They Say That First You Lose By A Little: Boston College 38- NC State 31

Following an exciting fourth quarter comeback, the NC State defense wasn’t able to keep Boston College out of the end zone after the Wolfpack tied the game at 31-31 with about 3:30 left in the contest in today’s ACC matchup at Carter-Finley Stadium.

That’s no surprise considering that BC had pretty much played through NC State’s defense with ease most of the afternoon, but still, it was a frustrating loss for Wolfpack fans because the team didn’t quit and had fought their way back in a game they were clearly outmanned and outgunned.

Some things I noticed this afternoon…

The good news:

  • With the exception of the USF and USC game, NC State seems to always find a way to hang around and make things interesting.  Given    that the team has more injuries than a typical M*A*S*H unit, and that it has three walk-ons starting, that’s a good thing.  It shows that the coaches have instilled an esprit-de-corps in the Wolfpack players that doesn’t allow them to quit.
  • NC State finally has a decent quarterback, and at times the offensive line blocks for him long enough to let a receiver break wide open and get a big gain.  Russell Wilson makes freshman mistakes once in a while, but he is the best thing under center since some guy who wore #17 played for NC State.  Let’s hope he doesn’t pursue a baseball career immediately, because it would be nice to have to put Mike Glennon under the gun as the only quality QB on the roster next season.
  • The Wolfpack also has a pretty decent set of backs, even without Toney Baker back on the field.
  • T.J. Graham is turning into the next Devon Hester, and his 103 yard touchdown return against Boston College was one of the most exciting Wolfpack plays in the last ten years.  You could almost see it coming after he had nearly gotten a free run into the end zone on the previous BC kickoff.
  • George Bryan will be one helluva tight end by the time he leaves NC State.
  • Carter-Finley can get pretty loud in its new configuration…even for 12pm games.

The bad news:

  • NC State’s defensive backfield is simply awful.  They seem to be four steps behind every decent receiver.  Is this the Mike Archer soft zone or  personnel issues?  No matter what it is, call it what the secondary what they are: a sieve.  It’s almost like there are 5 Greg Goldens back there nowadays  A decent quarter-receiver tandem can eat them alive, which may not completely be their fault:
  • The pass rush has been almost non-existent lately.  It did show up in the second half, but on the clinching drive that won the game for BC, once again the BC line kept the Wolfpack at bay long enough for receivers to get open.  Bottom line: against USF and BC, QB’s have all day and receivers can and will eventually find the interstices of a zone pass defense.  Quite honestly, as bad as the pass defense has gone, I wonder why NC State doesn’t go man-to-man and bring a blitz.  It’s not like the receivers would be any more open than they have been against USF and Boston College.
  • The kicking game is highly dubious — it’s hard to believe that at a university the size of NC State there’s no one that can kick a ball seventy yards in the air.  Or anyone that can punt a football farther than the kids out in the parking lot at the tailgates.
  • Dare I say it: why do people say that Anthony Hill has NFL skills as a tight end when he seemingly drops every important pass thrown to him?  I love the guy, don’t get me wrong, but he needs to get stickier hands if he plans on playing for money on Sundays after his days at NC State.  And before you say that this is due to him just coming back from injury, think again — he has done this through most of his career.
  • Maybe one day NC State will replace the beat up jambox they bought at Reliable Pawn and stuck in the scoreboard and put a decent PA system in.

Your thoughts?

'08 Football

71 Responses to They Say That First You Lose By A Little: Boston College 38- NC State 31

  1. b 10/04/2008 at 7:11 PM #

    BC was just able to take advantage of our LBs in zone, and yes our secondary is playing with young players and two man corners who have converted to zone principles. They did force three TOs, and they didn’t quit even when some of the worst fairweather fans ever tried to leave.

    The young players on both sides of the ball made mistakes (dropped balls, missed tackles, and missed assignments) but they made some plays, too. And BC is still a solid team. That we hung up 31 points on them WITHOUT converting TOs is both a positive and a negative.

    The O-line only broke down about a third of the time, an improvement and that’s without two starters. It sucks the defense couldn’t find a way to stop BC, but they were in the game despite having been outgained by 300 yards.

    That’s what I took from this game, our team is fighting to the final whistle and they are making fewer mistakes.

    They just need to be in these games this year, and they will learn how to win the close ones down the line. Now they have basically one game in three weeks so hopefully they can get healthy for a stretch run.

  2. ChiefJoJo 10/04/2008 at 7:21 PM #

    Totally agree with Noah. It’s surely not the coaching. Our defense has been awful since Cash and Irving went out. Maddox appears lost every play, but we have no one better to put in there. Ditto with the DBs and DL. No pash rush & no coverage.

    I can probably list our healthy ACC caliber starters right here: Wilson, Brown, Eugene, TJ Graham (as a return man), & Holmes. That’s probably it. Hill can be but hasn’t shown it yet, and of course Irving, Cash, Baker, & Crouch are hurt. We need better players, folks.

    Someone above said WE blew it. Look at the stats and it’s amazing we were in this game at the end. We did make force a couple of TOs and made very few mistakes that I recall, which is part of why we kept it close.

  3. colapack 10/04/2008 at 7:32 PM #

    Basically, we have no speed on defense. It looked like we were in slow motion when we’d try stunts on blitzes. I thought I was watching paint dry waiting for the stunt to develop. I dont remember us hurrying their quarterback at all. How the heck does that big slow quarterback of theirs out run our secondary and linebackers to score a touchdown. Are you kidding me? The linebackers cant back off into pass coverage because by the time the decide to cover, they are allready beat.

  4. Par Shooter 10/04/2008 at 7:49 PM #

    Our defense simply sucks. The players suck, the coaches suck, the starters suck, the backups suck, the D line sucks, the LB’s suck and the secondary sucks. Not one guy on the field on our D has a f’ing clue and the coaches aren’t doing 1 f’ing thing about it. Pointing fingers is easy in this case – there is enough suck to go around. Folks who think this D is a year or 2 away from being D-1 caliber are not paying attention. There is really no reason to project a D-1 caliber defense in the foreseeable future.

  5. Trip 10/04/2008 at 8:00 PM #

    I’m sunburnt on the entire left side of my body thanks to a game time decision of not wearing sunscreen, but hell, that was a pretty exciting game. It was damn frustrating to not get any defensive stops, but Wilson kept us in the game. If we had gotten ANY defensive stops this would have been a different outcome.

  6. blpack 10/04/2008 at 8:11 PM #

    Tough loss. We had our chances, but BC was too much for us. The D missed tackles, made some coverage miscues and never got to the qb. Pass defense begins with pressuring the quarterback. Our young guys are getting a baptism by fire this year and with youth, some plays are good and some we look slow, out of place or just get whipped. RW looked good today after he got his feet under him. Owen Spencer is becoming a good WR. Graham is a real weapon on KO returns. Got to love the TE from Wilmington, George Bryan. One of the most awesome catches we’ve seen in years. Let’s get ready for the Noles. Looking forward no game is out of our reach if we can improve.

  7. basspacker812 10/04/2008 at 8:16 PM #

    I was at the game, our D was awlful. No way a quarterback of that size and speed should be able to run for 10, 15 yrds or a TD. BC absolutely made our secondary look like a high school. A couple plays, the secondary looked like they were covering ghost BC players, running down field while BC cutback. Archer either got outcoached or flat out failed to change up the zone defense when it was not working. If the offense can score 31 points at home, while the opposing team gives up 3 turnovers, no excuse for defense to give up 38 points with 7 coming in the last 3 minute drive from probably the worst qb in the ACC. No excuse injuries or not, the D sucked.

  8. BoKnowsNCS71 10/04/2008 at 8:20 PM #

    I trust Tom O’Brien so much that after the game today I went out and bought a new set of Costa Del Mars. You see guys. They future is so bright — I gotta wear shades. lol

  9. grouchomarx 10/04/2008 at 8:34 PM #

    the zone pass D was awful, look at the stats. is it personnel or the scheme? when we played man we stopped them. D lost this game, Archer better adjust fast.
    Game was great entertainment, bad result.

  10. WolftownVA81 10/04/2008 at 8:38 PM #

    After watching the Miami-FSU game I think FSU will be very tough for us, unless they commit even more penalties than they did tonight. I was also impressed with the peformance of the offense (except the dropped passes) and TJ Graham. D, not so much. Overall, good improvement and great offensive effort. Our defense needs to step it up to keep us in any game. Let’s hope for a healthly unit week after next. Props to Crane, I had no idea he was that good.

  11. RagingWolf 10/04/2008 at 8:50 PM #

    This is what I couldn’t understand today. Why did we hand the ball off to Eugene/Brown 7 times ONLY????? WHY? WHY?? (I AM SHOUTING) In the first half those two had 4 rushes. Of the four rushes the worst result was for a 2 yard gain. For the entire game, we gave the ball to those guys ONCE on first down (1st & goal from 9 to Eugene) These RBs are damn good RBs. Why did we not give them any carries? RW had 15 carries. Some may not have been by design but most were. This is a guy that we are DESPERATE to keep healthy.

    The series that drove me the most nuts was late in the first quarter, we have the ball on the BC 34, 3rd and 4. I am thinking, run the ball and get 2 yards or maybe a first down. If you don’t get the first down, go for it on 4th and short. Instead, they throw an incomplete pass. We go for it on 4th but it is 4th and 5, not 4th and short. RW gets sacked.

    The two 3-and-outs after a turnover we also frustrating. On the first one we passed on 2nd and 3!!

    SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY!

  12. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 10/04/2008 at 8:50 PM #

    The defense clearly had a problems today but before everyone goes off on the D, they did force 3 turnovers. The D also kind of got screwed after giving up a long drive, State returned the KO for a TD and they had to go back out on the field with no rest. Same thing happened later in the game after a long BC drive and the D forced a FG, State scored on the first play forcing the D back on the field again with no rest.

    No doubt BC dominated State’s D but even when things went well for the Pack on offense, it kind of put the D in a bad place.

  13. choppack1 10/04/2008 at 10:24 PM #

    We didn’t blitz much in the first half. In the second half – we blitzed more – the results were marginally better.

    If you are looking for good news – our 4 TDs – 3 were scored by freshman, and 1 scored by a sophomore.

    We needed this one bad. Clearly our D wasn’t up to snuff today. However, if we become a team that doesn’t beat itself (like we didn’t today), once we get some depth and more experience, we’ll be fine.

  14. ruffles31 10/04/2008 at 10:27 PM #

    As much as the offense has improved, the defense has definitely regressed. I can’t believe that Irving and Cash meant that much to the team. If you look at the last two games, the team has given up over 1000 yards worth of offense. It almost seems that in the last two games, when the Pack ise on defense, it is not a game but a 7-on-7 drill. I understand we are not as talented as we were a few years ago, but when it is 3rd and 6 and our DBs are instructed to line up 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that it is nothing more than pitch and catch for the offense. I am sure Coach Logan was loving calling plays today. No pressure and playing a soft zone is disheartening. I don’t know how to get passed it though. We are playing/starting 2/3 walkons and 2/3 freshman as well. Not a good combination. I was not that excited when we hired Arhcer.

    My brother-in-law, Kentucky grad, was estatic when Archer left Lexington 2 years ago. He said 2 things:

    1. Sorry.
    2. His defensive strategy was always bend and break somewhat. The only reason UK did well in 2006 was that they had a great turnover margin.

    So I looked up some defensive statistics about the 2006 SEC season:

    Kentucky

    Rush Defense: 184.5 ypg 12th – Last
    Pass Defense: 268.9 ypg 12th – Last
    Total Defense: 453.4 ypg 12th – Last
    Turnover Margin +15 1st

    Now campare that to 2008 NCSU thru 5 games:

    Rush Defense: 174.0 ypg 12th – Last
    Pass Defense: 226.6 ypg 11th
    Total Defense: 400.6 ypg 12th – Last
    Turnover Margin -1 8th

    (The Pass Defense yards will go up after today).

    Any other similarities? Well, Kentucky was trying to still recover from NCAA sanctions and didn’t have a full roster. And we are dealing with a shortened roster from attrition and injuries.

    On the good side, we had NO reason being in today’s game, as much as we were getting dominated, really, on both sides of the ball. At the end of 3 quarters, the Pack was down 401-136 in yards, and only trailed by 11.

    To get that game tied is a testament to O’Brien. This team doesn’t quit. But when you go into a fight with only a half a deck of cards you are going to have to play a near perfect game to win. Hey, at least the penalties were down.

  15. wufpup76 10/04/2008 at 10:28 PM #

    “Props to Crane, I had no idea he was that good.”

    Have to disagree w/ you a bit here … While Crane deserves credit for making the throws I think the real props belong to BC’s line and protection schemes … Crane had been pretty underwhelming this season coming into today’s game … I annoyed the hell out of my friends I was watching the game with trying to tell them how bad Crane could be if we just got to him once or twice – of course the cure for him was to play NC State, naturally 🙁

  16. turfpack 10/05/2008 at 12:57 AM #

    Guys cool out! -As a H.S. football coach -these coaches are doing one hellava job with what they have on their roster.
    Inexperienced players,Walk on’s,Injuries,and 47 players on a D-1 BCS conference school are you fricking kidding me! 1st South Fla. was a better team by far.
    2nd R.W. has us at the end with a chance to win.Defense-Just ran out of gas.DEFENSE WAS TOAST-NO PASS RUSH ON A SR.Q.B.WITH GOOD W.R.’S YOU WILL LOSE 90% OF THE TIME.
    Also -as a defensive coach when you lose two players with the ability and experience of Cash-Irving its really hurts your defense all the way down the line-the backup’s are mostly freshmen or walkon’s and their backup’ wouldn’t normaly see the field for 3 years
    Some of the comments on this blog about defensive coaching and what they would have done defensively is laughible at least.
    When you try teaching some young inexperienced(sometimes not as athletic a player)to cover a R.S.Jr. with 4.5 speed -possble 4 cover skeem– Or fight off a Sr.4yr starter 6’5”330lbs to clear a gap on a inside move –all of this on EVERY PLAY.To grade out at 60-70% would be great.
    Let this coaches recuit,teach skeems and build a program for the future.Freshmen bc Soph. bc Jr.’s bc Sr’s-it will get better.
    Try going to your job on monday with 1/3 to 1/2 of your resoures missing and see what kind of job you would do-or have half your employees be 1st yr college graduates in today’s business world.

  17. Ismael 10/05/2008 at 4:26 AM #

    way to keep it in perspective turfpack. some of the people on here, i don’t care if you’re fed up, frustrated, mad – you’re just a fan. You’d get a hardon or soil yourself if you saw TOB at the mall, you’d forget you had a wife and/or kids. If the coaches suck, you suck more then.

  18. robzucc 10/05/2008 at 6:01 AM #

    I was a high school coach way back when myself and to say these guys ran out of gas is incorrect. If your down by twenty and you have been on the field the whole game sure I would agree,but that was
    not the case in this game. We had a 12 play drive that gave the D time to rest. But we just tied the game that, is an emotional lift.And as they say its how bad do you want it. What I saw on Bc’s final drive on the very first play archer came with the heat. QB is hurried incomplete pass. Every play after that what I saw was to make sure everything stays in front of us dont let them get behind us strategy. BIG MISTAKE. It did not work before and I said to myself you cant blitz every down but at least show it and show some stunts. These are young guys out there and emotionally they knew that we just tied the game. You dont run out of gas at that point.Football is the only game I will ever love and that is because when its gut check time wou will always have a reserve left in
    your body. I know because I played it and coached it. It is The most physical game out there. But when you play from the neck up all eleven tell each other we have one more stop in us.

  19. robzucc 10/05/2008 at 6:27 AM #

    I just wanted to say that I agree about what all of you are saying
    We are young,banged up, and of course it takes time for greatness.
    Turfpack,as one coach to another you make great points. Dont
    you think BC was and is a north / south kind of team,almost Big ten
    like. I do question you on their speed I do not have all the facts
    to back this up,but it seems that they excecute well. That is a big difference then to just say boy this team has great speed at skilled positions. But boy sometimes I’ll take that execution over speed
    any day of the week. Would like to hear back from you if you get
    the chance. I miss coaching the boys and I admire you for what you
    do.

  20. Noah 10/05/2008 at 6:54 AM #

    If we had blitzed on every play, we would have lost 138-31. Instead of giving up 12-play, 80 yard drives, we would have given up one play, 80 yard drives. When your corners are Koryal George and Jeremy Gray, maybe putting them in man coverage while you (ineffectively) blitz the QB isn’t the best idea.

    One other thing to note, we’re so thin on defense that our first stringers are not only playing almost every down on defense, they’re also our kick coverage team and punt coverage team.

  21. Noah 10/05/2008 at 6:54 AM #

    If we had blitzed on every play, we would have lost 138-31. Instead of giving up 12-play, 80 yard drives, we would have given up one play, 80 yard drives. When your corners are Koryal George and Jeremy Gray, maybe putting them in man coverage while you (ineffectively) blitz the QB isn’t the best idea.

    One other thing to note, we’re so thin on defense that our first stringers are not only playing almost every down on defense, they’re also our kick coverage team and punt coverage team.

  22. TOBtime 10/05/2008 at 7:06 AM #

    Nate Irving would have been huge in this game. Both passes to the tight end on the last drive would have been his coverage responsibility and NO WAY does Crane turn the corner on Irving. No way.
    RW is becoming huge for us. Cool under fire is an understatement. Way to bring the “A” game TJ Graham!

  23. RAWFS 10/05/2008 at 7:35 AM #

    In retrospect, Noah, you’re 100% correct. I wrote my comment in the midst of yet another BC drive and probably was thinking more emotionally than tactically.

  24. Sw0rdf1sh 10/05/2008 at 7:39 AM #

    It was a good game, and TJ got his first (a record breaker) in front of us.

    However, during the game I used some of the same words in this article…..sieve, soft zone, down the middle. That is what hurts us, every pass in the middle was a huge gainer.

  25. Par Shooter 10/05/2008 at 8:37 AM #

    Noah is correct, other than injury we almost never sub out anyone in our back 7. The coaches rotate the DL quite a bit but I think the only guys in the back 7 who missed snaps were Morgan and Byers and those were due to injury. It doesn’t even appear that we change back-7 personnel on 3rd and long (nickel, etc.) very often. I’m sure the coaches would love to have decent options to give guys like Leonard, Michel, and Gray a rest every 3rd or 4th drive.

    At some point I wonder if we shouldn’t start getting some of the young pups a few snaps. Can a fresh Sterling Lucas be that much worse than a gassed Leonard or Michel? If so that is a real problem because the upperclassmen are pretty ordinary on their best day and that is before playing every snap. Even if we give up a little while the young backups are sprinkled in it may pay dividends in their development and it may help the starters play a little better late by getting a rest. If there is a huge dropoff from a worn out Ray Michel to a fresh Sterling Lucas then what in the world should be expect from a totally inexperienced Lucas next year?

    While Maddux was still pretty bad yesterday he did look a little more like a legitimate football player and I suspect that reps have a lot to do with that. We need to go ahead and start getting other young guys reps at some point if we want them to develop. Who is going to play the strong-side LB next year?

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