Wiederer: ‘State Doesn’t Need Wall’

09-10 Basketball Basketball Recruiting General101

Dan Wiederer of the Fayetteville Observer has an intriguing must-read column regarding the latest GlaxoSmithKline Holiday Invitational. Even if you are not interested in prep sports or college recruiting, take the time to read Dan’s impressions of incoming State and UNC prospects.   Regarding Lorenzo Brown and John Wall:

“Sure, it’d be nice to snag the Class of 2009’s crown jewel. But the Wolfpack already has its game-changing point guard on the way in Lorenzo Brown, a senior at Centennial High School in Georgia.

“I never have to worry about Lorenzo, but I challenge him,” said Centennial coach Allen Whiteheart. “I’ve coached him in countless big games and he has always brought his A-game every time a big game comes. It started from the very beginning. He had the first triple-double in our school’s history as a freshman. He’s just a big-game player and a phenomenal teammate.”

That’s an interesting point of view.  One alternative take might be for Wall to have his year in a Wolfpack uniform with Brown as his understudy, which leaves one to wonder where Farnold Degand, the incumbent starter might fit in.  Or whether there could be another chemistry problem on the horizon.

A bonus impression Wiederer gives is his take on John Wall’s current team-mate, C.J. Leslie:

Forget J.J. Hickson. C.J. Leslie may wind up being the most dynamic post recruit of the Sidney Lowe era.

Granted that Hickson was only in a Wolfpack uniform for one season, but that’s a pretty lofty comparison.  Considering that this may be Brandon Costner’s final year, a ready-to-go Leslie might be a must, not a luxury.

09-10 Basketball Basketball Recruiting General

101 Responses to Wiederer: ‘State Doesn’t Need Wall’

  1. Gene 01/06/2009 at 12:58 PM #

    “Lack of talent at PG is clearly our biggest problem.”

    Injuries and inexperience can be argued to be just as big a factor.

    On the bright side, rebounding seems to have improved over last year.

  2. happypackdad 01/06/2009 at 1:11 PM #

    “think you’ll see a huge difference in both Degand and Mays between now and late February. Degand is coming back from a serious injury, and still isn’t there yet, and Mays is a Freshman. He’s coming around, and will improve alot in the coming month. He’s got alot of upside, and seems to run the offense well. He doesn’t blow by you, but neither did Corch and/or Sidney. He CAN be a very good, effective PG. That being said, Brown is a BIG recruit, and coupling him with Wall would be HUGE.”

    +1

  3. Noah 01/06/2009 at 1:23 PM #

    In another thread, you said it was allocation of scholarships to non ACC caliber players…so, what’s problem 1A now?

    Actually, in another thread, I said that the allocation of scholarships was the first symptom. The underlying cause is the non-presence of an actual coach.

    The ACC is not a place for apprenticeships. You need to have mastered your craft before arriving. Yes, you learn things every day…but the big stuff, you need to have a good grasp on it ahead of time.

    I read an interview with Carl Franks a few years ago where he was extremely candid about his failures at Dook. He said that every year, he’d think he would finally have a grip on what it was that he was doing and some new massive thing would pop up. He said that it was a big reality check in his failures not only as a head coach, but his previous failures as an assistant coach. He said that he called Steve Spurrier after he’d been fired and apologized to him for wasting so much of his time when he had been an assistant.

    That’s what this feels like with Lowe. The first year, we run into issues because he’s giving scholarships to the wrong people. Then in year two, he doesn’t know how to deal with conflicts between teammates. Now, we’re in year three and he is just NOW getting around to addressing the point guard problem.

    I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt on a LOT of stuff. I’m not bringing up anything about Quinton Jackson. I’m not dissecting the little stuff that goes on in the game (the stories about the TO with 10 seconds left in the Florida game, for instance). I’m not bringing up Lowe’s tendency to blame the players instead of himself after losses.

    It’s the great big huge stuff that terrifies me.

    I watched “Ratatouille” with my nephew over Christmas. There’s a scene where they need to show how clueless the protaganist is in the kitchen. So they have him freak out about how he doesn’t know what to put in a soup. He says, “Rosemary…that’s a spice, right?” and the rat sort of looks at him sideways and nods slowly. If you don’t know what rosemary is, chances are pretty good that cooking isn’t really your thing.

    That’s how I feel about Lowe. We’re not debating the nuances of how he does his job. He’s having to be told, “This is a ball. It goes in the hoop and counts for two points.”

  4. Noah 01/06/2009 at 1:24 PM #

    Noah,
    I hear your comments, but we really have little choice but to wait at this point and hope this infusion of talent coupled with a more experienced coach will overcome this quagimire we find ourselves in as fans.

    That’s the scary part. It almost sounds like, “Eventually, humanity will be extinct. But even the cold, sweet release of death isn’t where it ends. In a few billion years, matter will cease to exist. Entropy will overtake everything and all existence will be replaced with a cool, gray light.”

    Oh. Good.

  5. Alpha Wolf 01/06/2009 at 1:49 PM #

    Once again, Noah — what’s a better option? Do you think NCSU would be able to lure a top coach, especially when the rap on this school is that we are unreasonable fans who dare think we can compete with the Blue Bloods?

  6. McPete 01/06/2009 at 1:54 PM #

    Noah,
    why don’t you feel Lowe can improve as a coach and program builder. Wasn’t Sendek’s 1st 5 years a disaster, with like one NIT appearance? Didn’t he figure it out? Why can’t Lowe? The guy never coached in college. The man was around professionals all his life who showed up for work because it’s their career. You think he had similar challenges in the NBA as he does now, babysitting a bunch of teenagers who all think their sh*t doesn’t stink and they’ll be rich and famous? He may or may not figure it out, but he should be given a decent amount of time to do so.

    I don’t know how this years’ team will finish, but they play harder/better than last years’ team by a long way.

  7. thebigwood 01/06/2009 at 2:08 PM #

    I agree…Noah, you seem like a bright guy, can’t you just let it go for a thread or two?

  8. anti-smurf 01/06/2009 at 2:20 PM #

    What are they growing and smoking down there. Has this guy seen us play? We need Wall desperately! Brown should be a 2-guard. It could be the rebirth of Sid and Whit (for 1 year at least).

    Saying State doesn’t need Wall is like saying I don’t need to breath!

  9. Noah 01/06/2009 at 2:22 PM #

    I agree…Noah, you seem like a bright guy, can’t you just let it go for a thread or two?

    Where am I? What is this site?

    Are you incapable of just glossing over my posts? I certainly don’t read certain posters because I already know I’m going to disagree with them.

  10. Noah 01/06/2009 at 2:25 PM #

    Once again, Noah — what’s a better option? Do you think NCSU would be able to lure a top coach, especially when the rap on this school is that we are unreasonable fans who dare think we can compete with the Blue Bloods?

    Step One is to get rid of Lee Fowler. There is NO point in making a change if the same idiot is going to be asked to do something he clearly doesn’t know how to do.

    After that, YES, I think NC State can hire a great coach. I would agree that the odds are overwhelmingly against finding a coach who is the equivalent of K or Williams. Those are two of the greatest coaches of all-time. Mathmatically speaking, the odds of finding such a coach (let alone hiring him) are against against you.

    But I do believe that a competent search would reveal a strong group of candidates.

    However, again…if Fowler is leading the search, there’s no point in firing Lowe. Chemotherapy only makes sense if you know when to STOP.

  11. Gene 01/06/2009 at 2:31 PM #

    “The ACC is not a place for apprenticeships. ”

    Depends how long the apprenticeship lasts. The two most successful coaches in ACC history – Dean Smith and Mike K. – apprenticed in the ACC, but it took them less than 10 years to make it to the Final Four.

    Pete Guillen had a stellar coaching resume, before coming to the ACC, but he didn’t cut it at Virginia.

    There’s no sure fire way to figure out how to select a successful coach in the ACC.

    “It’s the great big huge stuff that terrifies me. ”

    How much of it is the assisstants he hired? Towe, Harris and Strickland have a lot of college coaching experience. I figured they could’ve help guide him on issues like scholarship allocation. Why do you think they aren’t helping smooth over Lowe’s transition to college?

  12. thebigwood 01/06/2009 at 2:35 PM #

    “Where am I? What is this site?

    Are you incapable of just glossing over my posts? I certainly don’t read certain posters because I already know I’m going to disagree with them.”

    I guess what I am saying is that it would be nice if this thread didn’t devolve into you beating your drum about how much you don’t like Lowe…but you are right, I can just gloss it over.

  13. sholtzma 01/06/2009 at 2:41 PM #

    [QUOTE}That’s how I feel about Lowe. We’re not debating the nuances of how he does his job. He’s having to be told, “This is a ball. It goes in the hoop and counts for two points.”{QUOTE]

    Noah, I share some of your concerns, though at this point I am not quite as concerned about Sid as you are. Then again, I gave HWSNBN quite a long leash too, for awhile….

    But your quoted sentences above go a bit too far, in my opinion. And yes, you are permitted some hyperbole, but others may take you seriously.

    What fundamental aspects of the game does Sid not know? As you point out, forget about nuances. Now, whether he can successfully convey the game to his recruits is another matter. But let’s consider some visible improvements in fundamentals:

    I am pleased with our improvement in rebounding this year, which was a serious problem under HWSNBN and in Sid’s first two years. I also don’t see nearly the number of quick 3s being shot or idiotic shots being taken; that too is an improvement from both HWSNBN and Sid’s first two years. Passing seems to be improving. Patience seems to be improving. The players willingness to consistently follow the gameplan seems to be improving, albeit with fits and starts. Understanding of roles seems to be improving, quite a change from the “interchangeable parts” philosophy of the past.

    It was my view that the program was on a fundamentally wrong track (in both senses of the word “fundamental”) under the previous regime. I figured that the entire basketball culture at State needed to change, not merely getting more talent or a PG. I didn’t and don’t expect that will change in a year or two. Indeed, TOB, who faced something of the same need to change the entire culture of the football team, has not fully succeeded in two years. Take away Russell, and the football team would have had a very tough year this year. Give Sid a good PG (comparable to a good QB) and I think we would see a noticeably better team.

    So far, in year three, Sid seems to be making progress getting players prepared in the fundamentals. I’ll be satisfied with the “culture” of the team improving over this year. I’ll expect to see quite a noticeable improvement in results next year with Brown, Wood, an older Mays, and anyone else we bring in to help with the backcourt.

    What say you to these thoughts?

  14. Noah 01/06/2009 at 2:42 PM #

    How much of it is the assisstants he hired? Towe, Harris and Strickland have a lot of college coaching experience. I figured they could’ve help guide him on issues like scholarship allocation. Why do you think they aren’t helping smooth over Lowe’s transition to college?

    Believe it or not, I haven’t even gotten to the assistant-level type decisions. I heard bad things about two of the three of those guys. I honestly don’t know whether it’s true or not, but those stories were out there.

    But right now, that’s further down the list. If this is a triage case, I’m still working on the ruptured arteries and the missing legs. The stuff your talking about is a bowel obstruction…it’s important, but we can get to it later.

  15. primacyone 01/06/2009 at 2:56 PM #

    We have made sigificant and major progress year over year, and that is even without our best player from last year. If Mays and Degand had had a little more experience or if we had hit 4 more free throws, we would be undeafted right now.

    Lo Brown can play the point as well as he can play the 2 spot. He is a solid FLOOR LEADER and a dribble driver/playmaker. It will be like having two very good 2 spots on the floor with one as good a point guard as a 2 guard – SEE DUKE DEVILS (Noland Smith/Jon Scheyer) for prime example of exactly what it will look like.

  16. Alpha Wolf 01/06/2009 at 2:58 PM #

    After that, YES, I think NC State can hire a great coach. I would agree that the odds are overwhelmingly against finding a coach who is the equivalent of K or Williams. Those are two of the greatest coaches of all-time. Mathmatically speaking, the odds of finding such a coach (let alone hiring him) are against against you.

    But I do believe that a competent search would reveal a strong group of candidates.

    That sounds like you are saying State can get an up-and-comer rather than a big name like the ones that we hunted so hard for last time around.

  17. Noah 01/06/2009 at 3:10 PM #

    That sounds like you are saying State can get an up-and-comer rather than a big name like the ones that we hunted so hard for last time around.

    John Beilein is not an up-and-comer. We could have had him rather easily. I’m not interested in anyone’s opinions on his schemes.

    Mike Montgomery is not an up-and-comer. Had Fowler been willing to wait until his contract situation with the Warriors was resolved, he would have come here.

    Larry Brown is not an up-and-comer.

    Hiring and firing coaches is part an athletic director’s job, yes? If so, I would submit that Lee Fowler has failed spectacularly in this field. And yet, even an incompent boob like Fowler was able to get to the brink of landing Barnes and Calipari…two coaches who were in infinitely better situations and still came close to coming here.

    A good AD armed with a similar financial package would never have to resign himself to the Chris Lowery’s or the Gregg Marshall’s of the world. He certainly would never have to crawl on his belly after the Steve Lavin’s of the world. Seriously, if the best you can do is run around chasing Steve Lavin…you aren’t running a coaching search. That’s like going to a single’s bar with a bottle of vodka and some Rohypnol and claiming you’re looking for a wife.

  18. primacyone 01/06/2009 at 3:16 PM #

    ^ Different Thread

    If you don’t like it 3 years from now, then fire Fowler, then Lowe, and then hire Billy Gilepsi. He should be availble then, but if you can’t make it work at Kentucky . . . .

    John Belien will NEVER win a National Championship
    For the billinth time, Mike Montgomery would never come here for vaild reason on his end, nothing bad on our end.
    Larry Brown – PLEASE

  19. VaWolf82 01/06/2009 at 3:19 PM #

    That sounds like you are saying State can get an up-and-comer rather than a big name like the ones that we hunted so hard for last time around.

    Let’s move into the theoretical where:
    – State is looking for a coach for any sport
    – Coach Fowler is not involved in the search

    A “strong group of candidates” would likely include both up and comers as well as established coaches…as long as those coaches can be reasonably sure that their name won’t come out prematurely in the process. This is the great advantage of using an established third-party in the coaching search. It can usually be done quickly, quietly, and with no hurt feelings or embarassing headlines.

    My guess is that it would take several more years before anyone considers looking for a new BB coach for State. I’ve given up hope that Fowler will find a new job….I’m left with hoping he retires quickly….and yes I’m choosing to ignore his most recent contract extension.

  20. BJD95 01/06/2009 at 3:21 PM #

    There’s really not much substantive difference between what Noah says and what the “Lowe moderates” like myself think (though stylistically very different).

    The main point is that it does NO GOOD to fire Sid when Fowler is in place. A corrolary (which Noah may or may not agree with) is that it’s unfair to expect the new AD to instantly evaluate the hoops program and fire the coach. Thus, you have to expect at least a 4th season for Sid, for the new AD to evaluate before a firing is possible.

    I just don’t see any reason to pre-judge what that review would reveal. Perhaps Sid is learning faster thab expected, and can catch up (this is much easier in hoops, where 1 or 2 recruiting classes can right the ship). Perhaps not. But if you hire a competent AD, Sid’s situation will take care of itself.

    It would be an unmitigated disaster if we fired Sid after Year Three. Think of this year’s Indiana team, but with no Tom Crean.

  21. VaWolf82 01/06/2009 at 3:22 PM #

    Seriously, if the best you can do is run around chasing Steve Lavin…you aren’t running a coaching search.

    No, you’re running a comedy show for the enjoyment of Greg Doyell and the other idiots in sports journalism. The fact that Fowler pursued Lavin is absolute proof that he is unqualified for the job of AD.

  22. Noah 01/06/2009 at 3:25 PM #

    Primacyone is changing the argument completely around. I don’t care what your opinion on Beilein is. He’s not an up-and-comer. And yes, Mike Montgomery would have come here.

  23. Wolf74 01/06/2009 at 3:27 PM #

    Noah, from reading all your posts on this page, I believe you have hit it spot on! I have heard and observed the same things. Now my hope is that Coach Lowe can lure enough talent to Raleigh so that the style of offense and defense he has installed can work in spite of his limited college experience.

    I rememeber watching a game on TV and the announcer asked John Wooden who he thought would win? Coach Wooden answered, The team with the most talent. I used to subscribe to this one basketball magazine about 10 years ago. They published one issue that ranked the talent each school had recruited, based on high school rankings, over a 5 year and a 10 year period. UNC-Ch has #1 over both the 5 year and 10 year period. Duke was #2 over the same periods. Makes you wonder whether it is the coaching of the coach or the recruiting of the coach that makes them great.

    As for Fowler, I really hope we do not have to replace any additional coaches at NCSU during his term. I have total confidence that he could completely screw it up.

  24. BJD95 01/06/2009 at 3:28 PM #

    For the 100th time, yes Larry Brown WAS legitimately interested. What he said to our search committee is not for public consumption, but as evidence of his mindset, I can assure you he would have been immensely popular at NC State.

    And he is one of the 5 or 10 best college coaches in the last 50 years. I could give a shit where he went to college.

    Early on in the search, the only name I placed ahead of Brown was Calipari, and even then only because of the age difference. The thought of that opportinity slipping away still makes me cringe.

    The perfect situation was Larry Brown, with Sid as his protege and designated successor. Sid’s not stupid, he just wasn’t ready when hired. Three years with Brown would have sufficed, IMHO.

  25. primacyone 01/06/2009 at 3:29 PM #

    Sid may take care of the situation himself if you give the man a couple more years.

    Why does TOB get a never ending leash and Sid is raked over the coals for losing 3 games by 11 Points with marginal talent.

    You want to rake somebody over the coals. TOB should be blasted for putting Harrison Beck in as QB in the bowl game, not to metion leting him throw the ball. 2-6 to start and we are perfectly okay with that. 11-3 to start and the 3 are dang close and much improvement over the previous year, and we are up in arms.

    TOB – 2 years 2 losing records. Judgement is he’s doing a GREAT job.

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