YOU Write the Story – How did UCLA and UNC-CH do it?

AD & Department Fans NC State Administration NCS Basketball You Write The Story144

Lavin released

As many of you already experience and recognize, we feel this blog has some of the most insightful readers and commentors of any fan blog on the internet. It is a regular experience to read an entry on our blog and learn a lot more from the resulting conversation in the comments section than you learn from the original author.

With this said, I thought that it would be interesting to introduce a new excercise whereby we engage all of the talent that we have at the blog and ask for you to take a more active role in what ultimately is posted as entries here. (I will be traveling and won’t be around much this week so it is a good time to give this a try).

Here is what we are going to do — I am going to provide a topic and ask our readers to provide comments on this topic. We hope that the comments will be diverse and will include links, statistics, editorial comments and maybe even some personal experiences. Some of you may choose to take a stab at writing an entire article; others may choose just to provide some key statistics and records. We hope to ultimately copy and paste the information and commentary and create an important entry for the blog that we can add to our archives for future use. (Don’t hesitate to run some key word searches on SFN while making use of our archives!)

The topic today is brought to us by two members of this year’s Final Four – UCLA and UNC-CH. Today, the Bruins and the Tarheels are coached by Ben Howland and Roy Williams, respectively. But, just a few years ago both institutions had different faces leading the charge. (In fact, Carolina went through a seven year stretch where they employed four different basketball coaches and ALL FOUR of them reached the Final Four).

Since this is an NC State blog, let’s tie NC State to this by asking the question – over the last 15 years, how has the manner in which NC State’s “leadership” has managed our Basketball program compare to the decisions and moves that UCLA (Steve Lavin) and UNC (Matt Doherty and Bill Guthridge) have chosen. Particularly, how does Lee Fowler’s decisions to retain Herb Sendek from 2000-2006 compare to UCLA and UNC’s decisions?

To get you started, allow us to turn your attention to this old SFN entry that we found with a five second search of our database. In addition to some great editorial comments in the discussion section that would be relevant to this, the following summary for Steve Lavin’s career at UCLA was provided.

Lavin’s quick record: 7 Seasons; 6 NCAA Bids; 5 Sweet 16’s; 1 Elite Eight

Lastly, if you weren’t online much this weekend then we ask that you play around a little and do some reading. For example, we’ve got a couple of “bytes” entries that received a lot of attention on Saturday and on Friday.

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AD & Department Fans NC State Administration NCS Basketball You Write The Story

144 Responses to YOU Write the Story – How did UCLA and UNC-CH do it?

  1. Ismael 03/31/2008 at 3:02 PM #

    Rochester (I’m in Rochester too, Brighton area), i was gonna add that exact comment but StateFansNation’s posters are too astute, i’d figure somebody would caveat my comment.

  2. wufpup76 03/31/2008 at 3:07 PM #

    “He (Turner) gets canned from Vandy and I’m not sure about his fate at UofW, but the fans hate him”

    Turner is out at UW … They had put a definite last date on his tenure and I believe it has already passed

  3. Trip 03/31/2008 at 3:09 PM #

    Rochester has it right, I can’t give ANY credit to Doh for what he recruited. Here’s how recruiting goes for Carolina.

    Kid A has been recruited heavily by NC State, Clemson, VT and other ACC schools as well as some BE/B10/whatever. Kid A is a 5* PG with an unlimited ceiling. Carolina has not recruited this kid due to already having 3-4 4*/5* PG’s on their roster, Duke won’t recruit the kid because he doesn’t have rich parents. Kid A is starting his senior year and is leaning toward NC State in 2009.

    Lawson drops out for the NBA draft, QT graduates, Fraser is told that he won’t be able to play BB again due to failed rehabilitation and the freshman PG that Roy has coming in this year is not progressing as expected.

    Roy stops by Kid A’s house. “Hey, wanna play for carolina? You’ll be on a team full of talent and all you have to do is pass the ball to Tyler and he’ll travel his way to your assist.”

    Kid A signs LOI for Carolina the next day.

    DOH.

  4. wufpup76 03/31/2008 at 3:13 PM #

    About our friend Todd Turner – this article says his “resignation” was effective on Jan. 31 of this year

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/huskies/343088_husk12.html

    “Turner, 56, did not attend Emmert’s news conference but met later with media members. He said the decision to resign was mutual, but disagreed strongly with Emmert’s assessment that he was not the right fit for the athletic department.”

    Really Todd? Oh, you disagree, do you? … I am shocked … You’re “skillsets” for holding an AD job were superb … ahem … Good luck Todd, but get out of the AD business

  5. GoldenChain 03/31/2008 at 3:18 PM #

    Well, pretty much unx-xh IS the ACC and we are pretty much their bytch(see women’s sports, basketball, baseball)!
    We pretty much sux and hire the WRONG people, then give them extensions when they don’t preform.

    Rock & Ismael (did I mention I work for Muslims?) ‘The Antlers’ is pretty much the best place to eat in Ithaca however my son has decided to pla football elsewhere.

  6. chris92heel 03/31/2008 at 3:23 PM #

    It wasn’t wins with Doh. If he had stuck around for another year the heels might have fielded a team in 2004 that made the 2002 team look like 1982.

  7. choppack1 03/31/2008 at 3:26 PM #

    c92 – don’t mistake yourself.If DOH had won ACC and/or NCAA championships, I doubt he goes anywhere.

  8. Noah 03/31/2008 at 3:28 PM #

    Matt Doherty is crazier than a ****-house rat. But it was the wins. Had he won 25 games and gone to the Final Four like Gut, they would have overlooked the crazy part.

  9. Trip 03/31/2008 at 3:37 PM #

    One of the things I can remember about Doh was back in high school my tar heel fan friends were very depressed during basketball season.

  10. choppack1 03/31/2008 at 3:39 PM #

    2 depressing seasons, cry me a f-ing river.

  11. chris92heel 03/31/2008 at 3:43 PM #

    Noah,

    If he hadn’t been a nutjob he’d have won 25 games, but he is/was. Its a chicken/egg thing I guess. If he wasn’t crazy he wouldn’t be crazy.

    But his losses and his crazy are inextricably linked.

  12. Trip 03/31/2008 at 3:43 PM #

    Hey, atleast our highs are greater than their highs! They win a championship like it’s just another meal, we get to the sweet 16 and fires erupt on campus.

    Hey wait, maybe Lee knows that the Lottery method is the best way to hook people into donating. Lotterys have always used variable payouts because people are easily addicted when they don’t know the outcome of what they are doing, but are hoping that they get a million dollars even though the chance is close to zero. Fowler realizes this, and makes sure that our sports teams are a constant rollercoaster thrill ride to keep us addicted and donating money in hopes that the next years team will take us further, even though the chances are slim.

  13. Trip 03/31/2008 at 3:45 PM #

    Wait… that would assume that Fowler is intelligent… nevermind, it can’t be that.

  14. Noah 03/31/2008 at 3:48 PM #

    I knew a kid who idolized Matt Doherty when he was a player at Carolina. Wrote him fan letters and everything. When he finally got to meet him, the interaction was so disturbing that he came home and threw away all of his Carolina gear.

    This was back in…what, 1984? 1985? He didn’t get saner between then and now…

  15. packpower 03/31/2008 at 4:46 PM #

    There is no way UNC should have gone 8-20 in 2002 – there was a lot of talent on that team.

    In my opinion, Sendek would have been fired after season five under many ADs; however, give Fowler a little slack as Fowler had just been hired and Sendek was well liked by the faculty and perhaps even MAF. Sendek was known for being very accessible to the Athletics Council and a certain former football coach could have learned from Sendek’s interaction with the faculty. Although I found Herb’s sense of humor condescending and a tad arrogant when I met him, he was apparently a good politician/diplomat with the people that mattered.

    Someone check this but I believe Amato’s players had a higher APR than Sendek’s but Herb was always perceived as caring more about his players. Paradox?

    Willis Casey didn’t hire Kiffin because he was out of commission during the process. He hired Reed in 1983, who was the fourth choice after Sheridan, John Cooper (Tulsa) and Rick Carter (of Holy Cross). Reed did leave the program in good shape for Sheridan to succeed.

    Fowler did make the right move with Chuck and has made some good hires in O’Brien, Navas, Carter Jordan and Choboy. O’Brien and Jordan may have been handed to Fowler but he did find Navas and Choboy. I’m also willing to cut Lowe some slack for a sophomore slump for now. He needs to make some changes and I have confidence he will just like Sendek did between 2001 and 2002.

    Fowler doesn’t have an easy job and it’s easy to second guess his decisions. However, because Fowler has billed himself as a Basketball guy, his fate will probably hinge on Lowe’s success or failure.

  16. blackdom 03/31/2008 at 4:50 PM #

    Doh is still better than what we have here bads years for them are contract extentions for our guys

  17. wufpup76 03/31/2008 at 5:04 PM #

    “Fowler did make the right move with Chuck …”

    I’m not sure that particular move was all Fowler … Remember, he did call Espn Gameday just a few weeks earlier in that season and stated that Chuck’s job was safe … If letting go of Chuck was Fowler’s decision alone then I’d give him credit, but I thought there was some behind the scences action involving the WPC / BoT after Fowler’s ‘phone call’ and the time of Chuck’s dismissal

    Please correct if wrong

  18. wufpup76 03/31/2008 at 5:05 PM #

    ^Sorry, I meant to say “Please correct ME if I’m wrong”

  19. Wolfpack_1995 03/31/2008 at 5:07 PM #

    Didn’t Duke fans scream “Bi-Polar” when Doh was at Cameron?

  20. JeremyH 03/31/2008 at 5:10 PM #

    “Fowler doesn’t have an easy job and it’s easy to second guess his decisions. However, because Fowler has billed himself as a Basketball guy, his fate will probably hinge on Lowe’s success or failure.”

    wishful thinking, but don’t count on it. i like the boycott idea. maybe even a “fire fowler” rally. we’ll have to talk to the people that held the “fire isiah” rally. now that we’re brainstorming, have a ready-link at the top of the main page to explain, objectively, every reason why he should go. and then circulate this document around campus, and then see if we can make it on the main page of digg.com. If so, that gets added as an accolade of the document. the masses have to speak to have spoken.

  21. packpower 03/31/2008 at 5:14 PM #

    You may be right on the Chuck situation but we’ll never know. As far as calling ESPN, that’s what an AD should do as there are unsigned recruits – if Chuck had finished 8-4 (which was possible with the number of close games)…….. Whether Fowler made the move or was told to make the move with Chuck, his name was on the press release.

    Clarification – should have added “academic performance” at end of this sentence, “Someone check this but I believe Amato’s players had a higher APR than Sendek’s but Herb was always perceived as caring more about his players’ academic performance.”

  22. Astral Rain 03/31/2008 at 5:14 PM #

    You forget one more attribute that’s needed- luck.

    Now, luck won’t do you much good without the other things, but you can do everything right and fail. Not that we’ve even come close to that.

    As for firing Fowler- do things like write Bill Simmons “what should you do if you have the Isiah Thomas of college AD’s.” Maybe if write-ins don’t work, public humiliation might.

  23. howlie 03/31/2008 at 5:46 PM #

    One poster above, interestingly, implied another dynamic–the degree of ‘behind the scenes’ manipulation by deep pocket donors.

    I DON’T think Fowler is a total bungler, but DO think he is a ‘manager’ rather than a leader–and we need a leader in such times. Clearly, Baddour at UNCCH is hired to be a ‘manager’–and is a known bungler between various crises when deep-pocket donors step in to ‘pay off’ the problems and make them go away. That is, Baddour was hired to be manipulated by a handful of fiscally powerful supporters… and to keep a well-oiled athletics program from coming apart.

    Was Fowler hired to do the same? That is, should the discussion be expanded to include those who ‘pull the strings’ behind Fowler? IS THAT the reason why Fowler doesn’t make public proclamations about what is expected or about goals or expectations fo any of the programs [i.e., because he doesn’t really set them–a few powerful dondors do?] I have no idea if this is the case.

    In ignorance of that influence or degree of behind the scenes control, Fowler still needs to be evaluated on all our athletic programs:
    Where were they each seven years ago? Where are they now? [Can someone tell us?] For THAT, he bears substantial responsibility.

    I entered in ’74,and my early years after school were ones where we were ACC Champs [or near the top] in wrestling, swimming, cross country, track and field, baseball, soccer, women’s and men’s basketball –and glimpses of football greatness with Holtz and Sheridan.
    It would be ‘nice’ if we had success in some of those non-revenue programs now… but that’s not important to me, personally. Rather, show me results in football and basketball.
    But I think the result of a 7-yr. review will show us doing worse in almost every sport.
    Is that the case?

    I graduated in the late

  24. howlie 03/31/2008 at 5:50 PM #

    (p.s. IS THERE a way to ‘edit’ a previous post to correct mistakes on this site?) thx

  25. redfred2 03/31/2008 at 5:51 PM #

    Please pardon my French, but what ^someone above is trying to say is that coaching at NC State University, where being “liked” and “accepted by all” is just SOOOO more important to the administration than anything else on the planet, Herbert Sendek was a much better ass kisser than Chuck Amato, and therefore he could have stayed and eventually retired here.

    Nothing is about achieving, there are no demands placed on anyone, it’s all about squeaky clean appearances and how well you can kiss a pig farmer’s ass.

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