TOB Comments on the booing; Caulton Tudor gets it right

A question about the boos in Carter Finley Stadium was bound to be asked, so Tom O’Brien had no choice but to respond last night on his weekly radio show hosted at Sullivan’s in Raleigh.

Coach Tom O’Brien talked about how annoyed he was with the fan’s reactions to Evans play on his weekly radio show.

“It’s pretty frustrating to listen to people boo thinking it’s going to make somebody better,” O’Brien said Tuesday “By booing somebody, you don’t make them better.”

O’Brien went on to talk about how the boos could be a turnoff to potential recruits who attend games.

“I think it was a bad situation, and hopefully we’ll be smarter than that in the future,” O’Brien said.

The intention of this entry isn’t to promote discussion of Tom O’Brien’s comments, but rather to point out some very impressive statistics regarding the supporters of NC State athletics. We did this earlier in the year when NC State fans were one of the few highlights of Lee Fowler’s annual report, but with the recent criticism from at least one member of the local media this seemed like a good time to revisit some of this information. Considering the results of NC State’s athletic department under the leadership of Lee Fowler, some people might be quite surprised to find that NC State fans have been supporting their programs in record numbers by almost every measure.

NC State supporters ranked 9th among BCS programs in annual donations in 2006.

NC State supporters ranked 14th among BCS programs in capital donations the five years prior to 2006.

NC State fans have sold out Carter Finley for 8 consecutive seasons despite the program hitting an almost half century low point in 2006 with a 3-9 record. You have to go all the way back to 1959 (1-9, .100) to find an NC State football team with a worse overall winning percentage.

Actual attendance (not visual estimates like in Chapel Hill) has essentially been at 100% capacity since the 2000 football season. Here are the numbers for 2008.

NC State fans have ranked #7, #17, #20, #19, #16, #13, #17, #18, #16 in basketball attendance since the 2000 season. In 2008, NC State fans averaged 15,043 which was the 2nd highest total in the history of the program despite the team not making the post-season.

How happy would NC State fans be if the basketball program had half that number of top 20 finishes?

NC State fans made the Wolfpack Club one of five booster organizations in the country to exceed 20,000 members this year.

In the 2007/2008 athletic year, NC State fans set school records in football tickets sold (37,500), revenue from football tickets sold ($10.75 million), and revenue from basketball tickets sold ($5.6 million).

Additionally, NC State fans donated the second highest total in our history ($25.4 million). This was a combination of an all-time high in annual donations ($10.0 million), the 2nd highest total in capital giving ($13.7 million), and what appears to be an all-time high in endowment giving ($1.8 million).

Caulton Tudor of the Raleigh News & Observer had an original take on our quarterback situation today and at the same time took the opportunity to stick up for NC State fans. Thanks Caulton!

N.C. State coach Tom O’Brien’s decision to start Russell Wilson over Harrison Beck at quarterback on Saturday in Clemson likely will be debated by many Wolfpack fans right up to game time and possibly after the closing bell.

It should be, too. Based on Beck’s performance in last weekend’s win over William & Mary, there’s a legitimate argument for sticking with him. And if there’s ever been a fan base deserving of a voice, it’s the Wolfpackers. Their loyalty — in football and basketball — is far beyond the call of duty.

AD & Department Fans General Media NC State Administration NCS Basketball NCS Football Required Reading

81 Responses to TOB Comments on the booing; Caulton Tudor gets it right

  1. CarnifeX 09/10/2008 at 4:27 PM #

    Damn we look stupid*.

    *loyal to a fault, at least

  2. old13 09/10/2008 at 4:27 PM #

    All of the support doesn’t make sense considering the miserable overall performance of Wolfpack athletics. But, then, it doesn’t make sense that Foulup remains AD considering that miserable overall performance (and flat or worse trends of them) under his watch coupled with his and the department’s poor PR performances and insults of fans, alumni and monetary contributors. You’d think that alumni and fans associated with a technically-oriented university that teaches logic and managment based on logic would act more logically. Guess passion wins out over logic in athletics, huh!

  3. choppack1 09/10/2008 at 4:37 PM #

    Some excellent points on the fan support. It would be nice if folks in the media reminded our leadership of these facts in interview to get their take. I do think that you can’t have passion w/out a certain level of irrationality. So yea, I’m sure that booing doesn’t help recruiting, but when you haven’t scored a TD in 10 quarters, the natives will get restless.

    On the QB starting thing – I disagree. Like I said, when you’ve got a player who doesn’t appear to respect many of the rules of the program, you make it hard to send a message if you don’t force your offense’s defacto leader to follow them, provided there are other options available.

    I can only assume that Wilson has been completely cleared by doctors and wouldn’t benefit from another week off.

    It’s amazing how quickly we forget. Beck looked great last year against UCF – and when given the starting job, had very mediocre results against the next 3 BCS opponents.

  4. MrPerfectionest 09/10/2008 at 4:39 PM #

    I think support is the result of a perfect mix of results and hope and eternal Wolfpack optimism. If you don’t upgrade facilities or bring in Rivers, then the “pop” in support from that brief glimpse of greatness doesn’t materialize and those Football donation and attendance numbers don’t look nearly as good. Similar in basketball, if Herb was a below average coach and we don’t bring in a known name like Sid, then the support there wouldn’t be as great either. If we don’t turn the bball and fball ships around in the near term (2-3 years), I’d expect donations to drop (also helped by sluggish economy) and attendance to start to drop as the fans finally get used to NCSU not being able to taste greatness we think we deserve. It’s at that point that the board will finally ask Lee just what the hell he has been doing with all his free time.

    I hope that scenario doesn’t play out, but I like to think I’m not a heretic to suggest it might.

  5. Old School Wolf 09/10/2008 at 4:51 PM #

    We have one smart, relentless, and with it football coaching staff. The article by Caulton and the earlier entry about defensive scheme changes to match our personnel show a fully engaged, adaptable , no nonsense coaching staff. Thanks Statefans for these articles. Our long journey of football futility will be coming to an end. Go Pack , and Fowler-just go away.

  6. Daily Update 09/10/2008 at 5:04 PM #

    Choppack: Are there really that many problems with Harrison Beck behind the scenes? If so, then you make a great point about the message you are sending to the team by handing him (Beck) the starting job.

  7. Ismael 09/10/2008 at 5:08 PM #

    over at theacc.com they have all the coaches teleconference calls (maybe you guys already knew that). However, in it, TOB told Beck, and its probably what they told Burke, that those guys just wouldn’t fit into the offense this year and at least with Beck offered to help him transfer (maybe what they did with Burke). So i don’t know if its that Beck somehow got on the coaches bad side, that beer-belly sure seems like it would make a coach upset who jogs 6 times a week, or he just liked it here at NCSU and stuck around despite probably not going to play. “How the World Turns”

  8. CStanley 09/10/2008 at 5:37 PM #

    NC State fans…loyal to a fault.

  9. john of sparta 09/10/2008 at 5:40 PM #

    everything old is new again.

    back in the day….remember Gary Dornburg and Sportsline?
    well, in the Monte Kiffin era (airborne arrival)
    there was a “booing controversy”. of course, it
    was couched as….don’t boo the “kids” playing.
    here’s the bottom line:
    1. they aren’t kids. 18y.o. men/women defend our country.
    2. they aren’t amateurs. $20K tuition+ is not zero.
    3. Booing means Caring. ticket sales. concessions. blogging.
    limiting attendance to “non-booers” is a 30% cut.

  10. Greywolf 09/10/2008 at 5:53 PM #

    This is a little off beat and isn’t the party line, but how many of the experts on the board think that LF was brought in to take us to the next level with regard to athletic excellence? Was he hired to “clean house” and get us to the top of the athletics pyramid?

    I know it’s fun and popular to rant and rave about LF’s “miserable” job as AD. And when you look from the perspective of the “lunatic fringe” or serious-about-winning fans, surely the Chancellor will fire his sorry ass, then everything he does is evidence LF needs to go.

    The athletic programs and athletics in general were in serious trouble when LF got here. The problem with getting him fired is that he did, does and will do exactly what his boss expects him to do. If you seriously think Oblinger sat down with LF and said, “Lee, you’ve got to get us athletic respectability above all else or I’m going to replace your ass at the end of this year.” I suggest you don’t know the mandates of this University.

    I don’t ever expect LF to start riding herd on the coaches unless and until Oblinger is told to tell LF to do that. Now having said all that, I’m not happy with Oblinger or the BOT and their candy-assed attitudes about winning at NCSU. I also don’t take a lot of pleasure from shooting the administrator for carrying out their desires. It’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If LF fires coaches for not producing he is going to get canned and if he doesn’t he is going to catch it from some of the fan base — but not all.

  11. highstick 09/10/2008 at 5:55 PM #

    Boooooooooooooooooo Lee Fowler!!!!

    Boooooooooooooooo Obie~~

  12. RabidWolf 09/10/2008 at 7:21 PM #

    Tudor has it nailed in that post. I DO feel bad for Daniel, his blood, sweat, tears, heart, and soul are 100% invested in NC State. You can tell the kid was wounded by the fan reactions in the W&M game, but he probably realized that we, as fans, are tired of losing. He would probably make a fairly decent coach or coordinator with the knowlege and experience he has been surrounded with for 5 years. Who Knows?

    One thing that we, as supporters of NCSU, should NEVER forget is the simple fact that this young man led a number of classic, thrilling comebacks for the ‘Pack, as well as leading us to a win over our hated rivals from Chapel Hell after 4 straight losses. Thank you, Daniel for your relentless spirit, and your unwavering loyalty.

    NOW LET’S GO BEAT THOSE TIGGERS!!

  13. SMD 09/10/2008 at 7:49 PM #

    IMHO, Tudor doesn’t get enough love from Wolfpack Nation on the whole. Right or wrong, he calls it like he sees it. With his encyclopedic knowledge of NC sports, he’s right more often than he’s wrong.

    He should write a book. If the N&O’s Rob Christensen can do it, so can Tudor. 🙂

  14. whitefang 09/10/2008 at 8:08 PM #

    First I want to say this: I think TOB will be the best thing that has happened to Wolfpack football since Sheridan.
    And I love State with all my heart.
    But this booing debate is ridiculous in my opinion.
    TOB came here I thought due to the “fans”. Fans are fanatics and booing goes with the territory.
    Damn guys this is football. Yeah these are just “college” kids. But have you ever been to the old “Mile High” or “Veterans” where the pros play. I have and these people boo half the damn game. I have heard them boo Elway for C___s sake for throwing an incompletion. They boo the chick riding the horse. College age kids are fighting all over the world. They can’t take a few boos down in Raleigh?
    Hell lets hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya when our team screws up. Lets buy tickets and merchandise forever and ever whether we win or lose.
    Yeah these guys are just 18 to 22 year old kids. Yeah the recruits are just high school kids. So what? Ever play any football or any other sport. What the hell do you think DE is hearing on the field?
    He’s a great young man overall and from what I know I would be damn glad to see him come home with my daughter (if I had one). But we ain’t talking about his character and his loyalty when we boo. We are booing the situation on the field. We want to win and we are gonna be disappointed when we don’t. If if we don’t expect to win then we quit buying what State is selling.
    When he (the team?) won the game against BC a couple years ago does our cheering cancel out our booing? NO? Well we should have held hands and had a prayer vigil that night a few years ago instead. We should have said how sorry we felt for BC since they should have won.
    Thats all I got to say about booing. See you on the Clemson thread.

  15. wolfie1177 09/10/2008 at 8:12 PM #

    TOB is a great coach and he has history on his side. He was just defending a guy kid in Daniel Evans. I am sure TOB knew DE didnt look good and change was needed. DE hasn’t looked good this season and is playing scared which isnt good for anyone.

    DE and Beck are average back up QBs. Wilson is our starter and he will show that this weekend.

    Highstick I hope you are not boing TOB or you should change your name to typical NCSU fan=(patients is for losers, win at any cost)

  16. EverettBeez 09/10/2008 at 8:13 PM #

    I think Tudor has mellowed towards State in the last 30+ years. It was a good column. I do feel awful for DE. That being said, he had to be pulled. In many ways, that makes it all the worse. Why couldn’t he be some no account turkey?

    Truly impressive numbers on fan support. Especially considering how mediocre every sport appears to be – across the board. Graywolf was right, LF came into clean things up. I my impression (a very general one) is that LF is a company, not his own, man. He’ll do what he is told if someone would light a fire under him.

    Who is on the Athlete Council now? There are a bunch of faculty on it. Any of you students know if one of your prof’s is on it? How about getting some inside scoop on what the Council has to say about all this – seems like they could put some pressure on.

    If fan support stays the same, incredibly high, despite poor leadership, it won’t change. Why worry about success if the dough keeps rolling in?

  17. Primewolf 09/10/2008 at 8:18 PM #

    TOB should have put some humor on that question with a response like,” I think they were booing me. Our play calling was terrible.” or something to that effect.

    Regarding our fan support stats, our fundraising is a relatively new phenomena. When you look across all our facilities, we still are near the bottom of the ACC, I suspect. Maybe if we can out raise our peers over the next few decades, we can move into the top half.

    We still do most things cheaply in sports, esp the non-revenue sports.

    We will never amount to much in sports within some new leadership at the top. Thank goodness, supporters like me haven’t given up. I don’t think the $ will dry up, if anything it should continue to increase.

  18. b 09/10/2008 at 8:25 PM #

    I understand how desperately undermanned we are in vital areas of our team. It’s a little early for boos, but hey, you pay your money and implied is the right to make whatever noise you deem fit. I for instance, mumbled four letter words under my breath and sulked in despair as I was forced to view the INEPT offensive football team on display in the first quarter.

    I am resigned to difficult year, and we should probably look for breaks in the clouds, rather than a rainbow. I thought I was fully prepared for Evans struggles and have expressed concerns in the past that he was just incapable of any better. His horrid play shocked even me.

    I love that we have TOB and have utmost faith in the direction of the program, and it is getting better in baby steps…..but we want to be a performance-based fanbase. You suck out loud and many will boo, foolish or not. Especially QB play because we were spoiled rotten by four years of you-know-who.

    TOB had to make that statement to stand up for his players, and I respect him for it. I don’t think Evans should be booed, but boos are better than silence or an Exodus of paying fans, which may have resulted if he’d have stayed in any longer.

  19. MatSci94 09/10/2008 at 8:37 PM #

    Having listened to the local radio this week, I have come to the conclusion that we at NC State must have invented this thing called “Booing”. Apparently UNC, ECU, Duke, etc. have never ever even *thought* about booing their precious little athletes.

    As far as recruitment, a kid comes in and sees a full stadium for a creampuff opponent, boo a qb/team/staff that is just *not* getting it done, then mock chear when a ball is finally thrown downfield, and chear when we score. How could the not say ‘Wow, these fans care. It matters to them.’ and not want to play there?

  20. Greywolf 09/10/2008 at 8:49 PM #

    Primewolf
    “”TOB should have put some humor on that question with a response like,” I think they were booing me. Our play calling was terrible.” or something to that effect.””

    Right on here. It must suck to get blindsided on your own radio show by your own fans.

    Right on with the assessment of the fan base continuing to give. We are and have been non-supportive of our sports programs. It’s source in our second class citizen status in the University system. The state has been that the Chapel Hill was for the “better” class citizens and the farmers and mechanics and their sons (and only in near modern times, their daughters.) The faculty and administration fought for some status in the only arena they could — academics. And academics to some means no athletics or certainly not athletics that are deemed to be important. It’s subtle but the discrimination helps keep us “in our place.”

    Speaking of farmers and mechanics, we don’t need piss ants insulting us by their making fun of Fowler’s country roots, either. Most of the money raised by the WPC comes from “farmers and mechanics.” Unless we got a law school or med school over night.

  21. RabidWolf 09/10/2008 at 8:52 PM #

    I’m not suggesting we go all soft, whitefang. However, we don’t have to turn into the largest group of bastards on the planet, either.

    I’m sure that they can take a few boos down here in Raleigh, probably more than you can dish out.

  22. Sw0rdf1sh 09/10/2008 at 9:06 PM #

    I do not doubt the staff, and their decision to play Wilson over Beck. I’m calling an upset this week, and yes, I reside on the lunatic fringe.

    I booed the ball play not the staff or QB for the record (until we can beat this horse until submission).

  23. Wolf Dog 09/10/2008 at 9:12 PM #

    I am sure those racial slurs coming from Noah’s section isn’t helping either.

  24. RabidWolf 09/10/2008 at 9:13 PM #

    I think it’s about time to put the horse down, or at least out to pasture for a while.

    I, too am calling an upset, and a positive change for the season as well.

    ‘PACK 24 TIGGERS 17

  25. choppack1 09/10/2008 at 9:22 PM #

    So, some 16 or 17 year old sitting in the stands, here’s the fans booing the qb OR the coaching staff…People seem to forget, if the kid is a known prospect, he’ll be going lots of games across the region. Will he see them booing the qb play/coaching? Believe it or not, unless you are talking Duke, it’s not unusual for a stadium to be sold out. Who knows, but walk yourself through the following scenario:
    You’re a coveted employee – you visit 4 or 5 companies. All 5 of these companies are offering the same pay and benefits. You’ve got one company where folks badmouth the employees, the CEO or managers, you’ve got some others that don’t…Now, do you go to the company that has the good karma or the bad one?

    And yes, it is a chicken and egg thing…If Beck had started or if we’d been better the last 3 games, things would be different. But you can only control what you can control – and sometimes, just because a certain behavior is understandable or even justified, doesn’t mean it’s the best thing to do.

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