Laugh. Think. Cry.

V himself had said that team wasn’t very good.

After a 6-8 conference record, State was seeded sixth for the 1987 ACC Tournament in Landover. But somehow – not unlike a few years earlier on an even bigger stage – Jim Valvano’s Cardiac Pack had survived and advanced to the title game, where they would face top-seeded Carolina, who had steamrolled through the conference to an unblemished 14-0 record. Trailing the Tar Heels 67-66 with only 14 seconds remaining, Vinny Del Negro stepped to the free throw line in the Capital Centre and coolly drained two foul shots for the 68-67 victory.

I wasn’t yet eight years old that Sunday afternoon, but being a State fan had proven bountiful, I decided. In the days and weeks that followed, I relived that scenario countless times on my steep, dogleg-right driveway so typical of the North Carolina foothills, shooting free throws on a goal that measured about 12 feet on the low side while only around nine on the high side.

I’m much older now, and as Davidson tips off against West Virginia in the first game of the Jimmy V Classic at Madison Square Garden, I’m reticent of the fact that many of the current State students weren’t even alive that afternoon on March 8, 1987, when Del Negro sealed State’s tenth ACC title. At that time, we tied Carolina and bested Duke’s total by three. That title stands still as State’s last one, which is even more damnable considering Carolina has since added seven more conference titles, as well as two national titles, while Duke has added nine more conference titles and three national titles. Meanwhile, during the two decades since we last hung a banner, the N.C. State basketball program has stubbornly endured, insufferably, through the indignity of scandal, followed by complete irrelevance, and even still continues its struggle towards recovery.

The real shame of it all is that an entire generation of State fans knows of Jim Valvano only through his legacy. Laugh, think, cry.

It’s important that even the young generation of State fans understands why Jimmy V was such an endearing – and polarizing – personality for those of us that can never remember being anything but a State fan. But it’s not a romantic history; in fact, it’s quite tragic.

Jimmy V built his legend by winning the most remarkable national title and two ACC titles while at State, but it wasn’t enough to prevent his forced resignation from the team he’d once said he wanted to coach until he died – and tragically, he didn’t miss by much.

To be honest, I don’t completely understand it even now, but I no longer suffer the same naïveté as that kid winning championships in his driveway, so by no means would I defend V’s absolute innocence. After all, under his direction, the athletic department had demonstrated inadequate oversight and had lacked accountability – poor qualities, at best, for a leader. These mistakes weren’t – and aren’t – exclusive to Raleigh. In fact, it took a series of factors to even make it an irrecoverable issue.

Fueled by intense mistrust by the university’s academic community towards Valvano’s athletic department, an impossible power struggle had been borne. The consensus among the academics was that Valvano’s basketball program had become uncontrollable and the university would be far better off without it. To their defense, they had a valid point: State’s admissions process for athletes had indeed become comical, considering one of State’s primary recruits, Chris Washburn, had scored only a 470 on his SAT, while eight of Valvano’s recruits over the years had scored under 600.

This strife remained internal, however, until after a vile, poorly written book (which I refuse to even name here, in the fear it would generate curiosity), rife with inaccuracies and egregious, unfounded accusations of corruption within Valvano’s program triggered both the NCAA investigation and then the independent Poole Commission report that ultimately brought an end to State’s national prominence. The four-person Poole Commission investigated the book’s accusations but uncovered only minor infractions, and ultimately found that Valvano’s actions had “violated the spirit, but not the letter of the law.” However, with the lessons from the scandal at Southern Methodist still fresh, over the next six months a variety of investigations into Valvano were conducted, including one by the North Carolina Attorney General’s office.

Yet not one of these investigations unearthed a single academic or financial infraction within the program. Had anything truly damaging been uncovered, State would have undoubtedly faced far more intense sanctions, including a crippling TV ban. But the NCAA had been satisfied with the university’s internal corrective and punitive actions for the minor violations the Poole Commission had uncovered, which had included tighter restrictions over ticket and shoe distributions to players, limitations of off-campus recruiting visits, Valvano’s resignation as athletic director, and most crippling, a reduction in scholarships for three years. The NCAA also leveled the maximum two-year probation and barred State from participating in the 1990 NCAA Tournament (at 6-8 in the ACC, we wouldn’t have made it anyway).

At Carolina or Duke, that would have been the end of it. Not a single employee on Valvano’s staff had been found to have intentionally violated any rules or laws, but Valvano had committed the seemingly-treacherous act of failing to hold those in his charge accountable. He was viewed as a man who had lost institutional control, a most unrecoverable sin in NCAA terms. Valvano wasn’t immediately dismissed, but a vote of confidence by the chancellor was declined. This left an opening for the factor that ultimately brought N.C. State’s long reign of national prominence to an end – and not with a bang, but a whimper.

This isn’t a story of any ridiculous Carolina conspiracy or even typical media bias; it was far less impressive. It was nothing beyond irresponsible “journalism” at the area’s two largest news outlets, which had launched vicious attacks and spewed relentless vitriol upon Valvano using baseless, unmerited facts and personal bias to such an extent that it couldn’t have been anything other than opportunism at its absolute worst. Even State’s student newspaper joined the popular character assassination of Jim Valvano, who eventually resigned under intense scrutiny and pressure in April 1990.

I was 11 years old in April 1990 when the era of State basketball during which I’d grown up, the only one I knew, came to an end. Now what?

V returned to Reynolds one last time on February 21, 1993, for the 10-year commemoration of his Cardiac Pack’s 1983 championship, and by then he was dying of metastatic bone cancer. As I watched on TV, a lump moved into my stomach during halftime of that Duke game as he left us with that indelible motto to which every State fan can readily and intimately relate: Don’t give up, don’t ever give up.

Two weeks later at the ESPYs – he was so weak that night that his very close friends, Dick Vitale and Coach K, had to help him on the stairs – he repeated those magnificent words from his Reynolds speech, and they’ve been preserved for generations to come through replays during the annual Jimmy V Classic on ESPN. The singular part of his ESPY speech that best summed up why he was such a dynamic presence for State fans wasn’t his statement on mind, heart, and soul, but rather a few minutes before, when he’d gone over his allotted time for his speech: “They got that screen up there flashing 30 seconds, like I care about that screen. I got tumors all over my body and I’m worried about some guy in the back going ‘30 seconds?’”

Fifteen years later that still gets me, every time.

I was very young when his tenure at State came to an inappropriate and unceremonious end, but even then I was acutely aware of his legacy. I really wish State was the staple team of the Jimmy V Classic, but the truth is that the RBC Center will house Les Robinson Court before this university officially promotes Jimmy V. I guess you can see that I’m older and far more cynical now, but I’m still left searching for answers as to how a man who had once drawn so much ire, all that venom, from so many, could now be revered for offering such a redeeming and lasting message.

Why is it that even now, when I watch his ESPY speech each December – like I am now – I’m left nostalgic for an era of State basketball that I hardly remember, and even more ironic, an era that bears the ultimate responsibility for having created the darkest years of State’s rich basketball heritage?

Maybe I’m not the right one to adequately answer why V’s legacy still rings so proudly among us, especially for those of us keenly aware of the ramifications of his indiscriminate oversight while at State. Perhaps it’s quite simply that his message transcends the very essence, the indelible persona, of what it requires to be a State fan: hope.

For the last twenty years, hope has defined us.

After all, it’s all we’ve had.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

Fans Flashback General NCS Basketball Required Reading Tradition

112 Responses to Laugh. Think. Cry.

  1. redfred2 12/10/2008 at 10:51 PM #

    Packalum44, I understand what you’re saying, about how improvements in certain areas could possibly give the university a new lease on life and a brighter self image.

    All I’m saying is for people to look elsewhere, go outside and see what Jim Valvano means to people who aren’t connected to NC State University in any way. It’s a whole different perspective than anything you’re reading on this site right now.

    What I do not understand is why are those same high browed NC State folks so guilt ridden over something that is no longer mentioned anywhere else except within their own tight knit NC State circles? Folks elsewhere see only the inspiration that Jim Valvano embodied, call it reverse media bias if you will, but there is no longer anything swirling around that isn’t anything but absolutely positive with regards to Jim Valvano’s time on this planet.

    Review all of the findings for yourself, you’ll come to the same conclusions, there was not enough there to warrant the posse that went after Jim Valvano. He was just BIGGER, and that was just not sitting well with our neighbors at all. Even beyond that, it just does NOT matter to anyone, anywhere else, or anymore, except for some prudish NC State fans/alums/administrators right here among us. They can’t seem to allow what has become the positive REALITY of Jim Valvano to outweigh their own self induced and negative perceptions of the man. That’s even when they’re surrounded by an entire outside world that’s making them look like fools/morons/idiots/backwards…

  2. wufpup76 12/10/2008 at 11:55 PM #

    “Honor V and you’re going to have to talk about 12 percent graduation rates, fixed games and shaved points, Chris Washburn, the huge glut of transfers … ”

    Noah, I agree w/ you to a certain extent – but you could take about any honored coach (or person in general, for that matter) and find faults … guaranteed

    And I believe V’s accomplishments and legacy far outweigh his faults … It would be fair of someone to bring them up, but you can bring up faults about Dean Smith, too … Perception is of course reality, and Smith is perceived as “God’s basketball coach” while V is perceived as a cheater who got cancer (by some) …

    Maybe the University should work to erase this perception of V instead of hiding in shame and disassociating itself from one of the greatest people to have ever been associated w/ N.C. State … No doubt the stuff Noah mentioned is fair game, but what about the good stuff V did – wasn’t it far more? Ever since this tragedy with V, that’s all this University has done – tried to play the good little child who doesn’t upset the apple cart while NEVER, EVER standing up for itself when it’s being sh*t on … Enough is enough, isn’t it?

    Chapel Hole laughs at us and sees our attempts at relevancy as futile … Duke scoffs at us and wonders why we try to stay in the same league … This is the apple cart? These are the rules we’re supposed to play by? It’s OK for these asshats to win championships but not us? We’re second class and we should get used to it and *not even try* to change that?

    HE*L F***ING NO is what I say to that bullsh*t … It’s BEEN time to turn those clowns on their ears

    Anyway, I just wish the University would honor and embrace V and his legacy in some way – it doesn’t necessarily have to be naming the court or arena after him – but something more than just “Ohhh, yeah … THAT guy … He did coach here, didn’t he? Yeah, GREAT. Here’s a video clip.”

    That’s the way the University’s attitude towards V comes off to me, anyway … and I think that’s a shame

  3. gcpack 12/11/2008 at 12:58 AM #

    “dumbasses, corncob up their asses,, high and mighty folks with starched shirts, fools/morons/idiots/backwards……..”

    Are you drinking again redfred? You got nasty the other night and the next day you sent some sort of apology.

    I don’t understand the name calling you drop on those who you happen to disagree with.

    I think I can see why you have a problem with “high browed” people. At least they try to be respectable.

  4. Greywolf 12/11/2008 at 1:17 AM #

    “That 1987 Carolina team and the 1984 UNC team were arguably the best teams to never win a national title.”

    Oh, you mean UNChoke?

    “Honor V and you’re going to have to talk about 12 percent graduation rates, fixed games and shaved points, Chris Washburn, the huge glut of transfers”

    The trouble started with the point shaving around 1960, not with V. We lost the Dixie Classic Tournament because of it and the basketball program started going down. Sloan saved it. We took it up the ass when something very minor occured when we were recruiting David Thompson. The details are gone from my memory for ever. Were it not for that tight wad, Willis Casey, Sloan would never have gone to Florida. Sloan was a hot head but he had principles.

    In ’74 right after we won the NCAAs, Terry Lichfield, Mark Moeller and one other player, came to my son’s youth league basketball banquet — if banquet is what you can call it — like guest speakers or something. They talked about winning the National Championship. We were already set up for them to come before they won. (My player’s parents were impressed and my son and his teammates were thrilled beyond belief. Me too.)

    The wolf (mascot), also pole vaulter on the track team, worked for me then and I got players to come to banquets and other events that most State Fans would die to have them there. Remember Tom Higgins, an all ACC linebacker? Tommy Butts, the long snapper, changed his name from Christopher when his mom remarried. Butts came over to our youth league football practice and taught a few kids how to long snap. (The leverage comes from straightening the legs as you snap it. It is quite an art.)

    Our youth league football team was called “State.” My cousin coached his son who played for “Carolina.” I couldn’t have taken that. Our last practice before “State” played “Carolina” Jimmy put on his wolf costume and walked out of the woods by our field. Those 8, 9 and 10 y.o. kids didn’t know whether to shit or go blind.

    I was in Bernie’s Players Retreat right after the points shaving trial, when one on the players, a good aquaintance I partied with some times, cracked a joke that I consider classic gallows humor. When the beer got to the table, he said, “Here, let ******* pay for it.” referring to one of the gamblers who paid the players. I wasn’t all that comfortable with the point shaving and the jokes. They didn’t have squat for money and rationalized that they weren’t throwing the games and only the people who gambled got hurt. Well, not quite. Another argument for giving the players enough money that they can live like students, buy some clothes and have a few bucks to get a pizza. And a stereo for Washburn. 😀

    Time has been good to my memory in a manner of speaking. I can’t remember the names of a single one of the guys who actually did the point shaving. And I don’t want to. Everett Case was the coach. We have the Everett Case Athletic Center (I guess we still do.) But for V, we don’t have shit to honor the man.

    I was waiting tables at the College Inn restaurant and waited on Coach Case more than once. A real gentleman. Once at a lunch with Coach Case and some big WPC donors, one of the BDs said to me, “You’re nice and tall. Why wasn’t I playing. I remember flushing with embarrassment when Coach Case said, “He’ll be out there with the team this fall.” What a wonderful thing to say to rescue a young man he didn’t even know.

    By the luck of the draw (and a little begging) I was the superintendent for the “Recruiting Room” during the demolition stage. I got shifted to another project — maybe the renovation of Fraternity Court. I saw V every day I was there. He’d stick his head in and ask, “How’s it going?” I’d say, “Sorry about the noise.” or something equally stupid. V was just friendly. That’s all I’m up to sharing about V and my experiences of the speeches.

    This is way off the subject but during the renovation of Fraternity Ct., I found The Bobby Dodd Award medallion that had been given to Dick Sheridan. (Yes, some greek had stolen it.) I took it by the football offices and left it with a secretary, telling her I had found it. Coach Sheridan called me and took me to lunch as a way of thanking me. I could hardly swallow I was so up tight. 😀 Not because of Sheridan, he was as down to earth and gracious as he could be.

    Now, that was a nice walk down memory lane.

  5. B. Cochrane 12/11/2008 at 8:11 AM #

    Jim Valvano was a wonderful man. I was such an avid State supporter back then. I gave generously to the university. Football season tickets and ACC TOURNAMENT tickets were the norm for me every year. After Jimmy was so abused I have not attended a game or given a dime, nor do I intend to do so in the future. Back then it would have been unthinkable for me to send my children to Carolina, but I had two that graduated ’99 and ’05. When someone calls and ask me to donate to State I ask them “Do you know who Jim Valvano is?” Most so yes but surprisingly I get a few “no” answers. Those who say “yes” I then ask “Tell me what you know about him”. I have never received any answer close to fitting the great Valvano legacy.
    My university let down a great man. There was no principled plea on his behalf within the university and for that I can never give my support. I still keep up and I love this blog!

  6. Alpha Wolf 12/11/2008 at 8:21 AM #

    Great comments, guys. Just wanted to say.

  7. Sweet jumper 12/11/2008 at 8:21 AM #

    The media and the faculty thought V made too much money. He had outside interests that supplemented his State salary geneously. Some coaches were jealous of his empire but all current coaches should leave flowers at his grave daily because he laid the foundation for the outrageous salaries and shoe contracts that are now the norm in college basketball.

  8. whitefang 12/11/2008 at 8:22 AM #

    This type of entry and discussion is what separates SFN from the run-of-the-mill sports blogs.
    Thanks

  9. Mike 12/11/2008 at 9:05 AM #

    redfred, you and I agree on a lot, including Bobby Knight. Let me say I know point shaving and game throwing happened. I was there in the V years and I knew of one instance where a game was thrown. This was not V’s fault, but I do blame the character of the players, which are people V recruited.

    V’s legacy is great for the U. I admire what he did, how he stood up for his players, and the many memories. Bobby Cremins court is in Alexander Colisum in Atlanta, and Cremins was a fine man. I could go on for paragraphs about Cremins but I’ll leave it at that. V did much more for NCSU than Cremins ever did for GT. We should play on the V court. Forgiveness is something our admin would be advised to learn.

  10. GoldenChain 12/11/2008 at 9:20 AM #

    LRM, thanks for the great piece, I was 29 in 87 and can actually remember when we at least split with uxn every year. I’ve made similar arguments on various boards; in 1987 we had 10 ACC titles, unx had 10 Duke 7. We had 2 NC, unx had 2, Duke and the rest of the ACC = 0.
    Then when we try to hire a coach after Herb the “talking heads” say ‘I don’t know why State fans think they should have a coach/program like Duke or unx’.

    What has happened to our athletics since then is absolutely deplorable.

    I had the mistaken idea for many years that if I gave just a tad more it would push the program to the top again. However the admins and AD have consistently let me down.
    Now with two in college (one playing football at a private school ‘up North’) and the textile trade ‘on the ropes’ I just renewed at the minimum.
    As soon as my middle son (a 5th year engineering senior) graduates, I imagine I’ll drop a 30 year tradition and let my WPC membership lapse.

    Why keep on?
    It seems that every year its the same-old same-old; “wait ’til next year”, “we’re building a program”.
    You young folks with more money than sense can have at it. I’ll watch on TV and listen on the radio.
    If I want to go to a game bad enough, believe me, I can scrape up a ticket.

  11. Sweet jumper 12/11/2008 at 9:37 AM #

    Golden Chain–I was 28 in 1987 and I agree totally. My Dad is a life member of the WPC, and he quit giving and buying BB tickets because of the way V was treated. We use the ACC Tournament tickets occasionally, but no more $$ to WPC since 1990. We have no problem finding tickets for any game that we want to see in person.

  12. BoKnowsNCS71 12/11/2008 at 10:14 AM #

    I did not blame the WPC for what happened. I put all the blame on the Administration. Not contributing to the WPC only hurts our athletic programs.

  13. redfred2 12/11/2008 at 12:45 PM #

    GC, I may have said that someone had a corn cob inserted into a certain orafice, but as for the name calling, that was a lumpinmg together of certain attitudes that I see cropping up over and over again on this site, it wasn’t pointed at anyone in particular.

    But now, if you want to claim that you’re one of the high brows around here, then no offense meant to you sir.

  14. redfred2 12/11/2008 at 9:38 PM #

    Mike, OK, I’ll give you a break for the Bobby Knight comment. But seriously, just so maybe myself and possibly some other folks around here can rid ourselves of a little of the hate we have stored up pertaining to the Valvano days, can you give us some believable and substantiated FACTS to back up your claims?

  15. Noah 12/12/2008 at 10:45 AM #

    Noah, I don’t know where you get “point shaving” and all of the rest of that stuff, but being the fairly sane individual that I am, I’d have to believe that the NCAA would have weighed in much more heavily if anything you’re saying was fact.

    I got it from the guy who did it. Yes, Charles Shackleford shaved points. We won the game, we just didn’t cover. The Wake Forest game on Del Negro’s senior day is the most obvious example…

    And let me be clear — I really, REALLY don’t care if you don’t believe me. Just like I don’t care where “Wolfdog” throws his excrement. We’ve been over this countless times on countless boards. Wolfchat, the old ACC boards, the old State fans board, the wolfpacker boards, the wolfpacker chats…

    This isn’t new. But yes, Valvano coached fixed games. I am almost compeltely sure he knew nothing about it until he left NC State. I am sure that he eventually found out and I am sure that he was heartbroken and disgusted by it. I can’t imagine the pain it must have caused him. But he did coach a fixed game.

    Listen – if you don’t want to believe me…don’t. Justify Jim Valvano’s actions all you like. Beatify him all day long. It’s your world-view and you don’t need to justify it to anyone.

    But understand — it’s YOUR world-view. If you then project that perspective onto other people, you aren’t being honest with yourself.

    Did UCLA cheat when John Wooden was coach? HELL yes. Bill Walton and others have openly admitted that they did. Did UNC cheat when Dean Smith was the coach? HELL yes.

    Does any of this matter? HELL no. And unless you are a five-year-old, you don’t need me to explain to you the difference between perception and cultural memes and reality and truth.

  16. highstick 12/12/2008 at 9:43 PM #

    Would a Tarhole ever admit Dean cheated? HELL NO! Would the media ever publicize it? HN again! That would be so sweet to smear the phoney image that they have of themselves!

  17. redfred2 12/14/2008 at 9:31 PM #

    Uh Noah, let me get this straight, you’re making comparisons to, and using coaching icons like John Wooden and Dean Smith, saying that they “cheated”, to prove your point that NC State fans should shun Jim Valvano??? Yeah, that really makes a lot of sense to me. Not to mention those millions of other BB fans across the nation that would tell you, and your very small, LOCAL group of like-thinking cohorts, that you have absolutely lost your minds.

    So you tell me, along with all of the millions of other folks who KNOW that all three of those coaches were very good for the game of college basketball, whose perspective is more sync with the “world view”, mine, or yours? Of course, not forgetting that your “world view” would also include the great line of NC State administrators who have taken NC State athletics and run them straight into the ground since those days.

    Yep, by following that line of thinking, I’m guessing that all of the unc faithful are now plotting to disown their former coach and burn the Dean Dome to the ground here in the near future. Yessirree, that ought to make about as much as sense over there in chapel hill, as it does here. Maybe you could convince them next, then start working your way to the west coast, and convincing those idiots at UCLA what kind of a coach they once had out there as well.

  18. Noah 12/15/2008 at 3:30 PM #

    Uh Noah, let me get this straight, you’re making comparisons to, and using coaching icons like John Wooden and Dean Smith, saying that they “cheated”, to prove your point that NC State fans should shun Jim Valvano???

    No, I’m not making that point at all. In fact, I have no idea where you got that.

    Not to mention those millions of other BB fans across the nation that would tell you, and your very small, LOCAL group of like-thinking cohorts, that you have absolutely lost your minds.

    I’m also not sure why you think millions of people would tell me about something I didn’t say. But…okay.

    The rest of your post is pure gibberish. Please sober up and revisit it.

  19. Noah 12/15/2008 at 3:32 PM #

    Would a Tarhole ever admit Dean cheated? HELL NO! Would the media ever publicize it? HN again! That would be so sweet to smear the phoney image that they have of themselves!

    Sure. How else would I know about it?

    Everyone cheats. Everyone. Cheats. Every. One. Cheats.

    The problem comes when you get labeled a cheater. Because you have to be a really big cheater to stand out in a room full of cheaters.

  20. redfred2 12/15/2008 at 9:31 PM #

    ^ That, OR, you have to be surrounded by certain types of people/fans/administrators who are completely spineless and who actually prefer to scurry off and hide in shame for decades, rather than put up any attempt to defend their side/co-workers/coaches.

  21. redfred2 12/15/2008 at 9:38 PM #

    Well, I’ll say one thing, this thread has convinced me that the next time we read completely false and biased press releases regarding NC State, that at least one poster on this site will believe every word.

  22. redfred2 12/15/2008 at 9:49 PM #

    “No, I’m not making that point at all. In fact, I have no idea where you got that.”

    And your words were…

    “Did UCLA cheat when John Wooden was coach? HELL yes. Bill Walton and others have openly admitted that they did. Did UNC cheat when Dean Smith was the coach? HELL yes.”

    So, am I to take it that opposed to what you’re calling Valvano’s bad cheating, Wooden’s and Smith’s cheating was only the good kind of cheating?

    Just guessing here, but in real life, you wouldn’t happen to be a veteran writer for any Triangle newspapers, would you?

  23. redfred2 12/15/2008 at 10:15 PM #

    Also, I think there is a building called The Dean Smith Center somewhere, and I’m pretty certain that John Wooden received a metal from the President of the US, and that he also has his name and likeness on a few buildings in the Los Angeles area.

    What separates those two coaches from the one that worked in Raleigh, is that some folks could not, and still cannot, and never will be able to, deal with any amount of REAL success at NC State. They couldn’t/still cannot just admit that the BB program, as well as it’s director, simply needed to be reined back in. That the mistakes were not of the type that should cause folks to hide in the shadows or throw away a rich basketball history that included two National Championship Titles. The media picked up on the general weakness that ran ( and still runs) throughout NC State University, as well as some of it’s alums, supporters, and fans, and it became a feeding frenzy. The general public didn’t know, nor did they care, who the idiots were that were running NC State back in those days, people simply believed that if NC State wasn’t going to stand up, fight back, or even try to defend itself, then it must all be true. And apparently, and sadly enough, at least one of those folks seems to be the guy I’m responding to right now.

  24. Noah 12/16/2008 at 9:13 AM #

    Just guessing here, but in real life, you wouldn’t happen to be a veteran writer for any Triangle newspapers, would you?

    No, I never worked for any newspaper in the Triangle.

  25. Noah 12/16/2008 at 9:19 AM #

    So, am I to take it that opposed to what you’re calling Valvano’s bad cheating, Wooden’s and Smith’s cheating was only the good kind of cheating?

    No, that is NOT what I’m saying. I’ve never said that. I’ve never thought that. I’ve never implied that. You’ve never thought I’ve said that.

    This isn’t hard. Your insistence on taking my words out of context ought to provide you with everything you need to know.

    Why are you so determined to avoid what I’m saying? Because you really WANT to believe that Valvano was a victim. Why do most people refuse to do that? Because they viewed our program as a dirty program.

    It really doesn’t matter what the objective truth is. YOU want to believe one thing. So you avoid certain realities and wear your “I’m being obtuse” hat. Other people want to believe another thing. So they adopt another world view.

    Are you really this naive? New to our planet, perhaps? Raised by mountain gorillas and discovered by Dian Fossey maybe?

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