ACC Sports Journal: Wolfpack Failed to Fix Line With 2005 Class

Chuck Amato Flashback Football Recruiting General Rankings & Lists36

Recently the ACC Sports Journal completed major changes to their website and the layout of their print edition. For anyone interested, they are offering a free 30 day trial to their website. You can register by going here:

Free 30 day Trial

One cool feature non-subscribers can use on their website is the “Daily Links” page. They provide articles from around the ACC market for each team in the conference. Having been on the internet following ACC sports since 1996~, I think this type of “web run” was actually originated by the creators of this blog. We mentioned The Wolfpack Wire recently who also does something similar.

With tomorrow’s game against Duke and the many discussions of our talent level compared to other programs in the conference, we asked the folks from the ACC Sports Journal to offer one of their recent “subscriber only” articles for free to NC State fans. Each year they look back at the football recruiting classes from four years ago to see how well the classes turned out:

RALEIGH — Chuck Amato developed a reputation during his N.C. State tenure for putting on a show during his signing day press conferences, whether it was riding in on a motorcycle, drinking sparkling grape juice or wearing a gold suit. Feb. 2, 2005, was a bit different. Amato was more subdued and at times seemingly annoyed with having
to even do a press conference.

Following his first losing season at N.C. State, Amato for the first time was beginning to feel some heat. The year before, during Philip Rivers’ senior season, the team had a relatively disappointing 8-5 campaign, when it was expected to compete for the ACC championship.

The loud whispers were out there. Can Amato survive the post-Rivers era? Amato heard them. He also felt he answered them when State inked a 24-player class that was ranked on the fringe of the top 25 by most recruiting services.

“It’s not a bad class for a sinking ship, I’ll tell you that,” Amato said that day. “We are really pleased with what we got.”

Ultimately, though, the ship was sinking on Amato. He would never get to see the results of the class, which was supposed to address major needs along both lines. Fourteen linemen were inked, split evenly between the offensive and defensive sides.

Remember that Amato quote?

-Originally, the 2005 recruiting class was ranked tied for 5th in the ACC (B-) by the ACCSJ with a consensus national ranking of 30th. It is important to note that the ACCSJ takes into account academic attrition in the Fall semester which often plagued Chuck Amato recruiting classes while the national rankings do not.

-Duke was also given a B- and had a consensus national ranking of 38th. So for the most part Duke’s class was on par with NC State’s especially when you take into account that Amato’s class lost three players due to academic issues (Doug Palmer, Brandon Jeffries, and Chad Green).

-In measuring how the classes turned out, the ACCSJ gives 10 points per starter, 10 points for each all-ACC player and candidates, and 5 points for each 2nd stringer. Duke’s class ranked 8th in the ACC with NC State placing 9th. Both classes ended up with a C+ grade and averaged 5.6 points per player (as did TOB’s class of 2005 at Boston College).

-Check this link for a listing of the entire class.

-Click this link for an indepth article with Amato quotes and the ACCSJ’s breakdown of the class.

We would like to thank the folks from the ACC Sports Journal for working with us in providing this kind of quality, detailed information to NC State fans.

Chuck Amato Flashback Football Recruiting General Rankings & Lists

36 Responses to ACC Sports Journal: Wolfpack Failed to Fix Line With 2005 Class

  1. McPete 11/07/2008 at 3:21 PM #

    We all used to say that MOC excelled at finding “sleepers” and “diamonds in the rough”…well, we see how his tenure turned out

    It’s not necessary to compare TOB at state to MOC at state. Just look at what he did at BC. he’s the all time winningest coach in BC football history. he took a program from the bottom to top 25.

    “If we are content with a team that goes 6-6, 7-5, with an occasional 9-3 and runner up in the Division”

    that’s not what he acheived at BC. From year 3 to year ten, only once did he win less than 8 games (year 4: 7 wins). He won 8 or 9 every year. And when NC State wins 8 games and is a runner up for a conference title, it goes to the Gator Bowl or the Chick-Fil-A bowl. it doesn’t go to the pc computers bowl or the advanceautoparts.com bowl.

    TOB was 4-7 his 1st two years at BC, then never had another losing season there. Give him the time, he’ll produce like he always has.

  2. Daily Update 11/07/2008 at 3:50 PM #

    Classof89: You have to learn to walk before you can run. We were 3-9 the year before TOB arrived. We all would love to get highly ranked players, but with the hand that has been dealt it will be very difficult. NC State isn’t the popular school right now, so I am not sure what you expect TOB to do other than keep trying to win games.

    It may or may not work, but complaining about it doesn’t change the reality of the situation. If you are upset with the situation, then direct the criticism at the people who handed the program over to TOB in its current state (Fowler, Oblinger and BOT).

  3. Classof89 11/07/2008 at 11:51 PM #

    not criticizing TOB (at least not intending to) But let’s not make excuses for him with silly platitudes about diamonds in the rough…he’s having a crappy year recruiting so far, and he needs to improve or we will be mediocre for years to come. Period. Diamonds in the rough might have worked in the MOC era, but this is a new ACC where we have to compete with UNC, Miami, FSU, Clemson, and the strongest program in Wake’s history year in and year out. I think TOB knows that no better than 30th ranked recruiting isn’t going to cut it long term. And I’m surprised anyone on here thinks so…

  4. Ismael 11/08/2008 at 2:36 AM #

    Classof89: So how did TOB beat Butchy last year in recruiting in the state? Of the top 30 players we got the best haul, go back and look. Carolina fans were ready to do hari-kari after Dwayne Maddox then Terrell Manning committed. We finished with a better record than UNC-CH yet they outrecruit us this year. Think the record has anything to do with that? Think having, at one point, 44 healthy scholly players hurt our record? It takes time, recruiting comes in cycles, but we gotta start winning first.

  5. GAWolf 11/08/2008 at 6:42 AM #

    Interesting thought about TOB building a “solid team”. that’s what he did at BC and that permits what we saw last year there. A completely solid team in all aspects needs one, maybe two, diamonds to emerge and all of a sudden there you have something special. Amato seemed to want as many “diamonds” as possible and to get that he would completely sacrifice at other positions. The only thing special we wound up with as a result would have to take the short bus to school. A solid team in all areas is good to have (think Sheridan era) and it at least gives hope that a true superstar could emerge (think Ryan) and push the team over the edge to great for a year or two.

    I can’t remember….was Trot Nixon a Sheridan recruit or MOC? Could he have been the piece to push one of those late 80’s teams over the edge to greatness? who knows. but what we do know is even with another Rivers right now our D and O-line are so terrible we would still be pretty bad.

  6. GAWolf 11/08/2008 at 6:52 AM #

    Also, Amato had countless 4/5 star guys that never played or were complete flops. By flops I don’t mean they didn’t contribute or were nonfactors, but I mean they hurt the team much more than they helped.

  7. PackerInRussia 11/08/2008 at 7:00 AM #

    Classof89, I don’t think anyone is saying that TOB is going to build a program on hidden talent alone. I think it’s just a bonus that he is good at doing it. You can’t take one part of what’s being said and make that the main argument. Last year’s class pulled in a bunch of high talent from NC. Not only were they great in-state players, but there were some really good players on a national level, too. How does that fit with what you are saying? I know that that was last year, but what else can we base his NC State recruiting record on? This year isn’t over and the year before, he came in late. Also, we haven’t played UNC yet this year. Their current winning streak against the Pack is -1. At least let them win one before we worry about an endless streak.
    I kind of understand where you’re coming from though. We shouldn’t stick our heads in the sand and pretend that everything will fix itself on its own. You mentioned that some of the things being said were said with Amato. If our current coach were a first time head coach, then I think there may be cause to worry. However, TOB is a PROVEN winner. Given the deficit he inherited, I think we HAVE to give him the benefit of the doubt. That also doesn’t mean wait 10 years before judging. However, talking about negative trends and predicting the future 1.5 years into his term is still premature in my opinion.

  8. Classof89 11/08/2008 at 7:25 AM #

    I agree its too early to make any real judgments or trend predictions. On the other hand, last year’s victory over UNC really shouldn’t be looked at as an indicator of either coach’s ability to build a program. This year’s result WILL be an early indicator, and I think most neutral observers would agree that, even taking to account our injuries, Butch Davis has established an edge in talent fairly quickly. I just don’t want what happened to us in the late Sheridan/MOC eras to happen again. In a fairly short period of time, UNC closed from being blow out 48-3 to us needing things like a 56-yard field goal or an unbelieveable QB performance to beat them to, finally, MOC’s 7 game losing streak. All this was predicated, largely, on Mack Brown outrecruiting first Sheridan, and then MOC. Finally, after Brown left, MOC was able to reestablish more even recruiting with the help of UNC’s disasterous hiring of Torbush. That laid the ground work for Amato’s early success against UNC.

    Do we really want to be in the position AGAIN of hoping that UNC’s coach leaves and they make a bad hire in order to be back on a level playing field with them? I don’t, which is why it is so important that we NOT continue to be as decisively out-recruited as we have been this year. I don’t want to go back to the Kiffin/Reed era, or the late Mack Brown era where we had to hope we would have a perfect game, and they would have an off day with their amazingly skilled players (Amos Lawrence, anyone?) in order to have even a shot at staying with them (and, unfortunately, that never happened). I may be wrong, but I don’t remember us winning a state/carolina game as a heavy (i.e. more than 7 pt.) underdog since Dick Sheridan’s miracle in Chapel Hill in 1986. Moral of that story is, lets keep the talent on rough parity.

  9. SEAT.5.F.2 11/08/2008 at 10:02 AM #

    Our Coach and most of his assistants don’t have crappy years of recruiting, they’re not this year and it’s not about to happen in the near future. It’s a system for building a contender that you get when you hire this man and his staff, the sum of all intelligent human relation systems is greater then it’s parts.
    This may just sound like another cop out since USC, Bama and UF don’t employ the same system.

    I know from speaking to parents of recruits that coach Horton and all the others are the real diamonds in the rough. When some parents and athletes are getting bombarded by programs aggressive and opportunistic asst’s that our’s have a widely known reputation of spending every available moment with these kids actually getting to know them. Folks feel like they had somebody come knocking on their door looking to help their child get from where they are as a teenager to where they want to be as an adult.

    Case in point, we just offered a 1 * recruit out of Barrington, In, who has an offer from Air Force. Last year we got a team mate to walk on with what I’m guessing is a shot to walk on. All I’m saying is that usually you could go in state and find a couple big boys to play scout team for you and hopefully fill in as capable reserves somewhere down the line. Something tells me that some talks around the dinner table having a hearty hoosier meal told them these young men will fit the system.

    One big reason TOB would like an early signing period is that he gets shopped, and any one who works in bidding for contracts professionally knows that to be the most dirty word out there. They work too hard and their system has been put to the test too many times for someone to come out and say that there having a “lousy year”, besides give the guys who have given a verbal more support

  10. MatSci94 11/08/2008 at 3:37 PM #

    The problem is how do you try to identify “decisively out-recruited.” The number of *’s doesn’t tell you how a player will pan out, of if he will even make it into school. (see QB’s since PR, and many of Chuck’s classes)

    Yes TOB didn’t have nationally stelar classes at BC, but look what he did with that talent. Look at the consistent winning, and when a star came along, they did very well.

  11. Classof89 11/10/2008 at 11:31 AM #

    I guess we’ll see…I sure hope you guys are right.

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