Next year’s 12th football game

At the risk of over-stating the obvious – next year is a very important year for the NC State Football program and every single leader with any type of influence over the direction of the football program. Unless the Wolfpack can string together four consecutive wins to close out the 2008 season, the program is heading for a 4th losing season in the last five years – all under the ‘leadership’ of Athletics Director, Lee Fowler.

To offer some historical perspective on this – NC State has experienced four losing seasons in a five year period only three times since the formation of the Atlantic Coast Conference in 1953..

-1958 to 1962 (16-31-3)
-1981 to 1985 (19-36)
-1983 to 1987 (21-34-1)

Two of these five year periods were essentially the same era of NC State football – the mid-1980’s under Monte Kiffin and Tom Reed prior to the arrival of Dick Sheridan.

With the improvement we have seen in the last three games of this season and the composition of the freshmen that are currently being redshirted, true hope exists for some success in 2009 (and beyond). Coach Tom O’Brien will return the highest total of starters in our program’s in recent history after two consecutive seasons of returning the fewest combined total of starters in the conference. State will boast a talented quarterback who is leading the conference in passing efficiency to go along with a head coach who has a track record of winning 7-9 games for 80% of his tenure at Boston College. The 7+ win seasons started in his third year at BC after two losing seasons; hopefully a similar streak will start next year after what has been almost an identical start to Coach O’Brien’s tenure at NC State.

Making a bowl next year would go a long ways towards creating the momentum that our athletics department desperately needs right now. The Wolfpack’s schedule won’t be easy next season as we drop Miami from the Coastal Division, but add a game at Virginia Tech. Even Duke returns 23 seniors next year including their quarterback who might be the best player at his position in the conference.

According to this website, we still need to add a 12th game to the schedule next season. Knowing how much our athletic department values home games for revenue, there stands a stronger than average chance that a second game against a 1-AA team (or whatever that division is now called) will complete next year’s schedule.

The rules for bowl eligibility state that you can only count one win vs. a I-AA team per year. It also takes six wins to become bowl eligible, so NC State could essentially schedule ourselves into a situation where we only have eleven games to get those six wins. If we were able to add another Division 1 opponent, then we would have an additional game to get the sixth win to become bowl eligible.

Can revenue next year be more important to the athletics department than not giving our football program the best possible chance to participate in a bowl? It would seem like a smart business decision to do whatever is necessary to avoid at any cost adding another I-AA team to next year’s schedule. If that means writing someone a check to come to Carter Finley, then write the check. If that means going on the road to play a beatable Division 1 opponent, then let’s get ready for a road trip next year.

Looking at next season, here is the schedule:

-Need 1 more game
-Gardner Webb @ home
-USC @ home
-Pitt @ home
-Duke @ home
-VPI away
-UNC @ home
-Wake away
-BC away
-FSU away
-Maryland @ home
-Clemson @ home

This schedule included a trip to Greenville until Lee Fowler allowed Terry Holland to move that game to 2010 when ECU will have an expanded stadium, making it a more difficult environment for us to win. Having beaten ECU the last two season, what was Lee Fowler thinking letting this happen when our program was in this situation of needing a winnable Division 1 game?

NC State could be picked last in the Atlantic Division again next year. If Vegas were putting an over/under on next year’s win total at this point, then it couldn’t be more than 3-5 wins. Maybe winning three of our last four games this season would change the outlook, but at this point we are staring a 2-10, 0-8 season directly in the face.

As far as scheduling this additional game, NC State is the perfect opponent for anyone looking for an additional game. Schools are always looking to add a BCS team that has some type of name recognition (if for only being from a BCS conference) and a home game on top of that. There has to be a dozen or more division 1 teams that would thrilled to add us to their schedule. We wouldn’t want to add Oklahoma, USC or some other traditional power. The idea is to give yourself a good chance at a win and if that means going on the road to play one of the worst Division 1 teams in the nation, then get the game scheduled now. Any lost revenue is surely worth not putting this coaching staff, the NC State fanbase, and the administration through the frustrations of missing a bowl game for the fourth straight season and fifth time in six years.

Here is just a sample of Division 1 teams looking for an additional game next year that don’t already have a loaded OOC schedule:

*Washington St (1-7,0-5) Hawaii, ND, open, open (how about a rare trip to the West Coast?)
*Rutgers (2-2, 3-6) at Maryland, at Army, open, open (they need home games badly)
*Texas Christian (5-0, 8-1) Texas St, SMU, open, open (they are even a good team)
*Ohio U (1-3, 2-6) at N. Texas, UConn, at Tenn (let’s go on the road and get a win)
*Minn. (3-1, 7-1) Air Force, Cal, S. Dakota St, open (let’s play in their brand new stadium)
*Kentucky (1-3, 5-3) Louisville, E. Kentucky, open open (decent team, let’s sign a contract)
*E. Michigan (1-4, 2-7) Army, at NW, open open (buy a win or go to their stadium if that is what it takes)

There are several other options as well from that list. Now that WE have done all of the initial leg work for the ‘hard workers’ in Fowler’s Athletics Department, can someone please pick up the phone and see what can be negotiated with some of these teams? This is the perfect opportunity for Lee Fowler to step up and put the football program in a position to succeed next year. But why do I have this suspicion that there is already a plan in place to bring a second I-AA opponent to Carter Finley next year?

'08 Football AD & Department Chuck Amato General NCS Football Stat of the Day Tom O'Brien

47 Responses to Next year’s 12th football game

  1. Daily Update 10/29/2008 at 11:53 AM #

    There is nothing that could help our recruiting more than making a bowl game next year. At this point, “exposure” in OOC games is meaningless.

    I have never bought that argument anyways. “Winning” is what gets you exposure.

  2. Noah 10/29/2008 at 12:06 PM #

    Throw Amato under the bus if you would like but lets look at his last 2 full classes. His last class he was fired in Nov. – 2 full months of recruiting left. OL – Crouch, Williams, Palmer (didn’t qualify), Barbee, McCuller, Kline. QBs – Burke, Wilson. RBs – Eugene Baker, Brown. WRs – Bowens, Bond, Davis, Spencer, James. TE- Phillips. NOT TO BAD, huh?

    I think you’re mashing a couple of classes together. Crouch was not in the same class with those other guys, I don’t think. Also, you really need to bring in three or four OL every year.

    One, you’re going to miss on some and two, you really don’t want to play OL until they have been in your program for a couple of years.

    Amato had one class where he had exactly one OL (I think that was his last full class). He also had several classes that were almost entirely devoid of linebackers. And then we get into the attrition debate (oh boy) again.

    FWIW, Cincy is a good little ways from Athens, OH. Cincy is all the way down in the SW corner next to Kentucky. Athens is in the middle part of the state in farm country. Probably three or four hours away.

    I’d love to play AT Marshall. My father-in-law is an alum, lives right across the river from Huntington and is a season-ticket holder.

  3. Wolf Dog 10/29/2008 at 1:05 PM #

    That recruiting class with one O lineman really hurt. Clearly OCain left the program in better shape than CTC. I don’t want to bash CTC but he takes way too much credit for the facilities. Les Robinson should be given credit. We had already been selling out season tickets and raising money before CTC was hired. Les Robinson was very good at raising money and he had made a committment to upgrade no matter who we hired. Sheridan and O’Cain had been preaching it for years. I still believe if Sheridan or O’Cain had these facilities we would have built our program like VT. I never felt O’Cain or Sheridan got out coached as much as out manned. Which is how I feel now. CTC can keep claiming he built the house but it only makes him look worse as a coach cause we built it with him as the coach and the program along with recruiting went down not up.

    I hope the AD lets TOB make a scheduling decision here.

  4. BoKnowsNCS71 10/29/2008 at 1:47 PM #

    I think the main problem that CTC had was his total focus on defense, a revolving door on the offense in assistants, poor decisions on those new hires, and the loss of people who were top recruiters for us. That part comes down to being a manager and working with people and is less about coaching.

  5. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 10/29/2008 at 2:34 PM #

    Bo- Is it your claim that Duke has better talent than NC State? That Duke’s starters are as good or better than State 2nd team or 3 deep in those position State goes 3 deep. If so I want some of that smoke.

    Your entire pov will fall apart after State get trounced in Durham.

  6. thekind 10/29/2008 at 2:35 PM #

    Let’s compare CTC to TOB:
    Chuck:
    *coached only 10+ winning season in the history of State football
    *coached and recruited numerous NFL players
    *had the only #1 draft pick in the history of State football and the ACC
    *helped build facilites at State that are second to none
    * woke up State football fans aat a school that has always cared more about Bball
    * won 4 of 5 bowl wins in 7 years
    *opened a pipe line of talent from Florida

    TOB:
    * lose week after week
    *run the most boring offense in the country
    *recruit a boat load 2 and 3 star recruits
    *60 year ole Marine on the verge of retiring
    *No personality
    *Jack S#$%

  7. PackerInRussia 10/29/2008 at 2:38 PM #

    Just for fun (because it doesn’t take into account who survives each class and recruiting rankings don’t always play out the way they’re expected and they don’t always tell the whole story):

    Recruiting Rankings By Year According to Scout.com:

    2004:
    State–20
    Duke–65
    UNC–18

    2005:
    State–23
    Duke–31
    UNC–34

    2006:
    State–42
    Duke–36
    UNC–25

    2007:
    State–60
    Duke–64 (tie)
    UNC–14

    UNC’s rankings are included because they are often mentioned in the “Look what they’re doing in year ___” discussion. It shows that, at least in terms of recruiting rankings, other than 2004, Duke & UNC’s classes have been similar or better (sometimes significantly better) than State’s. Also, concerning Duke, I would imagine that they have retained a lot more players than State. Last of all, I’m sure that in a discussion of State football, a reminder of injuries is not needed.

  8. choppack1 10/29/2008 at 2:53 PM #

    “Bo- Is it your claim that Duke has better talent than NC State? That Duke’s starters are as good or better than State 2nd team or 3 deep in those position State goes 3 deep. If so I want some of that smoke.

    Your entire pov will fall apart after State get trounced in Durham.”

    I think his claim is that Duke’s talent is more mature – and in college football, that typically is a huge factor.

    I don’t know how we’ll do vs. Duke – I do know that I believe that Duke has been capable of beating us from 2004 to present…the only reason they didn’t was because we didn’t play them.

    Also, is it your prediction that Duke will trounce us?

  9. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 10/29/2008 at 2:53 PM #

    The Kind- Which NFL players did CTC recruit (I’ll give you Mario)? CTC lost his last 7 games and he won 10 plus games with MOC’s players not his own.

    I think you are rewriting history a bit. I think it is Noah that can point out how many NFL players were left to Amato vs. how many were left for TOB.

  10. PackerInRussia 10/29/2008 at 2:54 PM #

    thekind,

    I am assuming you are referring to State’s 21 players (some of whom were 2 and 3 * recruits and about 10 of whom were not recruited by Amato or were in his first class when he came in) in the NFL versus BC’s 22 (I believe all but 2 played for TOB; not sure how many he actually recruited).
    60 year old Marine “on the verge of retiring” vs. 62 year old on the verge of head exploding from arrogance
    Amato woke up State football fans at a school that had been put to sleep by basketball
    Record from 2002-2006 (ESPN didn’t go back further): 9 wins (bowl win), 8 wins (bowl win), 9 wins (bowl win), 9 wins (bowl win), 10 wins (bowl win)–yes, that is 10 wins which would have also tied that same CTC record. That would be 5 bowl wins in 5 years (slightly better than 4 of 5 in 7).
    It seems like we’re talking about the same people, but somehow it sounds different when you say it.

  11. 61Packer 10/29/2008 at 3:24 PM #

    First off, thekind’s comparison of Amato to O’Brien is truly amazing to me. O’Brien’s the first decent coach we’ve had here since Sheridan, and Amato’s only claim to fame is the stadium area upgrade. The man couldn’t coach his players or manage his staff, who came and went through a coaches’ revolving door. He was all glitz and hype, and I’m glad he’s gone. And please remember that Philip Rivers, the reason for most all of Amato’s wins, was recruited by Mike O’Cain. Tom O’Brien at least has brought some discipline to the program and we should be grateful to have him here. It’ll take time for him to build a program out of the rubble that Amato left us with, but he will. I think the type of player he recruits will be superior to those Amato brought in. I’d rather have football players than athletes anyday.

    As for the 12th game, the last thing we need is another FBS (1-AA) opponent. As an LTR ticketholder, I’m tired of the endless parade of smaller schools that Fouler (sic) has brought in here. We pay dues to see a home loss to Akron on the games’ last play under a blazing noon September sun so ESPN-U can show the nation how bad we are. Then when we get tired of seeing the Williams and the Marys, we can’t GIVE our tickets away. Cupcakes haven’t done one thing to make our program better and in fact have made it worse, because after we load up on these cupcakes to start each season, we’re not prepared for ACC play. And if you think our nonconference football schedule has been full of cupcakes, get a load of the upcoming basketball schedule. It’s no surprise we’re in last place in both sports, and the schedule is a large part of the blame.

    The Wolfpack could go to Eastern Michigan for the 12th football game, and while they’re there, could just about walk over to the Big House in Ann Arbor and see what scheduling a 1-AA school can do to your program if you get the wrong one. UM had no business playing an App State because the risk of losing one of those games was too great. I was there to see that game, and that loss planted deep seeds of self-doubt at UM. The program is now trying to change course from the style of football that helped the Wolverines become college football’s winningest team. And like the Pack, they’re 2-6 so far with no hope for the immediate future.

    We should play the best opponents we can get, home or away. Why should we upgrade our facilities and then play more small schools than ever? Our goal has seemingly become winning 6 games a season rather than building a program. I don’t mind playing one small school each season at home, but please Mr. Fouler (sic), please quit the EAPN-U menu and beef up our schedule for a change. Home or away, this is the only way we’re ever going to be good again.

  12. Noah 10/29/2008 at 3:32 PM #

    I think you are rewriting history a bit. I think it is Noah that can point out how many NFL players were left to Amato vs. how many were left for TOB.

    Off the top of my head — Levar Fisher, Brian Williams, Adrian Wilson, Corey Smith, Clayton White, Sean Locklear, Koren Robinson, Jarvis Borum, the tackle from Lawn Guyland who had the shoulder problems and whose name I’m totally blanking on, and Scott Kooistra.

    I don’t know whether to count Philip Rivers or not. Technically, Joe Pate and Mike O’Cain recruited him.

    Too early to see how many O’Brien was left.

    The fact is Chuck Amato took over a .500 team (we had gone 6-5, 7-5, and 6-6 in the three preceding years). It wasn’t great, but it wasn’t horrible. In Amato’s first two years, he managed to turn a .500 squad into a seven-win squad. Then he improved to nine wins (I’m not going to count the two I-AA wins) and dropped to eight wins…then went back to being a below-.500 squad.

    O’Brien didn’t take over a team good enough to go .500. Slight difference.

  13. choppack1 10/29/2008 at 4:28 PM #

    Noah – I think you’re thinking of Chris Colmer.

    One thing you have to give him credit for – he did move Locklear to the OL (and Shane Riggs) as well.

    I think Devonte Edwards and Lamont Reid may have been MOC recruits as well, but I’m not sure.

    Still – I do think Amato did a great job developing NFL talent on defense. The incredible D of 2004 included almost all Amato guys – Mario, Manny, McCargo, Tank, Demario, Tulloch, Hoyte, Maddox, AJ Davis, Pat Thomas, Marcus Hudson…Damn…

  14. Noah 10/29/2008 at 8:44 PM #

    Chris Colmer…yes.

    Edwards and Reid were definitely Amato recruits.

    Amato did a fine job…when he had a recruiting juggernaut with guys like Holliday, Joe Pate, Buddy Green, Chris Demarest, the young guy who went out to Arizona…

  15. Daily Update 10/29/2008 at 9:27 PM #

    Noah: You forgot Terrence Holt.

    He also had really, really good ACC players like Dantonia Burnette and Ray Robinson too.

  16. Wolf Dog 10/29/2008 at 10:08 PM #

    thekind? that post seemed more like a clear TOB attack than a rational comparison. Clearly you know little of Wolfpack football history. We had a great history of going to bowls before CTC was here. We had been selling out season tickets for years before CTC was here. We had already raised millions of dollars for upgrades and plans for improvements were in place before CTC was here.

    Was CTC all bad of course not. He did have some success and he did have some great players. CTC just didn’t have enough players and even though we built it, the wins didn’t come. CTC had heart, was emotional, and was his own biggest fan. He didn’t manage his staff well and they left for other jobs. Then the recruiting feel off, he never found a QB after Rivers, he hired the worst excuse (Trestman) for an OC I have ever seen, and then the loses came. I will never doubt that Chuck loves NCSU even almost as much as he loved himself. But no doubt he left a mess and it not fair to compare or blame TOB at this point.

  17. spanky 10/30/2008 at 2:25 AM #

    is thekind CTC??? just sayin…

  18. PackerInRussia 10/30/2008 at 6:10 AM #

    Speaking of State players in the NFL, Adrian Wilson was just “awarded” Dirtiest Player in the NFL (taking over the role vacated by Rodney Harrison) on Page 2. Go get ’em, tiger.

  19. PackMaestro-Original 10/30/2008 at 8:11 AM #

    I’m pretty sure during the ECU ScheduleGate scandal, that once ECU requested to drop our game, NC State announced it had secured a second i-aa team for 2009 (similar to FSU, Clemson did this year, among others) . There will be 8 home games in 2009, but only 6 in 2010.

  20. GAWolf 10/30/2008 at 8:54 AM #

    Terrence Holt was also a bit of an enigma if I recall correctly. He was more of a little brother of a NC State superstar who was offered a scholarship. Fortunately for us and him he worked his butt off and turned himself into a professional grade football player. He wasn’t hyped as such… but rather he took advantage of the opportunity provided him by the accomplishments of his elder brother.

    In other words, I don’t know that I would credit him so much as a great coaching find by whoever brought him to Raleigh. As in if Daniel Evans had developed into a Heisman worthy candidate would we really celebrate the recruiting accomplishment of the coach that “lured” him to Raleigh? I don’t know… just asking.

  21. Noah 10/30/2008 at 8:55 AM #

    Daily update – I KNEW I was forgetting someone in the secondary, but I had juxtaposed Brian Williams from corner to safety and couldn’t come up with the cornerback I had forgotten. My bad.

  22. Gene 11/02/2008 at 7:01 PM #

    Rutgers home-and-away series would be a good move. We’d get some exposure in NJ/NY/Southeastern PA by playing Rutgers.

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