Duke Game Thread

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Please post comments here.

SFN in the middle of the game — I just want to go on record that Les Jones is officiating this game. Just want to go on record. More later.

SFN with 9 minutes in the game – why in holy hell is Javi Gonzalez in the friggin game!?!?!

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

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275 Responses to Duke Game Thread

  1. travelwolf 01/20/2009 at 11:34 PM #

    after this game, i’ll bet Coack K doesn’t want to meet us in the ACC Tourney! We might play well a little longer than 35 minutes next time.

    oh, and yes, Gonzales is just too slow… he might have a great head on his shoulders, just the feet are just too slow.

  2. travelwolf 01/20/2009 at 11:38 PM #

    after this game, i’ll bet Coack K doesn’t want to meet us in the ACC Tourney! We might play well a little longer than 35 minutes next time.

    oh, and yes, Gonzales is just too slow… he might have a great head on his shoulders, just the feet are just too slow.

    (this is a redux… without the %20 – obviously b/c i’m using Firefox 3.0)

  3. inhoc... 01/20/2009 at 11:57 PM #

    “they had the momentum and were more poised”
    “duke made the last run, and that was the difference”
    “i`m not concerned about it, we need to get another game in this situation and win it”
    -sidney lowe

    GEEZ, just call your self and idiot and be done with it. when has/will this team ever make that “last run” to beat a decent ACC school? never. when has/will this team have the momentum going into the stretch? never. when has/will this team be more poised? never. i do realize the run that was made in the ACC tourny with atsur, but really doesnt really have any relevance on whats going on today nor can it be used as a valid answer to any of the questions above…
    there is no end in site for these atrocities

  4. JeremyH 01/21/2009 at 1:10 AM #

    The lose aside, I think that the way we pulled out the last game and the way we hung with Duke in this game, shows that these guys are capable of playing good basketball, and in this short stretch have shown some improvement. That’s the silver lining at this point in the season with a long way to go. Tonight I’m thinking it’s kind of tacky to go after Sid.

  5. JeremyH 01/21/2009 at 1:17 AM #

    by the way, who will be our Gerald Henderson?

  6. JeremyH 01/21/2009 at 2:22 AM #

    i just watched the highlights on espn; there was some porous defense with lack of rotations when the first man got beat. Can you teach that? Can you teach the person to be fast enough to rotate, or perhaps look like they are trying to?

  7. Trip 01/21/2009 at 3:07 AM #

    “by the way, who will be our Gerald Henderson?”

    As far as physical tools, the only 2 guys that could possible turn into him are Johnny Thomas or CJ Williams. Our other current stable of players just don’t have the athletic ability or drive.

    As far as just putting us on his back, Costner has shown the ability to do it from time to time… just not consistently. Lorenzo brown may be a candidate next year.

    I had too many beers during this game to remember specifics such as fucking up on rotation or forgetting to box out… I just remember that I saw hustle that I hadn’t seen all year out of EVERYONE on the team and that made me happy even while we were losing.

  8. Astral Rain 01/21/2009 at 7:12 AM #

    I’m not blaming Sid for tonight. One thing that is for certain is that these guys do play hard, and it’s not lack of effort holding them back. At least Sid taught these guys that, and he did have to teach most of them that.

  9. James 01/21/2009 at 7:55 AM #

    Some notes after last night’s loss to put things into historical perspective.

    – We haven’t won at Duke in over 13 years. Our last win in Cameron Indoor was during the 1994-1995 season, a 77-60 win.

    – Sid’s conference record (including ACC Tournament games) is now 13-28. At this point in his tenure, Herb Sendek was 14-28.

    – We haven’t had a true, ACC caliber point guard since Chris Corchiani left.

    – The same vague allusions to future results produced by unproven high school kids were made during the Sendek era. Substitute Byron Mouton, Damien Wilkins, or Scooter Sherrill for the talk of Cousins, Brown, and Favors and the talk is indistinguishable.

  10. Rochester 01/21/2009 at 7:59 AM #

    I saw at least something positive from every guy we played last night, even Javi. Yeah, there were negatives to balance some of them out, but we played much better than I’d expected based on previous games this year. I think this is a team that will improve as the ACC season goes on, unlike last year.

    And for all the Fells haters, here’s a quote from Gerald Henderson, who pretty much singlehandedly won the game for Duke in the second half: “On the perimeter, he’s their best defender … He did a pretty good job on me. I felt I could attack those [other] guys, because I knew Fells was their best player.”

    Fells makes boneheaded plays, yes, but I don’t think we all appreciate his influence on the defensive end. That third foul was BS and it had a lot of impact.

  11. hball57 01/21/2009 at 8:11 AM #

    How about a smart use of fouls that may go unnoticed? Singler and Smith do a pick and roll which puts Degand on Singler in the post on the clear out that Duke likes to use. Degand fouls Singler before the ball can come in to stop the play. This happened twice in the game when we weren’t in the one and one.

    Another no call that Sidney really got hot over was Dennis going for a tap and getting killed from behind. And Singler should have fouled out going over the back at about the 4 minute mark that led to a Duke 3.

    If this team can consistently play with this effort, we could beat any team outside of the top 3 anywhere during the rest of the year. I also love how our team is taking ownership of the losses. Listen to Ben, Courtney and Brandon after the game. Compare that to some of the interviews last year. Whole different attitude.

    Now to all my frustrated State fan “friends”. Does it really make you feel better to be defeatist? I much rather look at the progress of this team and be hopeful. Isn’t that what we should have learned from Jimmy V? Or do we only use the “don’t give up, don’t ever give up” when it looks good for us? If that is so, how are we different from the “Wal-Mart, bandwagon” Carolina fans? Should we be better than that?

  12. Wulfpack 01/21/2009 at 8:20 AM #

    Luke DeCock made a fairly direct point in the N&O this morning that it was Sidney’s substitution pattern that eventually cost us. I didn’t get the sense of that while watching but maybe I will go back and take a look when there’s time. Hindsight is always 20-20.

    An yea Rochester, Fells’ 3rd fould really hurt and that’s precisely when Henderson got going. I don’t think it was even discussed on the telecast, but that was a huge factor no doubt. Fells is our best defender.

    As far as Javi goes, I can appreciate what Sideny is trying to do, to bring him back into the flow so that he can regain his confidence. I think that’s what a true “player’s coach” does. The issue I have with it is that it sacrifices the good of the team. Mays and Degand were more than capable last night and then when Javi was inserted in there he didn’t carry the load and we lost momentum. I’m certainly not putting this one on Javi, Lord knows everybody shares a piece of the blame. But I am failing to understand why Sidney feels the need to play three PGs in one game. I don’t think any other program does that. I can’t imagine Mays and Degand can be happy with it. They’ve each outplayed Javi by far this season, yet he’s stealing some of their minutes. I don’t see the results on the floor to support giving Javi considerable playing time, and I certainly don’t think bringing him into a game being played at Cameron against the #2 Blue Devils when your team is nursing a small lead late in the game is the right time to do it either.

    All in all a very encouraging effort. What is key is that we follow it up with as strong an effort at BC. I think that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Wake and UNC will have our number this year on talent alone. We’re done with Duke and done with Clemson (thank you kindly unbalanced ACC schedule). Our season is going to hinge on our ability to put forth strong efforts and execution against the likes of BC, MD, UVA, VT, GT and Miami.

  13. haze 01/21/2009 at 8:30 AM #

    Great effort that fizzled in the end as the superior team was able to hit some shots and move into a working lead. That lead forced us to abandon the zone and big line-up and caused us to press a bit. TO’s went wild and it snow-balled into a double-digit loss.

    Still, this was a good moment for this team. Mistakes were made (e.g. all 3 PG’s had moments of gross incompetence) but it’s likewise true that practically every player on our team contributed something of value. That’s a good night for this team playing against #2 Duke in Cameron.

    Lastly, I’m loving the effort and aggression from the 3 freshman… they aren’t stars but all can be very good with time and health.
    1) Mays is a little slow but he’s also a natural shooter/scorer. With some muscle and experience, he will be an asset at the 1 & 2 positions.
    2) Thomas has strength, hustle, ups and effort. He’s not a great shooter but he’s not bad either. If the knee holds, he’s going to be an energy guy that can play big minutes covering 3’s and light 4’s. Potential defensive stopper.
    3) CJ needs about 15lbs of muscle added but he’s got the athleticism and size to be a good perimeter defender. He’s also a decent and increasingly aggressive shooter.

  14. pack44fan 01/21/2009 at 8:33 AM #

    I thought the coaching staff did a good job with their game plan on how to attack Duke’s defense. I thought the kids played with heart and determination, thats all you can ask for. I am still bothered by the substitution pattern in the 2nd half from around the ten minute mark to about the 6 minute mark…..It is my opinion that is when the game was lost. For the most part, I thought the refs were a nonissue.

  15. BJD95 01/21/2009 at 8:58 AM #

    Family issues caused me to miss the first half. Based on what I saw during the last 20 minutes:

    1) Much better effort overall than in the win on Saturday. Bringing that level of effort could at least get us to 4-12. That’s not good, but obviously much better than 1-15 or 2-14 (which is what Saturday’s team was on track for).

    2) I don’t know if this was just a matter of Duke adjustments, Fells’ 3rd foul, or a combo – but I didn’t see Duke take a bad shot the entire second half. Good teams knock those down, and Duke certainly did that.

    3) Fells infuriates me as much as anyone – but I’ve come to accept that there simply is no adequate replacement for him, especially when he has the necessary focus to play good defense (as he has the last 2 games). Thomas is the kind of guy you like watching, but he’s a role player who can’t really shoot and is a step slow defensively.

    4) Speaking of role players – that’s a significant problem with this team. We have tons of role players who should be playing no more than 10-15 mpg. The only complete players we have are McCauley and Costner, and they are both gone next year. Recruiting mistakes and poor scholarship spacing are to blame, and I don’t see how this problem resolves itself short-term unless we land at least Wall or Cousins, preferably both.

    5) Yes, Javi had his last real success against Duke – when short, slow Greg Paulus was their primary PG. Now, he’s a backup SG who is their designated 3-point shooter. Thus, Javi’s success can’t be replicated.

    6) It was very nice to see us attack the press and get some buckets in transition, rather than pull the ball out to run a halfcourt set. We have to do that, or every decent opponent will press us for 40 minutes b/c there’s no downside.

  16. Sw0rdf1sh 01/21/2009 at 9:10 AM #

    Besides for the fist 5 and last 5, I really enjoyed the game.

    I didn’t yell at the TV.

    I felt the players put effort forth and played some ball.

    Any loss where we are leading is a hard one, but for the first time all season I’ve enjoyed a full game. (well, second…the GT game was fun to attend the other day)

  17. Noah 01/21/2009 at 9:31 AM #

    We haven’t won at Duke in over 13 years. Our last win in Cameron Indoor was during the 1994-1995 season, a 77-60 win.

    Wasn’t that the year that K was hurt and Dook was something like 13-18?

  18. ryebread 01/21/2009 at 9:47 AM #

    Win as a team, lose as a team. The team gave good effort and I felt the game plan was sound. Some of our in game adjustments hurt Duke both offensively and defensively.

    I think the kids got a little gassed which is disappointing given that Duke actually plays fewer players than we do. We should have had the advantage in a tight, physical game.

    The reffing was actually pretty bad both ways. My GF went to Duke and played PG at a big time Indiana bball program in high school so she has good knowledge of the game. She called out just as many missed fouls from Duke’s side that I called out from State’s side. We both had to just admit that it was bad in both directions.

    Having said that, the tide really turned on 3 points that I can remember:
    1) Fells 3rd foul: That was a cheap one particularly given how many were missed both ways. That’s my biggest problem with officiating — I don’t care what is being called that night as long as it’s being called the same throughout the game for both teams. I see this as similar to the strike zone in baseball — teams just need to figure it out and adjust and they shouldn’t have problems as long as it stays the same that night.

    2) The sub of Javi into the game in the second half: I’m not blaming Javi for this loss, but that was an absolute momentum killer. Javi came in and we were up 3. The first trip down the court, he lost his man and Duke drained a three. We then turned it over and Duke came down and canned another three. We went from up three to down three at the blink of an eye and I’m not sure we ever regained the lead. I’m also not sure that Duke missed a three from that point on (until about garbage time). Mays played well in the first half (though he admittedly struggled at the end of the second half) so if Degand was tired, I’m not sure why he didn’t come in.

    3) Missed free throws in the second half: Against Duke at Cameron when you’re playing 5 on 10 (Duke 5 + Refs 3 + King Rat K + Duke fans), you need every point you can possibly get. We were actually close to building a working lead on Duke and causing THEM to panic (which they will always do if down 7 at the 3 minute mark). Alas, we missed several critical free throws and didn’t capitalize. We seem to lack that killer instinct.

    Oh well, onward and upward. This one was going to be a loss no matter how it was sliced. We desperately need the win against BC.

  19. Texpack 01/21/2009 at 10:08 AM #

    I was yelling for Sidney to get Javi out of the game in the second half as well. The use of Javi looks like what I refer to as trying to “steal minutes.” For some reason, Sidney doesn’t think he can get enough quality minutes from the point by using only Mays and Degand. I saw several comments on here about Degand looking gassed in the second half so I think most outside observers agree that Mays should be getting Javi’s minutes. There has to be something going on with Mays. Maybe he’s free lancing more than Sidney wants or not playing defense like he wants or something. I can’t figure out what it is, but with the pattern I’ve seen over the last three games, there has to be something Sidney is trying to teach Mays.

    Section Six opened my eyes to how critical three point shooting has become in college basketball with their eFG% statistic. We simply don’t have enough good shooters to be competitive with good teams under the current rules. That is the main reason I like the idea of trying to play Smith along with BC and Ben. If you put Fells and Mays on the floor with that trio, you might even generate some decent inside out looks from three point land.

    Off season assignments. CJ Williams and Johnny Thomas 1,000 jump shots per day. Dennis Horner needs to add about 15 ponds of muscle so he can become a full time banger. His development as a shooter stalled about 2.5 seasons ago. I had high hopes for him as a spot up shooter, but not any more.

    We are looking better but we need this kind of performance against the crappy ACC teams so we can piece together 6-7 conference wins.

  20. SEAT.5.F.2 01/21/2009 at 10:09 AM #

    I actually feel great about our substituition pattern this season with the glaring objection of Javi Gonzalez playing at all at this point of his playing days.

    Everyone wants to point out that Lowe has too much a pattern of NBA substituition, that our starters sit too long and get chilly legs (please…thats not anything to do w how these three close games).

    What I see is a drastically improved D over the previous two seasons-not even comparable when you consider that teams get alot of easy transition buckets off our frustrating TO’s. This team plays tougher defense, it’s in your face and there is much better double teaming, help, trapping then ever before. Part of it is the intro of some change up zone but you can argue that a big part of it is fresh legs and changing players that keep the opponents challenged.

    Duke just played really really well as the 2nd half went on offensively. I’m very impressed with Henderson – that’s someone we need to go PRO.

    Blocks on Zoubek!!! The Duke kids make a Z with their hands to revel in his dominance in the paint. I think CJ gave him the business once.

    Just go into the library court beat BC and 2-3 will keep you lurking in for the middle of the ACC pack.

  21. wufpup76 01/21/2009 at 10:50 AM #

    ^It would be nice if we could get a win at BC, but they are actually a terrible matchup for us

    With the type of effort displayed last night it can certainly be done, but they have Rice – who very well could set a new career high against us … I love the changing of defenses though, and we actually have some guys with length that can cause teams fits when we’re in a zone trap

    I’m hoping the staff comes up with an effective way to get the ball out of Rice’s hands on Saturday – trapping him as soon as he crosses halfcourt or something … anything … and poor Javi got torched by Rice last season playing man D so let’s not try that again

    I would rather Sanders, Jackson, and Tripani beat us than Rice … H*ll, if we could make Southern have to beat us we may even win … They are of course very physical, and we’ve never defended the flex well – either against BC or Maryland

    Get ’em Sid … Let’s conjure up some old style V “junk” defenses

    We’ll see what happens Saturday

  22. Rick 01/21/2009 at 12:55 PM #

    “The only complete players we have are McCauley and Costner, and they are both gone next yea”

    Costner has another year of eligibility. Is there something you know but are not telling us?

  23. JeremyH 01/21/2009 at 1:20 PM #

    Rick: people seem to think Costner will start his pro career in Europe next year.

  24. Rick 01/21/2009 at 1:46 PM #

    “Rick: people seem to think Costner will start his pro career in Europe next year.”

    I have heard that but BJD is saying it is a done deal.

  25. NCMike 01/23/2009 at 2:36 PM #

    Looks like we’re going to have to battle harder for last place this year.

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