BJD’s Revised and Extended 1/4/09 Basketball Program Thoughts

After yesterday’s predictable, yet still somehow heartbreaking loss to Florida, all that remains is ACC play (barring a shocking loss to NC Central, which is currently 0-16 and 347th out of 347 teams in the Sagarin ratings). Here is a run down of what we do and don’t know:

1) NC State will compete with, but rarely beat, midrange opponents. We have “comps” to evaluate here – Davidson, Marquette, and Florida (currently 20, 31, and 33 in Sagarin, respectively). These are the teams that will compete for NCAA berths, but probably not with anything higher than a 6 or 7 seed. Who is in this category? I would say Miami (27), Maryland (32), Virginia Tech (74), and Florida State (45). The Hokies’ Sagarin is well below the other three, but VT has a clear pattern of poor December play followed up by significantly improved ACC performance. Wolfpack nation’s collective heart thanks the Almighty that we only play 5 games against the ACC’s second tier (home and away vs. Miami, home only vs. Florida State and Maryland, away only vs. Virginia Tech). BJD’s Predicted Wins: 1 or 2

2) We have no idea how badly the elite teams will beat NC State. Simply put, we haven’t played anybody in the class of the ACC’s first tier: UNC (1), Clemson (4), Duke (3), or Wake Forest (8). Did you know that the ACC boasts three of the top four teams in the Sagarin ratings? You do now. We are extremely lucky to play Duke and Clemson only once, and each time on the road – a home game would be a wasted opportunity, since we would lose 99 times out of 100 to these teams regardless of location. The real mystery here is how badly the Pack loses – could be by 10, 20, or 40. Our only prayer against UNC is mercy, which Roy Williams (who endearingly treats us like a hated rival) is not likely to dish out. Your one ray of hope is the 2/11 home date against Wake Forest – I’m still not convinced that the Deacons are that good. BJD’s Predicted Wins: 0 or 1

3) Thank God for scheduling within the lower tier. Misery loves company, and the 80th-rated Wolfpack has some this year: Boston College (60), Virginia (102), and Georgia Tech (114). Much like I expect VT’s to play above its current rating in ACC play, I expect BC to perform worse – there’s no reason to expect the Eagles to be any better than they were last year (and their schedule has been almost as weak as ours). These loveable losers constitute NC State’s peer group. Thanks to wretched scheduling, NC State hasn’t played anyone in this range (the closest being #145 East Carolina). Extrapolating what we’ve seen so far, and considering the fact that the Pack plays all Tier Three foes at home (plus road games at BC and GT), we can cautiously project winning most of these games. BJD’s Predicted Wins: 3 or 4

4) Overall, the NIT is (as it has always been) NC State’s ceiling. Applying my model, you could get anything from 4 to 7 ACC wins, although I don’t expect the full best or worst case scenario to happen. Thus, you get a 5-11 (NIT/CBI bubble) or 6-10 (solid NIT) ACC record. The Pack has no shot at the post-season with a 4-12 or worse ACC record, and Sidney Lowe would not be positioned well for the crucial 2009-10 season.

5) Timing is everything. This would be a good year to play UNC early again, and get that embarrassment over with. But we don’t “get” to play the Holes until January 31. Why, you ask? Because NC State’s only playable off guard is Trevor Ferguson, projected to miss 3-6 weeks after the 12/22 game against Marquette. That puts his return somewhere between January 12 and February 2. Between those 2 dates, NC State plays six ACC games, including winnable games against Florida State (home), Georgia Tech (home), Boston College (away), and Miami (home). Needless to say, there is a big difference in starting ACC play 3-4 rather than 1-6 or 0-7.

6) Go back and re-read my “baby steps” post for my suggestions on how to evaluate this basketball season. For the more pessimistic folks out there, I will acknowledge that a collapse is more likely than a “great leap forward” beyond the baby steps of progress that I currently see and expect.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

08-09 Basketball NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe

108 Responses to BJD’s Revised and Extended 1/4/09 Basketball Program Thoughts

  1. hball57 01/04/2009 at 7:02 PM #

    I think that this was a well thought out analysis, I just don’t agree the grouping of the teams. first I am not convinced that Clemson belongs in the second group. I would add Clemson to the first and I think we could get 4-5 wins out of those 6 games. So you project the ACC wins between 3 and 7, I project the wins being between 6 and 10.

    Thanks for the thoughts.

  2. Noah 01/04/2009 at 7:05 PM #

    Noah, you obviously are already in a position to not give a crap about NC State basketball, as your post states clearly. If you don’t care, then why are you posting to this thread?

    Stockholm Syndrome?

  3. McLovin 01/04/2009 at 7:46 PM #

    Down goes Carolina

  4. Wulfpack 01/04/2009 at 7:49 PM #

    So much for BC in the second tier. That’s one scrappy team and Rice will win a few for them himself. Pretty good team there. Way to go EAGLES!!!! Now go Hokies.

  5. redfred2 01/04/2009 at 7:51 PM #

    The reasons we should allow more time and show patience are grounded in PURE FACT, AND they have been listed about a million times on this site already.

    1) Lost/gave away almost an entire class of new recruits. One year gone.

    2) Then, and without having those new recruits, Lowe gets a late start on the recruiting trail for the NEXT class of recruits because of circumstances that are out of his control.

    3) Players not coming back to the program. You can come with your own reasons for that, I already have mine.

    4) NC State, get that, NC State hired a coach without any recruiting experience and without any ties to HS kids/HS coaches. Again, out of Sidney lowe’s control.

    5) Lowe inherited a program that was outclassed by it’s closest neighbors and lifelong rivals. FACT. At best, he was given an ineffective machine with many missing parts. The two biggest being a missing soul and an identity to build upon. And yet he’s still getting looks from some the best HS talent available.

    Shall I go on?

  6. choppack1 01/04/2009 at 7:53 PM #

    If you are looking for a silver lining – it has to be that in our 3 losses, we’ve come out well-prepared and ready to play. It hasn’t worked out so far – but we keep it up – I think we’ll have some good wins.

    I’d also say that I think last year the team forgot how to win. They’ve got to learn how to do it again.

  7. SaccoV 01/04/2009 at 7:54 PM #

    Talk about your mindblowing ironies … BC gives us hope and discouragement in one fail swoop!!!!

  8. SaccoV 01/04/2009 at 7:56 PM #

    Also, is it just me, or is Al Skinner the most underrated coach in this league? That guy looked at the end of that game like he fully expected to win. No one else, including myself, gave BC much of a chance in this one.

  9. BSIE80 01/04/2009 at 7:57 PM #

    Noah,
    Should UNC fire Roy?
    He has all the talent, so he must have got outcoached tonite.

  10. wufpup76 01/04/2009 at 8:02 PM #

    HELLO BC!!!!!!!!!!!

    Well done!!!

    I still thought they would lose even when the lead got up to 15 … didn’t think it would be allowed to happen … but it did!!!

    “First team to go undefeated all the way since the ’76 Hoosiers” – NOPE

    “It’s the Holes and everyone else this year” – NOPE

    “Well, we know at least one participant in this season’s Final Four, guarenteed!” – NOPE

    Nothing is guarenteed, and when teams have to actually earn it sometimes funny things happen

    What say ye, media Holes apologists?

  11. DFMo 01/04/2009 at 8:07 PM #

    >>Take a poor fit between players and new playing style and magnify it by losing 6 scholarship players in year one and what else could we expect?

    OK, explain the “new playing style” to me. Sure, its not weave and heave but its not so radically different that the players can’t adapt.

    Once “Sid gets his players in here (is that next year after 2-3 classes?), is the playing style going to change or more of what we see now just with different players? Are we gonna start pressing? More transition? I suspect just as much half court set plays.

    wufpup76, that was a great post on the this vs this vs this and so accurately summed up with “Rinse and repeat next weekend after the Clemson game”. Had to explain to the wife what I was laughing about.

  12. wufpup76 01/04/2009 at 8:09 PM #

    “Also, is it just me, or is Al Skinner the most underrated coach in this league? That guy looked at the end of that game like he fully expected to win. No one else, including myself, gave BC much of a chance in this one.”

    Absolutely agree here. I’m certainly not a BC fan, but what Al Skinner accomplishes there has made me give him and that program a lot of begruding respect. And they beat the Holes – at their place!!!

    Also, pretty funny comment about “mindblowing ironies” …

    Well, Chapel Hill is tied for last place in the ACC for at least a few days … God bless America

  13. Packster 01/04/2009 at 8:10 PM #

    To put recruiting in perspective…this is how far we have to go: V got Rodney Monroe and Chris Corchiani in the same year. We are no where near that kind of recruiting ability yet.

  14. howlie 01/04/2009 at 8:26 PM #

    I may be back later in the season slinging frustration, but at this point in the season–and throughout any season–ALL I want, and expect, is to see “The Pack” scraping, hustling, and giving all they have on the field or on the court.
    I even hate it when we win and play poorly {although I don’t mind a ‘W’).
    Which is to say, I’m mildly pleased with what I see with what we have to work with. The frustration Sid MAY have had after the FL game was that we played about as well as we could–and still lost. But for me, that’s all I ask–to see hard play and intensity… and I’ll be satisfied with whatever results come our way.

    Like I said, if we do that and lose 16 in a row, I’ll probably change my tune… but right now I don’t mind seeing great hustle, comraderie, and coming very, very to winning on the last possession of the game.

  15. Wulfpack 01/04/2009 at 8:45 PM #

    Big news to report outta BC, and no it’s not just the upset over UNC.

    Coach Jags is believed to be scheduled to interview for the Jets job tomorrow. BC has said that if he goes through with it, which he plans to do, then he will be fired and Steve Logan will be named the Eagles’ head coach.

  16. 61Packer 01/04/2009 at 8:54 PM #

    After watching tonight’s BC win at Chapel Hill, I don’t feel so bad anymore. Maybe there’s hope for us yet. Way to go, Coach Skinner!

  17. wufpup76 01/04/2009 at 9:00 PM #

    “Coach Jags is believed to be scheduled to interview for the Jets job tomorrow.”

    ^Wow, that is some development if it comes to fruition … I would’ve never seen that coming

    The interview is surprising enough, but if he’s let go that would be something

  18. Pack1998 01/04/2009 at 9:07 PM #

    – BJD95 – I agree 100% with your projections.

    – Yes, we need to accept growing pains with Lowe. Name another coach who had great success early in his FIRST college coaching job (job meaning asst or head, may be a good data dive).

    – The thing to watch with Lowe is his own attitude and also his own ability to learn, adjust, and improve. I think we are still seeing that in him and hopefully that continues.

    – More tactical:

    1.) I’d really like to see the guys play more intense defense through the duration of the game. Could be an opportunity to readjust the staff next summer and add a defensive expert.

    2.) Our best gameplan to create wins is the slow down, deliberate pace, starting the offense through the inside players; same plan as 2006-2007. Just slowly build a lead, own the pace, and take high % shots. That takes a physical PG who can get to places on the court against man defense. Degand can do that, Mays can a little, Javi just can’t. I think you could run the point through McAuley or Costner if you really had to, adding Smith as the other inside player.

  19. Trip 01/04/2009 at 9:13 PM #

    We just need to give the recording of the BC vs Carolina game to every player on the team and tell them to watch it 100 times. What a game.

    We are 9-3 and that’s exactly what we expected. Let’s see what happens in ACC play.

  20. Sw0rdf1sh 01/04/2009 at 9:17 PM #

    How fitting….on both counts.

    Great game for the Eagles, and a needed loss for UNC. You have to score points if you are going to beat the Heels, and BC did so.

    Regarding the BC Football coaching situation:

    This is pretty interesting on many different points for the coaching position at BC. I really think this is a fabulous out for Jags, “The Successor” as Observer College would call him….and keep his coaching skills from being exposed.

    You see, as the cupboard is starting to appear bare, the recruiting is taking a nose dive…and the chance to make money off the charade that was created in TOB’s aftermath is now.

    – Recruiting class is currently ranked 79th
    – 12 verbals
    – 7 have not received another BCS program offer
    – (11-3), (9-5), continuing downward spiral…
    – $ talks and BS walks
    – analyst and fans think this is one of the worst recruiting classes
    – Pack stole Cato-Bishop out from under their noses

    Jags better hope to impress if he does take the job. If not, would anyone like to start speculation of where he might land?

  21. highstick 01/04/2009 at 9:25 PM #

    Life is wonderful@! Tarholes lose!!

  22. turfpack 01/04/2009 at 9:27 PM #

    As a Carowhina fan told me today-When we go 16-0 in the conference
    and beat state,wake and duke by 30 we may give ya’ll some simply and let ya’ll lose only by 15 in the ACCT.
    I though he was full of shit-now I know he is-THANKS BC!!!!

  23. wufpup76 01/04/2009 at 9:28 PM #

    Just read the ESPN story on the Jagggggs situation …

    Gene DeFilippo (Boston College AD) really comes off as a raging egomaniac with the way he treated Tom O’Brien and now this situation where he’s threatening poor widdle Jagggs

    I guess you could say that DeFilippo has some guts and tries to stick up for BC though … still comes across as a real a**hole

  24. Rochester 01/04/2009 at 9:51 PM #

    Can anyone in the Chapel Hill vicinity confirm rumors that the Harris Teeter has run out of Kleenex and pacifiers tonight? It really tugged on my heartstrings to see those poor kids in the homo blue body paint weeping in the stands.

    Might not make a whole lot of difference, but I’m glad we don’t play UNC this week. I think they just got their wake up call. Great effort by BC, especially Rice and Sanders.

    And BC, without a great front line, exposed the Heels as weak rebounders. BC didn’t make good on many of their second, and third, and fourth attempts, but they did grab a ton of offensive boards, especially in the first half.

  25. BJD95 01/04/2009 at 10:07 PM #

    Al Skinner is an incredible coach. There is no rational reason for BC to be able to stay within 30 of the Holes in the Nose Dome. Well done, indeed.

    That said, I still wouldn’t be surprised to see UNC finish 15-1. And no, this game doesn’t give me hope for the Pack against them. BC is a guard-oriented team, and can withstand (even exploit) the Holes’ defensive pressure.

    BC football, on the other hand, looks headed towards Springer territory. The transition may be slower than expected, but they will eventually be the Duke of the Atlantic division.

    More painful “what could have been” material. Under Mike Montgomery, Cal just won their 7th straight tonight – a 10 point win over HWSNBN.

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