Larry Davis to Transfer from Seton Hall

It’s not a big deal, but it was worth noting that it was announced yesterday that Larry Davis will transfer from Seton Hall.

Davis played in all 61 Seton Hall games over the last two seasons and averaged 6.6 points and 3.4 rebounds per game for his career. The guard’s top performance came in a 94-85 victory over Penn during his freshman season when he recorded his only double-double with career-highs of 27 points and 10 rebounds. Last season, Davis made 13 starts and averaged 5.8 points and 3.4 rebounds in 21.1 minutes per game.

You will remember that Davis, a combo-guard from New York, originally signed a letter of intent to play for NC State under Herb Sendek. After Sendek left NC State and when Seton Hall hired Bobby Gonzalez, the Pirates used the window of time before NC State hired Sidney Lowe to find ways around NCAA rules to connect to Davis. Almost simultaneously with the Wolfpack’s hiring of Sidney Lowe, NC State’s athletics department granted Davis and fellow commitment Dan Werner free releases from their binding LOIs.

What we didn’t share with you at the time was the scoop on how Lee Fowler was handling our three committed and signed recruits – Larry Davis, Dan Werner and Dennis Horner – during his embarassing coaching search. You see, during the month long search process when these recruits were reading tons of negative stories about Lee Fowler’s failures in the press…”Coach” Fowler’s communication with the recruits and their families was extremely limited. In other words, it barely existed.

After all of the dust settled, some people close to the situation informed SFN that the recruits’ families were very disappointed with the manner in which the transition was executed and that Lee Fowler and NC State had almost no communication with the families for the entire month of April. (We heard a rumor that Fowler spoke to the families one time – right after Sendek left – and never reached out to the families again. We do not have verification of this.)

Of course, this doesn’t surprise us – as we shared back then, Fowler wasn’t even calling the coaches that he was trying to hire in attempts to build relationships and sell what NC State had to offer. If he wasn’t calling the coaches that he was trying to hire then he sure as hell wasn’t going to interrupt his Lake time by bothering with the recruits. You know how it goes…this stuff just works itself out. There is no reason for anyone to think strategically and spend time executing on a transition plan.

When it became known that Davis was not going to play for the Wolfpack we logged this entry that will be of interest to you. In the entry we discuss our thoughts on the general practice of being so passive and conciliatory with scholarship releases during a key time in NC State’s Basketball program.

Let’s assume for a moment that you work in the real world and own a company that is your livelihood.

One of your account officers makes a key sale for the company. In the sale the new client signs a contract committing the client to provide certain services for the next four years. You are restricted by law to having less than fifteen clients at any one time, so the commitment of the new client is very important.

After the new sale is signed, sealed and delivered and you have begun making arrangements and planning around the new client, the account officer who signed the deal accepts leaves your company to accept a new job with a competitor.

The new client, who signed his/her contract with YOUR COMPANY – not the account officer – suddenly claims that they are uneasy with their agreement and would like to take their business elsewhere.

Question: As a prudent manager of your business, do you allow the new client to freely ignore his commitment and simply waltz into the horizon without exercising any of the penalty clauses availability to you in the signed contract?

Had Lee Fowler and NC State not handled the Davis (and Dan Werner) situation in our typical lazy, non-confrontational, passive manner then Davis very easily would have been suiting up for NC State’s over last two years.

Though Davis has not excelled at Seton Hall, he has not been a total bust. With this said, Davis would have been on the roster last year when Engin Atsur was injured and would certainly have executed the point guard position with more success than Gavin Grant. Had NC State had a point guard throughout last season the Wolfpack may have won a couple of more games which may have produced bubble scenario for an NCAA Tournament berth.

One thing we do know for certain – Larry Davis is better than Marques Johnson. Had Davis been on the roster last season, the Wolfpack would have been significantly more hesitant to accept a transfer from a similar combo guard in Marques Johnson…and if Davis was excelling under our system one could also speculate that Javi Gonzalez may not have gotten an offer. This would have freed-up two valuable scholarships for Coach Lowe to have used during last year’s recruiting cycle to have allowed him to capitalize on the positive buzz and late season success of his first year.

In the end, no one still knows if Larry Davis would have been a good fit at NC State. As you will see in this entry, bridges got burned pretty quickly in the process. Which, of course, opens a whole new perspective into the ‘reasoning’ why NC State would be so conciliatory in a situation where we were being publically ridiculed despite our excessive support of the whims of an 18 year old who was unethically contacted by the program he attended only because of our generous release.

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07-08 Basketball Basketball Recruiting

73 Responses to Larry Davis to Transfer from Seton Hall

  1. PacknSack 04/10/2008 at 1:32 PM #

    I find it interesting that some are so adament about kids honoring their commitments despite a coaching change, even using a business model and ‘contracts.’ But all of the coaches we were pursuing already had commitments to their schools in the form of contracts.

    So pardon me if this is a leap of faith into this massive gray area, but we want players who honor their commitments, but coaches who do not?

  2. lush 04/10/2008 at 1:38 PM #

    ^^ i beleive skip had all of those commitments before he died, and then they stayed commited to Dino

  3. packbackr04 04/10/2008 at 1:55 PM #

    packnsnack, youve got it mixed up. these “kids” sign legal contracts and they are expected to honor them just like a 40 yr old or an 80 yr old. Furthermore, The LOI is a contract with a school, not a coach. and as far as coaches not honoring their contracts. they have escape clauses with big buyouts in their contracts. so essentially if they break their contract (get hired by another school) they have to pay the school back for breaking said promise. which usually the hiring school will pay as part of the package to get the coach. But the coach still honors the stipulations to get out of their contract by paying his old school back for leaving before his contract was up. Where was the recoupment from Werner and Davis for breaking their LOI’s? Im fine with them not coming to school at NCSU, but they should have to sit out a yr, just like the legal document that they signed stipulates they should. We shouldnt just be ripping up contracts b/c someone had a change of heart. thats not good business. but as we all know, Lee wouldnt know what good business practices are if they bit him on the nose.

    and yeah, Skip had all those recruits locked down. but his passing was handled by a competent AD and WF was able to retain the entire recruiting class in tact. imagine that.

  4. packgrad93 04/10/2008 at 2:08 PM #

    “I just don’t know what spot he would have on the team next year if Fells moves to the 3 spot.”

    he’s beefing up to play the 4. DOn’t see him getting much pt behind Costner & Tracy though.

  5. kyjelly 04/10/2008 at 2:16 PM #

    Yes skip had a say with most of them but the bottom line they stayed with the new coach and dino has another class almost as good following this one.

  6. packbackr04 04/10/2008 at 2:21 PM #

    ahhhhhhahhhahahahahahahahaha, “Horners beefing up to play the 4!!!!!” ahahahahahahaha. priceless. thanks cedar. thats classic.

  7. packgrad93 04/10/2008 at 2:21 PM #

    A coach leaving & one dying is different. A player would look like a azz for leaving after a head coach dies. Also, Wake’s “new” coach runs the same system so not much change.

  8. blackdom 04/10/2008 at 2:23 PM #

    ED89: “A lot of places would love to have Horner”? 7/11.kmart perhaps seriously are you for real? Sid talked him into staying with his commitment wonderful!Davis was bad enough as a topic now Horner. How are my tennis boys doing?

  9. packgrad93 04/10/2008 at 2:27 PM #

    that came from Sid.

  10. choppack1 04/10/2008 at 2:33 PM #

    packbackr – IMHO, if the transition is handled correctly, this wouldn’t have been an issue.

    The LOI and nature of college scholarships is a bit unfair. If Sid decided he didn’t like Werner and/or Davis, he could non-renew their scolies after their first year.

    I have no problems w/ what these kids did. If it was my child I might do the same thing in their situation.

  11. Trip 04/10/2008 at 2:42 PM #

    All of this talk about players “Sucking” and such reminds me of a conversation I have with a guy at work that loves UNC. He keeps talking about how terrible their 4 spot is, (Thompson/Stephenson most of the time)… and I keep thinking “What’s so terrible about them? I would have killed to see Costner in the shape that Stephenson is in this year.”

    Eventually it came down to one thing: Points. Sure, Stephenson blocks a lot of shots and works well with the team and is a pretty athletic specimen… but… Stephenson/Thompson don’t score a lot… mostly because of the black hole that Hansbro is… this guy was talking about how terrible 2 of their players were just because they don’t put up a lot of points even though they are contributing elsewhere.

    Man, I wish Costner had that problem this year… “Damn, Costner can’t score because Hickson is so good and is taking all his shots, but he sure can contribute to the team in other ways!”

    Also, Horner bulking up to sit on the bench behind Smith/Mccauley/Costner/Hickson? I think he stands a FAR better chance at the 3 spot with reserve minutes behind Fells, since no one knows for sure if Thomas will be good or not. If Hickson stays and Costner lays off the white castle, I just don’t see Horner getting ANY minutes at the 4 spot in comparison to maybe getting a few at the 3, and right now I think Hickson is going to stay.

    I’m with Choppack, I think if it were my kids and Fowler had screwed up this much I would have gotten them the hell out as well. If everything was handled correctly though, they should have stayed.

  12. packbackr04 04/10/2008 at 3:49 PM #

    agree with Chop in the fact that if it were handled better, the kids might not have transferred. also by no means was i saying i would have wanted my kid to go to NCSU after the way fowler handled the situation. i would have ran like hell too, and probably knocked a few people over in my rush to the door.

    and i never said it was fair to hold the kids to their LOI’s. but its legal. and these kids have to learn responsibility at some point. if you commit to something, you need to see it through to the end or pay the consequences. to me its another reflection of the way these kids are coddled their whole lives and can get anything they want when they want it.

    Cedar^ im laughing at Sid too then. i dont know how effective Horners pump fake will be at the 4. horner is a 3, a weak 3. but i do like the kid for honoring his commitment and definitely think State should honor their commitment to him and let him stay even though he wont see the floor much anymore.

    “A player would look like a azz for leaving after a head coach dies”—- im not sure if this holds any water. americans have a way to forget about things like that very quickly. If one of their players wanted out after what happened(and got out) i dont think it would have been a big deal in the media. but the thing is, none of them wanted out b/c of the way competent upper level mgt at WF handled the transition. Hell they had NO advanced notice and handled the coaching hire in a quick and effective manner. Whereas COACH had imminent knowledge of his coaches impending departure and still found a way to bumble around the country for 2 months looking at Steve F-in Lavin of all people. all the while our commits (and their parents) are thinking, “what the hell is going on in Raleigh? i dont want my kid going into that mess!”

  13. GAWolf 04/10/2008 at 4:18 PM #

    What’s the skinny on the “other” Hansbrough leaving Mississippi State?

  14. redfred2 04/10/2008 at 4:43 PM #

    Not laying any ground work BEFORE “his” favorite coach walked out, not properly handling the coaching search, then leaving the recruits out blowing in the wind, was all mainly Fowler’s fault. But I have to ask, what about ” ” also? What about him scooting off to ASU and totally abandoning the one guy who had stood up for him though years of mediocrity? ” ” left as if NC State University owed him something, and he sure didn’t lift a finger to ease the transition.

    It just goes to show even further that Lee Fowler/James Oblinger can’t garner any respect or loyalty even on a personal level.

  15. Ed89 04/10/2008 at 6:08 PM #

    Good article on PackPride about Scott Wood.

    http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/2/744881.html

    I’m ready to see another commit — I feel we’ll get one soon!!

  16. JeremyH 04/10/2008 at 8:58 PM #

    if we somehow landed wall the others would follow. i’m encouraged by wall’s comment that it was difficult to see how he sees nc state’s system because we lost our starting point guard early in the season. i think that sid probably talks a good game and he should keep it up. if he has a vision, he surely aint’ gunna share it with us.

  17. blackdom 04/11/2008 at 8:42 AM #

    Wow Pack Pride is not very objective is it Ed89?
    Jeremy “if we somehow landed wall” Keyword is somehow. Yes Sid must talk a good game how else did he get this job? If he has a vision it would be a miracle and “SOMEHOW” he knew how to coach

  18. Otis 04/11/2008 at 8:43 AM #

    A little off topic, but on the JJ front, he is still going to classes, I saw him in the library this week. So maybe he really is just testing the waters. I think if he was gone for sure, he would be at some kind of camp training for workouts.

  19. packgrad93 04/11/2008 at 8:58 AM #

    “horner is a 3, a weak 3″

    Why, cause he can shoot the 3? At 6’8”, 220lbs he can play the 4 a lot better than the 3. He doesn’t have the athletic ability to stay with most SF.

    “handled the coaching hire in a quick and effective manner.”

    Wasn’t very hard was it? Little transition for the kids.

    “But I have to ask, what about ” ” also? What about him scooting off to ASU and totally abandoning the one guy who had stood up for him though years of mediocrity? ” ” left as if NC State University owed him something, and he sure didn’t lift a finger to ease the transition.”

    What was he supposed to do? Fans ran him off, so can’t cry when he did little to “ease the transition”.

  20. packbackr04 04/11/2008 at 11:51 AM #

    “What was he supposed to do? Fans ran him off, so can’t cry when he did little to “ease the transition”.

    HOW ABOUT WIN SOME MEANINGFUL BASKETBALL GAMES IN 10 YRS TIME.. AND HE WOULDVE NEVER BEEN RUN OFF

    “He doesn’t have the athletic ability to stay with most SF.”

    he doesnt have the athletic ability to stay with most PF’s either.

  21. old13 04/11/2008 at 9:53 PM #

    So why do we need another Sendek recruit on the team to drag down Sid’s system!

  22. redfred2 04/12/2008 at 10:36 AM #

    “What was he supposed to do? Fans ran him off, so can’t cry when he did little to “ease the transition”.”

    pg93, No doubt that the fans were getting more than tired of the same ole, same ole, season after season. But the facts are that ” ” was pulled up out of a smaller environment and given the opportunity to head up an ACC program. Then he was employed by, and received a nice check from NC State University for an entire decade. How about some loyalty to THE UNIVERSITY, and those folks above him, who allowed him to hang onto his job regardless of anything that the fans were saying?

    Is it possible that if ” ” had taken all of that into consideration earlier in his decade of coaching there, and pushed NC State above all else, maybe his entire tenure would have been a little more successful. Then, maybe the fans would have actually become his allies, instead of an excuse to underachieve, and then further used as the TOTAL excuse for his eventual departure.

  23. kyjelly 04/13/2008 at 9:50 PM #

    old13 ^ “Sid’s system” thats a good one and what system might that be?

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