Tarantini gaffe costs soccer team ACC victory (updated Wed am)

AD & Department General NC State Administration Non-Revenue71

The NC State soccer team has forfeited their only ACC victory this season over Boston College because they used an ineligible player. The information was out last week, however there is no explanation to be found on the NC State official website. The game story still has us winning, but the game has been changed on the schedule to reflect a 0-1 loss. The Technician coincidentally has a story today explaining the situation with quotes from Head Coach George Tarantini:

“It is certainly something we have never faced before,” Tarantini said. “We discussed the situation right away.”

The forfeit was due to the participation of an ineligible player. The ineligibility was based on the number of red cards the student athlete accumulated over the previous games played. According to Lindsey Rogers, associate director of media relations for the ACC, the ineligible player was determined by a self report to the NCAA from the N.C. State coaching staff.

We have highlighted the performance of the soccer program in the past. While Lee Fowler obviously doesn’t consider competing for titles in men’s soccer a requirement for employment at NC State, then is it too much to ask a coach to understand and follow the most basic rules of the game to not directly cost his kids a conference victory?

AD & Department General NC State Administration Non-Revenue

71 Responses to Tarantini gaffe costs soccer team ACC victory (updated Wed am)

  1. Greywolf 10/08/2008 at 11:48 PM #

    “As I am told by opposing fans all the time, we look like idiots.”

    I don’t talk to them all the time but when I talk to opposing fans, I commiserate with them if their team lost and wish them good luck next week or congratulate them if their team wins and wish them good luck next week. What I am told by opposing fans is “Thank, you.” Usually followed by some pleasantry in return.

    I suppose it’s a difference in style. Just like my opinion of how our AD conducts himself with regard to his public support or vote of confidence of coaches such as Amato when things are not going well. The student athletes who play for a coach deserve the support of the AD when things are not going well. The recruiting suffers when the AD publicly chastises a coach. When fans publicly clamor for a coanches head, recruiting tends to suffer. (See TOB comment about booing.)

    Personally, I think the ship took a left turn when MAF was run off by the faculty. That reflects the attitude of the Chancellor and the BOT. If Fowler had been smart or ambitious or not willing to honor his contract, he would have followed her out the door. (I can only guess how much you wish he had.)

    If you think any AD at NCSU is playing on a level playing field with UNC, you are disillusioned. There is no comparison. Compare Riddick Stadium with Kenan Stadium. (for you young bucks: Riddick, situated by the railroad, seated about 10,000 and was jammed between the University Laundry and a dorm or classroom bldg. Kenan Stadium was nestled in the pines on campus and seated over 50,000.) Butch Davis comes in and the Rams club doesn’t have to shake the donors, they decide to make state of the art improvements. Is UNC’s budget, appropriations, etc., ever less than NCSU or any other school in the system. That Dumpy-Freakin stadium of ECU’s is a good example.

    Try if you like to compare UNC’s standards with ours and you will think you are right because you give clever answers, but the playing field is not level. As far as Dougherty (sp) is concerned, it wasn’t his record that go him fired, it was his alleged treatment of his players and the complaints of parents. I suppose those who used the example of Badair firing Dougherty didn’t know that. I hope you don’t think Badair acted on his own, i.e., without upper level approval.

    I think we can win and be a far better athletic program than we are now. I don’t think we can attract a top-flight AD with second rate pay. I for sure don’t think the AD job at NCSU is very attractive at this time. And I don’t think Fowler is going to be fired because of the record of the teams. That may change IF the measures the Chancellor has for the AD’s success changes to won/lost record.

    As far as the comments that some of us think are so clever putting down our AD and athletics at NCSU intending to reflect poorly on the AD, “Let the floggings continue until morale improves.”

    Next time one of our recruiting classes is rated low, consider our contribution with our put-downs and our acrid remarks directed at our University and our athletics department.

    We don’t disagree in our opinion about the desirability of a more skilled and effective AD. We sure do disagree on the source of the problem and on the best way to rememdy it.

  2. Wulfpack 10/09/2008 at 7:27 AM #

    It’s all political, as everything else seems to be these days. Person A is just covering Person B’s ass to save his own. If you don’t think all of these decision makers are in bed together, take another look at it.

    And as far as the comparison with UNC goes, maybe that would suffice 20 years ago or so, but clearly, today the playing field is not level between the two schools. One hall of famer retires, they go through a few slow years, then just reload with another hall of famer. Then, they are able to lure a guy like Butch Davis, a proven winner who brings instant credibility and efficiency to the program. The non-revenue sports at UNC are off the charts. The school recruits on its very name. Coaching. Recruiting. Facilities. Marketing/national and even international image/media bias. Donor base, influential alumni, etc. I’m not saying we dont have SOME of those things, but they have it all over there and they have and are flying by us at warp speed.

  3. Chilkie 10/09/2008 at 8:26 AM #

    The really sad thing about this is that the soccer program has been so poorly organized and managed that this doesn’t surprise me. The expectation level of this sport at my alma mater has fallen to the level where there simply are no expectations.

  4. Wolf74 10/09/2008 at 8:28 AM #

    “Next time one of our recruiting classes is rated low, consider our contribution with our put-downs and our acrid remarks directed at our University and our athletics department.”

    Next time we have a low rated recruiting class, consider that our AD called the best fans in the ACC “lunatic fringe”. I would have fired one of my employees immediately for calling my customers anything remotely resembling that statement. Also, consider that he continues to like to hear himself on the radio and in interviews and to continue to put his foot in his mouth and make NCSU Athletics a laughing stock. Obviously the man and the BOT never learn!

  5. WV Wolf 10/09/2008 at 8:56 AM #

    There was a small article in the N&O today on the soccer forfeit and had this bit of information:

    “An N.C. State official contacted ACC media relations officials and was given an inaccurate opinion that Lassiter could play. Christy said rules officials should have been consulted instead.”

    Why in the world would you ask media relations about the elligibility of a player? That would be like me going to the HR department if my computer freezes up instead of calling IT. Just unbelievable.

  6. Scooter 10/09/2008 at 9:02 AM #

    Greywolf — this question is not a joke. Are you Lee Fowler?

    I’m married to a UNC grad (let the hatemail begin), so I have a pretty good perspective of what goes on at both my beloved NC State and the enemy.

    While you are correct that in terms of the size of the warchest, we are not able to compete with UNC at the current time (though I expect that to change over the next 10-20 years). In terms of employing an athletic director that knows how to conduct himself professionally, someone who runs an effective program, and someone who markets that program effectively, I don’t think there is any question that we can compete. Having an effective Athletic Director has NOTHING TO DO with money. I don’t think that just because our endowment is smaller than UNCs that we should settle for poor management and poor leadership.

    Grey, I disagree with you completely on Mary Ann Fox. I was a student while she was at State and while she did everything she could to make student life un-fun, she cared about the performance of our athletics AND academics. I think she understood that universitys can build their brands with successful athletics (see Davidson’s enrollment after their Sweet 16 appearance the year). Building the university’s brand will help athletics, but will also help the academic side of the university by making our university a house-hold name. What I liked most about Mary Ann Fox is that she did not tolerate failure.

    What bugs me most about our AD and Chancellor is that they have reverted to an old tactic that is a proven failure — when a problem occurs, throw money at it (manifested in this case by the dire need for new facilities for all of our failing programs). THIS DOES NOT WORK. What we need is a hands-on Athletic Director who is willing to put in the time to make an HONEST assessment of the current state of our athletics programs and make changes (sweeping when necessary) where they are needed. Lee Fowler has proven over his tenure that he is content with failure.

  7. Classof89 10/09/2008 at 9:41 AM #

    I can come to no other conclusion other than that our soccer programs (men and women) are some sort of athletic scholarship social welfare program for marginal high school soccer talent. Having a successful or competitive program seems to have gone out the window years ago…

    And as for all this gobbledeguck above about hiring and firing of coaches…NC is an at-will employment state–you can fire someone for any reason, or no reason at all. Period. The protections afforded state employees do not apply to coaches, because they are hired pursuant to an employment contract. When Mr. Tarantini’s contract is up, no reason or justification is required to end his term of employment.

  8. jmartineau 10/09/2008 at 9:47 AM #

    It appears that this thread has derailed. Back on topic, there is no excuse for a coach missing this! None whatsoever!

    This breakdown in “managing” a team is unbelievable (ok, not for our soccer program). I think WV Wolf hit the nail on the head with his comment about calling the media relations person. I doubt it was George who made the call, but with a forfeitable type decision on the line he should have ensured that the proper steps were followed. I would be pissed if a volunteer school coach made this mistake, but a well paid D1 coach making this screw up? Pissed beyond words.

    Should Tarantini be forced out over this alone? No. Should he be fired because this is just one more thing? Yes.

  9. wufpup76 10/09/2008 at 10:59 AM #

    “If you think any AD at NCSU is playing on a level playing field with UNC, you are disillusioned.”

    I don’t disagree w/ you or others who are making this point at all, but should this really be used as an excuse or should something be done about it?

    It takes strong leaders to do something about a situation like that – is that what we have?

    Also, I didn’t say anything at all about Baddour firing Doherety or any of the reasons why Doherety got removed – learn to read before you flame others (as you do with almost all of your posts) … The point was *if* the Holes don’t get Williams and the next head coach comes in and does a substandard job who’s head is going to roll? Erskine Bowels? The entire BOT? No – Dick freaking Baddour b/c he, as AD, is the focal point of athletics at that University whether he has authority to fire, hire, etc, or not … You make it seem as if the AD has 0 responsibility – why even have the position? The way you’re talking we might as well bring back Todd Turner to run things – it wouldn’t hurt, right?

    To another end, you continue to take personal shots and belittle people who post on here – are you 12? I’m not sure why this is allowed to continue. I can disagree with people without intimating that they are stupid or otherwise worthless – yet this seems to be your entire reason for logging on and posting here. I think I can count on one hand the number of posts you have made that aren’t attacking another user on here. I can get personal too, but there’s really no need to over the internet. What are you trying to prove and who are you trying to prove it to?

  10. Wolf74 10/09/2008 at 12:23 PM #

    “You make it seem as if the AD has 0 responsibility – why even have the position?”

    Didn’t Vandy do something like this very recently? And they appear to be pretty successful for a private school in the SEC. My position is, if like Greywolf hints at, the AD has little responsibility for and virtually no control over the performance of his employees – eliminate the position. Then take the salary and spread it around to the coaches. This would have to be a far superior method that what is currently going on.

  11. Wulfpack 10/09/2008 at 1:49 PM #

    “Why in the world would you ask media relations about the elligibility of a player?”

    Because a rep of the media relations department keeps the official score.

  12. wufpup76 10/09/2008 at 2:09 PM #

    ^Todd Turner was at Vandy as well (directly after leaving NCSU), and under his leadership the athletics dept. was “restructured” into something like the “Office of Student Atheletics and Recreation” – or something like that … His position was eliminated as Vandy essentially combined their Intramurals and Athletics Dept.s … I’m unsure if Vandy has since reorganized their athletics dept. or had an AD since, but I don’t think they have

    Turner “left” Vandy and went to Washington, where he was subsequently forced out a few years later … In fact, the firetoddturner com website is still up that was started by some UW fans

    That’s an awful lot of activity for someone who holds a position with little responsibility and no control over anything

  13. ovalhead 10/09/2008 at 2:58 PM #

    An objective look at the stats – compiled from the soccer media guide:

    Let’s start with his record over the last 10 years, which will give us an accurate indication of his success in recent history:

    Total Games Played: 186

    Wins: 66
    Losses: 105
    Ties: 15

    In summary, he earns a victory in 35.5% of his games, the pack lost 56.5% of the matches & sneaks by w/ a tie in 8% of the games.

    Record against ACC teams in the last 10 years –

    Total ACC Games Played in the last 10 Years: 67

    Wins: 11
    Losses: 50
    Ties: 6

    In summary, he earns a victory in 16% of ACC matches, losses 74.5% of those games, and has tied 9% of ACC games over the last 10 years.

    Tarantini’s Career Record:

    Total Games Played (1986-2008): 414
    Wins: 204 (49%)
    Losses: 174 (42%)
    Ties: 36 (9%)

    Most soccer aficionados would recognize that many regular season games are played against weaker opponents, so lets take a look at how Tarantini fared against ACC competition:

    Total ACC Games Played: 139
    Wins: 42 (30%)
    Losses: 82 (59%)
    Ties: 15 (10%)

    My personal thoughts:
    It’s hard to imagine how the NCSU athletic department could keep a coach that has not won more than half of his games over the last 21 years. On top of that, they have a coach that has lost nearly 60% of games against his own conference over his career with the Wolfpack. Additionally, and likely more telling, the current athletic department continues to employ Tarantini when he has lost nearly 60% of his games in the last ten years & has lost almost 75% of the games he’s played against ACC opponents.

  14. redfred2 10/09/2008 at 7:17 PM #

    But ovalhead, you don’t understand, haven’t you been listening to the conversation? NC State, excuse me, the BOT, screens and hires people to fill certain positions in those folks chosen fields of employment. But after they’re chosen and have been picking up their checks courteousy of NC State University for awhile, then at that time there is apparently no longer any requirement whatsoever for those same employees to be even halfway competent in those chosen fields. If you’re following the conversation, he’s telling you that those administrators don’t even have any power to affect the quality of their own job places anyway. He’s also saying that the ATHLETICS DIRECTOR doesn’t really have anything to do with ATHLETICS, but rather his job is more involved with policing academics and keeping things squeaky clean.

    So, I guess if you really want to know about athletics, and who is ultimately responsible for all the different sports programs at NC State, then you’re best bet is probably to ask an NCSU calculus professor, because if that’s the way it works, then that calculus professor sure as hell doesn’t have anything to do with math.

  15. Greywolf 10/09/2008 at 8:44 PM #

    Greywolf says,
    “Personally, I think the ship took a left turn when MAF was run off by the faculty.”

    Then Scooter says,
    “Grey, I disagree with you completely on Mary Ann Fox. I was a student while she was at State and while she did everything she could to make student life un-fun, she cared about the performance of our athletics AND academics.”

    Scooter, could you tell me how you are disagreeing with me? This is prototypical of SFN comments. The commenter has preconceived opinion on a subject and misrepresents the opinion of the person he is arguing with.

    For those of you who are talking at me with hate for the AD and accusing me of supporting and defending him, read this from my post above: “We don’t disagree in our opinion about the desirability of a more skilled and effective AD. We sure do disagree on the source of the problem and on the best way to rememdy it.”

    I also think the PUBLIC expressions of what a lousy athletics you think we have and how irrelevent NCSU is in athletics, plays right in the hands of rival recruiters and is horrible for student athletes considering NCSU to read. We can’t blame our words on the AD.

  16. turfpack 10/09/2008 at 10:39 PM #

    How about State having winning fricking athletic programs.
    THAT HAS A HELL OF ALOT OF BEARING ON WHAT RECUITS,THE MEDIA AND FANS THINK OF THE PROGRAM. SOME OF THESE FAN PAY ALOT OF MONEY TO ATTEND THESE EVENTS-THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY WHAT THEY EXPECT OF THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT.

  17. WolftownVA81 10/10/2008 at 6:44 AM #

    Sometimes, the truth hurts and living in denial doesn’t help. As the politicians are fond of saying, you can’t put lipstick on a pig.

  18. Scooter 10/10/2008 at 1:19 PM #

    @Grey — I misread your Mary Ann Fox comment. We are in agreement that she should have stayed.

    Regarding The Great AD Debate, I think the fans can be behind the teams, as we are every Saturday afternoon or Thursday night, and against the AD. Recruits see the fans in the seats. Recruits see the passion of the fan base. What they don’t see are winning teams across the board at NC State (cross country excepted). If certain areas are flagging, I think you can call some of them isolated incidents. When the entire program appears to be in laying dead in a drainage ditch, you have to start looking upwards. The next responsible person is Lee Fowler who has every authority to mend fences by coaching change or other avenues. He has allowed these programs to falter. At the same time he demands more money from the fans, takes an inordinate amount of vacation, and is one phone call to 850 The Buzz away from making fools of us every week of the year. His conduct is unprofessional and I think HE MUST GO.

    Now I am done with this thread because the crashing stock market has made me depressed.

  19. redfred2 10/10/2008 at 7:29 PM #

    Greywolf4ever, all I can say is that I have my hopes set higher than the level of mediocrity that this NC State administration has shown to be competent of, and totally contented with. Also, in all of your fretting about what a young kid/recruit may think after reading a post on SFN, I don’t see where you take into account what that kid may need or want out of his/her ONE college career. What I’m taking from your posts here, is that we all know and accept the fact that there dire need for change at NC State, but we should just keep it hush hush, in hopes that those kids will sign on and somehow change all of this mess for us.

    Good luck with that.

    Meanwhile, we will continue to watch as our coaches struggle to bring in the necessary talent, then if they are lucky to persuade these kids to sign on in the first place, we can then cross our fingers in hopes that by some miracle they’ll want to stick around for more than one season.

    I’m talking about a fundamental and absolute change in attitudes as they relate to ALL athletics at NCSU. There has to be a totally different climate and a passion for athletics at the very top of the foodchain, where a commitment to excellence in athletics is openly discussed and pursued, rather than seemingly threatening to anyone who holds high office in West Raleigh. Until there are changes made along those lines, then we are all just hoping upon hope, and forever pissing into the wind.

    You can have all the facilities in the world, great fans, and plenty of money, but…

    I think we all should be well aware of that fact by now.

  20. redfred2 10/10/2008 at 8:03 PM #

    NC State has got to stop to being the goody two shoes, the boy scouts, and the whipping boy of the ACC, and regardless of the pecking order that’s been established and is NOW accepted as if that’s the way it’s SUPPOSED to be, and AS IF it has ALWAYS been that way. It is simply NOT TRUE and somebody needs to develop a bad case of the chip on the shoulder. They should promote that feeling from within, and in every one of the offices of administration in West Raleigh. NC State is at it’s best when it sets itself apart, not when it becomes overly obsessed with fitting someone else’s mold.

    That’s IT, I’m done.

  21. turfpack 10/10/2008 at 10:51 PM #

    Redfred-very good points-I agree totally

    Check list— 1st= coach- done
    2nd= facilities- done
    3rd= recuits- being done
    4th= replace A.D,-should be done
    5th= stop thinking were the blue’s stepsister- will be done
    6th= cut loose crappy coaches-see#4
    7th=climb back to the top-see#1,2,3,4,5,6-has to be done

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