Why I Don’t Get Worked Up About Avent

As you no doubt know by now, the Georgia Bulldogs advanced to the CWS yesterday, shit-canning the Pack Nine 17-8. I was disappointed, but in no way surprised or really upset.

Elliott Avent has been at State a long damned time. He has not won an ACC title, and twice bumped up against the “Sendek glass ceiling” – losing in the Super Regionals (i.e., Sweet Sixteen). His teams are consistently pretty good, but never great. Do I think Avent’s a great coach? No. Do I want him replaced? No.

You may ask yourself whether I am being intellectually inconsistent. But I have different standards for revenue sports (football and mens’ basketball) than the non-revenue world, even high profile non-revenue sports (baseball and womens’ basketball). And I think that’s completely fair.

Championships and major milestones (such as reaching the CWS) in non-revenue sports are to be celebrated and rewarded – but not necessarily expected. Analogize it to the business world – one would expect more out of a $750K salaried executive VP than a $60K salaried middle manager. The executive VP is well compensated for the demands of the job, which includes “no excuses” responsibility for the bottom line. “Solid” performance by the middle manager might mean smaller raises and being passed over for promotions. But rarely does that mean a pink slip is forthcoming. And the salaries we have paid Avent over the last decade haven’t made him set financially for life.

That does NOT mean non-revenue sports coaches should have lifetime contracts. Obvious failures like George Tarantini should have been fired many years ago. And it also does not mean that the athletic department should fail to strive for championships. Coaches that do achieve the highest level of success should be paid for it. As a Wolfpack Club member, I would heartily endorse part of our dues going to a “Champions Fund” which paid significant bonuses for non-revenue coaches leading the Pack to ACC titles and major national milestones. Give coaches a tangible reason to strive for the top rather than settle for the middle, and give aspiring “star” coaches an incentive to come here (note to Lee Fowler – offering de facto lifetime “no expectations” employment does not entice star-caliber people).

Also, one can argue as to whether baseball is truly a non-revenue sport. Like womens’ hoops, I think that it is – just a high profile one. Yes, I am generally more aware of (and interested in) Wolfpack baseball and womens’ hoops than, say, gymanstics or soccer. But really, who knows anything about the ACC’s television contract for baseball? Did anyone care about ACC expansion’s impact on that? How many games are even televised, prior to the tourney stage? How much are you charged for admission? Hell, just look at the newspaper coverage – Chip Alexander might as well be writing about Pee Wee soccer. It’s all mellow, “feel good” stuff, with lots of human interest angles. No detailed anaylsis, mostly just “great win” or “tough loss.” This is not the pressure cooker of ACC mens’ basketball, and the media coverage and fan interest bear that out.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

Baseball Non-Revenue

45 Responses to Why I Don’t Get Worked Up About Avent

  1. Dr. BadgerPack 06/09/2008 at 6:09 PM #

    BJD- you’re a good writer… but, seriously. You make no mention of Holliday, no mention of the fact that the incoming class (and previous ones) are increasingly better. This is complete tripe. “State lost, let’s dump and bitch”… You’re better than that. (OK, maybe I’m grumpy today… related to the 4 hour hospital visit…)

  2. Dr. BadgerPack 06/09/2008 at 6:11 PM #

    NCSSLIM- see the Georgia/State preview– there is a link in the comments describing how Holliday arrived (he’s a longtime friend of Avent’s)

  3. roandaddy 06/09/2008 at 6:17 PM #

    In other news.. did anyone see that Vinny Del Negro was offered the Bulls job?

    Not a bad gig.. and you get the first draft pick in the next draft!

  4. Dr. BadgerPack 06/09/2008 at 6:39 PM #

    BJD- after a thorough reading, I retract my vitriol… Doesn’t seem like you were dumping (too much, anyway).

  5. Primewolf 06/09/2008 at 7:26 PM #

    SFN, I disagree with you totally on the importance of non-revenue sports.

    I believe we ought to selectively emphasize one or more non-revenue sports and build a national championship caliber program. Hire the best coaches, pay the bucks, improve that sports facilities and not just win, but dominate. Looke at what Wake has done in the non revenue sports. Look at Duke. UNC certainly has made some decisions along this line.

    State has never dominated in anything on a national scale. With all due respect, we aren’t likley to do that in FB or BB either.

    Think of how our image and self-respect would change if we just had one model program to built a university sports program around. I really don’t care which one it is, along as it has an ACC championship. Cross Counntry is the closest thing we have, but it has never brought a national championship.

    The money it would take to build a non-revenue program is generally peanuts. What, maybe a few million a year.

    NC State has never sustained success, except in Cross Country. We get a good coach, he builds a program and then what– either he leaves or becomes disenchanted with the lack of investment in his program.

    What if we had emphasized baseball when Espo was here, invested in the facilities, did everything top notch from travel, game emphasis, recruiting budget, support staff, and declared we expect to compete for national championships, and assessed coaching and AD performance according to stated goals. Good Lord, do you not think we would have something to be proud of by now. We would probably have a $30M stadium the likes of which are going up all over the place in college ball.

    Instead we have a tiny, but nice little underfunded new stadium, with no leg room, no cover over the fans, no room to expand, and in the ugliest part of campus. How do you like the view of the motor pool area when you drive in from Western.

    For the life of me, the administrators at NCSU continue to f%^k things up. Instead of putting a new ball field over on Centenial or someplace where there was room for one, they stick it where it will always be second class.

    And, guess what, they put the tennis center right next to it. Our university architects and planners should be sh&^ canned.

    I overheard a wolfpacker trying to explain to his SC budddy at the Sunday night game about how NCSU was in a budget crunch when the staduium was being built. The SC fan was asking some obvious questions. And the alumni was putting a positive spin on it, but it sure was painful to listen to.

    Instead of having 10 average minor sport facilities, I would take 2 cream of the crop, 3 highly competitive, and 5 shi^^t facilities over 10 average ones any day.

    Heck, if we were competitive in just something, I think our alumni would rally areound it and provide all the financial support needed for that program.

  6. cowdog 06/09/2008 at 7:41 PM #

    Non rev? What world are those that contest living in?

    4 FREAKING outlets on the tube for college baseball and you deem it non rev?

    Ya know …awh forget it…there still is not a freaking SINGLE one of you that has been able to answer the question posed more than once here!

    Never before and never since. NCCA milestone and baseball was a big part of it. I don’t even wish to pose the question again. What’s the point if you don’t already know the answer. It is something that every true Pack heart should know.

    The Wolfpack is the only school to have done it and 35 yrs. later plus an eternity before…come on what’s the answer?

  7. BJD95 06/09/2008 at 7:44 PM #

    Cool, Badger. My post was just to indicate why I wasn’t bitching and moaning about missing the CWS. I’m totally fine letting Avent run his program and see what happens (since it’s not football or mens’ hoops). If he wins an ACC title or makes the CWS, I hope he is compensated for it nicely.

  8. john of sparta 06/09/2008 at 8:51 PM #

    all college sports started as Non Revenue.
    when Vegas has “a line” then it’s revenue.
    UNX is building diamond “facilities”.
    follow the money.

  9. choppack1 06/09/2008 at 9:44 PM #

    A couple of thoughts on some posts above:
    1) I don’t know of any corporation that fires a significant % of their workforce if they are in the upper-echelon of their division unless there are other differences or unless the corporation has had stellar results.
    2) I like the idea of seeing where Avent can go w/ the new facilities. We got some good pub (up until the first inning Sunday) this weekend
    3) You have to put the non-revenue sports and their results in perspective. A lot of hiring and firing spends more $$ in these sports than you can hope to recoup. However, as BJD correctly mentions, there are some coaches at NC State who don’t meet the basic criteria for keeping their jobs.
    4) In addition to the bonuses – if coaches won a certain # of titles – I’d make sure that their pay was comparable to the elite in the business.

  10. gcpack 06/09/2008 at 10:39 PM #

    “(note to Lee Fowler – offering de facto lifetime “no expectations” employment does not entice star-caliber people).”

    The board of trustees and other influentials need to raise the expectations of the athletic director. Until that is done the fact the current athletic director is very comfortable with the status quo
    will not change. That comfort zone with no additional pressure on the athletic director is exactly what the university is getting & it will not change until those at the top of the university re-define the AD’s job.

    The other problem is our locale among the other two major universities in the Triangle neighborhood. Those schools put an extraordinary amount of emphasis on the non-revenue sports and specifically the Sears Cup for overall athletic success that Stanford usually owns on a regular basis.

    I have a good friend who is very close & active with the Duke athletic dept. One of his good friends sat on the search board for their recent athletic director search. My friend said the thing that surprised the search board member the most when talking to many major athletic department members who were interested in the Duke job was
    the level of NON-interest at most other schools across the nation in the Sears Cup.

    These were major schools with very succesful athletic depts. such as Michigan, Oklahoma, etc. and when asked about their Sears Cup emphasis overwhelmingly most said the Sears Cup was NOT a priority at their school. They were only interested in the success of the revenue sports and maybe a couple of non-revenues that they were regularly successful with.

    The point is the Jones’ next door think the Sears Cup (aka-emphasis on non revenue success) is important but it isn’t in most other college neighborhoods. So locally the media will harp on it just because the blues harp on it.

    Finally the thing I like about Avent is his positive, confident approach particularly when dealing with the media. After the 10-6 win vs. UGa, a reporter three times kept asking how Avent felt regarding Uga’s undefeated record in home elimination games. Finally Avent responded by saying we (State) are not worried about teams that played 10 years ago because we are only playing this year’s UGa team. Yes, we did get pelted but Avent wouldn’t fall for the reporter’s attempt to dig out doubt in our baseball team’s psychie. (It wouldn’t surprise me if it was Chip Alexander since he was the reporter who kept hounding Amato about losing to the “likes” of Akron more than a week after the game until Amato finally broke.)

    I would love to have Ray Tanner back but we could do much worse than Avent.

  11. MrPlywood 06/10/2008 at 1:53 AM #

    ummmm… ’73 baseball, football and basketball teams all ACC champions?

  12. waxhaw 06/10/2008 at 5:34 AM #

    Holliday will get us over the hump.

  13. GAWolf 06/10/2008 at 8:46 AM #

    Thank goodness we beat USC. Had we not, we’re talking textbook NC State fan meltdown. With that said, I don’t know where we would be without Holiday. Our pitching toted the load this year and the team often won despite our lack of bats. If Holiday goes, and assuming so does the pitching, I think the heat rises on Avent. Until then I agree with most, as far as proven results (on the field/court/etc) we don’t have a better program at the school.

    Pretty sad…

  14. Ed89 06/10/2008 at 10:06 AM #

    Plywood, I think you are correct.

  15. Classof89 06/10/2008 at 11:29 AM #

    regarding Doak Field…was it designed/constructed with a second set of renovations/expansions in mind?

  16. cowdog 06/10/2008 at 8:41 PM #

    DAMN PLYWOOD…Gave up on it. Hope you find this.

    Answer is yes! Well done my man.

    Never before and never since has a single school swept what most right thinking people consider the 3 men’s majors within their conference.

    I can now lay this to rest.

  17. redfred2 06/10/2008 at 10:27 PM #

    “The board of trustees and other influentials need to raise the expectations of the (ENTIRE DAMN ADMINISTRATION, WITH REGARDS TO ACADEMICS AS WELL AS ATHLETICS, STARTING AT THE VERY TIP TOP WITH CHANCELLOR, JAMES OBLINGER, then working their way down to the asleep at the wheel) athletic director.”

  18. MrPlywood 06/11/2008 at 1:47 AM #

    🙂 (Bowie’s “Golden Years” plays in the background)

  19. gcpack 06/11/2008 at 1:29 PM #

    redfred tell us how you really feel!

    LMAO, very funny comment

  20. Paul Westerdawg 06/13/2008 at 9:24 PM #

    One of the questions you have to ask is…does he not only deliver a quality product. But what kind of support is he given from his university? Is he competing on a level playing field?

    It’s an awful lot to ask a man to win a gun fight when he’s only armed with a butter knife.

    I’m not sure what your facilities, recruiting base and budgets are like. But FSU, UNC, GT, Clemson and Miami have some really nice assets.

    GT has the East Cobb County feeder system to pull from. And Florida is SWIMMING in baseball talent.

    Little story:
    UGA has had the same swimming coach for 25 or so years. For the first 15 years of his career, he did ok. Nothing special. But nothing embarrassing. Around 1994, we built the finest Swimming and Diving facility in the nation.

    5 years later, he finished either 1st or 2nd in women’s swimming for 8 consecutive years (4 first and 4 second place). He now coaches the Olympic Swimming Team.

    Like I said…I have no idea if you’re giving him the tools or not. I just know that he is a tool. lol.

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