You thought we had bad attrition? or, Todd Turner is not a sports handicapper

As we highlighted in this entry last week, injuries and attrition have been a major topic in WolfpackNation over the last couple of years.

Our numbers are not a pretty sight; but, we’ve surprisingly found another program that has had it worse.  Of course, that program has fired their coach (who will stay on until the end of the season) for his performance in the midst of his retention issues.  I’d say the Wolfpack is a long way from that conclusion in light of the optimistic mood that most fans continue to have about the future of State’s program under the guidance of Tom O’Brien.

The following chart is an excerpt from this analytical article focused on Tyrone Willingham’s retention issues at Washington.

Need a little more reminder of NC State’s ties here?

How about the fact that Willingham – a Jacksonville, NC native – was an assistant coach for Tom Reed at NC State from 1983-1985?

Or the fact that Willingham was the Head Coach on Notre Dame’s sidelines for NC State’s 28-6 big win over the Fighting Irish in the 2003 Gator Bowl?

Or the fact that everyone’s favorite Athletics Director – Todd Turner – hired Willingham and was himself fired last year in large part for his reluctance to take actions to improve the on-the-field results of his his programs.  You will very much enjoy reviewing the situation by clicking here.

If you want some REAL fun, check out some of Todd Turner’s stellar predictions and comments after last football season and before his ouster at Washington.  Note the confidence with which Turner states some of this as absolute fact.  (Remind you of any other ADs who just like to make comments as if they were all-knowing and that whatever rolls out of their mouth is fact?)

I think it’s clear that none of the Husky nation is thrilled to have only four wins under our belt this past year, but the body of work that I’ve observed and the university leadership has observed over the past three years gives clear evidence to me that that record will change in the very near future. We’re committed to that and we feel strongly that coach Willingham has provided the kind of leadership that gives us the base to make it happen.

The charge that Tyrone had when arrived at the University of Washington was to put in place the building blocks for a program that could sustain itself over a long period of time, and by any measure the foundation, we believe, is firmly in place to allow the wins now to take care of themselves.

We’re not pleased to be at this point. I’m not surprised frankly that there are a lot of people interested in this topic. In some ways it’s disappointing the commentary in some ways on our enterprise and what we do in higher education and what we do in athletics today that we would be so concerned about one measure of excellence and success when the quality of the experience for your students should be primary. We think our students are getting an exceptional experience here and that will improve even as the record improves, which will happen.

Despite Todd Turner’s surprise that people would be interested and his conviction that ‘by ANY MEASURE the foundation is firmly in place to allw the wins now’…Washington is currently winless in the Pac-10 and 0-7 overall.

Additionally, Todd Turner has not been invited to the annual sports handicappers convention at Caesar’s Palace.

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15 Responses to You thought we had bad attrition? or, Todd Turner is not a sports handicapper

  1. WolftownVA81 10/30/2008 at 6:58 AM #

    The only thing Turner should have added was that they can’t compete because of substandard facilities. If he’d pulled out that line, he might still be their AD. Guess he should have consulted with Lee.

  2. Packaholic1 10/30/2008 at 7:13 AM #

    Players sense that a school that dumps coaches with a multi-million dollar contract will not be loyal to them either. No surprises here.

  3. Par Shooter 10/30/2008 at 7:45 AM #

    I dislike TT as much as the next guy but what was he supposed to say? If you are keeping the guy at that point in time (when he made these statements) then it only makes sense to express optimism that better times are ahead. Hell, we’re saying similar things about TOB and Sid with about the same basis. Don’t forget that Willingham had success at Stanford that one could point to as a “track record” in a BCS conference. He took Stanford to the freaking Rose Bowl.

    Comments like this are just the prudent thing to do. I suppose you could say “we’re keeping Ty around but frankly I expect we’ll go 0-12 next year and he’ll never make it to the end of the season without getting canned.” Would that really make any sense at all? To me it seems that the Willingham era is being spun very similar to the Les era was here.

  4. Classof89 10/30/2008 at 8:23 AM #

    Anyone know what Turner is up to now? Has he returned to NC?

  5. wufpup76 10/30/2008 at 8:48 AM #

    I really hope Turner is no longer in athletics administration … he has left some kind of mess at each institution where he has been AD

    As for his comments, optimism is a given but the following sums up why he fails as an AD:

    “some ways it’s disappointing the commentary in some ways on our enterprise and what we do in higher education and what we do in athletics today that we would be so concerned about one measure of excellence and success when the quality of the experience for your students should be primary. We think our students are getting an exceptional experience here and that will improve even as the record improves, which will happen.”

    Yes Todd, academics and quality of experience being primary are a given – but that doesn’t mean that’s the ONLY part of your job … nor is it an excuse to not focus on the other part of your job: to put consistently competitive/winning programs out on the field regardless of sport – but especially in the revenue sports

    Here is The Todd Turner attitude which I think is still prevalent at NC State today: “We don’t need to be competitive or relevant in anything so long as the student athlete experience is great and we’re doing our schoolwork.”

    Pure Genius.

    Some schools ACTUALLY manage to not only have great student athletes but to also be competitive and have winning programs … Go figure

  6. primacyone 10/30/2008 at 1:44 PM #

    Don’t know where to put this – could you bump the old soccer thread to the front page. To relate this to this thread – Would someone please forward the info below to Lee Fowler and see what Todd Turnerish positive spin he wishes to put on wolfpack soccer this year.

    The Campbell Fighting Camels once again reigned justice down on the Tar Holes. The 6th ranked Campbell Men’s Soccer team defeated the 2nd ranked Holes on Tuesday by a 2-0 margin. The third straight year. Great win for the Camels. Thanks for consistently doing what NCSU can not.

    http://www.gocamels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=65345&SPID=7299&DB_OEM_ID=15300&ATCLID=1613640

    Here are the latest the south region rankings which were before the game.

    1 Wake Forest University
    2 University of North Carolina
    3 Duke University
    4 Furman University
    5 University of South Carolina
    6 Campbell University
    7 College of Charleston (S.C.)
    8 Appalachian State University
    8 Jacksonville University
    10 Alabama A&M

  7. PackerInRussia 10/30/2008 at 3:08 PM #

    As soon as you start pulling out the “body of work” line, it’s never a good sign.

    Maybe UW and NC State could start a new annual tradition. They could get together and play a game in which the score is not kept and everyone gets an award at the end.

  8. BSIE80 10/30/2008 at 4:39 PM #

    Maybe we fire Lee and hire Tyrone W. as AD.

  9. john of sparta 10/30/2008 at 7:31 PM #

    too many missed opps.
    we gave it, what did you do with it?
    my employer expects results in 6 months.
    and it doesn’t even pay me 6 figures.
    i know, i didn’t choose baseball.

  10. redfred2 10/30/2008 at 8:49 PM #

    “I really hope Turner is no longer in athletics administration … he has left some kind of mess at each institution where he has been AD”

    Well, ole Lee shouldn’t have to worry any comments like that, he’s apparently a “lifer” at the NC State Wolfpack Den.

  11. Dr. BadgerPack 10/30/2008 at 10:22 PM #

    Let’s not be so quick to toss EVERY AD we don’t like under the bus. There does exist a line between “the student-athlete experience” and winning. Turner did at least have one half of the equation right… I didn’t say a word about our, uh, ‘coach’…

  12. Greywolf 11/01/2008 at 10:10 AM #

    Every recruit should run a 4.4 forty, have a verticle jump of 36″, be a minimum of 6′-4″. weigh 235, score 1200 his SATs and have a GPA of 3.5. Every coach should be a master recruiter, have the public speaking skills of Obama, the personality of Sarah Palin, have the strategy skills of Bill B of the Patriots, and teach like Homer Rice. The AD must be an extraordinary organizer, have knowledge of all sports in order to step in and point the coaches in the right direction, have the diplomatic skills of the State Department Ambassadors, vision of an oracle, a veritable chameleon, otherwise fire their sorry ass and hire one who does. Only successful ADs at top-ranked Universities need apply. To be really successful, the modern AD needs the time to read and digest blogs for advice and guidance on how to do the job right. A thick skin is desirable.

    Why such high standards? Because we demand excellence in everything but our own life performance.

  13. Pack84 11/02/2008 at 10:16 AM #

    I despise TT as much, if not more, than anyone on here and couldn’t care less what happens to him. However, to be fair, Ty Willingham inherited a colossal mess at UW, not unlike HWSNBN had here his first years. How come UW doesn’t give him 10 years to fix it?

  14. Gene 11/02/2008 at 6:36 PM #

    UW remembers winning a National title around 1990 or so, when Steve Emtman(sp?) was playing there and generally haveing above average success in football for decades.

    I guess they just feel their history means they should have higher standards.

    What makes me laugh (cry?) about Turner is when I was at NCSU the students kept on saying how bad an AD Turner was. The powers that be kept saying we were nuts and Turner was a first rate AD and we should be proud to have him.

    I really wonder what a good AD will do for NCSU, if and when we ever find one.

    I’ll say this about Lee, unlike Turner, Lee at least raises money and gets rennovations / new facilities built. Turner couldn’t even do that much.

  15. redfred2 11/03/2008 at 12:44 PM #

    Lee’s little money machine has reached it’s limit. He’s just a benefactor of good timing anyway, it wasn’t him who got the money rolling in to begin with.

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