TOB Comments on the booing; Caulton Tudor gets it right

AD & Department Fans General Media NC State Administration NCS Basketball NCS Football Required Reading81

A question about the boos in Carter Finley Stadium was bound to be asked, so Tom O’Brien had no choice but to respond last night on his weekly radio show hosted at Sullivan’s in Raleigh.

Coach Tom O’Brien talked about how annoyed he was with the fan’s reactions to Evans play on his weekly radio show.

“It’s pretty frustrating to listen to people boo thinking it’s going to make somebody better,” O’Brien said Tuesday “By booing somebody, you don’t make them better.”

O’Brien went on to talk about how the boos could be a turnoff to potential recruits who attend games.

“I think it was a bad situation, and hopefully we’ll be smarter than that in the future,” O’Brien said.

The intention of this entry isn’t to promote discussion of Tom O’Brien’s comments, but rather to point out some very impressive statistics regarding the supporters of NC State athletics. We did this earlier in the year when NC State fans were one of the few highlights of Lee Fowler’s annual report, but with the recent criticism from at least one member of the local media this seemed like a good time to revisit some of this information. Considering the results of NC State’s athletic department under the leadership of Lee Fowler, some people might be quite surprised to find that NC State fans have been supporting their programs in record numbers by almost every measure.

–NC State supporters ranked 9th among BCS programs in annual donations in 2006.

–NC State supporters ranked 14th among BCS programs in capital donations the five years prior to 2006.

–NC State fans have sold out Carter Finley for 8 consecutive seasons despite the program hitting an almost half century low point in 2006 with a 3-9 record. You have to go all the way back to 1959 (1-9, .100) to find an NC State football team with a worse overall winning percentage.

–Actual attendance (not visual estimates like in Chapel Hill) has essentially been at 100% capacity since the 2000 football season. Here are the numbers for 2008.

–NC State fans have ranked #7, #17, #20, #19, #16, #13, #17, #18, #16 in basketball attendance since the 2000 season. In 2008, NC State fans averaged 15,043 which was the 2nd highest total in the history of the program despite the team not making the post-season.

How happy would NC State fans be if the basketball program had half that number of top 20 finishes?

–NC State fans made the Wolfpack Club one of five booster organizations in the country to exceed 20,000 members this year.

–In the 2007/2008 athletic year, NC State fans set school records in football tickets sold (37,500), revenue from football tickets sold ($10.75 million), and revenue from basketball tickets sold ($5.6 million).

–Additionally, NC State fans donated the second highest total in our history ($25.4 million). This was a combination of an all-time high in annual donations ($10.0 million), the 2nd highest total in capital giving ($13.7 million), and what appears to be an all-time high in endowment giving ($1.8 million).

Caulton Tudor of the Raleigh News & Observer had an original take on our quarterback situation today and at the same time took the opportunity to stick up for NC State fans. Thanks Caulton!

N.C. State coach Tom O’Brien’s decision to start Russell Wilson over Harrison Beck at quarterback on Saturday in Clemson likely will be debated by many Wolfpack fans right up to game time and possibly after the closing bell.

It should be, too. Based on Beck’s performance in last weekend’s win over William & Mary, there’s a legitimate argument for sticking with him. And if there’s ever been a fan base deserving of a voice, it’s the Wolfpackers. Their loyalty — in football and basketball — is far beyond the call of duty.

AD & Department Fans General Media NC State Administration NCS Basketball NCS Football Required Reading

81 Responses to TOB Comments on the booing; Caulton Tudor gets it right

  1. mafpack 09/10/2008 at 9:23 PM #

    Great post, we need to keep repeating this until the media and/or our Alumni representatives start to pick up on and appreciate this kind of active fan support. If they’re not careful, they could be looking at support more reminiscent of the last decade of Duke football.

    Not sure how I feel about TOB’s response. I really do like the man and I love what he’s brought to this program, but I really felt like the boos were directed at the coaching staff for forcing DE to continue playing when it was obvious to all of us that he was done. Maybe that was just me. I really wished DE could have worked out for us, such a great story/history there, but I’m proud to have RW in the back field – go pack!

    One last thought to throw in with regards to this statement:
    “Speaking of farmers and mechanics, we don’t need piss ants insulting us by their making fun of Fowler’s country roots, either. Most of the money raised by the WPC comes from “farmers and mechanics.” Unless we got a law school or med school over night.”

    Nope no law school or med schools, but considering less than 1/6 of NCSU graduates in the past 10 years have anything to do with being a farmer or a mechanic (unless you’re referring to mechanical engineers of course) shooting back this kind of reply shows an ignorance of the University as it currently exists imho. Country roots or no, doesn’t much matter to me, but we’re not just farmers on tractors and haven’t been for quite some time… mind not spreading that nasty little rumor anymore? Thanks 🙂

  2. Noah 09/10/2008 at 9:31 PM #

    There is no present or future, only the past, happening over and over again, now.

  3. coyotejoe 09/10/2008 at 10:11 PM #

    It seems that mafpack is somewhat occupied with demographics. When did being a farmer on a tractor become a “nasty little rumor”? Managing a multi-million dollar farming operation requires the ability to be much more diverse and talented than one merely sitting in a cubicle and bitching about a football game.

  4. bring_back_rivers 09/10/2008 at 10:13 PM #

    What folks are failing to mention is how Caulton Tudor has been kissing up to NCSU the past few seasons after dissing them for most of his career. The N&O has been hemorrhaging subscribers, many fed up with the UNC-led propaganda of Tudor so Tudor has had to quickly write these “feel good” articles about NCSU as ordered to him by his editors. With their falling readership, it’s only a matter of time before the N&O goes under and dinosaurs like Tudor are led off to the nursing home. Lest we forget, it was Mickey McCarthy and Tudor that blasted Sheridan during the 80’s as UNC was suffering with Mack “Mr. Football” Brown. McCarthy was eventually fired.

  5. redfred2 09/10/2008 at 10:17 PM #

    mafpack, great post!!! I was typing at the same time with many of the very same thoughts, but I lost the entire post right when I hit the submit button. ???

    I have many thoughts here but first, I absolutely DID NOT appreciate TOB’s response. He knew this topic would arise and he should been more than prepared to deliver a better response. He and his staff sent A QUARTERBACK, who just happens to be named Daniel Evans, back out onto the field with nothing else to offer him and when it was totally apparent to everyone that that quarterback wasn’t comfortable enough to be effective or get his job done. Coach O’Brien had another option at the QB position and it shouldn’t have been too hard for him, or someone else on his staff, to see this reaction coming from the fans.

    If TOB wants to make a point to a player (Beck), then make it every minute of every hour over the other six days of the week, but on gameday, you play the players on the roster that give the best chance to win the ballgame. I have/had no problem with Daniel Evans starting that game, or even the game this weekend for that matter, if that’s what the staff decides, but when it becomes so blatently apparent that he is NOT going to get it done on that particular day, then get him out of there for HIS sake, as well as the sake of his teammates. Besides, if they want Evans’ work ethic and desire to be an example to the rest of the team, they had/have the option of sitting him down for awhile, let him try to calm and get his wits together in order to give that kid a better chance to perform. This isn’t baseball, Evans can go back into the game at any time the staff chooses to put him back into the game.

    On a different point, as far the “blind” loyalty that has garnered NC State it’s great financial status, that loyalty, as well as the money that makes it all possible, is coming mainly from a previous generation that still has a basic idea of what NC State athletics once were.

    James Oblinger and Lee Fowler are steadily erasing all of those types of memmories for the next generations of successful mechanical engineers, pig farmers, or whatever vocation the next group of NC State graduates/donors may choose.

    Also, since we fans aren’t there at the pracice sessions and don’t really know what goes on, and yet some people say Beck hasn’t earned a start on Saturday, basing that statement solely on what they’ve seen only on gamedays, then I’ll ask, who else of the three, has really EARNED that spot???

  6. Greywolf 09/10/2008 at 11:08 PM #

    “but we’re not just farmers on tractors and haven’t been for quite some time… mind not spreading that nasty little rumor anymore? Thanks”

    So you didn’t get the farmers and mechanics in quotes which included Forestry, Textiles, the whole spectrum of engineering, food science, etc. The point was and is, to cut out insulting State Fans from rural areas and those of us in the city with rural roots. That NCSU is not yet a liberal Arts school is not a “nasty little rumor.” And while the big-bucks contributors are not doing the work today, most of them are down to earth men and women not more than one generation off the farm or out of a textile or some other factory. Insult MF all you want, but please don’t insult the majority of NCSU WPC big donors while you do it. 🙂

    “Nope no law school or med schools, but considering less than 1/6 of NCSU graduates in the past 10 years have anything to do with being a farmer or a mechanic”

    I wonder how many of that 5/6 has its student loans paid off yet or shows up at the RBC for basketball games.

  7. Daily Update 09/11/2008 at 4:32 AM #

    A couple of comments to hopefully keep the discussions directed towards the many positive accomplishments of NC State supporters this decade:

    1. I am not rationalizing the booing that occurred at CF. Ideally that wouldn’t have happened as Choppack explains. Let’s move on.

    2. We should basically disregard TOB’s comments. We booed, the question was going to be asked, and he had to respond. Again, move on.

    3. The point of this entry again was to document the incredible levels of support our programs have received from NC State fans.

  8. mafpack 09/11/2008 at 6:02 AM #

    LoL – Grey that last jest “nasty little rumor” was said entirely tongue-in-cheek. I graduated with several friends who were in the AgBusiness School who went back home, down east, to help manage their father’s farms. And we’re not talking 3 acres and a mule, these guys functioned more like MBAs than most MBAs do, managing farms with thousands upon thousands of acres and hundreds of employees – annual operating budgets larger than most mid-sized corporations. My point was simply that unless you’ve got numbers in front of you to prove who each and every major WPC donor is, throwing around statements like this probably isn’t a great idea.

    Daily – I absolutely agree. Wish it hadn’t happened (I’m not a fan of booing in any situation truthfully… makes me sick to my stomach when I have to sit through others doing it) but now its time to move on and support the team come Saturday. And Dear Lord, please let RW stay healthy … please?

  9. VaWolf82 09/11/2008 at 6:36 AM #

    The athletic programs and athletics in general were in serious trouble when LF got here.

    What facts do you have to support this assertion?

    When the AD was in “trouble”, the university hired Todd Turner, Les Robinson, and Mike O’Cain. That was long before LF was hired.

  10. thekind 09/11/2008 at 6:42 AM #

    I was at the game and I never thought that Daniel was getting bood. I felt the boos were directed at TOB and his offense.
    Lets face it, TOB was the only person in the 60,000+ there that thought the Daniel should remain in.
    And people keep talking about how great TOB is.

  11. haze 09/11/2008 at 7:23 AM #

    Again, it couldn’t be more clear that DE was in to man a vanilla run offense. The coaches tried this until it became painfully clear that W&M was going to put 8 guys in the box, all night long. Fine. Gotta throw, put in the thrower. Beck comes in, plays pretty well, we get the easy win and WE SHOWED CLEMSON ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of substance.

    A boring win was the goal. A boring win was had. Beck showed his talent (TD’s, 1st downs) and his limitations (pick-6, 2 others that could/should have been picked). However, with Wilson ready, now it’s time to run the offense that the August practices prepared us to run. It still may not be that great of an offense but who really knows? Regardless, keeping Clemson in the dark was the right move.

  12. PackerInRussia 09/11/2008 at 7:26 AM #

    Unrelated, but Kay Yow gets some love on ESPN regarding her charity golf event.

    http://snipurl.com/3p95g

  13. papackman 09/11/2008 at 7:30 AM #

    TOB assumes the booing was directed at DE and not at him or DB. Must think he deserves it. Poor performance on the field and lousy records don’t do much for recruiting either. Give us something to cheer for then there will be no room for booing!!!!

  14. partialqualifier 09/11/2008 at 8:16 AM #

    Brief Memo to TOB:

    1- We weren’t booing the players, but rather the dumbasses who think DE is a legitimate D-I QB…and continue to play him despite three years worth of evidence of failure!

    2- I would think our booing had less impact on recruits than watching an ACC team go 7 possessions w/o a 1st Down against Bill & Mary….or that same team on national television getting blown off the face of the earth by a middle of the road SEC team. Maybe all of those who booed should stay home when ECU comes to town and we’ll see how impressed recruits are with a half full Carter-FInley!

  15. RAWFS 09/11/2008 at 8:25 AM #

    Season tickets: $300 apiece. (we’ll count a pair, who buys just one?)
    Wolfpack Club: $300 a year, minimum to get season tickets.
    Parking: $75
    Lifetime Rights: $200 a year, per seat

    Total PER season ticket pair: At least $1375.

    But Wolfpack fans are supposed to be patient this year.

    Again.

    After being patient LAST year.

    After tolerating the year before, with all of its misery.

    And the year before that.

    When, pray tell, WHEN are Wolfpack fans allowed to have had enough and be allowed to vocally express their displeasure with less than mediocre results?

    Oh, that’s right, we’re supposed to “just pay up and shut up.” Or we’re lunatics. Or unreasonable. Or just plain daggone mean.

    Sheesh, if they think that NC State fans are bad, try Tuscaloosa. Or Ann Arbor. Or Knoxville.

    Look, I understand it’s pretty rough to boo a college kid. I personally thought from my vantage point up in Section 11 that almost all of the boos were directed towards the coaches for leaving an ineffective QB in the game when it was clear to all ~60,000 people that Evans wasn’t going to get it done. But that’s just me — all I was was there, after all.

  16. ChuckAllYall 09/11/2008 at 8:30 AM #

    If you want to Boo someone, then Boo me!!!

    I’m a man…..I’m forty!!!

  17. Daily Update 09/11/2008 at 8:31 AM #

    At this point, any and all frustrations should be directed at the people who have been at NC State for longer than 2 seasons. Start with Lee Fowler and go up from there.

  18. burnbarn 09/11/2008 at 8:32 AM #

    Have to like Tudor calling out the tarheels today.. it is time for them to show something.

    BTW, subscriber rates are up at the Blow. Ad revenue is way down.

  19. Greywolf 09/11/2008 at 8:42 AM #

    VaWolf82
    “When the AD was in “trouble”, the university hired Todd Turner, Les Robinson, and Mike O’Cain. That was long before LF was hired.”

    ‘Trouble’ may have been a bad choice of words. Perhaps ‘sucked,’ would have been better. I take it from your statement above that you think Turner, Robinson and O’Cain (I didn’t realize O’Cain was an AD here) had the Athletics Department in good if not great shape and LF has screwed things up or has failed to aleviate the problems.

    Again, I am not defending LF or his record at NCSU. I do wonder what could be driving intense efforts here to keep SFN participants whipped up against LF. Surely not the belief that the BOT will read these comments and be inspired to bring in some top-rated AD as some one of the more naive posters recently suggested would happen. Our BOT and Chancellor simply do not have the commitment to excellence in athletics to cause that to happen.

    If the hiring and firing authority rested solely with the AD, I could get behind all the finger-pointing, the evidence presented here on SFN that LF is not doing his duty, the accusations that complacency amongst coaches with losing records is simply because LF will not fire them (if he could fire them) when they fail to produce.

    Turning a ship as big as the Athletics Department of major University around and becoming a top 10 or 25 nationally or top 1 or 2 in the conference is not a one or two year or maybe even a decade proposition IMO. NCSU faces some of the same road blocks that the Carolina Hurricanes face: tradition is not on their or our side. Top flight coaches are not clamoring to coach the Canes or the Wolfpack. Would Nick Saban have come here to coach football even if we could have matched his salary at Alabama?

    Lee Fowler is a viable target for criticism, however, the blatant unfairness of some of the criticism — e.g. not firing coaches he has no authority to fire — has actually had me defend LF for that which I would not normally defend. I just cannot in good concience berate him for not doing that which I know he has no authority to do. We criticize the job he is doing without knowing what his job is. We only have our opinion of what his job is.

    I know this flies in the face of all the Site Admin believes and I surely don’t want to create an adversarial relationship with you or those guys. Maybe we should agree to disagree. You seem to think that the ADept was in good shape before LF came and LF has f***ked it up. I think we have been a second tier athletic program the 65 years I’ve been a State Fan. We have had some individule team success but not overall excellence.

    I think we are laying the foundation for a first tier athletic program and we are doing it the right way. Excellent facilities guarantee nothing and without excellent facilities it’s and up hill battle. Good quality coaches (like O’Brian) who build on the good academic programs available are essential as is treating athletes with respect and holding them accountable for their on and off field behavior. If it was easy, all academic institutions would be top 10. Firing coaches and bringing in replacements without the foundation is like putting lipstick on a turd.

    “The floggings will continue until morale improves.”

  20. Daily Update 09/11/2008 at 9:03 AM #

    Greywolf: What foundation is being built here? What evidence do you have that Lee Fowler is building the foundation that you speak of? Your post and comments couldn’t be any more incorrect and totally lack any kind of supporting evidence.

    Why doesn’t the athletic director have the authority to make personnel changes?

  21. BillyTheKid 09/11/2008 at 9:03 AM #

    Thank you Greywolf, Thank you! And I’m 100% sure that no one else here has 65 years of perspective to draw from!!!

  22. VaWolf82 09/11/2008 at 9:06 AM #

    I take it from your statement above that you think Turner, Robinson and O’Cain (I didn’t realize O’Cain was an AD here) had the Athletics Department in good if not great shape and LF has screwed things up or has failed to aleviate the problems.

    You know good and well that’s not what I meant. Turner was brought in as AD and he hired Les immediately and MOC after Sheridan retired. (Hiring Les as an AD had nothing to do with the AD being in trouble. That move was a function of having two people that needed to be replaced….Turner as AD and Les as BB coach.)

    I think we are laying the foundation for a first tier athletic program and we are doing it the right way.

    The most important part of doing it the right way is hiring the right coaches. There is little/no evidence that LF will make the hard decisions when it comes to removing underperforming coaches. That’s part of the AD’s job….not the whole job, but an important part none the less.

  23. GoldenChain 09/11/2008 at 9:12 AM #

    Dang, blind loyalty, record booster giving, sell-outs despite losing records…..we’re starting to act like South Carolina fans!!!!!!!

  24. RAWFS 09/11/2008 at 9:20 AM #

    NCSU faces some of the same road blocks that the Carolina Hurricanes face: tradition is not on their or our side. Top flight coaches are not clamoring to coach the Canes or the Wolfpack.

    Bad example. First of all, Peter Laviolette is a top-flight coach, secondly, he would be hired within days of leaving the Carolina Hurricanes, and third, the Carolina Hurricanes have won the Stanley Cup and played for it one other time all within the last seven years. There are lots of teams with more so-called tradition that have not sniffed the Cup in the past decade: Boston, Toronto, both Original Six franchises, Philly for another. Take a look at the Canes banners inside the RBC and you will see division, conference and world titles. Nahhh, no tradition at all.

    25 nationally or top 1 or 2 in the conference is not a one or two year or maybe even a decade proposition IMO.

    Decades, even?

    1989 — or nineteen years, for those of you scoring at home — is the length of time since NC State has won its conference in either revenue sport.

  25. Dr. BadgerPack 09/11/2008 at 9:21 AM #

    “There is little/no evidence that LF will make the hard decisions when it comes to removing underperforming coaches.”

    Based on his previous “searches” I would guess that outside of basketball and football, Fowler wouldn’t have a clue as to hire a new coach in another sport; which is a problem. Let’s say we needed a volleyball coach (insert joke here). Fowler should have a list of 10-20 candidates for any sport; including up-and-comers. I’d bet that isn’t the case, and perhaps that plays into the reluctance to fire. I’d say I know more volleyball coaching prospect than Fowler just from riding coach on airplans around holiday tournaments (I’ve had the pleasure of sitting by assistants from 4 different schools).

    Heck, I know 5 young women’s basketball coaches. Incidentally, 2 said they wouldn’t want to work at State. One because of Fowler (it’s a Stephanie Glance thing), one because she wouldn’t want to immediately follow Yow (guess I can’t blame her there.)

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