Updated “State of the Program” Thoughts

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OK, dark side – you win. Last night’s disastrous effort pushed me over the edge. Taking a cue from Sidney Lowe’s motivational techniques and substitution patterns, I will not order my thoughts logically and just throw crap against the wall to see what sticks:

– Sidney Lowe has clearly lost this team, for the second year in a row. That’s completely unacceptable, and could be a program destroyer.

– Sidney Lowe not only put a shell-shocked Javi Gonzalez into a tie game cold midway through the second half, but also did so without a secondary ballhandler on the court with him. Gee, who could have predicted three straight turnovers (though somehow the boxscore only lists two) in that situation? I was mildly surprised that no crazed fans charged the court to set themselves on fire in protest.

– Julius Mays kept State in the game during the second half, but don’t read too much into it. Against a more disciplined opponent, he won’t be able to run around for 30 seconds, then get an open lane or pull-up jumper. And he still finished the game with no assists.

– The “effort” lineup that worked against FSU for about 10 minutes in the second half will not be able to stand against better competition. Even against the Noles, it was weak defensively and on the glass.

– By the “consecutive ACC losses” measure, Sidney Lowe is now the losingest coach in NC State history (hat tip, SFN commenters)! That’s saying alot from an institution that once employed Les Robinson for six long years. Congratulations, Coach!

– I’ve said this many times privately, and nobody has ever contradicted it – the only staff member that seems to have any clue about “nuts and bolts” college coaching is #3 assistant Pete Strickland. That’s just pathetic.

– When Lowe was hired, I told numerous friends that the great thing was that “limbo hell” was over – Sid would likely be a smashing success, or an abject failure. Looks like I was right.

– Fellow Hindenburg program Georgia Tech comes to town on Saturday. One team has to win, the other starts worrying about a Bob Wade-like season. State would actually be lucky if the crowd is small – otherwise, the ESA will be full of very angry people.

– I watched last night’s game late on DVR (my wife and kids claimed the HDTV that was recording the game for that awful American Idol show). I sent an e-mail to fellow SFN bloggers with about 9:30 to go and State down 1, saying that even if State comes back to win, this was one of the most poorly coached games I had ever seen. I apologize for not being there live with you on the blog – misery loves company.

– Want to feel even worse? In bad economic times, I think it’s fair to assume that the purse strings of the big money donors are much tighter. I’m not sure the money is there to chase off Fowler and Lowe, much less to throw money at a decent coach for what looks like a very major rebuilding job. Thus, I don’t see any rational reason to have so much as a scintilla of hope.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

08-09 Basketball General NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe

162 Responses to Updated “State of the Program” Thoughts

  1. PackMan97 01/14/2009 at 9:43 AM #

    So much for Lowe not being on the hot seat. Losing will do that to ya, losing bad only speeds up the process.

    I feel like I’m in a Twilight Zone episode in which the punchline is, “Be careful what you wish for”.

  2. Noah 01/14/2009 at 9:46 AM #

    We’re Burgess Merideth stumbling around the apocalypse, glasses shattered at our feet, screaming, “Not fair! It’s not faaaair!”

  3. partialqualifier 01/14/2009 at 9:49 AM #

    This is a great…I mean GREAT post!!! And the comments are awesome as well! This is a great example of why we have the best fans in the world! So many great opinions…and most of them educated ones..lol!

    My thoughts after the game (and I am surprised I was the only one who saw this)…were similar to my thoughts at times last year. The “Sendek Guys” (Horner, Costner, McCauley, & Fells) are aweful! Those guys have played a TON of basketball at the highest level and are as clueless today as they were when they first got here! Their effort and fundamentals are atrocious. We played our best basketball of the game (and IMO the season) last night with Mayes, CJ, J. Thomas, and Smith on the floor. Last season I thought the only guys that gave consistent effort were JJ, Degand, Javy, and Smith. There is a pattern here.

    It seems to me that the new guys that Lowe has brought in the last couple of seasons are the one’s giving the effort. They are more athletic and play harder and better than the other guys. To me, the problem is talent with these guys. None of those guys are talented to enough to be playing a lot of minutes in the ACC as of now…but I think they will be.

    That being said…Lowe is doing a terrible job coaching. It is obvious to all of us that his substitution patterns are horrendous, and he allows some of these guys to make the same mistakes over and over again. For some reason he has allowed Fells and Costner to play three seasons w/o being able to make a decent pass or handle any kind of pressure defense. He continues to play guys that should never play…at least until they learn to do a few of the fundamentals (like dribbling, spacing, moving w/o the ball, and the bounce pass). I mean, you don’t have to be John Wooden to figure this stuff out. I coached a Middle School basketball team that new that stuff.

  4. frankiepack 01/14/2009 at 9:50 AM #

    “Sid’s deathwatch officially started last night.” That in itself speaks volumes about us and this program that after 11 losses in a row we reluctantly start to call Sid on this.

  5. choppack1 01/14/2009 at 10:00 AM #

    “Consistency is better than occasional greatness”

    And if you’ve been watching THIS team – you understand why he preached that. This team is perfect example of the perils of incosistency – give Lowe credit though, the results HAVE been consistent.

    Sendek for all of his faults, was about the process and details. (All too often the process and details were forgotten in key moments – which is why he was never embraced by the fanbase.)

    These were the kind of games Sendek’s teams won – even when they were mediocre…A “bubble” team would come to Raleigh, and we’d win by 7-13 points. In the lean years, we’d lose to the same team on the road – usually in a heartbreaker. Then we’d lose to UNC, Duke and whomever else was really good that year and go 6-10.

    When we were good under Sendek, we’d sweep a team like FSU, lose one or two headscratchers and get swept by the best 2 teams in the conference and go 10-6 or 9-7.

    Right now, we’re seeing what I believe is a result of a lack of fundamentals. I am just not sure if Lowe and staff are using their practice time wisely enough. I’m not at practice, so I can’t do anything other than speculate.

    As for Fowler, there’s no excuse for him having this job. He should be fired for cause, but I thought that 5 years ago when he strated insulting his customers.

  6. tvp1 01/14/2009 at 10:03 AM #

    “Based on that thought, we probably wouldn’t go after a current top coach. Most likely we would be looking at mid-majors and young assistants at big programs.”

    which is what we should have done anyway three years ago.

    after Calipari turned us down, Frank Haith or someone like that should have been hired within a week. But no…Coach Fowler had to waste 2 weeks chasing Belein and Lavin.

  7. Rochester 01/14/2009 at 10:04 AM #

    When people say no one would want to coach here, we are in a totally different situation than 3 years ago. Then we were a dissatisfied bunch after five straight NCAA tournaments, with only a single Sweet 16 in the bunch. Now we’re a dissatisfied bunch after our team has plunged new depths in the john. If we stink it up again next year (or go 0-16 this year), we’ll need to make a change, and I really think we should find someone both willing and competent. And if Fowler will use a third party to conduct the search, as he did in football, even he might be capable of landing a good coach.

  8. RedTerror29 01/14/2009 at 10:06 AM #

    BJD95, I don’t think we need to overpay to get a head coach. But we can’t repeat our previous pattern of throwing big-time money at several guys and then just hiring anybody. If noone at the top of the game, and their game, is interested (not much of an if), then we need to go out and hire a small-time coach with the ability to rebuild our program.

    How many years a coach gets should depend on his performance. If this year is as disasterous as last year, then I have no problem pulling the plug early. Who cares if we have great recruits lined up? If a coach can’t coach somebody else’s players there’s no evidence he will be able to coach his own.

    While we may have some trouble luring a new coach, we will have no trouble luring a damn fine AD. There’s really no reason to wait at this point. While LTRs ensure the red ink will come later, they will also ensure it will take longer to get back in the black because people will be slower to sign up for LTRs again.

  9. com state10 01/14/2009 at 10:09 AM #

    Although our thoughts on SID may differ, I see most can agree that he deserves one more year, with the hottest seat possible.

    You all are not accounting for this competitiveness, and love for NC STATE. There is just no way this guy will leave his coaching post a loser.

    Although I wish we saw him take responsibility more often, I also wish we would see him absolutely flip out and get thrown out of a game, or get fined in a post game press conf. I miss that absolute passion this team and coaching staff displayed in their first year miracle run.

    When is the last time you’ve seen BigBen skip up the court yelling and screaming and raising his arms to the crowd? I miss the passion.

    He made it clear he liked what he saw out of the young guys last night, and if he goes with them and develops them throughout the rest of the year, I couldnt be more pleased. I can wait another year as long as he builds for the future with the bright spots we saw last night.

    Not that I havn’t been suprised before with his PT, I would be shocked if we didn’t see alot of mays thomas and williams on Saturday.

    I respect all dissenting opinions, but I just don’t understand your continued anger. If you say you give up on the season, then do so, and look for the things we can build on constructively.

    No hope of NCAA’s, fading hope of NIT…BUILD FOR THE FUTURE SID!

  10. eas 01/14/2009 at 10:15 AM #

    It was SO OBVIOUS our best line up last night was CJ,Smith,Thomas,Mays & Horner(barely though). They aren’t a typical ACC line up but it worked. As soon as we put the “starters” back in we basically went scoreless. No hustle, horrible passes and AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL shot selection.

    Big Ben -(as much as I hate to say it) has been nothing better than awful, clumsy & slow this year. He really hasn’t provided anything positive to this point.

    Fells – What can I say that hasn’t been said already. Combined 5 minutes of good plays and the rest don’t exist or are just awful decisions.

    Costner – Coming around slowly but seems to still hang his head down when things don’t go his way. Hope is there though.

    Javi – Division II reserve guard.

    Ferg – Obviously not a great player but he DOES provide good minutes for the most part. Hustle is there.

    Horner – He is not awful but not good. Really needs to be a 3 guard/small forward who provides match up problems as a shooter outside the arc.

    Smith – Deserves a lot of minutes!

    FRESHMEN (Redshirts as well): Mays is getting better every game. CJ and Thomas are very athletic and show a lot of potential. They need more minutes.

    What I think thus far of Lowe: Good recruiter but a bad coach. Can’t figure out a rotation or who should actually play to save his life. Herb’s players are getting way too much time on the court. Lowe will get one more year and I will hope for a miracle (mainly because I think he would be a longterm coach if he can make it happen) otherwise send him home. Then end up a great coach and LOOSE all of our new recruits, followed by 3 years of “rebuilding”.

    Same process for almost the last 20 years, which is sad. It will never end. My wife told me last night (Tarhole fan-no comment) that if Roy Williams were at State the fans would fire him as well. I NOT SO NICELY said if we had a coach that only lost 5 games or less a year we would built a shrine for them. Yet the Tarholes are never satisfied with success and don’t understand anything. I hope they fire ol’Roy……Serves them right. Greedy Ba******

  11. packof81 01/14/2009 at 10:25 AM #

    I would rather see us go the way of MIT and not have a team than what we’ve had. But that’ll never happen. Instead, the agony will continue. Many fans will simply lose interest in the program, having been marginal for so long. Sid will probably finish out his contract and move on. Fowler is dug in like a tick.

  12. com state10 01/14/2009 at 10:27 AM #

    ADMINS: is there a way we could write a response to somebody’s post, right in their comment box? Not sure if you guys have facebook, but if you do, kinda like commenting on somebody’s status. Sorry to post it here but I just thought that may help.

  13. Jibby08 01/14/2009 at 10:29 AM #

    I must say last night’s game was a disappointment for most of us. As a recent graduate, it sure is tough to watch our program at this time and has been for the past couple of years. With that, we must stay optimistic and keep striding forward because I do believe that our current freshman class is growing up fast. With new prospects on the way, our program will be at the top soon. To Sidney’s credit, his players that he recruited performed well last night. I hate to bash Herb’s crew, but they haven’t performed well lately, and I think once Sid’s boys see the court more, we will be destined for some promising basketball in the ACC.

  14. travelwolf 01/14/2009 at 10:30 AM #

    i’m still hoping something happens by the end of the season. granted, things aren’t looking too good after yesterday’s game. but we still almost beat 3 top 20 programs. our big problem is that we have NO good PG. hang in there and ‘enjoy’ the ride. if we have a pathetic season this year (5 wins or less), i say to can Lowe – but find a good coach to replace him first.

  15. Classof89 01/14/2009 at 10:30 AM #

    Actually the despair goes all the way to the top–Oblinger seems a nice enough fellow, but not the sort who would go to Fowler and tell him that he’s fired if he doesn’t fire Lowe. I keep running over in my head this fantasy scenario where someone, anyone steps in and gets rid of both of them at the same time. But then I wake up and realize that Marye Anne Fox is in San Diego…

  16. BJD95 01/14/2009 at 10:32 AM #

    Good comment about practice. Again, the only coach on staff with any idea how to run a D-1 practice is #3 assistant Pete Strickland. That’s just sad.

    When we play a team with more discipline (and once the players have tape to review), the effort lineup isn’t going to cut it. It was less maddening to watch, but they really only ran one play (Mays dribbles until free to shoot, with Thomas looking for the offensive rebound).

    You must account for the fact that FSU is not a good basketball team, and was playing on the road. What happens when we play a first division team on the road? We’ll get pasted.

  17. Alpha Wolf 01/14/2009 at 10:35 AM #

    ADMINS: is there a way we could write a response to somebody’s post, right in their comment box?

    No. The WordPress software is not geared for that, except for admins, who have comment editing power.

    The best way to respond is to cut and paste a quote and use the HTML to italicize it if you so choose. I would paste the code sequence but it is automatically rendered and you’d never see it, so look here:

    http://www.pageresource.com/html/textags.htm

    underline does not work,
    bold works
    italics work
    and I think that strikethrough works.

  18. Noah 01/14/2009 at 10:35 AM #

    You all are not accounting for this competitiveness, and love for NC STATE. There is just no way this guy will leave his coaching post a loser.

    Being competitive and liking NC State doesn’t make you a good coach. It doesn’t even factor into the equation. It means that if you ARE a good coach, you’ll be popular with the fans on the rubber-chicken circuit.

    Also, I disagree that Lowe is a good recruiter. I think Larry Harris is a good recruiter.

  19. Jibby08 01/14/2009 at 10:36 AM #

    Did anyone see the trumpet player take out one of asst coaches last night at the game?…Probably the most humorous occasion of the evening besides watching Floppy Ferguson run up and down the court and Javi playing for FSU.

  20. old13 01/14/2009 at 10:36 AM #

    I think that the right idea to get the BOT’s attention is to turn in LTRs as was suggested by others – but it can’t stop there. I think that the contributions to non-athletic areas of NCSU have to be threatened as well, and the reason why made known to them, before the BOT will actually give a hoot and press for improvements in the Athletics Department. Apparently they think they are in the Ivy League!

    BTW someone posted this very interesting information on one of the NCSU message boards:

    ACC WINS SINCE LOWE TOOK OVER
    TEAM ACC WINS
    North Carolina 25
    Duke 23
    Virginia Tech 20
    Clemson 19
    Maryland 19
    Virginia 17
    Florida State 15
    Boston College 15
    Georgia Tech 15
    Wake Forest 13
    Miami 13
    NC State 9

  21. Classof89 01/14/2009 at 10:37 AM #

    So, assembling from some discussions yesterday, here is our unofficial list of the longest ACC mens basketball losing streaks in conference play:

    (1) Clemson 28 (1954-56)
    (2) Wake Forest 24 (1985-87)
    (3)Georgia Tech 18 (1980-81)
    (4) Virginia 17 (1960-61)
    (5) Maryland 16 (1986-87, including the last winless season in ACC competition in 1987))
    (6) Wake Forest 14 (1989-90)
    (7) Clemson 13 (1956-57)
    (8) Clemson (1970), South Carolina (1953-54) 12
    (10) Georgia Tech (1979) NC State (2008-09) 11

    Have I missed any? Longest I have for Duke is 9 in 1995, and I don’t have the season results for UNC’s 7-20 season recently.

  22. SidtheKid 01/14/2009 at 10:39 AM #

    I just hope we aren’t fooled by a highly ranked recruiting class b/c the team Sid has now isn’t the best but its not like Indiana with 4 guys on scholarship. I don’t see him turning these highly ranked recruits into a team that is anything better than average.

    In most sports, the GM is given only so many opportunities to hire and fire head coaches. Any chance this applies to us?

  23. Daily Update 01/14/2009 at 10:41 AM #

    Classof89: We are now at 11.

  24. rswilli2 01/14/2009 at 10:41 AM #

    BJD95, if Pete is the only good college coach on the staff, is there a reason he’s not being listened to?

  25. highstick 01/14/2009 at 10:49 AM #

    Thanks for keeping me updated guys! I can no longer bear to watch anymore! It took longer for me to get to this point with HWSNBN, but I’m already here!

    Lee Fowler has got to go! Crank up the engines, fire up the chainsaw and let’s cut that scumbag loose!

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