DBR’s Take on the Duke/State Game

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“[Gerald Henderson is] a unique player in that he’s strong enough to put it on the floor and get by you and use his body, he can jump over you and he’s really knocking that jump shot down which makes him even tougher. You get up on him, he’s got that first step. He’s playing three or four. He can cause you a lot of problems as you saw tonight. He did exactly what a player of his caliber is supposed to do. He took over the game for a period there and that’s the one guy I talked about in pre-game to the media. He can change the game and he did it again tonight. That’s what he expects of himself and I’m sure that’s what his team expected. He did exactly what a leader is supposed to do. He took over.”

And that’s exactly what State doesn’t have. As admirable as McCauley and Costner can be, neither one is truly a leader. Last year, when they both basically sulked as J.J. Hickson proved to be a better player and took their minutes, and at any rate, neither of them can really alter State’s main flaw, because neither of them bring the ball up and neither is going to ever control it in the halfcourt game, even though McCauley is a more than adequately rounded big man.

It must be the most frustrating thing in the world for Lowe, who wore his big-game red jacket to Cameron. If you look back at his stats when he was at State, they were never overwhelming. Yet he was a superb leader for his team who got his guys to be steady and when they were in a close game hell would freeze over before he made a critical mistake. He was not just a good leader, he was an excellent leader.

He sits there and he is bound to see the mistakes coming, and he’s surely told his guys what to do and not to do. And they are effective for most of the game. But at the end, when his knowledge and experience should be most valuable, they simply can’t do what he has tried to teach them. They rush, they dribble too far, they try to make passes that are a stretch, and slowly, his team crumbles under the pressure and fails.

You can think back to any number of reasonable point guards in the past (or contemporaries for that matter), and they don’t have to be great ones, just good ones, and imagine them at State. How much better would they be? What about Terrell McIntyre? Bobby Frasor? T.J. Bannister? Charlie Ward? Keith Gatlin? Larry Drew II? For that matter, Sidney Lowe?

Just one steady guard who knew what to do in the clutch would make this team a viable tournament team. One steady guard and one reliably intelligent small forward could put them deep into the tournament.

For a competitor like Lowe, sitting and watching incompetence, when he sees the error almost every time, must just eat him alive. After this game and a number of close shaves this season, we have to say this: he’s staying in games despite a critical flaw in his team. We’d have to say that’s the mark of a good coach.

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105 Responses to DBR’s Take on the Duke/State Game

  1. Alpha Wolf 01/21/2009 at 1:01 PM #

    I can’t help but to wonder what record this team would have if a Julius Hodge type were on it.

  2. Rochester 01/21/2009 at 1:03 PM #

    I have to remind myself at times that Degand is going through his first ACC season. He played against some decent competition early last year before the injury, but as far as ACC intensity, he’s as raw as Mays.

  3. Rick 01/21/2009 at 1:05 PM #

    “The problem remains that everyone on our roster (except Ben and BC, who won’t be here next year) is pretty much a role player at best.”

    Second time I have heard you say this. Care to share why a junior will not be back?

  4. smfrank 01/21/2009 at 1:11 PM #

    We were outcoached in the last 8 minutes – that time frame started by putting in your 3rd string PG (Javi) alongside Dennis Horner, Ferguson, Smith & Thomas. Seriously, at 8 minutes in the game we are up by 5 & on the road (in Cameron), we have nothing remotely close to a leader on the floor. I’m not saying you can’t have a couple of these guys on the floor, but all 5?

    Where is Fells, Costner, or McCauley with this group? At least 1 if not 2 need to be in the game for the last 10 minutes, especially since all 3 were having pretty effective games.

    I understand rotations in the first half, but in the second half, its time to grow some balls, bust some ass, suck it up and stick to your guns.

  5. choppack1 01/21/2009 at 1:11 PM #

    Rochester – excellent point.

  6. jwrenn29 01/21/2009 at 1:15 PM #

    Wow that was a great article. I’m happy to hear they think that Sidney is a good coach. I TRULY want him to succeed, and I think he will if he can just get a point guard. Mays may be ok, if he wouldn’t dribble far into a corner late in the game. Experience may teach him, or at least I hope it does.

  7. jwrenn29 01/21/2009 at 1:17 PM #

    Does anyone else see a young Kelsey Weems in Degand? Full of speed, but out of control!

  8. JeremyH 01/21/2009 at 1:34 PM #

    “Wow that was a great article. I’m happy to hear they think that Sidney is a good coach. ”

    I don’t see any reason why a Dukie would complement our coach, unless they ultimately think he will take us no where. Also, saying we are one quality guard away from being a good team is perplexing, given we are in direct competition for Wall. Or maybe I have become way too cynical : )

  9. Wolf Dog 01/21/2009 at 1:34 PM #

    We did what most all teams do. We lost at Duke. We don’t get a home game against them this year. The great thing is that we seem to be getting better as the season goes on and Sid is getting players some PT so they will be more prepared next year. I thought JT played great when he was in the game. Lots of energy. Would like to see him get more playing time. We had no one that could come close to guarding Henderson except Fells and when he got in foul trouble it was all she wrote especially considering everything Duke shot went in for a 8 minute spell.

    I would have like to have seen Mayes play more but I can understand bringing him around slowly and I think Degand continues to improve. Javi looked slow. I thought Costner played a great game.

  10. Clarksa 01/21/2009 at 1:35 PM #

    ^you can add Cliff Crawford to that comparison as well…he was quick and showed flashes of brilliance…but was often to quick for the rest of the team.

  11. 61Packer 01/21/2009 at 1:40 PM #

    Lack of a decent leader, my foot. Exactly what it is that State basketball doesn’t have is a decent coaching staff. Haven’t had one for nearly 20 years now. I’m tired of the players being blamed for the program’s real shortcomings, POOR COACHING.

    Ok, we get Wall, we get Cousins, we get whoever, won’t matter. Until we have someone on the State bench who knows how to win and convey it to the players, it won’t matter.

    I’m sick of seeing our players being bashed and belittled from one end of this site to the other. I urge the coaches who are responsible for this mess to be man enough to step aside now for the sake of their alma mater and for these players who lay it all on the line game after game. They deserve better, so do we fans.

  12. foz 01/21/2009 at 1:50 PM #

    I think the key is on floor leadership. Look at the difference on the football team with Wilson playing versus Beck or Evans. Without Wilson, we were a pretty bad offensive team. With Wilson, we were fairly respectable. I don’t think anyone blamed our bad play without Wilson on O’Brien’s coaching ability. You can make the comparison yourself.

  13. happypackdad 01/21/2009 at 1:50 PM #

    If we get Wall & Cousins, I think you will see Sid as a MUCH better coach. Talent makes coaches look gooooooood.

  14. ChiefJoJo 01/21/2009 at 1:52 PM #

    What I took from the game:

    *Duke clearly has better players at 4/5 positions (McCauley being the exception) & that was the difference at the end
    *Henderson is a 1st team All ACC player… almost unguardable when he’s hitting jumpers from 20′
    *we outrebounded Duke on the offensive glass–a good sign given our recent struggles (GT, FSU)
    *our guys played hard, gave good effort on defense, & did not back down from what is always a tough environment (& Sid should get some credit for that)
    *I like this lineup: Mays, Fells, Thomas, Costner, McCauley or Smith… a balanced lineup of athletes, defenders, inside scorers, and shooters
    *I’m impressed by how the young guys played
    *Degand’s poor play is forcing Sid’s hand on Gonzalez (who shouldn’t be out there ideally)… he can’t play Mays all game as a frosh, but Degand isn’t up to the task either.. if Degand can reduces the TOs, Gonzalez might stay on the bench
    *Because of the PG situation, and how the young guys are playing (soild), I don’t blame Sid for playing 9-10 guys… there is no magic coaching subtitution formula & I can see legitimate situational roles for all the guys who have been playing

    From the article:

    “After this game and a number of close shaves this season, we have to say this: he’s staying in games despite a critical flaw in his team. We’d have to say that’s the mark of a good coach.”

    The article was right on, and the above quote is worth repeating. Clearly, though, Sid deserves 100% responsibility for not recruiting a decent PG into the program by year 3, especially when he was a PG and should know what to look for. Also, he arguably should have played the young guys more earlier in the season, instead of mostly in ACC play, but at least they are contributing and look like they belong.

    Finally, since we should have all known this was a 4-year project, so barring a complete meltdown like last season where the team quit at times, I think we need to let the season play out, shoot to bring in Wall, and have 2010 be the year of judgment on Sid (& Fowler). There’s nothing to be gained from mid-season “program assessments” after a bad loss.

  15. wufpup76 01/21/2009 at 1:58 PM #

    “i am perceiving an extreme lack of Xs and Os from sid when it comes down to the stretch of the game. if our players have the talent and will go up and maintain a lead thru a game, then how do we get OUT COACHED thru the last 7:15 of the game.”

    ^I think this is a fair argument. Last night marked the 5th loss of 6 where we *could* have either stayed in the game or outright won it without a very late second half collapse

    Talent level and leadership on the floor are undoubtedly killing us here – no argument there … But, at the same time this question has to be asked of Sidney as now it has happened for a 5th time this season

    This is not meant to disparage Sid; merely to say it’s a fair question to ask – and it’s up to Sidney and co. to answer it

    Of the 5 “collapses” however, I have a hard time putting last night’s more on Sidney … I think credit should go to Duke for what they did to us down the stretch

    Also, it is very fair to say if we did have a Julius Hodge or Anthony Grundy type take charge leader on this team we very well could be sitting with only 2 losses this season … But we don’t, and we’re not 🙁

    Still, I came away from last night’s game with encouragement and hope as opposed to despair and futility – which is always good … Probably the three things I was most proud of were our defense (in the first half), overall rebounding (special hat tip to Johnny Thomas), and aggressiveness on the offensive end of the court for the first 30 minutes … I believe Sidney has been preaching aggressiveness and the message may actually be sinking in … We’ll see – who knows really

  16. statered 01/21/2009 at 1:58 PM #

    61Packer – idiocy. If you cannot see we have needed an upgrade in talent then you know *&^( about basketball. That is not bashing the current players, it is just reality. I love our players to death but the sad fact is that most of them would be more than capable role players on a really good team, not starters.

  17. skywalkerdt 01/21/2009 at 2:00 PM #

    First 61Packer- most of the guys played very well last night but it is hard to say the coaches just so so we suck. Most of the guys on that staff have had measurable success.

    2) i am probably one of the people that has thought the most of fells. sid’s first year it came out that the coaches kept asking him why he was afraid to be the best player on the court. if he could ever put it together for more than a game at a time he is one of the best in the acc. problem is he can’t. the tie last night was broken in duke’s favor after fells came back in and turned it over on back to back posessions. so don’t tell me we just needed the seniors all back in earlier because courtney was not all there last night.

    3) watch out for mays as he is learning more and more how to play this game he is becoming perhaps the best pg we have, you see better use of the actual sets when he is there, he is generally in control, and he is not as slow as javi. remember how bad justin gainey was in his first conference game? he then became the only player ever to log 40 minutes in 4 back to back acc tourney games.

  18. travelwolf 01/21/2009 at 2:02 PM #

    i was pleasantly surprised by the duke game… but, this is one game. if we keep up being this tough, we’ll end up with 6-7 ACC wins this year – i won’t be disappointed. as i’ve said since day 1 of the season, just wait until the season is over to assess our coach. but, we do need to recruit a capable point guard (which I believe we have arriving next year).

  19. choppack1 01/21/2009 at 2:11 PM #

    skywalkerdt – Fells was playing an excellent game until he picked up his 3rd foul. I think he was in a funk after that.

    Regarding Mays – I don’t know why he didn’t see any meaningful minutes in the second half, but when he did, he looked awful. I see some parallels between him and Justin Gainey, but he’s not getting the same kind of experience right now that Justin got.

    I’m curious in general why folks have ruled out conditioning as a possible culprit for the collapses. We know that Degand has a bad wheel, we know that Johnny Thomas has one too, Javi has been banged up as well…I’m just wondering if maybe our guys aren’t ready to expend that 40 minutes as they would be if a) everyone were healthy or b) if they were conditioned properly.

    I also do have to throw in some concern for the “red” team that was once again on the floor in second half last night. It’s important to remember that this line-up did well vs. FSU – but I believe it had Mays (instead of Javi) – and well, it wasn’t Cameron indoor and it wasn’t against the defensive pressure of Duke. Hopefully, Mays isn’t hurt or wasn’t benched for something outside of b’ball performance.

  20. skywalkerdt 01/21/2009 at 2:15 PM #

    problem is courtney is a senior, 3 or even 4 fouls should not bother a senior

  21. primacyone 01/21/2009 at 2:16 PM #

    I completely agree with the DBR Article.

    I don’t know what else to say that I haven’t already said on here somewhere before. But I will say this.

    Last night these words came loudly and spontaneously out of my mouth while watching the game with my wife:

    “This is a heck of a lot better than anything Herb Sendeck put on the floor at Cameron Indoor during his 10 years. I’m liking this.”

  22. BassPacker 01/21/2009 at 2:21 PM #

    Wow, Can we get a poll here SFN? Seriously, I’d like to see how many think the problem with NCSU basketball is A: coaching (Sid) or B: team (talent). OK, I guess “C” could be Admin (Fowler) but we are talking baketball woes so lets leave it at A or B.

  23. ryebread 01/21/2009 at 2:37 PM #

    Good read and one that I agree with. Sad that the Duke Basketball Report is less biased than many of our own fans.

    Unfortunately, we’ll continue to struggle until we bring in the talent that will mitigate these glaring holes. That’s why I continue to say that recruiting is the only way out of this mess (regardless of who is the coach). We as fans need to facilitate this as much as possible.

  24. PAJ 01/21/2009 at 2:42 PM #

    The third foul of Fells was just typical of what happens with him. One bad play or tough call goes against him and he’s done. He plays his best games when he makes his first shot. Otherwise forget about it.

    Sid coached a good game last night.

  25. Astral Rain 01/21/2009 at 2:54 PM #

    As for the problems with State- I blame the lost recruiting year for some of it, Sid for a little bit, but I think he is getting better- I mean the team is playing harder this year, and some of it is mismatched talent.

    If the PG comes, or Mays can become a good one (he’s already adequate), things will be alright.

    I think worst case scenario if we stick with Sid: we’ll be an inconsistent tourney team that makes Elite 8’s occasionally and flames out in the first round to lower seeds just as much.

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