from the coaching search … The University (AD, search “committee”) did nothing to protect whatever dignity or reputation (such as it was) it had from comments like that

    I know you can’t stop the media from asking those they may consider possible targets, and you can’t stop people from commenting on the situation (even people who were never even asked saying they had no interest) … but they way it was handled and the job was just dangled out there for everyone to beat up on if they so chose … just sad

    I know there were plenty of coaches sending in their resumes / expressing interest, but the only thing you hear about and remember are the heart stomping denials

  12. old13 02/07/2009 at 12:40 PM #

    So I guess that nobody knows if there is a significant number of NCSU alumni/fans who care where Wolfpack athletics is now. Maybe it is just 50 guys on the internet!

  13. levelsixtyfour 02/07/2009 at 12:42 PM #

    Lunatics.

  14. BAC79 02/07/2009 at 1:19 PM #

    Here is draft number 1 of a letter I intend to send to Mr. McQueen.

    Mr. D McQueen Campbell, III
    1305 Cameron View Ct
    Raleigh, NC 27607

    Dear Mr. McQueen:

    I am a 1979 graduate of North Carolina State University.

    Over the last twenty years, I have become increasingly concerned with our Universities willingness to be subservient to our sister University, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

    Why do I say this? It is simple really, a matter of perception if you will. In academics, we have allowed UNC at Chapel Hill to claim their standards of accepting students are higher and more rigorous than our own. I have two daughters. My oldest graduated from UNC Chapel Hill in 2007. My youngest daughter is a freshman at UNC Chapel Hill.

    If you ask both of them why they went there, they both would give you the same answer. We worked very hard in High School and wanted to be accepted by the best school in the state. Right or wrong, the perception amongst high school students is that you must have a higher SAT score and higher class rank to be accepted by the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill than is required by North Carolina State University.

    Then look at athletics at both schools. North Carolina State University has not won an ACC championship in basketball or football in over twenty years. My oldest daughter was a student at UNC when they won a national championship in basketball. My youngest daughter has been a student at UNC while they have been ranked number one in basketball. We have not been ranked number one in basketball since 1985.

    We have allowed ourselves to be second best in the state in academics and athletics. This is unacceptable. We can certainly do better and the wolf pack nation deserves and expects better.

    The following information is from the Web Page of our University.

    “With more than 31,000 students and nearly 8,000 faculty and staff, North Carolina State University is a comprehensive university known for its leadership in education and research, and globally recognized for its science, technology, engineering and mathematics leadership.
    NC State students, faculty and staff are focused. As one of the leading land-grant institutions in the nation, NC State is committed to playing an active and vital role in improving the quality of life for the citizens of North Carolina, the nation and the world.
    How? Researchers across the university and Centennial Campus are deeply engaged in making new, application-driven discoveries. As a major research university, NC State has the people —from undergraduate and graduate students to faculty — and the responsibility to advance knowledge, transfer technology, and discover and develop innovations that solve some of the world’s most pressing problems.
    And we are. NC State’s research expenditures are approaching more than $325 million annually, with almost 70 percent of faculty engaged in sponsored research and 2,500 graduate students supported by research grants. NC State is ranked third among all public universities (without medical schools) in industry-sponsored research expenditures.”
    These are certainly lofty goals and aspirations. So, what am I asking you to do? I would like to ask the chancellor and the Board of Trustees to construct a long-range strategic plan to become number one in academics and athletics. A good place to start would be for the Board to make the following or a similar announcement:
    North Carolina State University is a land grant institution with a rich history of academic and athletic excellence. We are determined to be the number one University in this state in education, research, and athletics. To that end we have prepared a long-range strategic plan to attain that lofty goal. We intend to roll up our sleeves and go to work to make this happen. We will involve the administration, current students and staff and our alumni to reach this goal. Until this goal is attained and in the immortal words of one of our former great coaches Jimmy Valvano, we will never quit and we will never ever give up.
    Please share this letter with the Board of Trustees.
    I trust that with careful thought, consideration, and hard work, North Carolina State University can become the premiere University in the state of North Carolina and in the Southeastern United States.
    Thank you for your time and consideration.

  15. old13 02/07/2009 at 1:53 PM #

    ^ That’s great. Now we just need several hundred (maybe thousand) more to be sent!

  16. blpack 02/07/2009 at 2:27 PM #

    ^ BAC79,
    Sounds great! We just need more of those.

  17. Wolfpack_1995 02/07/2009 at 4:10 PM #

    Money will do the talking. The UNC system has set up NC State to be a profit based organization. That is it though. No requirements on WINNING.

    Profit is captured by LTRs, RBC revenue, and ACC profit sharing.

    As long as the three sources above continue to bring in revenue NOTHING will probably change.

    We as fans can influence the LTR revenue but the other two are cash cows for the university allowing Fowler to relax at Lake Gaston and Oblinger to chase after research money.

    Thank God TOB does believe in a performance based operation. Imagine if we were stuck with a Sendek type clone whose only focus was to collect the money and stay off of NCAA probation.

    How long with the LTR money continue to flow in. IT make us fans look like BLIND Followers.

  18. chuck 02/07/2009 at 6:39 PM #

    BAC: “Right or wrong, the perception amongst high school students is that you must have a higher SAT score and higher class rank to be accepted by the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill than is required by North Carolina State University.”

    Uh, I think the answer is “right.” At least when I graduated from high school (1997), and for people not entering special programs (eg, design school).

  19. turfpack 02/07/2009 at 10:07 PM #

    As a graduate of State,with my wife a graduate of UNX I have heard people say that “it is hard to get in UNX but easier to get out and easier to get in State but harder to get out”.I had heard this saying for many years and from several people graduates of both universities.
    Just wonder if anyone else had heard this or thought it was true?
    My wife’s family (UNX fan’s) don’t understand why State has stayed so below average for years-I told them it was leadership from the Admin.and just scared of success due to it’s past 20yrs of self imposed restrictions-but mainly idotic leadership.
    I also think alot of pack fans out there have become so numb to athletics at NCSTATE mainly because it’s so painful to follow during the years.(Hopefully football is changing)
    IF THEY WOULD CHANGE IT-(build winners in the major sports) THEY WILL COME………….and PACK THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. Greywolf 02/08/2009 at 4:12 PM #

    BAC79

    A few suggestions for your letter.

    “Dear Mr. McQueen:” You might want to address your letter Dear McQueen, if you have a first name relationship or Mr. Campbell if not.

    “Over the last twenty years, I have become increasingly concerned with our Universities willingness to be subservient to our sister University, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.”

    I suggest that the adjective, subservient, is not quite the word form you are looking for here. Perhaps our willingness to have a subservient relationship with our sister university… would be a more fitting way to put it.

    “We can certainly do better and the wolf pack nation deserves and expects better.”

    I think you will find that the Wolfpack of NCSU is one word and is usually capitalized by State fans.

    Otherwise, good letter and good place to take your complaint.

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