Wake Enters NCAA Tournament Discussion; State Mired in Point Guard Mess of Our Making

We set the stage in this entry last week that unless someone started claiming some scalps that the ACC would only have four participants in this year’s NCAA Tournament.

Wake Forest’s big win yesterday over the Duke Blue Devils is exactly the kind of statement and scalp that the Demon Deacons needed to propel themselves into the conversation. If the tournament started today the Demon Deacons would probably still be on the outside looking in…but the Deacs are a lot closer than they were before Sunday’s game.

As if NC State fans needed any further salt in our wounds, the play of Wake’s freshman point guard, Jeff Teague, continues to dazzle the league and underscore the importance of having a stud at the key position.

The play of Teague also underscores the price that NC State is paying for very poor talent evaluation at the position. The Wolfpack’s coaching staff obviously ‘out thought’ themselves over the last couple of years as they amassed three commitments for the position – Farnold Degand, Marques Johnson, Javier Gonzalez – while choosing to pass on names like Jai Lucas (Florida) and Chris Warren (Ole Miss).

Warren has been so spectacular that he has a whole list of articles in USA Today that are ‘tagged’ with his name. Last week Warren earned his third SEC Freshman of the Week honors

The Orlando, Fla., native poured in a career-high 26 points at Arkansas on Saturday, his fourth 20-point performance in league play. He single-handedly kept Ole Miss in the game, scoring 18 points in the second half, including 11 straight for the Rebels in the stretch run to cut a 12-point Razorback lead with just under three minutes remaining to a three-point edge with 51 seconds left in the game. The lightning-quick rookie drained six three-pointers (6-of-8), dished out five assists and made three steals in the game.

Warren ranks sixth in the SEC with 18.4 points per game in league play and ninth with a 16.4 average in all games. He also ranks third in assists and three-pointers in all games.

The 5-foot-10, 170-pound guard already seventh in school history with 64 three-pointers made this season, while his 345 points scored are sixth-most by a freshman in the Rebel program’s history.

Additionally, Lucas’ consistency at Florida led the Jacksonville newspaper to feature him last week.

The 5-foot-11 Lucas is averaging 2.4 assists per game, but in SEC play, that number jumps to 2.8 per game, and his 16 turnovers in 10 league games are the fewest among UF’s starters.

That’s proof of Lucas’ good decision-making, according to Donovan.

“He really tries not to turn it over, and generally the biggest problem when you have young guards that are freshmen like that [is] there’s going to be a lot of turnovers,” Donovan said. “So far, they’ve done a pretty good job of taking care of the basketball and understanding that, ‘You know what? If I don’t make the right play or I miss the right play, I’m better off holding onto the ball than I am throwing to somebody and getting it turned over.”

As BJD stated in this significantly important piece last week – Coach Lowe’s job may very well rest on the recruiting class that signs with NC State this coming November with no recruit more important that Raleigh’s very own John Wall at the point guard position.

But, allow me to add a little more to that while noting the obvious – if State lands wall and Trevor Ferguson does not graduate out (forget his ‘playing status’), then the Wolfpack will literally have SIX of THIRTEEN scholarships tied up in players who can play point guard if needed – Wall, Degand, Johnson, Ferguson, Gonzalez and Julius Mays. That is absurd. So, in addition to what State needs to sign in November, the program also desperately needs to do some ‘restructuring’ of scholarships allocation and spacing.

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07-08 Basketball Sidney Lowe

171 Responses to Wake Enters NCAA Tournament Discussion; State Mired in Point Guard Mess of Our Making

  1. jbpackfan 02/18/2008 at 5:35 PM #

    Nobody wanted the job. Lee Fowler asked every damn coach in the country. Give Lowe a break.

  2. BillyVest 02/18/2008 at 6:01 PM #

    Fowler did a horrible job in the coaching search. After striking out on Barnes and Callipari, he should’ve had a back up, like some mid-major coach, who could take the job.
    Don’t tell me no one views coaching in the ACC as a good opportunity.

    Sid got his dream job. Unfortunately he’s not doing very well at it.

  3. Wait_Til_This_Year 02/18/2008 at 6:27 PM #

    Since no one mentions the good things about Sid’s coaching:

    -So far, we are a better team than last year (record-wise), and with our starting PG out for the season instead of a handful of games. We all expected to be instantly great, but this season could still wind up being somewhat of an improvement over last year, with the possible exception of the ACCT run.

    -Sid has shown himself to be a good end-of-game coach for the most part, which is something we all were looking for.

    -Yes, Ben McCauley does not seem to be quite as good as last year, but keep in mind who was coaching him when he set your expectations sky-high to begin with. Under HWSNBN, he came in for a couple minutes a game tops, and usually just racked up fouls while Simmons rested.

    -You ask who HAS improved on this team? Gavin (bigtime), JJ, and Javi have all gotten considerably better.

    -Lastly, our offense is more fun to watch now when it’s working. If this team can just get it together defensively (and I think it probably goes back to conditioning), they will be fun to watch in general, and might just win a few more games.

  4. b 02/18/2008 at 6:40 PM #

    I have seen 5 rookie PGs who have panned out well thus far. Rose, Corey Fisher, Johnny Flynn, Warren, and Stitt. They went to Memphis, Nova, ‘Cuse, Ole Miss, and Clemson. Only the Ole Miss thing was a head scratcher, and Warren has shot his team out of some games this year as well. The other four are quality teams. In some cases other quality prospects made a regional decision, only Jamelle McMillan raised my eye-brows.

    Mayo, Calathes have played well in spurts. And they chose the defending national champs and a team in L.A. for different reasons.

    Sid did manage to pull a solid PF and a premier C in the same class with Javi and Thomas, both 4 year players. Mays sounds like a combo guard, maybe he can be next years Jeff Teague, we will have two atheletes on the wings to replace Grant and can use Horner as a pullout PF to clear the lane.

    Patience and a full three years for development. It’s always darkest before the dawn.

  5. Ismael 02/18/2008 at 6:41 PM #

    Last year how many games did they lost when Engin Atsur was out…did they win any games?!?!?!, I think one or two over a 12 game stretch.

    This year’s team is last year’s team MINUS Engin…So you bring in Hickson, we still don’t have a PG to get him the ball. And this is Lowe’s fault?

    I admitted it, i bought into the media-hype and for no good reason…6 ACC wins this year, playing Duke twice, and its more successful than last year. The rest of you guys should admit it, GG saying this was the best assembly of talent he’s played with, preseason media prognostications, the exciting tourney last year…6 wins this year and its a successful season.

    BillyVest, what in the hell are you and others talking about bringing up the coaching search again?? What a worthless discussion

  6. Wait_Til_This_Year 02/18/2008 at 6:54 PM #

    “This year’s team is last year’s team MINUS Engin…So you bring in Hickson, we still don’t have a PG to get him the ball. And this is Lowe’s fault?”

    Many would say yes, but Lowe did get Degand. Him tearing his ACL really hurt us. However, Lowe may have been better off focusing on getting a top 25 PG, with big men being a secondary concern. Then again, he may have thought he had a shot with Chris Wright as well.

    SFN: Chris Wright backed out on us at the last minute. His rationale for doing so does not speak well for his chances to succeed at the high D-1 level.

  7. Rochester 02/18/2008 at 7:09 PM #

    The only coaching change we should be talking about is bringing in an assistant who is an expert on defense. Kind of like when HS brought in Larry Hunter to implement a new offensive strategy. Like it or not (and I only liked it when by some miracle we traded our souls for a night and rained 3’s from every side of the arc), he did something different that changed the look of the program overnight. We need to take a similar approach this offseason to defense and rebounding by implementing a system that actually has defense and rebounding.

    It was a fun story when our staff was put together with all the old point guards, but some diversity of expertise seems like it would go a long way toward rounding things out. If we ever want to start running again, we have to D it up. You don’t fast break taking the ball out of the opponent’s net.

  8. turnoffthetv 02/18/2008 at 7:32 PM #

    “Last year how many games did they lost when Engin Atsur was out…did they win any games?!?!?!, I think one or two over a 12 game stretch.”

    This may be an illusion. I found that we were actually 6-6 minus Atsur. We were 14-10 with Atsur in the Line-up. Point is whether he was in the line-up or out, we won games and we lost games.

  9. nycfan 02/18/2008 at 7:39 PM #

    FTR, I think it is far too early to be talking about getting rid of Lowe. I think that absent some Doherty-like debacles involving losing and player management issues or nightmares like IU has brought on themselves, any coach ought to get at least four years and probably five to show what he can do.

    This has just been a head-scratching year for Lowe as a coach and the personnel/scholarship situation does not seem to bode well in the short or perhaps long term … unless something changes. Lowe started behind the 8-ball b/c he started late in the recruiting cycle for ’07 AND ’08. Getting Hickson may have obscured that somewhat.

  10. LRM 02/18/2008 at 7:48 PM #

    So Wall is to Lowe what Wilkins was to Herb? Wonderful.

  11. newt 02/18/2008 at 8:05 PM #

    I love how people “lol” at the notion of NC State beating UNC at home in the comments section of a blogpost regarding Wake’s victory over Duke. The same Wake that lost to Georgia Tech. The same Wake that lost to NC STATE. Gosh I bet everybody was laughing when Wake ran out on the court. Why bother?

    The other irony is that the whimpering, head hanging fans on this blog would at the same time criticize our team for not trying hard enough. Now that is LOL hysterical.

    I am disappointed this season, but it’s not in the coaches or players. It’s in the fans.

    BJD: NC State hasn’t beaten a single team that would qualify for the NCAAT with an at-large bid. Not one. Ironically, the best chance we have for that to change is for Wake to make it.

  12. Mr O 02/18/2008 at 8:12 PM #

    You mean to tell me a coach’s future is tied to a recruit?

    If you look at any coach, then there is always a big recruit and usually an important class that makes that coach’s career. Johhny Dawkins, Jay Bilas, and Mark Alarie for Coach K. We saw that at NC State with Herb Sendek. Without Julius Hodge(and to a leser extent that entire class of Powell, Evtimov, Watkins, Collins, and Hodge), there is a very slim chance Herb is at a BCS basketball program as a head coach.

    As far as this season. Part of the story is the play we have gotten at the PG position, but the larger story are the eggs that have been laid by Ben McCauley and Brandon Costner. I can’t remember two guys in the last 15 years of NC State basketball have more disapppointing seasons than those two guys. Check out these stat lines from the Clemson game:

    McCauley:
    28 minutes, 3-10 fgs(all misses inside the paint), 0 ft attempts, 4 rebs

    Costner:
    1 pt, 0-3 fgs(all threes), 1 reb, 2 tos

    McCauley was terrible on Saturday. He has no post moves anymore and he has lost his touch around the basket. He needs to lose about 15 pounds to get back to a weight he can be effective at.

    For Sidney, it comes down to the 2009 class which in reality is the first full recruiting class he has been able to target since kids are now commiting as sophmores and juniors. In the past, the earliest you saw guys commit was the summer before their senior year and usually it was in the fall around the early signing period in October.

    Sidney did not start recruiting until July of 2006, so in reality he has only been recruiting kids for a little more than 18 months while other coaches have been recruiting kids for twice that long.

  13. Wait_Til_This_Year 02/18/2008 at 8:46 PM #

    Good point newt. A win over UNX would put State in roughly the same position. The Pack has done a little better against the full court press since they last played, UNX is without Lawson, the game’s in Raleigh, and they may regard NCSU lightly after the last beat down. It could happen, and it really needs to.

  14. WolftownVA81 02/18/2008 at 9:51 PM #

    newt, I don’t agree. I think the fans have been pretty patient and quite frankly I’m surprised the RBC has been as full as its been with the performance of this “team.” Most fans just want to see some improvement from game to game. With the exceptions already stated, the returning starters have not delivered. I can take a loss, but I won’t accept a half hearted effort. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable expectation.

  15. Cardiac95 02/18/2008 at 10:04 PM #

    With regards to scholarship spacing, we are really paying the price for being the “nice guys” we always are in allowing 2/3rds of Herb’s final class to walk away from their signed LOI’s penalty free.

    We held on to Horner, rushed to hand out a scholarship to a 7-2 project no longer with the team, & sat on the third. Keep those two guys in the fold would’ve changed alot of things last year & this year & left us in better shape with scholarhips in the long run.

  16. choppack1 02/18/2008 at 10:54 PM #

    Cardiac – That’s a good point. Werner has been solid and last I saw, Davis was contributing as well. If nothing else, these guys offered depth. I can also tell you from watching Werner play – he’s a scrapper. He has a toughness this team desperately needs.

    Right now Sidney, is paying the price for his team’s performance. 3 of the starter’s aren’t his recruits, but what concerns some of us – and why someone like me sees next year as critical for him as our HC for our program – is what happened to the guys who have the most exposure to him and his staff thus far. When 3 of 5 players come back w/ worse bodies and worse games than they had the year before…well, let’s just say, that someone like me who was concerned about our effort in key games LAST year (think Miami, Duke ,Clemson and BC), really gets concerned. When I look at his record in the NBA, that’s not encouraging.

    I’m not calling for his head. I’m just saying that I’m disappointed in what I’ve seen on the court for much of last year and much of this year. I still have some hope in things turning around. He knows the game of basketball, but needs mor experience w/ the college game. I don’t question his passion for NC State or his desire to build us into a great program. Hopefully, next year, we’ll see better results in the off-season, we’ll see better effort on the court and we’ll have better luck w/ injuries.

    Heck, you never know, we could get our crap together and string together a win streak. Stranger things have happened.

  17. newt 02/18/2008 at 10:55 PM #

    So, with more than 30% of the ACC regular season left and the mathematical possibility of a 9-7 regular season record, giving up on the team now is not impatient?

    Given that it’s the coach’s second season and less than his second full year on this job, it’s not impatient to already make a determination that he can’t succeed or to begin talk of firing?

    No way have we been patient with this coach so far.

  18. turnoffthetv 02/18/2008 at 11:40 PM #

    choppack1
    Feb 18th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    +1

  19. wayofthemaster 02/19/2008 at 5:19 AM #

    Seeing that we are discussing recruiting, isn’t anyone else surprised that Sid and Co. haven’t signed one player from the Maryland/D.C. area?

    I thought that was going to be one of the strengths of this coaching staff with Lowe, Strickland and Jackson having attended Dematha Catholic H.S. and Watkins attending Montrose Christian.

    These are the recruits from that area.

    2007

    Donte Greene (PF – Syracuse)
    Austin Freeman (SG – Georgetown)
    Chris Wright (PG – Georgetown)
    Braxton Dupree (C – Maryland)
    Adrian Bowie (SF – Maryland)
    Anthony McClain (C – Cincinnati)
    Malcolm Delaney (PG – Virginia Tech)
    Jerai Grant (C – Clemson)

    2008

    Henry Sims (C – Georgetown)
    Sean Mosley (SG – Maryland)
    Kris Joseph (SF – Syracuse)

    2009

    Isaiah Armwood (PF)
    Tristan Spurlock (SF)
    Dante Taylor (PF)
    Naji Hibbert (SG)

    I assumed these coaches would have brought in at LEAST one recruit from this area by now.

    Didn’t you?

  20. Wulfpack 02/19/2008 at 7:17 AM #

    “mathematical possibility of a 9-7 regular season record”

    That “possibility” is indeed strictly “mathematical” given that Sid is 9-18 (.333) in the ACC thus far.

  21. WolftownVA81 02/19/2008 at 7:30 AM #

    I’ve never said anything about getting rid of Sid. I like him and want him to succeed at NCSU. I’m just not expecting much to change this year based on what I have seen so far. I must admit though, I drank the cool aid early on and am now trying to take a more realistic approach on how long it will take us to work our way back up to respectability. In the mean time, I will continue to pull for the Pack as I have always done.

  22. Noah 02/19/2008 at 9:41 AM #

    For those who are Lowe fans, I wouldn’t worry too much about him getting fired or not getting enough time.

    If you took all of us who want him fired TODAY, you could fit us into your living room. We’re a tiny fraction of the fanbase. The power structure of NCSU’s financial base has infinite patience. So…Lowe will definitely get his time.

    But I still don’t think he should.

  23. Rochester 02/19/2008 at 10:24 AM #

    Anyone remember Rashad Green (Danny’s brother), the kid who all last year said he was coming to NC State, despite us not offering him a scholarship? He landed at Manhattan and has logged 10 double-figure scoring nights so far and is averaging more than 5 rebounds a game as a 6-4 guard. I watched the Manhattan-Siena game last night and he looked playable as a 2/3. Not great, but he came away with more than his share of rebounds. I’d trade MJ for him right about now.

  24. choppack1 02/19/2008 at 11:25 AM #

    Noah – I have to disagree there. Although there’s evidence here and in his previous stints at the NBA, that he’s not a good No. 1 – we don’t yet have the evidence required (unless there are things I don’t know about) to let him go yet.

    He walked into a situation where it was difficult for him to do much better than he’s doing. To me, it’s really the way we lose so many games – not that we’re losing them. We need to at least give him next year to see if this thing can work out.

    If next year is similar – and we don’t get a John Wall, I think we’ve really got all we need and nothing to lose by letting Lowe go. Depending on how next year goes, even the signing of John Wall may not change my opinion. Unfortunately, I think that if things don’t get much better, Sid will be in such a precarious position next year and the following one, that Wall will not want to come here.

    In addition, given what’s happened on the court this year and the possible outlook for next year, I’m worried that JJ isn’t enjoying his college experience enough to stay for another year.

  25. packbackr04 02/19/2008 at 11:40 AM #

    what is Jamelles stat line at ASU? anyone know?

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