Updated “State of the Program” Thoughts

08-09 Basketball General NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe162

wilee

OK, dark side – you win. Last night’s disastrous effort pushed me over the edge. Taking a cue from Sidney Lowe’s motivational techniques and substitution patterns, I will not order my thoughts logically and just throw crap against the wall to see what sticks:

– Sidney Lowe has clearly lost this team, for the second year in a row. That’s completely unacceptable, and could be a program destroyer.

– Sidney Lowe not only put a shell-shocked Javi Gonzalez into a tie game cold midway through the second half, but also did so without a secondary ballhandler on the court with him. Gee, who could have predicted three straight turnovers (though somehow the boxscore only lists two) in that situation? I was mildly surprised that no crazed fans charged the court to set themselves on fire in protest.

– Julius Mays kept State in the game during the second half, but don’t read too much into it. Against a more disciplined opponent, he won’t be able to run around for 30 seconds, then get an open lane or pull-up jumper. And he still finished the game with no assists.

– The “effort” lineup that worked against FSU for about 10 minutes in the second half will not be able to stand against better competition. Even against the Noles, it was weak defensively and on the glass.

– By the “consecutive ACC losses” measure, Sidney Lowe is now the losingest coach in NC State history (hat tip, SFN commenters)! That’s saying alot from an institution that once employed Les Robinson for six long years. Congratulations, Coach!

– I’ve said this many times privately, and nobody has ever contradicted it – the only staff member that seems to have any clue about “nuts and bolts” college coaching is #3 assistant Pete Strickland. That’s just pathetic.

– When Lowe was hired, I told numerous friends that the great thing was that “limbo hell” was over – Sid would likely be a smashing success, or an abject failure. Looks like I was right.

– Fellow Hindenburg program Georgia Tech comes to town on Saturday. One team has to win, the other starts worrying about a Bob Wade-like season. State would actually be lucky if the crowd is small – otherwise, the ESA will be full of very angry people.

– I watched last night’s game late on DVR (my wife and kids claimed the HDTV that was recording the game for that awful American Idol show). I sent an e-mail to fellow SFN bloggers with about 9:30 to go and State down 1, saying that even if State comes back to win, this was one of the most poorly coached games I had ever seen. I apologize for not being there live with you on the blog – misery loves company.

– Want to feel even worse? In bad economic times, I think it’s fair to assume that the purse strings of the big money donors are much tighter. I’m not sure the money is there to chase off Fowler and Lowe, much less to throw money at a decent coach for what looks like a very major rebuilding job. Thus, I don’t see any rational reason to have so much as a scintilla of hope.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

08-09 Basketball General NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe

162 Responses to Updated “State of the Program” Thoughts

  1. Justin Gainey 01/14/2009 at 11:41 AM #

    Wait until the ACC starts to run the tourney like the Big East does. Hell, then we will never go to a tournament. At least, for now, we get to go the ACC tourney.

  2. Wulfpack 01/14/2009 at 11:43 AM #

    “2. If its not happening anyway, shouldn’t we try our best to support the program and help it succeed?”

    That’s admirable, but it isn’t reality. Coming into the RBC for visiting teams is alot like taking a stroll through the library. See attendance figures — people aren’t going. And it ain’t going to get any better unless something drastic happens.

  3. Wulfpack 01/14/2009 at 11:44 AM #

    “Wait until the ACC starts to run the tourney like the Big East does.”

    The Big East made the change that everyone goes starting this year. And for the record, that conference is NASTY this year.

  4. Justin Gainey 01/14/2009 at 11:47 AM #

    So your saying there’s a chance! We still get to go to one tourney, probably the only one, unless they open that NIT 2 tournament.

  5. LRM 01/14/2009 at 11:49 AM #

    The Big East changed its format and now all 40 teams go to the tourney starting this season.

  6. Justin Gainey 01/14/2009 at 11:52 AM #

    LRM
    haha 40 teams. That is true, no wonder everyone says they have so many teams in the top 25. They have more to choose from.

  7. jbpackfan 01/14/2009 at 11:53 AM #

    Seemed like we had a pretty good crowd last night, but quiet. That building was pretty dead, as it usually is unless we’re playing Duke or UNC. Among the many things wrong with NC State, the lack of a home court advantage is one. I guess 20 years with 0 meaningful accomplishments would destroy any program. Think about what would have happened had Julius Hodge chosen Syracuse. Our tourney drought from the 90s on would most likely still be going strong. Depressing how irrelevant our bball program has been.

  8. Dan 01/14/2009 at 12:00 PM #

    So… can we fire Lee Fowler yet? Please?

  9. Par Shooter 01/14/2009 at 12:00 PM #

    Gene, I’m honestly not sure that we will ever have what we want in terms of a basketball program. I cannot close my eyes and imagine our team being where Wake is right now even though we were ahead of them in the standings a few short years ago. I guess it’s just conditioned response. Since my freshman year in 1989 we have more or less sucked in bball and its about all I know.

    But at some point there will improvement over the baseline. It would be impossible to regress forever. I just believe that we have quite a bit more chaos and turmoil between where we are now and an uptick.

  10. buttPACKer 01/14/2009 at 12:06 PM #

    i, too, feel we have much greater depths to plumb, before anything begins to look up.

  11. Wisc-Wolf 01/14/2009 at 12:06 PM #

    I believe the calls for Lowe’s head are premature. He has put together a very good recruiting class for next year and still has the potential to put together a great recruiting class. However, I agree that his insistence on playing Gonzalez is puzzling as is his substitution pattern. Don’t give up hope for this season yet. We have been competative in every loss and could have easily won at least three of them. I agree tonight was frustrating but lets at least wait until the end of the season before we start calling for jobs. Besides Fowler.

  12. sksr97 01/14/2009 at 12:12 PM #

    I would not go as far as to say that Coach Lowe has lost this team. I believe that what has happened is that before Fl St we lost 3 games in the last seconds because our point guard couldn’t “D UP” and then turns the ball over at the end of these games. What is happening is that older players especially non guards lose confidence in their teammates when they can’t close out the games. It is not them shutting down and not listening to the coach. It is not like their is overwhelming talent on this team. Help is on the way but geewiz guys we are not going to become an upper echelon team that quickly. It took Herb five years to come out of the cellar that Les left us in and when he got us to five straight NCAA’s we basically pushed him out of the door.
    By year five if we haven’t got this program going then we can without a doubt point the finger at the Coach, but he has very good players that he has recruited coming in and some decent guys that he brought in already. And if we just had a top notch point guard right now we would probably only have one lost!!!!
    For those that can remember, they were ready to put Coach K out of the door after three years and now…….

  13. McPete 01/14/2009 at 12:13 PM #

    http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/new-season-same-old-issues-for-pack

    giglio has weighed in. it’s a pretty good read.

  14. Wulfpack 01/14/2009 at 12:15 PM #

    Counting sure losses against WFU (2), UNC (2) and Duke (1), we are going to have to go undefeated against everyone else from here on out for a 9-7 record and NCAA Tourney birth. I’d say that’s about as likely to happen as it is that the Heels finish in last place by the end of the year, even though that’s where they currently are! (That’s about the only thing that is good today).

  15. PackMan97 01/14/2009 at 12:17 PM #

    ^ If you told me at the start of the season we’d be tied with UNC-CH in the ACC Standings after two games, I’d take it! Now, not so sure.

  16. McPete 01/14/2009 at 12:18 PM #

    “I believe the calls for Lowe’s head are premature. He has put together a very good recruiting class for next year and still has the potential to put together a great recruiting class”

    You must agree with Noah and say that Fowler MUST be the 1st to go here. He cannot be allowed to hire the cleaning crew much less a basketball coach.

    the thing that i keep harping on with the ’09 recruiting class is the lack of enough big men. we lost one early (hickson), presumably lose two this year (Ben and Brandon), and only bring one in (Howell). uhh, that’s not enough.

  17. 61Packer 01/14/2009 at 12:20 PM #

    From my seat last night, I observed the lower level to be mostly full, and the third level was pretty full except for the end zones. League officials need to see that even fans from losing programs like ours will flock to games when they’re ACC games (what was the point of expansion in the first place if we’re keeping the 16-game league schedule?). The student sections were full and were vocal until the 19-2 run at the end. Fans around me in the LTR seats remain outwardly optimistic, but body language and expressions say otherwise. Most of us remained until the final seconds; at least it’s not like Kenan or the Dean Dome. Yet.

    I think our team’s biggest problem is that the players aren’t being coached to play as a team but rather as individuals, which is exactly what you’d expect from an NBA coach. The NBA’s emphasis is on individual parts instead of team play, plus showmanship. Had Lowe been a winner in the NBA, maybe he would have been a winner here by now, but he wasn’t then and isn’t now. Puzzling substitition patterns, sloppy ball-handling, and a general lack of defensive intensity, especially in the backcourt and inside, leads me to believe that Wolfpack teams will go only as far as their talent can carry them.

    The thing that has bothered me worse than anything is the coaching staff’s tossing the players under the bus, so to speak. The players are just boys in their late teens and early 20s who’re usually trying to do their best. Any coaches who aren’t man enough to take the blame for poor play or a loss aren’t likely to be man enough to help the program by stepping aside and letting someone else do it.

    I joke on these posts about us going 0-16 like the Detroit Lions. I don’t really believe we’re that bad, but WE STILL HAVE MOST OF THE SAME PERSONNEL THAT STARTED THIS CURRENT 11-GAME ACC LOSING STREAK. WE DO HAVE A GOOD CHANCE TO FINISH NEAR OR AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ACC FOR THE THIRD STRAIGHT YEAR. WE ARE UNLIKELY TO CHALLENGE FOR AN ACC TITLE THAT WE HAVEN’T WON SINCE 1987. WE’RE NOT EVEN AN NIT LOCK AND IF WE DO GET THERE, IT’LL PROBABLY BE ON THE ROAD. WE ARE UNLIKELY TO GET THE BIG RECRUITS LIKE FAVORS WHO WILL END UP GOING TO OTHER TEAMS, WHICH HURTS US WHEN THEY’RE OTHER ACC TEAMS WE HAVE TO PLAY AGAINST. WE ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE LEVEL DUKE AND UNC HAVE ACHIEVED AND ARE IN FACT YEARS IF NOT DECADES AWAY FROM THAT, IF EVER. WAKE FOREST, OUR OTHER BIG FOUR RIVAL, HAS ALSO MOVED FAR BEYOND US IN ACCOMPLISHMENT AND EXPECTATIONS, DESPITE THE RECENT DEATH OF THEIR COACH.

    I really admire Sidney Lowe and Monte Towe for what they did for State basketball. I also admire my mom for raising us kids the way she did. But I don’t want her in charge of Wolfpack basketball any more than I want Lowe or Towe in charge of Wolfpack basketball.

    The barn continues to burn to the ground while everyone at NCSU runs around in circles, telling everyone else where to point the hoses. I just wish the media would quit hosing our fans and that our fans would quit hosing the players.

    The folks up high in the Wolfpack administrative offices don’t hear any of this noise, however, because we fans are too far below to be heard agove the constant jingle of case flow from LTR seats and Wolfpack Club dues. It’s going to take the sounds of a few hundred or even a few dozen Big Wolves’ wallets closing simultaneously to wake up the AD, BOT, or others from their Mt. Olympus perches.

    Until that happens, get used to the status quo.

  18. Justin Gainey 01/14/2009 at 12:20 PM #

    Don’t worry the Heels will get it together in time for when they play us. I am going to bet the ranch on the Heels and the over on both games.

  19. Gene 01/14/2009 at 12:26 PM #

    Par Shooter, I can’t imagine us being where Wake is, but Wake’s been there before in recent memory, when Tim Duncan played they were considered a top team. When Chris Paul played for them, they were a contender. Sort of like NCSU was, prior to the 1990’s, have a good team / player, then rebuild and become good again.

    Coach K never set the record for consecutive ACC losses, while starting out at Duke. He never went backwards. Year three was better than year two, year four was better than year three, etc.

    I don’t see Sidney Lowe’s basketball team PROGRESSING, which is why I have given up.

    “But at some point there will improvement over the baseline. It would be impossible to regress forever. ”

    I think Les’ teams set the baseline. Herb progressed, but we still cared and weren’t happy with not being the doormat of the ACC. Regarding not regressing forever, look at Duke football. Until the late 1960’s they were much better than NCSU’s football program. They have been regressing for 40 years, with a brief respite when Spurrier coached. We’ll be like them. Happy with not being the laughing stock of D-1 basketball.

    “I believe the calls for Lowe’s head are premature. ”

    Doesn’t matter who is coaching, we won’t get better. There is no NCSU brand anymore. Losing 11 ACC games in a row doesn’t do much to rebuild the NCSU brand.

    The fans don’t want an “up and comer” and I don’t see the appeal of proven winner to come to NCSU. There is no luster left, unlike Kentucky and Indiana, which have been to Final Fours in the past 10 years.

    We’ll take the “hit or miss” route with an “up and comer” and re-invent the wheel every few years, when the new hire doesn’t pan out.

  20. com state10 01/14/2009 at 12:32 PM #

    You guys that insist on using bolder and bolder language to make a point, is not what I thought this website was about.

    Comparisons to Duke Football? Saying they don’t deserve to put on the jersey? Serious ideas of boycotting a program to make a point?

    Talk about enlightening.

    I totally agree that you should not bury your head, and I totally respect dissenting opinions.

    I’d just rather talk about things that ACTUALLY have a chance of changing in the next 60 days, there is time in the postseason to talk about coaching changes. It is stupid to have the same debate over and over after every game.

  21. BassPacker 01/14/2009 at 12:38 PM #

    Attendance last nite was 17,900. The only empty seats was in the nosebleed corners. It was a quiet crowd for sure, with the only time it came alive was when Javi got subbed out. I felt like I was at a football game more than basketball with all the abusive yelling toward our team and coach. Not saying it was deserved or not.

    The only quick cure I see for this program is reduce the price of alcohol before the game in the ledge lounge, let everyone in so they are too buzzed to care by game time. Or remember.

  22. wufpup76 01/14/2009 at 12:38 PM #

    “Step #1 has got to be the removal of Fowler.”

    ^Add emphasis to that. There is no need of the folks “in charge” to even DISCUSS any type of change until Coach Fowler is gone.

    “Dissenting opinions are welcome. Everyone has a different breaking point. I’ve hit mine.”

    Totally w/ BJD here. I want the blind faith people to be right. I’ve tried to put a positive spin on most aspects of this season. Last night sitting in the stands and watching pure futiility on the court and watching nearly *all* of those in attendance hit the exits early was my cracking point though.

    Sidney Lowe would go a LONG way toward buying from me not only the rest of this season but also next season just by SAYING a few things and winning a couple of conference games

    Things Sidney Lowe maybe should say (or should have already said) but have close to nil chance of being heard unless someone reads this thread and makes him say these things:

    “We are struggling to find out who we are and what we are capable of. That starts at the top, with me. I, along with the rest of the staff need to do a better job helping these young men understand what it takes to not only play in the ACC, but to win a game in the ACC.”

    “I know and understand that people – our fans – people I care about are upset. What I am asking for is time. Ultimately the direction of the program and the results we are seeing are my responsibility. Our fans have put up with many frustrations and want to see some successful results. I feel confident that I can generate these results. Though we are off to a rocky start, I know we can and will do better. Please stay with me. Recruiting is going well and I’m going to work my a** off to get this turned around … blah blah blah”

    “Our guys are trying very hard and working their tails off. We’ve just got to find a way – all of us – to step it up a notch. It takes that and more in the ACC. I’m going to lead the way. It starts with me – I’m going to show these guys how dedicated I am to not only competing but winning in this league. Up to now our performance has not been up to par and the staff and I have to do a better job of instilling discipline and confidence in our players.”

    “We lost tonight, but I’m not going to run our players down for a change. I’m going to say the staff and I must do a much better job.”

    “We use these sub patterns because …”

    “We don’t use more zone with our extremely slow players – particularly against poorer shooting teams because …”

    ^Any amount of public accountability for this mess – and an 11 game conference losing streak is a mess – would go a long way toward putting Sidney Lowe back in my good graces. I’ll just say flatly that absolving yourself of blame when you’re in charge is not only not being a leader, it’s a surefire way to lose those who you are in charge of.

    Winning a freaking conference game would go a long way as well …

    I am still very open to Sidney Lowe being our basketball coach – but it is WAY PAST honest assessment time. I’m afraid that it’s just going to be a whole new crop of issues year after year with Sidney. Please prove me wrong coach. Please take some accountability and start leading these guys – not just “coaching” them. It is all on you, after all – and while it may very well be Lee Fowler’s fault for the mess you inherited it is entirely up to you know to lead us out of the forrest. Time to get crackin’.

  23. wolf pack 01/14/2009 at 12:40 PM #

    From reading the post, and the comments it seems as if most of us are in agreement on a new coach.
    To those that aren’t….realize that a coach’s job is to put his team in the best possible scenario to win each game. Each game is different..meaning there should be different “game plans” each game…
    This coach continually doesn’t put us in the best possible scenario to win games…look at his subbing patterns…it makes zero sense…
    -to the comment above about big men…college basketball is more about guards than big men….villanova never has great big men and they are always competitive….
    I hope that we can go out and get a coach that is established in college coaching, whether at a big school or at a small school…
    we need something fast though or this is going to be ugly for a long time…i have so much pride in ncsu..these situations make me so bitter

  24. Wolf Dog 01/14/2009 at 12:40 PM #

    Was in Raleigh last night and thought Coach Towe did a very good job answering the questions. One thing about the staff they are not running and hiding. They are open and available to the media and the critics. We are so weak at the point guard position they know, we know, the media knows, and every other teams knows. We are going to lose games. People talk chemistry but you can’t blame vetern players for busting their ass to get down court and constantly watching the ball go the other way on a turnover then getting frustrated and then the coaches getting frustrated cause they know the players are frustrated. Coaches would probalby love to just throw the ball to the freshman and let him grow, but do not want to kill his confidence either.

    I think the key to our success is having point guards that understand the game and can manage the game in conjuction with a coach that was a former point guard. Larry Brown is very similar probably why he likes Lowe and a big key to success in college B Ball is the guard play. If Lowe does not find that combination in the next couple of years, we will have a new coach. If he does find that combination, then I think he and our program has a chance to be everything we hoped it would be.

    One thing most in the game agree on, Lowe has proven he can recruit. Prospects and parents like him. Harris is a good recruiter also, but even Lowe has proven he can go into homes Harris and Sendek could never get into.

  25. redfred2 01/14/2009 at 12:45 PM #

    “We’re Burgess Merideth stumbling around the apocalypse, glasses shattered at our feet, screaming, “Not fair! It’s not faaaair!””

    In relationship to this thread in particular, I kind of like another episode of Twilight Zone, which was also starring Burgess Meridith, where he played a librarian. You know, the one where throughout the entire 30 minutes they kept telling him, “YOU ARE EXPENDABLE!!!”. It never happens in Raleigh of course, but I think that kinda fits around here anyway.

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