“Quest for Last” Almost Complete

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball114

With Virginia’s 76-74 win over Georgia Tech last night, NC State is just one small step away from claiming the cellar in the ACC, along with the #12 seed in the ACCT. As long as the Wolfpack loses as expected at Wake Forest on Saturday (or Virginia and Boston College each wins 1 of its last 2 games), the quest will be complete. The Pack loses all tiebreakers, having won no games against Virginia, Georgia Tech, or Boston College.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball

114 Responses to “Quest for Last” Almost Complete

  1. packgrad93 03/04/2008 at 1:05 PM #

    “Subtract OUTSIDE SHOOTING ”

    we have 3 players shooting over 42% from 3 in ACC play.

  2. 44fan 03/04/2008 at 1:06 PM #

    DO NOT GET ME WRONG. I am not for firing Sid. He has only been here 2 yrs, as everyone knows. This season’s results come from bad coaching. The things that they struggled with are things coachs are suppose to fix, BOTTOM LINE. I just hope he can learn from this, and maybe he will be a better coach next year.

  3. choppack1 03/04/2008 at 1:19 PM #

    vtpackfan – I think you’re reading something into his statement that isn’t there. No one would wish the pain that Lowe has had to endure to anyone. I think he’s talking about the pain that comes from exhaustion of running, lifting and playing the game to a point of exhaustion.

    E89 – I don’t know enough about any of the staff to finger point. I do know that all 3 of the coaches of our staff had losing records before coming NC State. I do know that what I’ve seen this year represents a breakdown on so many levels, that something significant needs to change in the off-season if we’re to expect something different.

    Shooting guard – I think some of us were expecting more this year because we thought that there’d be some improvement of the 5 returning guys this year. We figured that w/ a staff including 3 former PGs, we’d be bringing in guards good enough to have a good season.

    Some of us weren’t happy w/ the effort for most of last year, and stupidly figured we’d see that kind of effort most games this year. (I fall in that category.)

    I don’t buy the agrument that what we’ve seen is a direct result of a lack of a great PG. We’d definitely be better, but in those 9 conference games where we lost by double digits…I’m just not sure that 1 PG would have resulted in us winning any of those 9 games.

    I still don’t see any signs that Sidney believes he’s done anything wrong this year – and that’s what worries me most.

  4. Wait_Til_This_Year 03/04/2008 at 1:39 PM #

    Once again, Virginia never was that bad. If you’d seen some of their close games, you would know they were due for some wins sooner or later. Who knew we were due for a 0-for in the last 7-8 games, though? Still holding out h@pe that we can beat Wake. Also would like to win the ACCT and STILL have the sense of desperation going into next year, as talked about above.

    As a proponent of the “it’s mostly our guard play” argument, I’ve been glad to see Javi develop, too, but he still has yet to hold his own against the elite of the league, i.e. Singletary, Rice, etc. If we make it to an ACCT game where he will face one of these guys, it will be interesting to see if he’s finally up to the challenge.

  5. beowolf 03/04/2008 at 1:47 PM #

    Beo – I was using that term somewhat tongue and cheek, but I wasn’t displeased w/ our effort. I was disgusted, but only because it proved just how badly we’d been mailing it in for the majority of our conference games this year. This is opposed to being disgusted w/ our effort in general.

    Fully understood. I agree, also.

  6. ShootingGuard 03/04/2008 at 2:18 PM #

    As far as all the “shake up” talk goes, the only person who needs to be replaced right now is LEE FOWLER. If you don’t like the coaching staff in year 2, fire the guy who totally blew the coaching search first. Then, the guys HE hired all by himself will get the message from the new AD that they will be next if there is not improvement.

    BJD: I like that idea very much.

    Packgrad93,

    Good numbers. Unfortunately, we stunk for most of the non-conf schedule, and, while we seem to have improved our shooting mostly at home down the stretch, the results don’t really show up so much due in part to the competition we have faced at home even while having better shooting from JG, etc.

    “Shooting guard – I think some of us were expecting more this year because we thought that there’d be some improvement of the 5 returning guys this year. We figured that w/ a staff including 3 former PGs, we’d be bringing in guards good enough to have a good season.”

    Agreed. Unfortunately, as far as the guard situation goes, the staff did not really have the timeframe window to bring in anyone great, thanks to Chris Wright. Degand was brought in as insurance and backup for Chris Wright. Chris Wright’s second reversal right at signing day really set us back, especially since it screwed us up with the Ole Miss kid. Johnson was brought in to be another athlete and potential point guard option (for those Herb lovers trashing this move, keep in mind that Herb recruited Johnson to the bitter end only to see Pearl pull him away). Gonzalez was brought in late as insurance as it became pretty clear that Johnson was not likely to be an answer at point. Jai Lucas was never going to come here. Degand’s injury was not the difference between being great or good, but it definitely hurt badly—how much we will never know. November will tell us whether the Sid regime will only be able to struggle and fight to be mid-tier good with little margin for error keeping us out of the cellar OR whether we can be really good. It is not about getting one potentially stellar player like John Wall (just like Wilkins, Hodge, JJ, or anyone else can’t carry it all)—it is about getting multiple talents at the same time such as a Wall + Brown backcourt with a strong front court and enough lead talent to allow a role playing shooter like SW being able to do what he does best, rather than asking too much of your role players (like the Evtimov’s, JG’s, etc. of the world).

  7. choppack1 03/04/2008 at 2:39 PM #

    Shooting Guard – Good post. I agree w/ you 100% on LAF. As a matter of fact, I think you’d find universal agreement on this board and most on that [Lee Fowler]confounded[/Lee Fowler] internet. Unfortunately, I don’t think our egghead Chancellor shares in this opinion.

    BJD: You’re exactly right on that front. There is zero proactiveness re athletics coming from the Chancellor.

    FWIW – I don’t really hold this staff’s feet too much to the fire for missing on Warren or Wright. I have been critical (and will continue to do so) of their apparent refusal to bring in a good combo guard. I also think that the staff hasn’t been creative enough w/ our line-up structure – like playing Grant at the 4 spot or going super big w/ a zone D.

    I also haven’t written off Marques Johnson yet (as a matter of fact, I said this in another post yesterday)- I think we’re using him in a position he’s ill-suited for right now – . Maybe next year we’ll see him at the 2 or 3 spot. He also is OK in my book because he apologized to the fans.

  8. packof81 03/04/2008 at 3:05 PM #

    I may end up with egg on my face but I’m predicting a loss to WF Saturday and a loss in 1st round of the ACCT. This season just needs to be put out of it’s misery. At this point, I’m trying to keep my expectations low and my acceptance high.

  9. blackdom 03/04/2008 at 3:17 PM #

    Crazy talk= MJ out of position? yes if he sees the court he is out of position!
    Great Talk= Fire Fowler yes for sure! But any AD worth their salt would not come aboard with this current BBall Staff in the house.
    The first thing a new and competent AD would do is clean house.
    an aside not being involved in the big 10/acc challenge I can’t wait to see who we schedule instead? perhaps NJIT?

  10. packbackr04 03/04/2008 at 3:37 PM #

    good to see shootinguard around. i always enjoy his insight.

    Perhaps you are right about Sid not needing to fire any of his assistants. But it is just really frustrating to see the poor fundamental and how out of shape these guys have been all year. it has to be someones fault.

    also, are you saying that we should know by next novemeber whether or not Sid can right this ship? b/c i dont see much changing between now and then. nothing of imprt is coming in next year that would make me think we will be exponentially better. I dont think Degand is the answer, and i dont think Javi is it either. WE NEED A PG! I think Sid needs to bring in a good PG and now.

    And for a final question to shootinguard. do you have any knowledge of or have any inclinations that we will have any defections this yr? is JJ for going pro? is Costner destined for Euro Ball? Does marques johnson realize he cant dribble with his left hand and transfer to Presbyterian? are Tracy smith or Johnny Thomas disenfranchised with the program and thinking of transferrring? any word on anybodysd future not being with NCSU next yr?

  11. packbackr04 03/04/2008 at 3:41 PM #

    speaking of, noone on here has mentioned how terrible JJ’s hands are. he bobbles more passes that need to be caught cleanly so he can go straight up with the rock for the jam. And they all appear to be good passes, he just cant get the handle on it. IMO, he is a long way from playing in the NBA. and as has been discussed here, that doesnt really mean much. as getting a payday from the NBA and PLAYING in the NBA are 2 totally seperate beasts

  12. b 03/04/2008 at 3:46 PM #

    Last is probably the better chance at a tourney run, because Duke is gonna bet UNC Saturday and end up in first. We finish last and we likely see VT and Md in some order on Thursday and Friday, and then Duke Saturday. Hope Clemson beats UNC, and hope we have another miracle run in us.

    I for one would like this miserable season to extend, so that we can have much needed extra practices and something of a cherry on top of this crap-sundae they served up this year.

    I don’t think our team, or media and us as fans for that matter, would duplicate the unrealistic expectations going into next year. I’m certain I wouldn’t.

  13. ADVENTEROO 03/04/2008 at 4:02 PM #

    Do any of you HC Lynchers need extra rope or perhaps some tar and feathers? This is PATHETIC. I was at the Coaches show last night. Sid is feeling the pain. He does NOT need all the Monday Morning PG’s telling him that we lost and that he is going to be castigated (perhaps castrated)…

    He, off the air and record, was furious about the officiating and has taken steps, within the ACC, to protest and express his concerns.

    Perhaps all of you want the mealy mouthed Calipara of Steve “greaseball” Lavin to come in. You will NOT get a HC like you want with Lee “I THINK I know BB – it is the game where they use the ROUND ball, not the funny one with points on each end” Fowler.

    The demise of WP Sports, for those of you in diapers or on “recreational chemicals” during the mid 80’s started with a hatchet job by a maverick author, a “Dan Rather” piece(s) by the N&O and finally the capitulation to the Admin and Faculty (Brother Monteith, whereforth art thou?). After that, it was over. It will take a NEW Chancellor and a NEW AD and a NEW “Faculty Oversight” committee to restore (put Humpty back together again” what was there.

    The Jimmy V ’83 run was probably a lucky streak…and I know that…but we STILL have it to talk about. I have NOT heard the UNX or DOOK folks talk about their runs…they are forgotten. CBS keeps the memory alive. I suspect that, 25 years from now (and I HOPE I’m around to see if my predictition comes true) they will STILL rank the ’83 team’s accomplishments as one of the greatest sports stories of all time.

    OK…Let’s all take a deep breath. Maybe the Nay Sayers will go away or get a virus…

    I will be pulling for the pack at WF and will be in Charlotte cheering them on. I have NOT made arrangements to sell my tickets to the Dookies or the UNX’ers…as a matter of fact, the bookies are betting that BOTH UNX and DOOK are NOT in the final game…

    Who know…we may be there again..and if so, I will dwell on the positives…not be whining and crying about what could have been…

    GO PACK

  14. legacyman 03/04/2008 at 4:17 PM #

    The only cleaning out that needs to be done is to get rid of the negative jerks who don’t know squat about basketball or our program other than perhaps watching a few games on tv. Coming into the season there were posters on other boards who warned of being over optimistic…wait until you see how the team reacts to having a green PG trying to replace Atsur who was mature and had four years of experience in Raleigh as well as several years of international experience. Just when we appeared to be starting to gel a bit, down goes Farnold and a really green PG now has to take over.

    Without an experienced, good PG how could anyone expect us to beat teams like unc-ch, dook, Md, etc. Only the foolhardy expected it. Most of us wanted it.

    On top of inexperience, we had a crop of players left over from a previous regime that ran a different offense from what Sidney intended to install. Certainly there would be problems from the change but it had to be attempted.

    It will have to be done next year also as we will have pretty much the same crop of players other than GG and probably JJ plus the addition of the two new recruits. The PG position will have to improve at least to the adequate level but hopefully to the good level. Once there is a floor leader who intills confidence then the team will have a chance to improve and start the trip to where most of us want them to reach.

    If anyone wants our program to improve and return to the top three of the ACC then join in and support the program; otherwise, leave. This ignorant sniping does no one any good unless it helps some feel like they are important…sorry but you are not. Most of us contribute what we can and support as we can…that is all we can do unless we are named the same as the heavy rollers and belong to their family trees.

  15. Wait_Til_This_Year 03/04/2008 at 4:28 PM #

    ^b,

    Agreed. Even if we won the ACCT, most of us fans should’ve learned our lessons about inflated expectations. It would be nice to end with a good run, just so GG gets to leave on a positive note.

  16. Noah 03/04/2008 at 4:32 PM #

    “Coming into the season there were posters on other boards who warned of being over optimistic”

    …

    “If anyone wants our program to improve and return to the top three of the ACC then join in and support the program; otherwise, leave.”

    So the problem with the NCSU basketball team this year…according to you…was the tone of the people posting on the message board?

  17. choppack1 03/04/2008 at 4:41 PM #

    legacy – I can only speak for myself. The reason why I was so disappointed this year had nothing to do w/ our talent – or lack thereof.

    If I believed our guys were well-prepared and are giving maximum effort, I’d feel really good about the future. If I see that early next year, I’ll probably start to feel good about our future again.

    Finally, I’m waiting for someone on our staff to take accountability for where we are now. Things often get worse before they get better – hopefully, that’s all we’re going through right now is some growing pains.

  18. graywolf 03/04/2008 at 4:52 PM #

    The Positive : Starting next season we have no where to go but up. I think the mix might actually be better next year depending on who leaves and who stays. I was very encouraged by the play of this team saturday. My hope is that coach Lowe had something to do with what happened on saturday. My fear is that he did not.

    One thing about NC State fans and graduates. We support NC State athletic through thick and thin.

  19. packbackr04 03/04/2008 at 4:56 PM #

    “If anyone wants our program to improve and return to the top three of the ACC then join in and support the program; otherwise, leave”

    so youre saying that dissent is not welcome? what is this nazi germany? i love NCSU sports, but i, along with many others, are just extremely troubled by what weve have seen this yr.

  20. vtpackfan 03/04/2008 at 5:04 PM #

    I’m certainly glad to see ShootingGuard back in the mix aswell. He has his own agenda of why he hasn’t been popping up more, but my suspecion is that he saw the writing on the wall forever ago that the commentary here on issues basketball would sink in quality in equal proportion to the actual play on the court.

    I feel that way reading this thread. I’ve read stuff like “So far I’ve haven’t seen any signs that Lowe gets that things aren’t well”, and JJ Hickson is an uncordinated bafoon.

    Come on folks, playing (posting) to the competition (team results) just shouldn’t cut it. Even the worst of the HerbHate days were never as gloom and doom as people are making this out to be, IMO.

    Oh, and in case I missed a post above, there is a tribute on WRAL @ 7:30 honoring the Cardiac Pack of ’83. Maybe after watching it some of you will think twice about putting HC Lowes head in a vice grip if he doesn’t say/do what we want.

  21. Anthony Grundy 03/04/2008 at 5:12 PM #

    Legacyman and ADVENTEROO and others

    I’ve said give Sid a chance. One season does not make a trend. The point guard situation is not all Sid’s fault (Degand injury). The fact that Costner has been terrible this year is not Sid’s fault. Additionally, all coaches would be hesitant to bench last year’s best player.

    However, Sid really should have played Fergie and Smith a lot earlier. This isn’t Monday morning quarterbacking either. A few other fans and myself have called for Smith and Fergie to get more PT in the past (well before the dook game). It’s takes just a couple of minutes to know that they are much more skilled than some of the other players at their position. This should have been recognized during practice sessions, not because of attrition. Moreover, Fergie should have been a lock to get some minutes because he’s the teams best shooter by far. Shooters create space. He should have at least been given a chance in the rotations early in the season after we lose to powerhouse times like UNO and ECU.

    Just because we don’t coach D-1 doesn’t mean some of us don’t know what we are talking about. Memphis and the Boston Celtics use an offense which was solely created by a high school basketball coach. Conversely just because a coach made mistakes doesn’t mean he should be fired. Any of us would have made a million mistakes as head coach by now…so we should lighten up on the criticism. But as a full-time professional head coach, we hope the oversights are small and the mistakes are few.

  22. RagingWolf 03/04/2008 at 6:06 PM #

    I’m in coach Lowe’s corner for the following reasons:

    A. He loves NC State as much as all of us.
    B. He is a good man and father figure that I believe a lot of young basketball players would enjoy playing for.
    C. His blood boils when he sees “the blues”.
    D. What’s the alternative? We found out the hard way that even tons of money won’t sway the elite coaches.
    E. I want to see if he learns from his mistakes.
    F. What’s he cooking dinner with? Looking at recruiting classes 2004 – 2008. Duke & UNC got 8 5-star players and 6 4-star players. We got 2 and 5. (PS. UNC has 4 5 star commitments for 2009 already!!!)

  23. jamieinkorea 03/04/2008 at 6:35 PM #

    You know, when people said that Sid would return us to the days of the past, I assumed they meant Jimmy V. Turns out they meant Les Robinson.

  24. wufpup76 03/04/2008 at 6:37 PM #

    I’m w/ Shooting Guard on the team’s talent level and season performance …

    The team has underperformed, no doubt, but I wholeheartedly agree that this particular team is/was not good enough to finish 3rd in the Acc this season, injuries notwithstanding …

    #5 or #6 I think COULD have been possible, but things broke another way 🙁

    I remember going to the exhibition games and thinking “Ohh my, we are REALLY overrated.” … Of course, I didn’t think we would finish last, but the writing was on the wall as far as being overrated

    ***

    Someone above mentioned Hickson’s hands, etc. … His decision making down low has been somewhat suspect all season … He really is an all-or-nothing player at this point – he’s either going to bull in and score or turn the ball over / get rejected, etc. … His talent level is extremely high, but dealing with double teams and swinging the ball out are clearly things that he had almost no experience with coming into the program …

    It’s my (humble:) opinion that Hickson’s struggles in the last few games have come with trying to adjust from being a “black hole” to someone who quickly decides when to go strong and when to kick it back out and subsequently his turnovers have increased … I see him trying, though 🙂

    Compare Hickson to Smith … We relied on Hickson’s raw talent in the non-conf. portion of the schedule to help carry us while the guard situation worked itself out … Meanwhile, Smith was able to be an understudy, of sorts, and work on his defense and decision making through the flow of the offense in practice … I would actually rate Tracy as a better contributor to the team right now than Hickson, while giving the edge in natural talent to Hickson

    I think that proverbial “freshman wall” may be onsetting with Hickson and his decision making / overall play, while Smith is ready to take off (as he has played very well in the last couple of games)

    I would certainly understand Hickson going pro if the selection / money was right, but I really hope he comes back not only for the team’s sake but also his own as his decision making with the ball should be much improved next season … Imagine getting great ball movement with Hickson in the game setting up open shots and one-on-one play for Hickson/Smith/McCauley/Costner down low … Then the team may really be able to do some real damage on offense 🙂

    Go Pack

  25. john of sparta 03/04/2008 at 6:37 PM #

    graywolf……NOwhere to go but up?
    how about STAY here? at the bottom?
    Miami fired it’s AD.
    GaT did too.

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