Stepping into basketball season by stepping into the past (Updated 5pm)

08-09 Basketball General NCS Basketball Tradition101

Today is the day.

Monday, December 22, 2008.

Today is the day that we naturally step into elevated interest in the 2008-2009 basketball season.  You can almost say that today is the day that we really kick off our attention to the season as the Wolfpack will host Top 25 ranked Marquette in the RBC Center.

The Wolfpack has done and an adequate job of holding serve in the early part of the season en route to establishing a 7-1 record against soft competition while squandering a great opportunity to beat Top 25 ranked Davidson a couple of weeks ago.  Tonight’s 7pm game televised on ESPNU marks a legitimate opportunity for State to elevate into ‘NCAA Tournament relevancy’ with an eye on a January 3rd visit to Florida and the start of the ACC season.

Due to the opponent, tonight’s game represents almost as much about the heritage of the NC State program as it does the importance of the current season.  Marquette, then coached by the legendary Al McGuire, was the Wolfpack’s opponent and victim in the 1974 NCAA National Championship game.

The following are some random bytes:

  • Marquette’s roster ranks #315th in the country in average height  but has done an admirable job rebounding.  We will get an obvious opportunity to see if NC State is a better rebounding team this year than we have been the last two seasons.
  • NC State plans on honoring  the 1973-1974 National Championship team tonight.  (Link) 
  • I can’t make tonight’s game for holiday & family reasons that are innately obvious to everyone in the world except the people who are responsible for NC State’s basketball schedule…so, I will be very interested in the reports about this ‘honoring’.  If this is anything like last year’s God awful embarrassment of the 1983 ‘honoring’ then I will actually be glad that I didn’t invest more time into the event in addition to the money for my lifetime rights and season tickets.  I am not going to say more about this as you can click here for a detailed commentary.
  • If NC State were healthy, then I would be calling for a Wolfpack win tonight.  This one just feels like a good night for the Pack.  But, the lingering injuries and those injuries’ impact to playing time of four of our top seven players – Degand, Gonzalez, Fells & Smith – throws too large of a wrench into my plans.  If it weren’t for those injuries, I’d be referencing the Pack’s win over Michigan in 2006 for some similarities of the positive vibes.
  • Marquette is led by strong backcourt play and surprisingly strong rebounding that compensates for weaker offensive play on the post.  This is why the injuries to Degand, Fells and Gonzalez are so vital to the Wolfpack’s chances.  
  • If you need another barometer to monitor tonight then pay attention to the officiating.  If our big men get fair treatment and we get to the line in a quantity that is proportional to our attempts down low then we still have a good chance.  If the officials decide that teams in red don’t deserve the same treatment in the post that teams in blue deserve then our chances reduce significantly.
  • Can I ask the natural question of why NC State continues to annually schedule the ONLY decent home non-conference games on odd weeknights around the holidays when it is difficult for fans to attend and when the students are on break?  Does anybody realize that many lifetime rights holders live somewhere other than Raleigh?  I honestly don’t think that our department could TRY to pick a worse way to leverage our home court for both the team or the fans.
  • As much as I don’t like when/how this game was scheduled, I love the fact that this game was scheduled.  Coach Lowe does a fantastic job of mixing the program’s rich tradition into the current landscape of college basketball.  Playing a Marquette gets us a great blend of the two.  You can see our original entry at the time this game was announced by clicking here. 

The following is a “Gamenight” preview from a fantasy sports site I found…

As the non-conference season enters its last few weeks, a number of teams are still hoping to strengthen their case for an at-large bid, and two such teams will meet in Raleigh when #45 Marquette (9-2) faces #49 North Carolina State (7-1).

Marquette’s two losses have been fairly decisive, as Dayton and Tennessee both beat the Golden Eagles by double digits. Their only strong win came at home over Wisconsin, and it’s easily better than any win North Carolina St. has recorded. The Wolfpack’s only loss came against Davidson, as Stephen Curry led a strong Wildcats charge down the stretch to erase a halftime lead.

[snip]

While Marquette hasn’t been that impressive, NC St.’s schedule has been very weak, and a difficult game like this one is not a great time to be depending on a freshman point guard in his second career start. While the Wolfpack will try to take advantage  of Marquette’s lack of size, I’ll take the Eagles for a narrow road win.

…and this link will take you to a recent article focused on Marquette’s inside deficiencies.

And that’s one of the reasons Tennessee’s Wayne Chism went bananas on the Golden Eagles earlier this week and finished with a career-high 26 points and 11 rebounds in the Vols’ 80-68 victory over Marquette. You see, Chism is 6-9, 242 pounds and a legitimate high-major big man. Marquette has nobody who fits that description. Bruce Pearl noticed it on film and exploited it on the court.

"Wayne had a favorable matchup," Tennessee’s coach said, "and he took advantage of it."

So the question is simple: How many more will take advantage of it?

Lastly, the following are some some interesting items across the internet today related to both this event and the 1974 NC State-Marquette game:

  • Marquette had an unbelievably quick 2-2-1 full court trapping defense that was the bread and butter of the team….Walton and Tatum on the front line…speed and quickness…MU was able to generate pts off of this defense…but not vs NCSTATE….I never knew why until I worked at Rick Majerus’ basketball camps a few yrs later…and I heard him lecture about top PG play and how to beat a trapping press like the 2-2-1 MU utilized so successfully.

    Said Rick, “The key to breaking a trapping press is to do what Monte Towe did to us in the ’74 title game. He did something I had never seen before. He dribbled into our trap and when we sprung it, Towe kept his dribble and dribbled backwards where he had come from…with our front line our of position after committing on the trap…and our back 3 guys already committed to zone guarding the back cutters, Towe would make a crisp pass to the open cutter and they beat our press every time…We were really counting on that press to give the 5-5 Towe some problems. But it did not. Towe was one of the top PGs we had ever faced.”

    Al blew the national championship game…it would have been hard…but MU could have beaten NCState….but this game was forgotten when Al won the final game in ’77…but this game…and the game vs. Ind in ’76 when Al blew the game with a late T….and the Kansas State game on St Patrick’s Day in March, ’77 when MU fell behind by 14 but turned the tide….cut it to 7 and Al sensing that KState was choking grabbed his neck tie to signal the choke to his team and the refs thought he meant that the refs were choking so they T’d him up…and KS made the FTs and went ahead by 10…AL sat down and told Hank…"If we lose this game…I am done in Milwaukee."

    Luckily for Al, MU came back and won by 1….and MU beat Wake Forest…UNCC and then NC for the national title…

    You may enjoy this this thread

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    08-09 Basketball General NCS Basketball Tradition

    101 Responses to Stepping into basketball season by stepping into the past (Updated 5pm)

    1. turfpack 12/22/2008 at 9:31 PM #

      A Carolina asshole called the house and left a message -We will beat ya’ll by 40pts -ya’ll are horrible(YES HE IS A WALMART UNC FAN -HE AND NOONE IN HIS FAMILY ATTENDED UNC-I WORK WITH THIS ASSHOLE.)

    2. rbwolf 12/22/2008 at 9:31 PM #

      Hey I”m new to the site and I just watched the game and I belive we will not beat a top 25 team this year. Hell i am hoping we win 3 games in the acc. I see last place again this year.

    3. sholtzma 12/22/2008 at 9:45 PM #

      We look better than last year, but this team is weak. We need much higher bball IQ on the team, much better guards, better athleticism, and some real depth. I view this year the way I viewed this year in football: let’s just see if we can play as a team, play better fundamentally, and play with confidence. So far, I am okay with where we are this year. And remember, Brown and Woods (sp?) will provide major help next year on the perimeter, where we are sorely lacking. Hint to Wall: want to start??

    4. Packster 12/22/2008 at 9:54 PM #

      We all love Sid…..but I was in absolute disbelief when I saw Costner inbounding the ball on the last play of the game. Very bad coaching decision. Mac did an amazing job but it shouldn’t have been up to him. Also….I agree that the subs were in WAY too long in the 2nd half.

    5. BJD95 12/22/2008 at 9:59 PM #

      I’m not really mad about the coaching (except for Degand being in the game on the last defensive possession). We just aren’t a good team. Period.

      We’ve yet to beat a good team, or lose to a bad one. The ceiling for this team has always been the NIT, and that’s what the current level of performance will achieve.

      Just think about this – Trevor Ferguson is the best guard on our team, and it’s not even close. Trevor. Ferguson.

    6. Greywolf 12/22/2008 at 10:01 PM #

      “Why have Degand and Ferg playing DEFENSE at the end of the game when they were burned EVERY TIME THEY TOUCHED THE BALL?”

      It’s defense without the ball, Rick, it’s offense when Degand and Ferg touch the ball.

    7. Greywolf 12/22/2008 at 10:04 PM #

      I see the same ones of us who thought at 2-6 the football team would not win another game, are expressing their optimism again in December.

    8. wufpaxno1 12/22/2008 at 10:05 PM #

      Not disagreeing with much of anything that has been said here to this point. But you really can’t hang that last turnover on Ben Mac, once he got into trouble no one came to help out. As well as BC played tonight, one of the replays of the trap on Ben gave a nice view of BC standing at the top of the key watching. BC would be so much of a better player if he learned to move without the ball.

      The really sad part of it is that it doesn’t seem as if anyone on the floor for the Pack seems to know what to do beyond the set play, if it breaks down, no one improvises or picks up the slack. Our lack of floor leadership and initiative is going to kill us. Sometimes I wonder if Sid is not over managing his players from the sidelines, they just don’t seem to react on their own when they need to.

    9. Rochester 12/22/2008 at 10:05 PM #

      Sid is going to have to recruit so well that he has good enough players that it won’t matter who he puts on the floor. Right now he needs to recognize his strongest lineups and give them a chance.

      I too was befuddled by the decision to have Costner inbound the ball. Granted with .4 seconds left there wasn’t enough time for anything, and Ben got the ball up and in about as fast as anyone could have, and that was too late. But still, get that ball to the hot hand. And we should have been feeding him the entire second half. He shouldn’t have come out of that game except for maybe about a minute or two in the second half. Pull him a minute before a TV timeout to maximize his breather, then get him back in. He scored 24 points and had 8 boards in 32 minutes. Horner had 0 and 1 in 8 minutes. This is your brain. This is your brain with Dennis Horner in the game. Any questions?

    10. highstick 12/22/2008 at 10:09 PM #

      Jeez, even the announcers said that Duke and Carolina should not take this State team lightly since they aren’t the same as last year!

      I didn’t see enough of the game to even know who they were, but one was a Dookie, I think. If Marquette is a No. 25, then maybe we will make it. But, frankly Marquette isn’t a No. 25!

    11. ClassOf95 12/22/2008 at 10:09 PM #

      Yeah, guard play looks like it is going to be the Achilles heel. Especially on defense.

    12. LRM 12/22/2008 at 10:11 PM #

      Dear Santa,

      All I want for Christmas is a point guard.

      There’s an extra cookie in it for you.

      LRM

    13. Rochester 12/22/2008 at 10:15 PM #

      “But you really can’t hang that last turnover on Ben Mac, once he got into trouble no one came to help out. As well as BC played tonight, one of the replays of the trap on Ben gave a nice view of BC standing at the top of the key watching.”

      This is spot on. There were several times when Ben had the ball and you know he could have passed it out to someone streaking down the lane–but no one came streaking down the lane. They stayed out on the perimeter and Ben got stuffed. His quick passes out of traffic are beautiful, but when everyone stands there and he gets stuck holding the ball for more than three seconds it’s all over.

      I’m not going to go that pessimistic on this team right now. But we need to give Mays enough playing time to develop. He’s got a chance to become a good guard for us. There’s no sense wasting minutes on the guys who can’t.

      We’ll hang tough and win games against teams who don’t have the backcourt depth Marquette had. And teams that have three stud guards will beat us. It’s the same old song we’ve heard for years. If we could sneak Bennerman back onto the roster we might have a chance.

    14. Alpha Wolf 12/22/2008 at 10:17 PM #

      “Just think about this – Trevor Ferguson is the best guard on our team, and it’s not even close. Trevor. Ferguson.”

      Kind of makes you shake your head, doesn’t it.

      Mays is coming on, though. Watch for him to get more and more time as the year progresses. Some of these guys need to sit, permanently.

    15. choppack1 12/22/2008 at 10:29 PM #

      At least we’re playing hard. I saw some good things tonight, but I continue to be baffled by the choices our staff makes in line-up selection.

      I think we were well prepared and that usually gets you pretty far – and it did tonight. Unfortunately, our guys always seem to make those little key plays that turn a bigger lead into a smaller won – and that turns wins into losses.

      Oh well, our current situation reminds me of the first 5 years of HWSBN teams. The team plays hard, but doesn’t know how to win games and rarely wins the ones they need to, to win these games.

    16. wufpup76 12/22/2008 at 10:34 PM #

      Tough, disappointing loss … we were in control of the game until about the final 5-8 minutes

      We really lost the game before James exploded on us … Turnovers just absolutely killed us … It shouldn’t have been close enough so that James could’ve picked us off

      The right defense was called on the last shot – Ben and Farnold to trap high and get the ball out of James’ hands … Unfortunately, Farnold stepped the wrong way and there goes the trap and the game when James hit the shot

      We had looked pretty good against zone defenses coming into this game but played soft against it tonight … We especially had trouble w/ their 1-3-1, which was disappointing considering how much we had already seen it this season … They deserve credit for turning us over, but plenty were unforced … All the stats were in our favor, save for turnovers … Just way too many opportunities for them when we could’ve been pulling away

      Mays played ok for a true freshman, Farnold had his best performance of the season – but we’re in tough shape at point guard … Hopefully Mays will continue to grow … Poor Javi just didn’t have it after his injury … Ben had an off night, but don’t be too hard on him … Trevor is capable of playing better D, he’s actually a pretty decent defender when the ball is away – it’s his on-ball defense that really needs work

      Brandon was the best player on the court tonight – no question … James was the most clutch, but Brandon was the best … In addition to 24 and 8, he also had 2 blocks and 2 charges taken … Maybe people can stop skewering him so badly for a couple of games

      If you want something to be encouraged about, consider that we didn’t play that well at ALL (save for Brandon) and still should’ve won … Eliminate just 5 of the turnovers tonight and we probably win by 6 pts. or more – and plenty of guys turned the ball over other than the point guards – so all the blame can’t go on them

      Go Pack

    17. BassPacker 12/22/2008 at 10:35 PM #

      Just got back from the game, have to agree with most post here, coaching lost this game……….period. We are not Carolina, we cannot pull our starting five for lengths of time when the “RED” team kills us. I’m all for giving starters a blow for that last 8 minute run but do it one or two at a time. Costner was hot and sat on the bench long stretches in the second half. The bright spot there is Tracy Smith really plays hard. Sid has to come out of that 11 man rotation, play your best five with 2 or three off bench.
      Marquette really exposed our biggest weakness, no guard play. Some predict we will go 8-8 in ACC play, I just don’t see it unless Santa delivers a point guard.

    18. Dogbreath 12/22/2008 at 10:38 PM #

      I predict Gonzo transfers to W&L at the end of this season.

    19. wufpup76 12/22/2008 at 10:42 PM #

      “As well as BC played tonight, one of the replays of the trap on Ben gave a nice view of BC standing at the top of the key watching.”

      Sidney said flatly in postgame comments that the idea was to feed it to Ben down low and then swing it to Brandon for an open shot … Brandon was the primary shot taker on those posessions … It’s up to the point guard (Farnold, in this case) to help out or cut when the low post is doubled … Also, Ben held onto the ball for way too long on that last turnover

    20. Gene 12/22/2008 at 10:48 PM #

      Y’all do realize, we had six scholarship players two years ago. Unless a basketball team pulls a in super class of 5-6 players, ala Wake Forest, they aren’t going to turn around quickly.

      We’ll just have to wait and see how the 2009 / 2010 classes unfold.

      On the bright side rebounding wasn’t a problem. If we can get turnovers under control and play smart basketball we should be doing much better in March.

      It’ll be interesting to see how well Mays improves. We have better depth / talent than last year. Harris and Ferguson’s improved play is a part of it.

      We haven’t had a good clutch player, since Grundy played for us. Hopefully someone can step up and the team learns from this loss.

      We won some ugly OOC games last year, against good teams, like Villanova and Davidson on last second shots / free throw attempts, but it didn’t mean much come conference play. I’m not going to throw in the towel because we lost two games we could’ve won by last second shots.

      Good teams win these close games, but really bad teams don’t get into a position to hang around at the end. We aren’t a good team, but we can at least get to mediocre.

      I really do hope we can get the rotation fixed. Subbing 5 players doesn’t seem to help matters, because the second units only offensive option is Smith and eventually teams will figure that out and make sure he doesn’t touch the ball.

    21. JEOH2 12/22/2008 at 10:52 PM #

      I’ve been an avid reader of this site for over a year now. It’s one of my daily destinations especially during the school year and the basketball and football seasons. So basically, I’m just telling everyone that I’m new to this…

      Watching tonight’s game was one of the more frustrating NC State sporting experiences since, well…the Davidson game…where we either lose our passion or play in an unintelligent manner…

      The point that stood out the most to me in this game was when we fluctuated between 3-7 point leads during the early-to-mid portion of the 2nd half. Not only were our most effective players benched, but the amount of turnovers (I believe there was a stretch where we turned the ball over 4 times in a row) were ridiculous. To me, that was a period in which we could’ve taken a double-digit lead with solid defensive play. I saw nothing of Marquette that says we couldn’t have blown them off the court. Great guard play sure, but there were numerous times where our defense appeared to have them exactly where we wanted them, taking tough or bad shots…

      We can have a successful year, we can make noise in a weakened ACC (with only 3 “unbeatable” teams…Duke, WF, & UNC)…but it is going to take some consistency…from Costner, McCauley, Fells but from our guards more then any other…

    22. Alpha Wolf 12/22/2008 at 10:58 PM #

      “Oh well, our current situation reminds me of the first 5 years of HWSBN teams. The team plays hard, but doesn’t know how to win games and rarely wins the ones they need to, to win these games.”

      I was gong to mention that but decided not to. It does remind me an awful lot of those days.

    23. Gene 12/22/2008 at 11:01 PM #

      I’m not surprised at the similarities between Herb’s first five years and our team now. For different reasons both Sid and Herb had teams that lacked depth and talent at key positions.

      Like I said earlier, unless we end up with a great 5-6 player recruiting class, it’ll take time and luck to rebuild.

    24. Afterglow 12/22/2008 at 11:03 PM #

      wufpup76-“Farnold had his best performance of the season”??? I agree that Farnold had a good last part of his game but he didn’t look good to me. Of the two guards (Farnold and Mays) I thought that Mays did a much better job over all: maintaining composure, taking good care of the ball and making good over all decisions. Farnold seemed rather complacent. He didn’t push the ball up the court for the first half and quite frankly much of the second and seemed kind of lost. Mays did some nice things. I think he is this years point guard. As for Javi, I don’t know man… I do not think he is going to do it for us. It seemed like Farnond started to get compfortable for the last part of the game which was a good sign but I personally was rather pleased with what I saw from Mays.

    25. packpowerfan 12/22/2008 at 11:10 PM #

      Swear to God. First the Panthers suck it big time last night…now this. I bet Santa is going to shit under my tree and rape my dog. This week sucks ass.

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