Saturday Bytes – Tarheels defeat Wolfpack (sound familiar?) OR State’s/Davidson irony (Updated 2pm)

……crunch….. Carolina’s third ranked baseball team beat the Wolfpack 5-2 yesterday (I thought we had some new authors who were excited about covering baseball on SFN? hello? anyone out there?).

The Tar heels are 21-4 overall and 8-2 in the ACC. After a one-hit loss to Marshall, the Wolfpack are tracking just perfectly to an average Lee Fowler led program with an indistinguishable 14-9 overall record and 4-6 in the ACC. The program could still squeeze into the NCAA Tournament on the bubble and make no national noise but still provide the Sports Information Department a chance to contrive a statistic about how many of our programs compete in post-season play.

When Eliot Avent was hired as NC State’s Head Baseball coach in the mid 1990s the Wolfpack’s baseball program was clearly ahead of UNC-CH’s (then coached by Mike Roberts). In the years that have followed NC State has upgraded our facilities with a multi-million improvement while UNC fired Roberts and hired Mike Fox. During the same time period the Tar Heels have vaulted to a Top 10 program in the country (two consecutive CWS appearances) while NC State has slid into the bottom half of the Atlantic Coast Conference.

Now the Tar heels are embarking on a huge renovation to their stadium that will catapult it far ahead of the poorly executed renovation at Doak Field in Raleigh. Since NC State’s athletics department clearly believe that the impact of individuals and human capital is irrelevant and facilities supposedly deliver Championships then I guess it won’t be long until they come back to WolfpackNation and ask for more money to go build a new stadium so that we can keep up off-the-field (since we don’t care about keeping up on the field).

……crunch….. We talked about Davidson in this entry on Friday before the Wildcats went out and manhandled Wisconsin to advance to the Elite 8.

I was thinking about the Wildcats’ success and was struck with a depressing realization – After growing up a die-hard Wolfpack fan, I entered NC State as a college freshman in 1989. In the twenty years that have transpired since, the Davidson Wildcats have advanced to as many Sweet 16s and more Elite 8s than NC State’s Basketball program. All hail the Wildcats! At least they wear red.

……crunch…..The Wildcats’ run to the Elite Eight contains tons of sad irony for NC State fans. Try some of this on for size. Davidson, whose school colors are a shade of red that resembles NC State’s colors:

* won their first two games of the NCAA Tournament on NC State’s home court at the RBC Center in Raleigh.

* defeated Georgetown in Raleigh to advance to the Sweet 16. Georgetown defeated NC State in the Sweet 16 in 1989 as the beneficiary of ‘the worst call in NCAA Tournament history’. (Must see link here).

* defeated the same Georgetown program team eventually won the recruiting battle against NC State for top point guard prospect, Chris Wright, whom the Wolfpack clearly could have used this year.

* defeated Wisconsin in the Sweet 16 last night to advance to the Elite 8. In 15 years as a Division One Head Basketball Coach, Herb Sendek’s only Sweet 16 team (at NC State) was defeated by…Wisconsin. The Wolfpack led by approximately double digits at halftime of the Sweet 16 game against the Badgers before pulling one of a series of disguisting collapses in postseason play during the early part of this decade in the Sendek years (Duke in ACC Title game; Maryland in ACC semi-finals; Vanderbilt in NCAA R32; Wisconsin in NCAA S16)

* defeated Wisconsin in the the Sweet 16 last night. Wisconsin is coached by Bo Ryan who employs an offense very similar to Coach Sendek’s at NC State. One of the most secretive items related to the NC State Head Basketball Coaching search two years ago was a meeting between Wisconsin’s Ryan and Lee Fowler (and NC State’s screening committee). ESPN was the only major media outlet to mention the smoke between the two parties at the time but no specifics were confirmed. Since the search, we have confirmed the conversations with a very guarded Ryan who was extremely sensitive to a leak and his fan base learning of his interest in our job. Ultimately, NC State’s contingent were not impressed.

* will play Kansas in the Elite 8. The Kansas Jayhawks defeated NC State’s last Elite 8 team in 1986 to advance to the Final Four before losing to Duke in Coach K’s first Final Four team.

* will play Kansas in the Elite 8. The Kansas Jayhawks were coached by Larry Brown when they defeated NC State’s last Elite 8 team in 1986. NC State’s Lee Fowler spoke with Larry Brown multiple times during Fowler’s search for a new NC State coach two years ago. Brown was a very vocal supporter of — Sidney Lowe for the Wolfpack’s job. In fact, many people close to the search reference a late push by Brown on Lowe’s behalf as a key factor to the late momentum that Lowe’s candidacy received.

* As RickJ shared in our comments section, Bill Self, the current Kansas coach replaced John Calipari on Larry Brown’s staff at Kansas. Self was an assistant in the 1985-1986 season when Kansas beat NC State in Kansas City – our last Elite 8 appearance. Self was still the coach at Tulsa and was identified by the folks on this blog as a super potential candidate for the Wolfpack when NC State fans started clamoring for removal of Herb Sendek in the late 1990s and 2000. Lee Fowler chose to stick with Herb Sendek and Self moved on to re-build Illinois struggling program before replacing Roy Williams at Kansas.

……crunch….. As we mentioned ^above, Bo Ryan’s name was one of the ‘quietest’ that was legitimately connected with NC State’s coaching search two years ago. Ryan was not very impressive to those close to the search. Another quiet name (but more public than Ryan) that was also poorly received by NC State was Lon Kruger, whom met with NC State representatives in Atlanta (if I remember correctly). At the time, we did a “Lon Kruger Entry” and a “Long Kruger Media Entry”.

Do you need more irony in this entry? How about the connection that Lon Kruger was replaced at Illiniois by none other than…Bill Self!?

CBS ran a detailed biography of Kruger’s career that we thought would be relevant to link in light of today’s entry.

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53 Responses to Saturday Bytes – Tarheels defeat Wolfpack (sound familiar?) OR State’s/Davidson irony (Updated 2pm)

  1. RickJ 03/29/2008 at 11:56 AM #

    Great stuff and consider this – Bill Self, the current Kansas coach replaced John Calipari on Larry Brown’s staff at Kansas. He was there for one season, the 1985-1986 season when Kansas beat us in Kansas-City and as you painfully point out – our last Elite 8 appearance.

  2. StateFans 03/29/2008 at 12:07 PM #

    ^ I’m adding that to the entry. Unreal

  3. graywolf 03/29/2008 at 12:08 PM #

    Sad state of affairs for NC State athletics. I see no changes planned for the future. The only thing that changes this out of control methodology is MONEY or should I say the lack of MONEY. But, with LTR’s that will not change either.

    At 50 I would like to live long enough to see another ACC championship in something other than cross country, but I am not hopeful.

    But, as an alumnus ,I bleed red and will still pull for NC State until the end.

  4. Mr.wolfpack90 03/29/2008 at 12:13 PM #

    get this we beat davidson,villanova,rider(cbi),vtech(nit ncaa bubble),
    miami(who beat duke ncaa team and won their first round game)beat wake (whom beat duke)florida state(nit).
    Davidson,elite eight
    villanova sweet 16
    miami 32
    v tech ncaa snub and final 8 nit
    rider cbi
    florida state nit

    six quality wins with a bad team or badly coached one?
    who said we don’t have talent
    go davidson!

  5. TopTenPack 03/29/2008 at 12:43 PM #

    “poorly executed renovation at Doak Field”

    Can you elaborate? I am out of the country and have only heard good things about the renovations.

    SFN: of course that’s all you’ve heard because nobody would ever dare be honest about anything. The over-budget renovation that was not completed on time ended up not looking nearly attractive as some people (most of whom were associated with the project) will admit.

    Just for clarification – How many NCAA Tournament games have we hosted since spending all of this money on this important renovation?

  6. 1.21 Jigawatts 03/29/2008 at 12:45 PM #

    SFN: Fixed! Thanks so much! We try to type to fast!

  7. tulsapack 03/29/2008 at 12:51 PM #

    This is a little unfair on the baseball team, as their ACC schedule is extremely frontloaded this year–3 likely regional hosts plus Clemson, who are very talented and still might recover their season. That’s 4 of the top 5 in the ACC, with only FSU at the end of the year left to play; if we can take one off UNC there’s still a good chance of reaching 19 or 20 wins in conference this year.

    (The disappointment was the Saturday game against Clemson, which we lost on a freakish sequence of flare singles. That one might end up costing us a regional.)

    I’m frustrated with Avent too–just looking at South Carolina since Ray Tanner went there is frustration enough–but we’re not resigned to a mediocre season quite yet.

    SFN: We aren’t talking about just this year in baseball. But, we understand the NC State rationale that it is somehow ‘unfair’ to expect our team to be as good as the other teams that we play against on the schedule. If only WE could be a likely regional host and their fans could refer to us as a tough stretch on the schedule.

  8. SaccoV 03/29/2008 at 1:01 PM #

    1) It is depressing to be a Wolfpack fan. In all sports, in all seasons, at all times. I love NC State and I hate being an NC State fan, as there is increasingly NOTHING to be hopeful about. Like most of you, I will place my salvation in the upcoming football season.

    2) I thought this baseball team was supposed to be an offensive juggernaut. Again, the SID has made sure that everyone knows how powerful our offense is, so much so that we’re LAST in the ACC in batting average, last in Slugging, last in OBP, last in hits, last in runs scored, etc. We’ve got good pitching this year. which helps when you lose by three runs or less against good teams. Avent was not ready to coach this team. We’re an average college baseball team in a superior baseball league. No chance of significant improvement.

    3) What else can I do as an alumnus, as a NC State fan, to remove Lee Fowler from my universe? Please someone, help!!

  9. Trip 03/29/2008 at 1:39 PM #

    Uh…

    Umm..

    Go Davidson?

  10. LRM 03/29/2008 at 1:47 PM #

    I think it’s important to point out that a change in leadership is only the beginning of the process. Unless we find some proactive, strategic leadership to take us forward, we might as well get used to these conversations and all these cruel, cruel ironies. Making a change for the sake of making a change doesn’t solve this problem.

  11. Afterglow 03/29/2008 at 3:05 PM #

    I think we have to figure out how we can become an effective ripple in the administration. Perhaps we have some effect but not enough.

    Media plays a big role in perception and Lee Fowlout knows it. Money is also a big role (if not bigger). When it comes down to it, everything we say along with all of the energy we put into these posts amounts to mere ranting and raving and little else. But the reality is there is a brain trust here, which if utilized correctly could actually have a bigger effect on removing someone like Lee Fowlup. We’re all very well spoken individuals who have good perspectives on things that go beyond sports and yet to each other, our anonymity doesn’t go too far beyond our user names. My point is; we are beyond that because everyone who posts here and even those who simply just read has (I believe) a resource that can be utilized in some productive fashion. Or maybe that thought is just loony.

  12. grouchomarx 03/29/2008 at 3:19 PM #

    I agree with most of the posts on this site regarding the sorry state of all our athletics progams and LF’s ineptitude. But enough of the constant whining about it-the only way the average fan can effect change is to get involved at the local level of the WPC and push for it. So assuming that most of you are members(if you’re not, then STFU), quit pissing and moaning, contact your local WPC rep, and make your voice, and your friends’, heard up thru the organization, not on a message board.

  13. Afterglow 03/29/2008 at 3:48 PM #

    grouchomarx-In some respects your right. But if one were to play devils advocate, being a part of the Wolpack Club could be a defeating cause because in essence, you’re supporting what inevitably is fueling Lee Fowlers annual salary of $203,000 and his stay at NC State. So perhaps one could say-no longer being a Wolfpack Club member would be more of an impact than being one. I think there’s an argument for both. I am not one so I will STFU.

  14. Howler 03/29/2008 at 4:02 PM #

    Try this on for size. I am married to a UNC grad, but our 8 yr old has always sided with me and supported her old man’s alma mater, the Pack…..that is until the end of State’s b-ball season this year when she informed me that it is just no fun supporting a team that “doesn’t try hard and always loses.” She now pulls for the boys in blue.

    I can remember being 5 years old when the ’74 championship stoked my fire and made me a State fan for life, but is there anything that can stoke the fires of the next generation of State fans? Not under LF’s watch anyway.

    Also, anybody got tickets for next year’s Big Ten – Southern Conference Challenge?

  15. Rochester 03/29/2008 at 4:03 PM #

    Recruiting rankings for Davidson players, according to Scout.com:

    2007 Aaron Bond **
    2006 Stephen Curry ***
    2006 William Archambault **
    2006 Dan Nelms **
    2006 Bryant Barr *
    2005 Max Paulus-Gosslein **
    2005 Andrew Lovedale Unranked (from Nigeria via England)
    2004 Boris Meno **
    2004 Thomas Sander **
    2004 Jason Richards **

    Not saying we shouldn’t be grabbing as many 4 and 5 star guys as we can get, but what you do with the talent you get once you have it makes a big difference. I don’t think Bob McKillop just rolls the ball out there and lets the guys go at it.

  16. newt 03/29/2008 at 4:11 PM #

    Those complaining about Fowler have shot a quick email to Oblinger questioning his nomination of Fowler for the Award for Excellence, right?

    You just have to say three things:

    1 – Noted your understanding of the importance of athletics indicated by your nomination of 3 athletics department officials for your Awards for Excellence.

    2 – Do you realize that NC State has top-20 fan support in terms of donations and attendance but is a faltering program near the bottom of the ACC and BCS conferences in athletics performance across the board? By what rationale is this performance excellent?

    3 – Please show proper leadership in this area and take action to bring NC State athletics up the standard that matches the enthusiasm and contributions of the NC State community.

  17. cowdog 03/29/2008 at 4:43 PM #

    Groucho, you are dead on with your take.

    Posting here does nothing to facilitate direction in the program. Making waves within the WPC might, but few of us have much influence I’m sure

  18. wufpup76 03/29/2008 at 5:06 PM #

    Enough gloom and doom for me today … I’m going to sit back and watch some (hopefully) good baskteball and good games and *hope* that my beloved Pack can be on this stage again some day 🙂

    Go Xavier!

    go louisville (kinda, more than the blue babies anyway) … although, cheering for Louisville, a Big East team, is enough to make me lose my considerable appetite

  19. highstick 03/29/2008 at 5:21 PM #

    I have a hard time believing that the Wolfpack Club can’t see what has happened to N C State athletics in the past 20 years. Have they made strides to fix it? Not that I can see! So until I get a pledge from them that they are, my money is not going to the Wolfpack Club! If they change their minds, I’ll be glad to change mine! But in the meantime, I am not going to STFU! I think S’ing the FU has been the problem for 20 years. We need to be speaking up and “acting up”!

  20. DRW 03/29/2008 at 5:51 PM #

    highstick: Unless you are big time donor to the University, I’m afraid that you speaking up will fall on deaf ears.

    I could be wrong, though.

  21. Astral Rain 03/29/2008 at 5:57 PM #

    Honestly, long-term, really bad results might be the best thing that would happen. I think it would take an 0-16 ACC season to get Fowlup fired.

  22. StateFoxer 03/29/2008 at 6:04 PM #

    I think we would have to do something more then just not give money. We would have to actively not give money.

    Instead of giving money to the Wolfpack Club, give money to the United Way and make the donation in a WPC representative’s name. If you can send a memo, make sure that they know the donation is money that could be going to State. That way they’ll know it’s not a matter of members being cheap or cutting back on donations. They would clearly know it was a protest.

    It might be more effective if we all picked one WPC representative.

  23. StateFoxer 03/29/2008 at 6:10 PM #

    Plus the Wolfpack Club could quantify how much money was actively being donated elsewhere.

  24. Afterglow 03/29/2008 at 6:13 PM #

    Maybe I won’t STFU.

    I don’t think you have to join a club and pay money to be heard. There’s another way. I certainly agree that this BLOG isn’t “the way”. But no one can argue that a lot of the people on this BLOG have the same desire for NC State. And there are plenty of people who aren’t big time donors whose words don’t fall upon deaf ears. I still believe there’s a brain trust of people here who could, if they desire, accomplish something beyond “pissing and moaning”.

  25. Wxwolf 03/29/2008 at 6:20 PM #

    Well, in a rare bit of good news, baseball did come back to beat UNC 8-6! (http://www.gopack.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9200&ATCLID=1423943)

    Unfortunately, while on GoPack.com, I saw a picture of LF that pretty much sums things up: http://www.nmnathletics.com.edgesuite.net/pics3/420/DH/DHDDEPFMNDNWHRY.20061209200329.JPG

    Sorry if the links don’t work, haven’t posted in a long time!

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