Wolfpack Collapse In Final Two Minutes- Clemson 71, NC State 64

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball127

NIT ticket camp out starts on Monday. more to come


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07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball

127 Responses to Wolfpack Collapse In Final Two Minutes- Clemson 71, NC State 64

  1. Greywolf 02/17/2008 at 11:16 AM #

    wolf on Chapelhill
    Feb 16th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
    “The posts indicating that we should feel OK about this game because Clemson’s a good team thoroughly disgust me.”

    Your want to get into a pissing contest? Fine with me. Not one post says a damn thing about feeling good about this game. Why don’t you take your trolling ass over to your UNX blog and bash the Pack. Your negative, bashing posts thoroughly disgust me.

    This is a State Fans blog and if you got a problem with some of us looking for positives in a very negative season, that’s TFB.

  2. OgdenUTWolf 02/17/2008 at 12:18 PM #

    Nice post Haze.

    Okay, so what do we have left? Let’s build some momentum and expectations for next year.

    Go Pack!

  3. pacman23 02/17/2008 at 12:57 PM #

    Triad wrote:
    “Overall I liked the effort, but I have come to the conclusion that we just are not talented enough. That would be a much different statement if anyone except Fells could make a perimeter jumper and if we had more than 3 or 4 players capable of playing defense. I really think these guys played above their heads last year and set us up for a fall this year. We need at least one or two more dependable shooters to have any chance of getting back into the dance within the next couple of years. Anyway, I’m tired and burned out and I’ll restate my conclusion – their is not enough talent, period!”

    You are correct, sir. We are all being victimized by the unrealistically high expectations we had for this season. (Sid managed to get them to overachieve as a team at the end of last season and it took every ounce of energy they had to give to do so. Why on earth did people think we were an upper echelon ACC squad knowing that we had NO experience at the point guard position? And what the hell was that talk of “the best front court in the nation”, when we only have one true front court player who happens to be a freshman? McCauley was not recruited to be a center, because we all know that position didn’t exist on our team under Coach Sendek, so don’t expect him to be able to defend and rebound like one.) Maybe if Degand doesn’t go down with the knee injury, things might have been a little different (no coincidence that we beat Davidson, Cincy and Seton Hall when he was the starter), but it simply looks like we don’t have the bodies to compete with a deep, powerful and athletic squad like Clemson. At least they were in the game at the end, but an obvious lack of execution in the last two minutes killed us. I applaud the effort and will be at least pleased to see that same type of effort over the next month.(didn’t get to see any thing but lowlights from yesterday, however, but the box score doesn’t lie-we played defense yesterday and made one hell of a comeback-it was Clemson’s offensive rebounding and our unforced turnovers that doomed us.) Hopefully that same type of TEAM effort (we have to defend and rebound as a TEAM) just might generate a few wins (four would be GREAT!) and we may still have a glimmer of hope for the NCAAT, but it is becoming apparent that goal is probably not attainable.
    I still say hold off on that NIT talk until it is a foregone conclusion. That would be March 13th, the opening day of the ACCT, at the earliest.
    If this team overachieved at the end of last season, a slim possibility exists that they can do it once more.
    What’s that NC State mantra again?
    Oh yeah, “Don’t give up, don’t ever give up”.

  4. wolfonthehill 02/17/2008 at 1:09 PM #

    “Put simply, I’m not going to rip a team when they are giving their all.”

    If I saw a team giving their all, I’d be extolling their virtues.

    I see a talented team pissing away a lot of potential. I’m not going to bend over backward to try to find a silver lining in a season that only required some semblance of consistent effort from the players to end up far differently than it has.

  5. wufpup76 02/17/2008 at 2:06 PM #

    off topic, kinda, but i’m sitting here watching uva come back from 10 down early at BC only to start playing w/ fire and confidence and lead by 8 at the half …

    point being, if a 1-win team (UVA) can pull together and fight hard on the road against a team (BC) that thoroughly whipped us, then what does that say about state’s efforts thus far?

    to be fair, match-ups are different for each opponent but, it would be nice to see state fighting like 1-win uva is today

    our team started to show some of that moxie in the 2nd half against clemson yesterday … let’s hope it’s not too late to fight harder down the stretch and hopefully get a few more victories

    go state

  6. CanisLupus 02/17/2008 at 2:15 PM #

    Everyone keeps mentioning last year’s team and the reality is that last years team was not that great and is no better or worse than this year’s team. Last year at this time we had one less win and mind you this was under the command on Engin Atsur. Last years team did some great things but it wasn’t until their backs were against the wall. We only think that last year’s team was better because it left a good taste in our mouths. Believe me; all bad tastes would be obliterated if some how, some way we won the ACC.

    And as far as talent goes; talent means very little if you don’t have a foundation of trust and chemistry. Jim Valvano inherited much better situations than Lowe did. He didn’t do so hot his first year. He had a record of 14-13 and he was perhaps wilted by the very pace of the ACC. Granted, he faired much better the following year going 22-10 but his team had quite a bit more talent with the likes of Sidney Lowe at the helm and an outside marksman by the name of Dereck Whittenburg. This along the other starters and a fairly deep bench made for a pretty good bunch; a bunch I dare say Les Robinson could have coached into the NCAA tournament.

    I’m not saying I’m not frustrated because I am. It wouldn’t hurt if I weren’t passionate about my team. I too will yell at the TV screen, I too will curse the basketball Gods above every time our players make a stupid pass, have a turn over or miss shots for long stretches of time. My palms will sweat, my heart will pound and I may not believe we can win until a win is in the column and the clock is dead. And the event of a loss, after the dust settles it may take a day of mourning but in retrospect, when all is said and done, I will know there is always tomorrow.

    Give this team and Lowe a chance. I’m not saying they’re going to create miracles this year but if after (and only after) the assemblage of quality players and the implementation of trust and chemistry is in place do we fail-can we cry foul. Until then, strap on your seat belts and prepare for a bumpy ride.

  7. transylvania 02/17/2008 at 2:25 PM #

    How frustrating! Horrible game management at the end of both halves — what was up with Courtney shooting with ~11 secs. left at the end of the 1st half instead of holding for the last shot, giving Clemson another shot at extending their lead.

    Then in the 2nd half giving them back-to-back wide open treys to seal the game.

    How is it they were able to apply pressure defense and keep us from getting the shots we wanted, while we seemed totally helpless to deny them anything?

    No defense.
    No rebounding. (other than JJ)
    Turnovers galore.
    Costner looked totally lost.

    What is this, Groundhog Day?

  8. CanisLupus 02/17/2008 at 2:35 PM #

    I kind of wonder in Brandon Costner is in a Sophmore slump. This happened to Julius Hodge to some extent.

  9. Noah 02/17/2008 at 2:42 PM #

    This is the most ridiculous offense I’ve ever seen. It requires you to guard TWO players…the guy with the ball and the guy he’s getting ready to pass to (and there’s no question who that is). Everyone else just stands around taking up space.

    Speaking of space…our use of it in terms of ball-handling and defense is pathetic.

    You guys keep blaming Herb though.

  10. werncstate 02/17/2008 at 2:52 PM #

    Actually Noah, the problem with the offense is you do not have to guard the guy with the ball which allows you to sag on the guy he’s getting ready to pass to. This is where T-Rev would make a huge difference.

  11. Tau837 02/17/2008 at 3:10 PM #

    haze – best post I’ve read on this board in a long time. Agree 100%.

    I wish there were more quality posts like that and less posts about Herb (really – who cares?) and less mindless bashing of our coach and players.

  12. wolfpackpassion 02/17/2008 at 3:12 PM #

    the fact is is say what you want about herb and i despise him here are three traits about his teams:
    1.his teams always played hard nosed defense can’t deny that.
    2.we beat the bad teams we had to win against
    3. his teams were fundamentally sound and he accomplished alot more with no talent than he did with talent.
    Our frontcourt is the second best in the acc and gratn and fells are very good nba type players and were 4-7 15-10 and about to get drilled against unc depsite g grants bullcrap talk!

    time to pull for wake loll
    at least they play hard look at uva on the road at bc wha if state had uva coach?

  13. wolfpackpassion 02/17/2008 at 3:15 PM #

    oh its a final uva 79-bc 74 hummmmm?
    worse team in acc uva goes into bc homecourt and beats them?
    What will olde s lowe say when state loses at uva?
    Well they wanted it more than we did?
    loll
    This reminds me of the olde v teams of late 80″s when we lose at tampa bt win acc title against unc.
    talented but badly coached
    wtny i guess

  14. cowdog 02/17/2008 at 4:48 PM #

    My son is thoroughly convinced that Lowe has been tugged out of his game with family issues. I’ve been pretty much dismissing this notion. However, my kid is somewhat of a sports info machine and to boot a Pac10 kid (born and raised in SoCal)so his State interests come purely from the team pictures on the walls of our house when we lived there and the stories and clippings I would show and tell. Not impartial, but not ferverant by any means.
    Lately, I’ve been more open to his take on Lowe/family.
    All of you Dads out there think about it for a moment. I have not read or heard anything about the troubled child in the Lowe house for quite sometime…nor has anyone posting here given a single byte to it once this season began.
    IMHO there has been some seriuos bench blunders this year. Not just game blunders, mind you, but organizational errs…preparational misques.
    I don’t portend to have a clue of what transpires in practices…or behind closed doors, ’cause I don’t know. In fact, I’ve never heard or read from any that might.
    But I do see when a team responds to the chief and when it does not.
    Further, MT sitting to the immediate shoulder of Lowe gives me shudders, really. Fabulous BB player he was…but… Bottom line in this rambling missive is something has been wrong all year and we have all sensed it.

  15. CanisLupus 02/17/2008 at 7:30 PM #

    I think over all we have good offensive production but defensively, we’re horrible. Players go behind screens, we don’t box out, cuts to the basket go unnoticed and our three point defense is not there. If I had my choice in turning around anything this season, I would choose the defense.

    Granted, I know sometimes even our offense looks like joke were people are just standing around and it’s one pass, one shot deal; but I think a lot of that has to do with our point guard play. Until Javi becomes more cerebral on the court and can rely on his instinct our worse, until we pull in someone like a John Wall, I don’t think that’s going to change much. We will probably continue to have laps of offensive production here and there were people are standing around not looking the slightest bit productive. But with that said, our offense isn’t totally lacking the same way our defense is, so digging out of a ten point deficit becomes all the more so difficult. If we could effectively hold teams to 40% I think we would actually do pretty well.

    As for Lowe’s personal issues I can’t claim or disclaim any of that nor will I subject myself to any speculative supposition on those issues. I suppose it could perhaps have an effect on the team but as I said before, I think the team’s issues aren’t that far removed from last years, so it shouldn’t be too much of a surprise that we are where we are. This is by enlarge the same team as last year with the same issues, we all just suffer somewhat from amnesia because last year they finished strong.

  16. WolftownVA81 02/17/2008 at 7:40 PM #

    Any one hear why Terry Gannon wasn’t at the ceremony? I understand Whittenburg missing it but I thought Sidney would at least make a cameo for the photo opp. I went to this game and I got to feel good for the first five minutes though I really did have guarded optimism. Then when Clemson went on the 18-2 run, or whatever it was, I knew we wouldn’t recover. I do agree with more effort being shown tonight but I still can’t understand why we make the same mistakes over and over. On the bright side, we did get to see the Lady Pack Gymnastics team beat Penn State, Kent State and William and Mary in a tournament in Reynolds later the same night so the trip to Raleigh wasn’t a total loss. Though I see improvement from Javi and Fergie, affraid it won’t make much of a difference this year. I’m officially waiting for football now.

  17. Noah 02/17/2008 at 8:31 PM #

    Gannon was working, I’m sure. Alvin Battle wasn’t there either.

    I think the run was 22-3.

  18. wolfonthehill 02/17/2008 at 8:34 PM #

    22-3 and 12-2.

    Ballgame.

  19. wolfonthehill 02/17/2008 at 8:36 PM #

    And this offense is far easier to defend that you guys are giving credit for.

    All you need to do is guard JJ, double-teaming if necessary, and the offense churns to a painful halt.

    You don’t have to guard the ball-handler.

    You don’t have to guard whomever he plans to pass it to.

    Guard JJ. No one else really matters.

  20. CanisLupus 02/17/2008 at 8:49 PM #

    True. It is interesting how the team seems to focus in on JJ. But there would definitely be more creativity if the offense with a point guard. It seems that right now the point guard is too heavily dependant on what is being spoken on the sidelines by Sidney Lowe rather than resorting to sheer instinct or court IQ. This was the same with Engin last year-however, he was a shooting guard playing a point guard. So I suppose one could argue that our offense is shooting 50% in large part due to JJ’s play.

  21. travelwolf 02/18/2008 at 12:39 AM #

    i seem to remember that we couldn’t buy a basket in the 1st half. we did pretty good being able to come back in the 2nd half. it does seem as though the team is out of shape. let’s hope sid gets them to workout over the summer. and let’s hope that either gonzales learns to shoot or degand improves dramatically or sid manages to land a better point guard. honestly, gonzales is doing alright considering that he wasn’t (and isn’t) really acc-caliber material. hell, he’s better than MJ – that’s quite obvious.

  22. Wulfpack 02/18/2008 at 7:04 AM #

    You are right, this wasn’t a good team last year. However, we added a dominant post player and had a year to implement the “system.” My criticism is we haven’t gotten better, in fact, I think we are worse off judging by some of the non conference blunders and overall uninspired ACC play thus far. We are sinking. Duke and UNC are top 5 programs, Maryland is solid and now Clemson and Wake are on solid footing. My question is when is it going to change? No signs this year.

  23. Rick 02/18/2008 at 7:59 AM #

    “This is the most ridiculous offense I’ve ever seen. It requires you to guard TWO players…the guy with the ball and the guy he’s getting ready to pass to (and there’s no question who that is). Everyone else just stands around taking up space.”

    I imagine some people might would listen to you if you did more than come out after a loss and whine like a little girl.

    You should be glad wolfpackpassion is around. He is the only poster I have seen that makes you look intelligent.

    Dissapointing game to say the least.

  24. 66pack 02/18/2008 at 8:07 AM #

    wulfpack with ncsu admin and atheletic dept we will always be in acc basement as we are now in all sports except maybe baseball.there is no school in acc that is worst.unc is excellent nationally in all sports except fb but within 4 years even if butch leaves they will be top 20 team for at unc they are committed to national excellence .

  25. CanisLupus 02/18/2008 at 8:16 AM #

    I think it’s hard to change something that simply isn’t there yet. We need a point guard the same way a football team needs a decent quarterback to run things. It’s like having all the high powered parts to a really sporty car (JJ, Grant, Big Ben and to some extent Fells) but not having a good enough engine to actually power it. I too believe our team has suffered some this year. I too think that we are worse off and that some of our non conference blunders and overall uninspired ACC play thus far is down right hard to watch. But take any game that we should have won or should have been more competitive at and insert Engin there and I think we would have faired much better. We look quite similar this year to last in terms of lack of emotion, heart and spirit when Engin was out with his hamstring pull. I don’t think one can put enough emphasis on how important the point guard is and with out one, I don’t care who is coaching, your simply not going to fair too well. Remember, it’s not even fair to judge Lowe’s coaching last year with Engin there because Engin was a shooting guard playing a point.

    Lowe knows we don’t yet have a formidable point which is why he is barking orders from the sideline. I’m telling you; get someone in there who can compete on this level and play some solid point and we will have ourselves a team. And look no further than the point guard for our reasons as to why our “system” still isn’t in place after a year. Degand may have been in a more formidable position to implement the system but I dare say there were and still would have been some growing pains even with him at the helm. It’s going to take a while but Javi seems to be improving every game so one never knows. Get someone in there who has the respect of his players and he will inspire things like defense, heart and emotion. Think of someone like Rivers (albeit a quarterback) but someone with that type of NEVER SAY DIE attitude and I’m certain our situation would be different. I’m equally as frustrated as anyone but I won’t judge Lowe or this team until the pieces have a chance to fall into place and honestly I don’t think it will be soon enough for us die hard fans who hurt so badly when we loose but only because we have passion for our team. But give it a chance.

    Bleed red my fellow wolfpack brethren and don’t ever look back!

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