YOU Write the Story – How did UCLA and UNC-CH do it?

Lavin released

As many of you already experience and recognize, we feel this blog has some of the most insightful readers and commentors of any fan blog on the internet. It is a regular experience to read an entry on our blog and learn a lot more from the resulting conversation in the comments section than you learn from the original author.

With this said, I thought that it would be interesting to introduce a new excercise whereby we engage all of the talent that we have at the blog and ask for you to take a more active role in what ultimately is posted as entries here. (I will be traveling and won’t be around much this week so it is a good time to give this a try).

Here is what we are going to do — I am going to provide a topic and ask our readers to provide comments on this topic. We hope that the comments will be diverse and will include links, statistics, editorial comments and maybe even some personal experiences. Some of you may choose to take a stab at writing an entire article; others may choose just to provide some key statistics and records. We hope to ultimately copy and paste the information and commentary and create an important entry for the blog that we can add to our archives for future use. (Don’t hesitate to run some key word searches on SFN while making use of our archives!)

The topic today is brought to us by two members of this year’s Final Four – UCLA and UNC-CH. Today, the Bruins and the Tarheels are coached by Ben Howland and Roy Williams, respectively. But, just a few years ago both institutions had different faces leading the charge. (In fact, Carolina went through a seven year stretch where they employed four different basketball coaches and ALL FOUR of them reached the Final Four).

Since this is an NC State blog, let’s tie NC State to this by asking the question – over the last 15 years, how has the manner in which NC State’s “leadership” has managed our Basketball program compare to the decisions and moves that UCLA (Steve Lavin) and UNC (Matt Doherty and Bill Guthridge) have chosen. Particularly, how does Lee Fowler’s decisions to retain Herb Sendek from 2000-2006 compare to UCLA and UNC’s decisions?

To get you started, allow us to turn your attention to this old SFN entry that we found with a five second search of our database. In addition to some great editorial comments in the discussion section that would be relevant to this, the following summary for Steve Lavin’s career at UCLA was provided.

Lavin’s quick record: 7 Seasons; 6 NCAA Bids; 5 Sweet 16’s; 1 Elite Eight

Lastly, if you weren’t online much this weekend then we ask that you play around a little and do some reading. For example, we’ve got a couple of “bytes” entries that received a lot of attention on Saturday and on Friday.

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144 Responses to YOU Write the Story – How did UCLA and UNC-CH do it?

  1. chris92heel 03/31/2008 at 5:53 PM #

    “c92 – don’t mistake yourself.If DOH had won ACC and/or NCAA championships, I doubt he goes anywhere.”

    I understand what you’re saying, but as I said to noah, he wasn’t capable of doing such because he was a nutjob. Remember, the 2001 team was capable of achieving those heights but the team imploded due to him.

  2. ruffles31 03/31/2008 at 6:02 PM #

    I preface this by saying I am NOT a Fowler supporter. Before Sendek left, I told several people if I had to choose who to go between Fowler and Sendek, I would choose Fowler.

    I have always wondered this about Fowler. I could be way off on this but have always wondered. If someone has any inside info, this would be interesting.

    After Sendek left to go to Tempe, common sense as well as the mass public outcry to go after “a big name” coach, it seems as if Fowler thought he needed to go big. Therefore, he went after Barnes and then Calipari. He struck out on both coaches. I wonder how upset he was at this. By striking out on the big names, he could then use his contacts in basketball and “Coach Fowler” could find the perfect coach for NCSU. If he had gotten Barnes or Calipari, he couldn’t take as much credit for the hire as maybe he wanted. He wasn’t pulling out the diamond in the rough or the coach he really wanted. He just did a good job getting an obvious candidate.

    Then, as everyone knows, he went after Beilein, Lavin, Ryan, Kruger, Montgomery, etc. before Lowe got the job. I don’t think he ever thought that it would take so long as he would lose so many pounds when trying to find a coach. It almost seemed that during the search I would see that he is talking to certain candidates and my first impression was “HUH? Are you kidding me? He is interested in Coach . Why would he go after that coach. He has at least one large question mark that makes me wonder what Fowler is thinking.”

    Then, in the end, he settled for the candidate that would make him look the best. Any other candidate IMO would have put his job at risk.

  3. Mr.wolfpack90 03/31/2008 at 6:09 PM #

    Well ucla has no competition in the la area. Which i can’t understand why they can’t succeed in football? Unc suceeds because the state and national media and certain nc politians(skipper bowles)root for,protect their holes!! Whenever a rival makes a move(state,duke etc)the media machine starts to beat them down.(vcu win over duke was amid stories of the media cheering loudly in press boxes for vcu!). While unc always talks about class and tradition and honor, they typically are hypcrites in this area because no one whines more than roy(i don’t like that dangum ncaa logo)williams. They talk class but whien and bitch every chance they get.
    Ucla made the right move in firing s lavin a nitwit who got the job because he was left after they fired jim crook harrick. Just think our ad offered our men’s job to that lavin guy loll.

    But let me answer the question what would it take for us to get to ba a national power?
    1. Our facilities are top notch.
    2. Our fan base is strong and pours out the money.
    3.Our fan passion rivals any in the country as it should!
    4.Adequate leadership for our athletic director to hire and fire and find the right fits for our programs.

    Obviously el sid was a bad move and will be with us two more yrs but the damage started at the top. I question retaining a coach after a nine game losing streak? Maybe l fowler has a little blue in him afterall?

  4. ruffles31 03/31/2008 at 6:17 PM #

    Mr. Wolfpack90,

    As far as UCLA football success, have you heard of a little team coached by Pete Carroll named USC?

    You can’t fire a coach after 2 years, especially an alum, even with a 9 game losing streak. I ask anyone this question of anyone who wants to get rid of Lowe now. Who do you think we could get? It would be a longer search than the previous one. Remember, the same AD would be running the search that ran the previous one. I don’t want him to hire any coach in any sport, and that is saying something with coaches like Kerrigan and Tarrantini still around.

  5. redfred2 03/31/2008 at 6:27 PM #

    ^chris92heel, so basically, what I’m taking from all of this is that the collective think tank over at the hill there, didn’t know anything or have any idea about any of this from his playing days in powder blue, didn’t pick up on any of this when they interviewed him for the job that they eventually hired this supposed “nutjob” to do?

    My thoughts on it are that Matt Doherty was nothing more than a temporary fill in, and he pushed way too hard and ruffled too many feathers fighting to succeed, because in the back of his mind he knew it all along.

  6. JeremyH 03/31/2008 at 6:28 PM #

    1. Sean Miller
    2. Frank Haith
    3. Tom Crean
    4. Mark Few
    5. Larry Brown
    6. John Wall’s uncle
    .
    .
    .
    .
    101. Justin Gainey (2nd coming of Avery Johnson)
    102. Chris Webber
    103. That actor from the “Transporter” movies
    .
    .
    .
    501. Kelvin Sampson

  7. packpowerfan 03/31/2008 at 6:36 PM #

    ^I believe that actor would be Jason Statham. And I think he’d be higher than 103…that man scares the living shit out of me.

  8. redfred2 03/31/2008 at 6:43 PM #

    I know how some people on this site feel, and the overwhelming importance that they on “image” in regards to NCSU, but I’d just like to know how those same folks feel about WVU right now? Do they honestly believe the entire college BB world, all media, along with the next generation of recruits just waiting to sign on, are really looking down on WVU for hiring a guy like Bob Huggins?

    The answer is HELL NO!!! And we’ll be working hard to even get to what he has already accomplished there.

  9. Mr.wolfpack90 03/31/2008 at 6:46 PM #

    All joking aside, how did unc become a national basketball power when nc state everett case bascially founded the acc?

    Well, after the dixie classic point shaving scandals which involved unc and state players, The system president,william friday(a unc grad and emertis from unc)fought for and had the dixie classic stopped until it was changed into the acc tournament. While some schools recovered,bubas went to duke to build their program while a ast named d smith took over and was not in fear of ever losing his job due to the support of friday and others. (which i like to point out that university system presidents should not be biased to one school(unc)and should be hired outside of the conference or state they represent). After norm was hired the freshman rule of inelgible players was still in effect thus denying the opportunity to get better quick except unc use it to fuel their players into jv squads.
    While norm did recruit david t and tommy b, he broke a ncaa rule in recruitng of david t while unc has never ever been implicated(which i find hard to believe because even john wooden had a players uncle who took care of their guys.
    In 1975, somehow the ncaa rule for freshman changed and dean smith was able to bring in a guard named phil ford whom saved his job in 1975 by beating state and we have looked back ever since.
    Then 1980 bad ad work and a fight between willis casey and norm sloan over salaries enabled him to leave and go to florida while we hired jimmy v whom won with norms players.(which really annoyed unc because the year before old deano won ding it the so-called right way)
    Yeah, when you have the greatest players ever eventually you will win after nearly 20 yrs on the job loll.But v did it in three and thus when we had sucess the the sotires in the n/o started in 1989 after that bogus book came out which was dropped from publisher to publisher until someone picked it up. And story after story creamed our university until v was forced out.I mean if anyone ever wanted too why hasn’t a story ever come out of chapel hill about a corrupt player or coach or something but never has in 40 yrs until the matt d. players revolt.
    Thus with bill fridays comments in papers and our univeristy self imposed sanctions our team lost ten more yrs. And only after did dean retire that state and the rest of the conference started to catch up .Other than duke whom had a fighter all along in coach k and a solid as in tom butters who stood up for his coach and make the right calls. But even in 1995-96 you could see unc slipping and duke slipping but it wasn’t until robinson left that we were able to get a coach whom got us to the ncaa’s.
    Then again we had another bad as todd turner(unc grad i think) in our mits whom obviously does not know much.(fired again i think?)He supported les r loll.

    So we had herb ball for 10 yrs and a program on the verge of greatness but what happened? Bingo,the media(state,local national-ie unc is a journalism school).Started making our coaching search look like we had a ad for a moron the way things were handled.Funny,most ad’s would be stern and stand up to the media bliz.
    Now we are back to square one again with a coach who was lambasted n the media for his team lack of effort.

    Final analysis:get rid of the ad hire one who knows what their doing,they will make the right coaching hires that will make us sucessful.

  10. packpower 03/31/2008 at 7:15 PM #

    Bill Friday is a graduate of NC State’s Textiles College and UNC’s Law School.

    William Aycock, who was the Chancellor at UNC who hired Dean Smith as Head Basketball Coach, was an NC State graduate.

  11. JeremyH 03/31/2008 at 7:19 PM #

    ok you convinced me

    104. Matt Doherty

  12. john of sparta 03/31/2008 at 7:20 PM #

    how? both UCLA and UNC retained “destination” school status.
    (you want to BE there)
    NCSU has acquired the “commuter” and “online” status.
    hard to attend games when you live in Buttwipeistan.

  13. JeremyH 03/31/2008 at 7:25 PM #

    what does this “commuter” campus comment mean? I’ve seen it before. (usually students don’t come to live on campus unless they are freshman or sophomore–are you saying less underclassmen are living on campus? are you saying people don’t study on campus anymore or go home immediately after class?)

  14. wufpup76 03/31/2008 at 7:32 PM #

    “That actor from the “Transporter” movies”

    I like Jason Statham 🙂 … If you haven’t seen “Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels” you should check it out … And Statham would probably get a lifetime contract to coach our team

    New movie idea: “Facilities – the keys to Success”

    ACT I, Scene 2 –

    Lee F. : “All you need are facilites, Jason.”

    Jason S. : “I kick a** in a lot of movies. I’m sure I can from a coaches’ box as well. Let’s do it. I need a lifetime contract w/ guarenteed money every year until I die before we get started though.”

    Lee F. : “You got it. Wolfpack fans are sheep. Intensely loyal – to a fault, and willing to do anything – including spending tons of money – to help their beloved Wolfpack teams win. We can build new facilities together every 5 years. In each new facility there will be secret rooms containing a pool filled with cash given by fans – we can take a swim in their cash anytime we wish! Sign this contract and you can laugh all the way to the bank, Jason!”

    At this moment, both characters break into uncontrolable laughter that sounds like the Dr. Evil laugh from the Austin Powers movies.

    The camera fades out of the room to the outside where viewers will see new facilities envisioned by Lee Fowler, AD. Dr. Evil laughter continues in the background.

    END SCENE

  15. Pack92 03/31/2008 at 7:32 PM #

    Wolfpack90, isn’t it kind of hard to steer clear of unx management types when that’s one of the few degrees they have you can actually get a job with? As far as the media goes, well, you hit it on the head by pointing out unx just happens to have a School of Journalism. A SCHOOL of journalism? My God, do you not know how to write when you arrive at college?

  16. Wulfpack 03/31/2008 at 7:34 PM #

    “Who do you think we could get?”

    Well, for starters, we could get someone with some college basketball coaching experience. I don’t know, I’m thinking there’d be about 10 mid major coaches who have had some success lining up to interview if given the chance.

    There are some damn good coaches out there that can teach the game of basketball.

  17. Noah 03/31/2008 at 7:46 PM #

    I’ve said this before…as to “who we could get,” take the financial package we offered Barnes and dangle it in front of a list of 20 reasonable candidates. More than half will take it without even blinking.

    That Lee Fowler couldn’t do that says a lot about Fowler and little about us.

  18. JT94 03/31/2008 at 8:02 PM #

    While I don’t know any of the specifics of the ‘behind the scenes’ for UCLA (or UNC for that matter), it seems clear that there was focused leadership in both instances. We have none.
    An earlier poster suggested that this conversation be expanded to include large donors and BOT members, which is likely the larger root of our problems. I would guess that if you researched UCLA’s situtation, you would find large donors and trustees who will accept nothing less than excellence (as defined by final fours/national titles)and who communicate that (at least privately, but very specifically) to the AD and coach. This certianly appears to be the case over on whiskey hill. Even though most of them feel about Baddour about the same way we feel about LF, the trustees over there eventually got their man (dispensing with Doh and getting Roy the 2nd time around). I don’t think getting Roy was Dickie B’s handiwork.
    From what I have heard (all 2nd or 3rd hand), trustees like Murphy loved Sendek and that was the primary reason he was retained after year 5. Only very publicly audible criticism from the rank and file NC State fan was ultimately able to bring about change–not leadership from either LF, the chancellor or the NC State BOT.
    We got a taste of real leadership with MAF, but it did not stick and ruffled too many feathers. Now with Oblinger, we are again relegated to status quo (at best).
    So, it seems to me that LF is simply a pawn for the few big donors/trustees who are not truly committed to excellence in Wolfpack athletics. Even if LF was a great leader with his game together (and I am not suggesting he is), he would be fighting an uphill battle.
    I think we need change at the BOT level and someone with the stones to step up and demand excellence. Then, the AD situation would remedy itself.

  19. redfred2 03/31/2008 at 8:14 PM #

    To rephrase your comment a little there Noah, I think the problem is that Lee Fowler, as well ” ” when he was here, and on and on, and all down the line, not one of them really ever “say” anything worthwhile about “us”/NC State.

  20. geojim1990 03/31/2008 at 8:19 PM #

    what does this “commuter” campus comment mean?

    It isn’t just that students arn’t living on campus, it’s that they arn’t too involved with campus “life”. The lifelessness of Hillsborough St is an extension of this.

  21. redfred2 03/31/2008 at 8:35 PM #

    Like I said on here a year or so back, NC State has become the “Bushwood Country Club” of universities. And like the high browed, holier than thou, Judge on that same movie, NC State just simply Smells.

  22. JeremyH 03/31/2008 at 8:41 PM #

    if only i had attended a good basketball school for one of my graduate degrees, then maybe i would not care as much (notion occurring during the 8 game losing streak)

  23. highstick 03/31/2008 at 9:02 PM #

    JT94, your analysis/thoughts are exactly what I think is the problem. It’s not only Fowler, but Oblinger, the WPC, and the BOT. I’m sure the BOG is very happy with State because we’re not competing with the so-called “Flagship”!

    I’d dump everyone of them at the top, but regretfully, I don’t have the “dumping power”. That’s the major hurdle for anyone who cares to overcome!

  24. turfpack 03/31/2008 at 9:02 PM #

    Just like my son friends have said -Sorry coach we thought n.c.state always sucked.Most young people today don’t have a clue about the legend the is n.c.state-Everet Case(started the cutting down of the nets)Started basketball in the ACC,Dixie Classic,The great teams of the 60’s,The Sloan years in the 70’s,1973 undefeated season-27-0,1974 ACC&NCAA CHAMPIONS-All the great players D.T.-T.B.-M.T.-H.W.,The 80’s -Coach V 1983 ACC& NCAA CHAMPIONS,1987 ACC Champs and so on….Most young people weren’t even born yet-you can’t blame them-Guest who I blame????? No leadership the last 15yrs-and sucky coaching.
    B. Jones on 850 the Blues(buzz)Sat. said basiclly if we didn’t pressure H.S. out we would still be getting in the NCAAT.He also said the Admin.(LEE) wouldn’t have forced H.S.out-it was the FANS fault and they now got what they deserve.That’s just what you expect from that crowd from 850 the blues

  25. kyjelly 03/31/2008 at 9:05 PM #

    Ruffles31: he meaning sid is not owed anything in way of job security because he attended school here……Who can you get? Well perhaps a Basketball Coach who can teach and put out a product that can look promising yes even when they are losing 9 in a row …….that team this year if they were still playing they would still be losing.
    Things were getting worse game by game ok give him the dook game ………..but face facts our league sucked and we were at the bottom

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