41% attrition rate from 2005 & 2006 classes

Here is a good article from Rob Daniels of the Greensboro News & Record that provides some statistical insight into what we all know and are feeling – NC State’s football program is depleted of depth and currently undergoing a major rebuilding project.

Hopefully our fans have begun to realize that we are in a total rebuild mode and potentially several years behind other schools who made coaching changes at the same time we hired TOB.

Neither is this a watershed season in the evolution of Wolfpack football. The program O’Brien inherited from Chuck Amato in December 2006 was on shaky numerical ground. Of the 41 players State signed in 2005 and 2006, 17 are already gone. That 41 percent attrition rate far exceeds the personnel losses sustained by the other three ACC programs that changed administrations at the same time. (North Carolina’s is at 18 percent; Miami has lost nine of 37 players from those classes or 24 percent; and Boston College, which O’Brien left to come to Raleigh, has seen six of 35 signees or 17 percent head elsewhere.)

Additionally, we have a writer from the N&O who takes NC State fans to task over the booing in Carter Finley on Saturday. I am reluctant to tackle this issue with any commentary as this topic is right up Jeff’s alley.

This is not an argument against booing college players. They get the scholarships. They accept the attention. There’s plenty of good, and they have to take the bad with it. Such is life.

The way State had played through the first five quarters of the season, the Pack probably deserved to get booed, as many State teams and quarterbacks have been booed before.

But this wasn’t just another quarterback struggling to complete a pass. Evans grew up sitting in those same stands, the Broughton High grad as much a State fan as anyone who voiced displeasure with his play.

“I love N.C. State football, and I love this team,” Evans said when Wilson was made the starter in August. “I love my teammates, and I love this university. So I’m really going to do anything I can to help this team win football games.”

That may not matter to some, but it should. If there was ever a player State fans were willing to cut a little slack, wouldn’t it be — shouldn’t it be — this one?

SFN Note – We will update this entry later in the day with more commentary on the ‘booing’

'08 Football Fans Football Recruiting General

95 Responses to 41% attrition rate from 2005 & 2006 classes

  1. PackMan97 09/09/2008 at 11:07 AM #

    The problem with booing Evans is that we have no one better.

    SFN: It sure didn’t look that way Saturday night. In fact – the people who booed in a response to the coaches that they OBVIOUSLY need to try something new – ended up being correct.

    I could see booing if we had Philip Rivers, Jamie Barnett, Geoff Bender, heck, even Olin Hannum that was on the sidelines waiting to play. Maybe Beck will be better than he showed last season? No idea. The problem is we have no QB. It doesn’t matter if you boo Evans or not because we have no QB! Evans doesn’t deserve slack because he’s a legacy, is from Raleigh and loves the Pack…he deserves some slack because he’s out there in practice every day and getting laid out on his back on Saturdays. Show me an alternative and I’ll happily get upset (??) with y’all. Ok, we tried Beck, that seems to be working. Lets see what happens next week.

    Unless you want to burn a season of Glennon playing behind our current offensive line?

  2. Ismael 09/09/2008 at 11:11 AM #

    I was just thinking…this whole year could (I hope not) be a more bizarre version of 2005 when we had a #1 Defense but a mediocre offense. We have a tough early schedule, but we’ll find out alot if Russel Wilson is what the doctor ordered for turning this ship around. Every team we play (minus clemson) is gonna have a fairly medium to weak offense but all having good to decent defenses. I’m just thinking we might see some statistical disparity between D and O this year again. We are #1 in interceptions, 4th in sacks and i think we are in the 110-117 range on 3 major offensive categories. Go Russell!

  3. Trip 09/09/2008 at 11:21 AM #

    “The problem with booing Evans is that we have no one better. ”

    Evans: 2008 8/23 49 yds 34.8% completion 2.13 ypa 0 TD 3 INT 2 sacks.
    Beck: 2008 17/28 246 yds 60.7% completion 8.79 ypa 2 TD 1 INT 1 sack

    There is no way you’re saying that with a straight face.

  4. pakfanistan 09/09/2008 at 11:30 AM #

    Evans: 2007 194/339, 2030 yds, 57.2%, 5.99 YPA, 12 TD, 13 INT, 111.54 Rat

    Beck: 2007 85/160, 903 yds, 53.1%, 5.64 YPA, 2 TD, 9 INT, 93.41 Rat

    So, yes, I think you can say that with a straight face.

  5. Ismael 09/09/2008 at 11:36 AM #

    pakfanistan, you just proved correct. The significance between last year and this year is DE’s shoulder surgery and Harrison’s late night trips to Krispy Kreme. One obviously is having some kind of an effect and the other, we don’t know yet.

  6. Ismael 09/09/2008 at 11:39 AM #

    Offensive Line Breakdown (Sam Jones is not listed but will be here in January hopefully)

    Cameron Hardesty OL FR (walkon?)
    R.J. Mattes OL FR
    Andrew Wallace OL FR

    Henry Lawson C FR*
    Desmond Roberts OT FR*

    Matthew McKeon C SO (walkon?)
    Jake Vermiglio OG SO
    Ben Willis OL SO (walkon?)

    Gary Gregory OG SO*

    Andy Barbee C JR*
    Ted Larsen OL JR*
    Jeraill McCuller OT JR*
    Julian Williams OT JR*

    Curtis Crouch OG SR
    Matthew White OT SR (walkon?)

    Meares Green C SR*
    John Bedics OL SR*

  7. StateFans 09/09/2008 at 11:47 AM #

    ^You forgot to include int’s returned for TDs and other turnovers at key times. Evans had almost a half dozen last year.

    Last time I checked it is currently 2008 AND it we are in a time after Evans’ injury & surgery that doesn’t seem to have progressed as needed.

  8. Noah 09/09/2008 at 11:48 AM #

    Mike Golder, IIRC, is a medical hardship case. Meaning he’ll be on scholarship but will never play again.

  9. pakfanistan 09/09/2008 at 11:51 AM #

    Personally, I think the booing Evans is pretty classless.

    It’s not like he’s a fantastically talented player who is playing below his abilities. He is barely passable when he’s at his best, and he is coming off shoulder surgery.

    It’s not Evans’ fault that Beck decided to forgoe off season conditioning and that Wilson is out with a concussion. I’m sure he knows he’s not a good college quarterback. I’m sure the coaches know he’s not a good college quarterback.

    Booing isn’t going to get him to play better, because he can’t. Booing isn’t going to magic 20 pounds off of Beck. All booing does is make us look like the lunatic fringe we get portrayed as by our AD and the media.

    Edit: ^^Even if I left out the pick sixes, it’s not like Beck is immune to them…And, if an int isn’t a pick six, that doesn’t mean it isn’t guaranteed points. There’s no other way to classify two touchdowns and nine interceptions as anything other than terrible in a way that is usually reserved for criminal offenses (no pun intended).

  10. Girlfriend in a Coma 09/09/2008 at 11:54 AM #

    Beck had ~250 yards in one half plus one posession against the same defense Evans threw an INT to and then went 3 and out on 7 consecutive possessions.

    So put me in the “not with a straight face” crowd.

    Aside from the pick-6 and the kneel-down, didn’t we score on every single Beck possession?

  11. redfred2 09/09/2008 at 11:56 AM #

    I have to agree with GFIC and others, I might get frustrated as hell with ANY player at anytime, and it doesn’t matter how good or bad they are normally. The problem comes when that same kid, is continually placed in the very same position, without anymore tools to work with than he had the previous time out, and the coaches seemlingly expect different results. WTF!

    People were booing the FB coaches and the STATE of the entire FB program, expressing their pent up frustration with NC State athletics in general, unfortunately Daniel Evans just happened to be the one in the spotlight at the time.

  12. PhilipRiversWannabe 09/09/2008 at 11:57 AM #

    Matt McKeon has to got to be John McKeon’s brother. John eventually turned out to be a pretty good lineman for us. Hopefully Matt will turn into the same type of player.

  13. Daily Update 09/09/2008 at 12:21 PM #

    The booing wasn’t for Daniel Evans. It was for the staff’s decision to keep trying to play Daniel Evans when it is quite clear over the past 2+ years that he isn’t capable of being a long-term solution here at NC State(especially when he exhausts his eligibility at the end of this year).

    Even if playing Beck wins us no more games this year, then at least it gives him the experience of playing at this level. Beck might improve enough where he could actually factor into the starting QB battle next year. If not as a starter, then very likely as a backup depending on how much Glennon/Wilson improve and whether Wilson all of a sudden decides not to play football.

  14. BoKnowsNCS71 09/09/2008 at 12:22 PM #

    I got into a conversation with Bobby Purcell just before the game. He mentioned the WPC was trying to get a Tennessee and NCSU game set up in a separate site. Anyone heard which year the UT game might be and where?

  15. choppack1 09/09/2008 at 12:30 PM #

    Here’s the problem – and think about it from a personnel standpoint.

    Beck’s done this stuff before – he did it vs. UCF where he looked like John Elway in the 2nd half after Evans could do nothing. Beck then started at BC – he had some really good plays, but overall, his performance was miserable. No big deal, but then the performances were similar vs. Louisville and Clemson.

    Evans has led NC State 2 wins over 6 Division 1A teams, 4 of whom ended up being bowl eligible. Of course, this doesn’t mean that Evans is the best solution now – or that Beck can’t lead the team to any victories over Division 1A opponents.

    Beck’s possible work ethic issues and throw out the playbook mentality, make a coach’s decision really tough. When you start Beck you send a message that the offseason doesn’t matter and that executing the the proper plays/reads doesn’t matter…heck, you could even argue that wins and losses don’t matter. Quite frankly, from a coaches standpoint, I can’t think of a worse position to be in. You’ve got a kid who does everything right, but on Saturdays, allows his confidence to be crushed and has a very limited skillset…you certainly don’t owe him the job. You’ve got another kid who looked like he was killed the week before – you probably don’t want to have to start him. You’ve got a kid that from all outward appearances and from seeing him play, doesn’t follow some basic rules. He doesn’t do anything criminal, but his behavior doesn’t lead a team any way a coach would want it to be led. Finally, you’ve got possibly the best high school pro-style passer from last year that you’re trying to redshirt. Talk about lose/lose.

    Regarding the boos – it was tempting to boo – but folks have to realize its just wrong. It doesn’t matter whether you were booing the coaches or the kid, the kid hears them and takes it personally. I would just recommend folks to think of it as their son or brother out there. I can understand booing when you see someone doing something dirty, but booing a college QB w/ a very limited skillset is uncalled for.

  16. pakfanistan 09/09/2008 at 12:39 PM #

    And arguing:

    “The booing wasn’t for Daniel Evans. It was for the staff’s decision to keep trying to play Daniel Evans when it is quite clear over the past 2+ years that he isn’t capable of being a long-term solution here at NC State(especially when he exhausts his eligibility at the end of this year).”

    is just ridiculous. I was at the game and the first round of boos started on the first drive immediately after the interception. the second round of boos started on the second (or third?) drive when another pass was almost picked off.

    There’s no way to spin what happened into anything other than booing Evans.

  17. Girlfriend in a Coma 09/09/2008 at 12:43 PM #

    So you alone can read minds?

  18. Astral Rain 09/09/2008 at 12:52 PM #

    The boos were for the coaches leaving him in there. DE is a great guy, and I’d be happy to cheer him in the stands, but he is not someone who should suit up again as anything but a FG holder for NCSU.

  19. pakfanistan 09/09/2008 at 12:56 PM #

    Who is reading minds? I’m examining purely what happened. When did the boos occur? After mistakes. When did people cheer for Beck? After after a long pass down field (in direct contrast to Evans’ abilities).

    You tell me what that means.

  20. whitefang 09/09/2008 at 1:01 PM #

    I think booing is part of the game. Just like cheering. It’s not personal. Fans pay money to be entertained. They feel a part of the game so they are going to boo and sometimes (I hope) cheer this team. I don’t boo generally at games, but I am totally OK with those who do.
    It IS hard as a parent to hear this as i have been the parent who has listened to boos at HS games. I have even heard, “when are they gonna get that kid, INSERT MY SON’S NAME, out of there.” But again it is part of the game. I was there when Johnny Evans played and am pretty damn sure that, as good as he was, he heard a few boos in his career.
    I remember when one of my sons in HS brought home a form that I was supposed to sign that said I wouldn’t boo the other team, criticize referees, etc. I refused to sign it (my wife probably did and didn’t tell me). I mean why go to the freakin game? I ain’t gonna sit there on my hands.
    Hell, I think it would be pretty eerie for a QB to throw a bad pass for an interception and just hear silence.

  21. StateFans 09/09/2008 at 1:03 PM #

    ^ It means that people were happy that the COACHES CALLED A PLAY TO THROW THE BALL THAT FAR DOWN THE FIELD WHILE HAVING A PLAYER ON THE FIELD THAT HAD THE ABILITY TO MAKE THE THROW.

  22. pakfanistan 09/09/2008 at 1:09 PM #

    Edit: Nevermind. This conversation is retarded. No matter what you think people were booing, the way it appeared to me, and apparently to the recruits and parents of recruits that attended, is that we’re a bunch of jackhole fans who boo our own.

  23. PAJ 09/09/2008 at 1:22 PM #

    The coaches deserved to be booed even if it was arguably in poor taste to do so. 2 massive blow outs; 10 scoreless quarters; zero first downs vs. W&M after 25 minutes of football. And they are still playing Evans. They were rightly called out by the fans for either a) being hard headed about playing Beck, or b) failing to recognize that adjustments needed to be made.

    I think a successful Harrison Beck is TOB’s worst nightmare. The whole QB situation reeks of personality conflict between a “my way or the highway” hard liner and a guy who is not completely buying it. Beck knows he’s better than Evans. So does the rest of the team. Wilson carries himself in TOB style, and TOB wants to reinforce his message that this is how it’s going to be. TOB wants to get Wilson back on the field ASAP to kill any potential for Beck to prove it doesn’t have to be TOB’s way all the time to work.

  24. McPete 09/09/2008 at 1:29 PM #

    i was not there but my buddy and i listened to the game on the radio. by the start of the second quarter, we were not yelling at evans. we were livid at the coaching staff for keeping evans in the game, and then calling what appeared (at least on the radio) to be the exact same play-calling: run on 1st down (get nothing due to the blitz), run on 2nd down (get nothing due to the blitz), attempt to throw on 3rd and long and pray to jebus the defense doesn’t wind up in the end zone.

    i made a comment a week ago or so that we can’t keep blaming evans for his short comings. it’s on the staff now for putting him in there. it’s not like the guy is an underacheiver. he has maximized his talent. he beat boston college and FSU back to back. that was his Rocky moment.

  25. WTNY 09/09/2008 at 1:29 PM #

    Two points:
    1) Obviously Beck outperformed Evans and also 2007-Beck. That’s great! But recall that against W&M not all of Beck’s throws were the best. There were at least two passes that were candidates for picks. If Beck were to start the rest of the way I think it would be an adventure.
    2) “I think a successful Harrison Beck is TOB’s worst nightmare.” A successful Beck == successful Pack == successful TOB.

Leave a Reply