Giglio: Same problems for Pack

Joe Giglio has penned an excellent blog entry at ACCNow – New season, same old issues for Pack.

I’ve got a ton to say and not a lot of time to say it – WolfpackNation is more divided this morning than we have been in the last couple of years. There are probably as many different solutions to our problems as there are different perspectives that exist out there right now.

I wanted to copy and paste some excerpts from the entry but that resulted in me basically pasting the entire article. If I had to pick something short and sweet to highlight then I would go with the following:

By the 15-minute mark of the second half, Lowe had seen enough of his senior and fourth-year junior, he turned to Mays, Thomas and Williams — three freshmen. If you’re going to lose, don’t let one losing season turn into two. Lowe has every right to attempt to develop the talent for next season.

“Those are the guys we’re going to have count on now and down the road,” Lowe said.

Personally, I think Coach Sidney Lowe would serve himself and his job security well by rolling out a line-up of Julius Mays, CJ Williams, Johnny Thomas, Tracy Smith and a 5th player of his choosing (personally, I would go with McCauley). If the rest of the players don’t like it, then they can either work their asses off by playing defense, blocking out and keeping their heads in the game or they can simply not play.

Hell…we are probably going to lose anyway. If we are going to lose, then most fans would rather lose with players that:
(1) obviously bust their asses;
(2) obviously care about the outcome of the game: and
(3) can gain valuable experience that can be helpful in the years to come.

Why bother losing with players that can’t get it done either physically or mentally?

If Coach Lowe takes this opportunity to actually/FINALLY execute a ‘my way or the highway’ mandate then he will do more for his job security in losses than he would by winning a couple of extra, ultimately meaningless games. He also would be laying a sustainable foundation for success in the future. If not, he runs a greater risk of not having a future.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

08-09 Basketball General Sidney Lowe

134 Responses to Giglio: Same problems for Pack

  1. ryebread 01/15/2009 at 8:45 AM #

    I’ve discussed this ad nauseam with my circle of friends who are all NC State alums who were there during the purgatory that was the Les Robinson years and the early HWSNBN years. I’m comparing things to our time at NC State and that’s all that really needs to be said about where we currently stand.

    The dead horse of HWSNBN has been beaten to death, so we know how we got here. The question is given where we are now, how do we get out of this mess. Here’s my personal recipe for improvement:

    1) Regardless of who is the coach, recruiting will ultimately be required to fix what ails us currently. We have mismatched talent, lack talent at the key positions and have taken too many fliers who have not panned out in the last 2-3 years. As a fan base, school, coaching staff, students, etc. we need to support recruiting in whatever fashion we can within NCAA limits.

    2) Fans need to accept that SL will be back next year barring an 0-16 ACC season. Discuss the valid concerns related to basketball and call up every NC State person (Wolfpack club, AD, Chancellor’s office) if you want, pull your Wolfpack club donations, turn in your tickets, but don’t poison recruiting by calling for Sid’s head vocally publicly. Fowler and those above him will not make a change this year barring a complete and utter meltdown. We’ll need as many good kids as we can get regardless of the coach to get out of this mess.

    3) Fire Lee Fowler at the end of the season if we’re not in the NCAAs: Honestly, when HWSNBN left, I expected a year of complete misery, a year of improvement sending us to the NIT followed by a trip to the NCAA tournament. This was the case regardless of who was the coach.

    We actually overachieved in year one, underachieved by missing the NIT last season and no NCAA tournament appears to be in sight for this season. If anything, we’re trending downwards against expectations.

    The ax should be sharpened and ready to fall on Lee if we don’t make the tournament this year. The man has mismanaged the most critical asset under his watch and regardless of other indicators or metrics, that gets you fired in most similar, high profile, highly paid jobs. He’s the wrong man for the job and I’ve seen nothing that suggests to me that he’ll improve.

    This needs to be done NOW so that a new AD gets all of next year to assess the situation, come to his own opinions and potentially build his replacement candidate list. Regardless of what happens with SL, we cannot afford another bball coaching search under LF. If I didn’t think we’d already named Yow’s successor, I’d be for immediately firing Lee in order to get someone competent to hire the coach for the women’s team.

    4) If SL wants a pass on this year, then he’s going to need to ride his own players. Right or wrong, the fans have seen enough of our upper classmen. If I were him, I’d personally play the following line up:
    Guards:
    Mays and Fergie/CJ starting. Degand playing emergency minutes for Mays due to the effort he gives.
    Forwards:
    Some combination of Fells, Costner, Thomas (knees permitting) and Smith starting and getting the vast majority of the minutes. Horner and Harris should play emergency minutes due to the effort they give.

    The rest of the kids shouldn’t see the court at this point. I appreciate what they’ve done for the school, but it’s time to move on.

    That is realistically a 7 man line up. Get the sub pattern down and let’s go from there. If any of those 7 loafs or mouths off, sit them down for the rest of the game and make an example of them regardless of who they are and how critically wounded it leaves us for that game.

    I think we should exclusively play zone defense. We are too slow and lacking in fundamentals to play good man to man, help defense. We should take advantage of our height — which seems to be our one physical advantage. We should try to run on missed shots as much as possible because we need as many easy baskets as we can get without having to play against a set defense. That’s the strategy we employed late in the first half and early in the second half against FSU that resulted in our runs.

    Even if we do all of these things, I’ll be the first to admit that we will probably still suck out loud. I personally feel that this at least gives us our best chance to win, but I’ve said from the beginning this year that our realistic goal was the NIT.

    5) The administration needs to wake up and realize that sports are important to the culture of a school. What the administration fails to grasp (outside of MAF, who I feel we miss greatly) is that winning in athletics trickles down to the rest of the school. We hate UNC and Duke partially because of that air of entitlement that they have. They have it though due to a culture of excellence that manifests itself in their athletic programs. Let’s be honest — we have a culture of accepting mediocrity and using a limited budget as an excuse for justifying that acceptance. This is a loser’s mentality best seen in athletics which in turn trickles down to all elements of the school.

    If I were the Chancellor, I’d be absolutely disgusted every time I saw a piece of UNC garb on campus and I’d be livid at the yearly articles in the Technician where some student editor defends his love for UNC. That’s akin to showing up for work at Ford wearing a Honda shirt, driving a Honda and then exposing Honda’s virtues in every project or meeting.

    We need to instill a winner’s attitude in all facets of the school and the athletic programs are a great, public facing way to do it. It will reap countless benefits ranging from better student applicants to more grant money. It will also unify the alumni and keep the donations rolling in (which is really the only thing that seems to matter).

  2. Pack Leader 01/15/2009 at 8:47 AM #

    just a thought but why dont we bring in kay yow’s sister (debbie yow) as new AD and fire fowler???? she has been a successful AD at maryland for serveral years and was raised in NC. Dont tell me we couldnt convince her to come join her sister and finally bring some accountability to the athletic dept. If you ask me, although many people didnt like marye ann fox, i feel like she ran the university with a no bs attitude in athletics and academics. mabey oblinger needs to go to if he lets folwer do whatever he wants. To fix the problem that is NCSU athletics is a messy process….

  3. Red_Terrors 01/15/2009 at 9:01 AM #

    What do Billy Grahmam and NC State basketball have in common? … They can both make 20 thousand people stand up and yell Jesus Christ.

  4. Pack Leader 01/15/2009 at 9:04 AM #

    hahahahha good one Red Terrors!

  5. howlie 01/15/2009 at 9:07 AM #

    I want to register caution in comments at this time by fans–and suggest that what I’m reading in the frustration of many seems like toxic fuel poured on a fire.

    I was at the FSU game, and when Ben & Brandon were sitting for much of the 2nd half, they were ON THEIR FEET and WAVING TOWELS and cheering on their younger teammates as they made a run, and took us ahead. There was no sulking; there was no ‘shame’ and ‘judgement’ put upon them by coaches.

    It’s the coach’s responsibility to FIND THE COMBINATION that’s working. It took much of the 1st half to realize Johnny, Mays, Courtney, Dennis, and [I’m forgetting one] were the players willing to take the shot FSU WOULD GIVE US. FSU was taking AWAY the 3 pt. shot and driving our men to the basket to their shotblockers. WHAT THEY GAVE US and what they DARED US TO TAKE was the pull-up, intermediate shot. The coaches kept those players on the court, and when they ran out of gas after 17 minutes of continuous play, Ben and Brandon came in and tried to chunk the 3 and shoot among the trees–what didn’t work in the 1st half. They did not adjust their games. Excuse my ignorance, but I don’t see where the “coaching mistake” was. The “success group” just ran out of gas, and the starters [now bench] could not come in and relieve them. Coaches put players in a position to have success, the players have to execute. What OTHER options were left to Sid that night? Farnold was getting schooled on D and ineffective on O. He put in Javi, telling him this was his chance, and Javi bounced it off his foot three straight times–before being jerked off the court. Did you then want him to put Trevor or Courtney at PG? There WERE no more options but an exhausted Mays.

    Mays [I hope]“came of age” in the FSU game. There was a dirty play after a FT when the FSU defender ran right up behind Mays after a FT, and as Julius turned to run downcourt, where he was tripped and badly hurt his forearm. From that point on in the game, Julius was strong with the ball to the lane, and popped the shot [getting fouled repeatedly, with no call] and was not afraid to create his shot. It is the FIRST positive, proactive PG play we’ve seen this year. I HOPE it is a
    “PG TURNING POINT” in us finally having a 5th player on the court and a leader. There comes a time when the vets keep razzing the freshmen in the league with “welcome to the ACC cheap shots,” and a time when a kid responds. I hope this is a turned corner for Mays and the team searching for a PG.

    While Sid may have been frustrated with the older bigs, I don’t know that THEY knew it during the game, and I don’t see evidence he has “lost control” of this team. By reading it in press, NOW, after the game… perhaps the poison has been poured. But I’m not sure it’s not the elixir for new life for the team, and encourage fans to allow that possibility too.

  6. primacyone 01/15/2009 at 9:17 AM #

    ^Good post howlie.

    Some really good stuff did happen in that game with the younger players.

  7. Sam92 01/15/2009 at 9:46 AM #

    good point pack leader, i just wonder what it takes to get rid of oblinger. maybe the point is that fowler won’t go unless oblinger goes first

    but the problem is there at the top, because when we finally fire sidney we need a gutsy, imaginative AD finding his replacement. someone who can go out there and find a young, talented guy with promise, not some fossil who will give us mediocre success for a few years, or an alum with sentimental value

    how come firesidneylowe.com doesn’t seem to be updated?

  8. Pack Leader 01/15/2009 at 10:13 AM #

    it cant be good that Wall has visited duke several times in the last few weeks and was behind their bench on the 7th. Like i have said in previous comments, speaking to friends of john wall, his mother wont let him go to far away (due to her illness) and I think he sees the problems at state and coach k is no dummie hes using that in his favor even though state has been recruting him for years. coach k’s pitch, do you want to go to a top 10 school w/ a solid coach, or to raleigh the bottom feeder of the acc w/ administration problems.

  9. Par Shooter 01/15/2009 at 10:24 AM #

    The idea that we should bench the seniors and Costner may sound good to us frustrated fans but it is no solution. You’ve got to realize that these guys live together, eat together, practice together and hang out together. And I suspect that Sid & staff have encouraged the younger guys to look up to the seniors (+BC). Publicly humiliating these guys to make a point and causing a huge rift in the team dynamic would just make things worse. The older kids would undoubtedly be undermining Sid to the younger guys and things like official visits for recruits could be a disaster.

    What needs to happen is that Sid needs to find a way to get through to these guys and make them team leaders rather than chemistry issues. I think one of Sid’s biggest weaknesses is that he doesn’t know how to motivate these guys. For the last 1.5 yrs we’ve seen several times where he has used public embarrassment as a means of trying to motivate. To me, that’s a sign of desperation and inexperience. If they aren’t meeting expectations that should be dealt with behind closed doors and fixed before the team takes the court.

    Probably my biggest disappointment with Sid is that he has not instilled any type of pride or passion for the guys in this program. I felt that one area where Sid would be a clear upgrade would be in making these guys understand what it means to play basketball for NC State and understanding how honored they were to wear the jersey and represent our school. I feel he has been an abject failure in this regard and that is inexcusible.

  10. wufpup76 01/15/2009 at 10:32 AM #

    ryebread feels about the same way I do on the subject – I agree with many of his/her points … I too was there for the last couple of “Les” seasons and the first of the HWSNBN regime … In other words, it usually sucked to attend a basketball game

    I *think* most on here liked MAF – or at least appreciate the competitive spirit she tried to bring to the athletics side of the equation … I don’t think it can be underestimated how much her love of athletics (or at least realizing athletics’ importance) and her ‘in your face’ style rubbed our academics the wrong way

    In other words, it seemed to me that she was trying to change the culture at NC State and the sit on your hands and cherish no change crowd didn’t like it so much … I think from the top down this is all we need to know … We had someone at the top in place who wanted to be a winner and a take no sh*t kind of leader – AND – we promptly try to run her off … That is the culture at NC State

    Let’s face it, we’ve got somebody running the entire show who literally hates athletics – and it will probably stay that way … There’s a ‘Meet the Fockers’ type attitude where a 10th place ribbon is something to be cherished and there is zero demand for improvement let alone performance … So long as the academics are happy, that’s all that really matters until the MONEY dries up

    It seems to me that all the people within the UNC education system who actually *enjoy* athletics all cheer for Chapel Hill … After all, we see how long it takes to correct a wrong over there – people get unhappy and a change is made … There are actual demands for success … Over here, we get the ‘meh’ attitudes … Doesn’t really matter, oh well … No need to fire anybody or hold anyone accountable b/c we all should be cheering for Chapel Hill anyways

    I love it

  11. happypackdad 01/15/2009 at 10:36 AM #

    “Probably my biggest disappointment with Sid is that he has not instilled any type of pride or passion for the guys in this program. I felt that one area where Sid would be a clear upgrade would be in making these guys understand what it means to play basketball for NC State and understanding how honored they were to wear the jersey and represent our school. I feel he has been an abject failure in this regard and that is inexcusible.”

    No one has tried to instill NCSU pride into these players/program than Sid.

  12. RedRiver 01/15/2009 at 10:42 AM #

    Long time lurker…
    It appears obvious to me the Mcauley, Fells, Gonzalez et al are not getting the job done, and in some cases are completely out of their league. The comment has been made that it is the coaches job to find the best line up, my question to that is, isn’t that what practice and scrimmage are for? I mean seriously? Given as much information as is available, shouldn’t we have an idea about how our opponent is going to play us and who in our system can best combat that? I understand the concept of having a great practice and following that with a flop, but every game? Get real!
    I am not ready to throw in the towel on Coach Lowe, but at some point you have to realize that what you are doing is not working and do something different, even if that feels like a mistake at the time. This is not the lottery where every time you play the odds are the same.
    I am beginning to feel like all three of the Duke football fans who suffered through the last few years. The big difference is that they had a viable, if chicken poo, excuse in that they were handicapped by their academic requirements.

    Just my .02, YMMV

  13. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/15/2009 at 10:49 AM #

    Newt second post in this thread is fair but it doesn’t explain why this group of players have no emotion, will, fight, desire and seem to care less about the fact that they are getting a free education to play basketball not run around a basketball court like a bunch of zombies. It is a disgrace to the program and history of the NC State.

    I think Sid should on play the guys that want to play… Move the rest so far down the bench they are not visible and pull their scholarships at the end of the year.

  14. Rick 01/15/2009 at 11:20 AM #

    I think Fowler and the BOT want athletics to be irrelevant. They have guaranteed income with the LTRs and a coach that does not cost much. Optimally for them would be a team that no one cares about. They have money and no hassle.

  15. Noah 01/15/2009 at 11:22 AM #

    I’m just curious….raise your hand if you think Lee Fowler should ABSOLUTELY keep his job.

    Anyone? You don’t have to defend your answer. I’m not going to attack you. I just want to know if you exist.

  16. pakfanistan 01/15/2009 at 11:35 AM #

    *raises hand*

    I love Lee. I think what he has done for the university has been fantastic.

    Because of his leadership, I no longer have to waste precious hours of my life following NCSU athletics. I’m free to focus on developing new hobbies, like scrap booking or knitting.

    Thanks to Lee Fowler, I’m a more productive member of society.

  17. happypackdad 01/15/2009 at 12:27 PM #

    Pretty sure LF wants competative athletics. He doesn’t want to hear s#$t from the fans 24/7. He also wants his profile as high/good as possible. TOB & Sid will get us where we want to be.

  18. TomCat 01/15/2009 at 12:40 PM #

    It’s pretty obvious and simple… STATE! HAS! NO! GUARDS! — We have HUGE whole in guard play and the guys signed in the past two years to fill the position once we missed on a couple opportunities are HORRIBLE lower-tier major college players at best. Javi and the other kid, end of the bench players on any roster in the ACC. Silverlining: we have help on the way. Until then… I don’t care if you are John Wooden- you aint squeezing blood out of this turnip. It’s ’10 or bust for Sid.

  19. redfred2 01/15/2009 at 12:46 PM #

    “Probably my biggest disappointment with Sid is that he has not instilled any type of pride or passion for the guys in this program.”

    I could not agree more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I expected Sid to spew on and on about NC State/pride in the ACC/and championships of any kind. I know there is a fine line there, you’ll see some ignorant fans start jumping up and down when the coach doesn’t produce some kind championship within about a month or so after even mentioning the word “championship”.

    I am VERY disappointed in Sidney Lowe’s public persona of late. He is becoming a non-stop loop of canned coach speak, and I DID NOT see that coming AT ALL!!!

    If I could speak to the coach I would tell him that he had better start showing what NC State means to him better than he has been, and that he had better start communicating a vision, HIS vision, letting us fans/alums/boosters know that he is AWARE of what we are seeing. Just admit that you are struggling at present, and then convince us that you are working HARD to straighten it out.

    As far as Lowe throwing the players under the bus, I say that the coach needs to grow a set, and start making his points out on the coaching bench when IT MATTERS, and when he pulls those players aside in person right in front of the entire crowd. His game demeanor is looking more and more like… well, I won’t say.

  20. Justin Gainey 01/15/2009 at 12:58 PM #

    I think Sid should take a page out of the book of Coach K. Sit the starting five, or at least Costner, Fells and McCauley, for the first 5 minutes of the game. Start Smith, Thomas and Williams in their place. Show them if you don’t produce, you don’t start. Maybe then, and I stress maybe, they will get it in their thick heads that he means business. I would do it this weekend against Georgia Tech. What else could go wrong, honestly. We lose. That would be nothing new. I don’t think these guys could do worse, they actually showed a lot of promise and heart in the minutes they played against FSU. Something, anything, to show you have control of the team and you don’t take crap lightly.

  21. VaWolf82 01/15/2009 at 12:58 PM #

    I’m just curious….raise your hand if you think Lee Fowler should ABSOLUTELY keep his job.

    While alot of people were grumbling about LF before Herb left, the moment he began pursuing Lavin left no room for doubt that he is completely unqualified to be AD at NC State.

  22. choppack1 01/15/2009 at 1:01 PM #

    Let’s face it, there are 2 main reasons that Sid is still getting some support.

    1) He’s demonstrated the potential to be a very good recruiter.

    2)He’s a former alum, who was the starting PG on our championship team.

    I guess we have at least 2 years of not knowing where we’re going as a program. Is it simply a case of Sid being able to stock his rosters w/ his guys and we’ll return to national glory or is this what we can expect to see regardless of whom is on the roster?

    The optimist in me can see a case where we become a team similar to Wake Forest. We bring a good class next year – hopefully adding at least one “big”, and go 7-9 or better in the conference, the team learns how to win and what kind of effort the ACC requires. This sets us up for a special year in 2010 when Leslie and Harrow arrive – 2 recruits who have given Sid verbals who look like they could change the landscape.

    The question is – will we respond the way that Wake has to the infusion of talent? I think Gaudio was the logical hire, but anytime an assistant is promoted, you have to wonder if he’s the right choice – after all, assistants are assistants for a reason. However, the last 2 years, Wake has responded very well to his coaching. And quite frankly, at this point right now, he’s probably coach of the year. Granted, his team is loaded – but he has these guys playing very hard and smart.

  23. wufpup76 01/15/2009 at 1:22 PM #

    ^I think Gaudio also knows how to motivate his players … There was no letdown from the Hole game to going on the road against BC

    Gaudio said they talked quite a bit about the 39 point drubbing that BC laid on them last season and really rubbed in their faces after the Hole game … Perfect ploy, IMO

    I’m not giving up on Sid, he has show some recruiting chops and I actually think he’s a pretty good tactician … That said, there are obvious flaws that need *immediate* attention IMNSHO … Accountability and Motivation come to mind

  24. Noah 01/15/2009 at 1:24 PM #

    2)He’s a former alum, who was the starting PG on our championship team.

    So I guess we should be grateful that Ernie Myers didn’t get named the head coach.

  25. Old School Wolf 01/15/2009 at 1:25 PM #

    ^ public persona- coach speak, etc.
    Agree with this. Sid is one of us and his/our hurt isn’t going away any time soon. Watching his facial expressions and body language when his TV show opens tells me all I need to know about our current predicament. Sid is in pain and has put on a “game face” mask instead of his smiling , confident face. As long as he doesn’t retreat into a shell with the media and the fans, I bet he gets the job done. Many of his peers and recruits want to help him out of where we all find ourselves. Also want to agree with post above that the seniors seemed genuine in leading the cheers during our FSU comeback. Didn’t seem contrived, seemed as if they still really care. We’ll find out Saturday.

Leave a Reply