Campout Fiasco (Updated)

Campus News NC State Administration Tradition94

‘Crisis’ averted. Friday morning update –

“After much consideration and work by student leaders, specifically Jay Dawkins, an agreement was reached with Dr. Tom Stafford. The agreement was reached that all 2,847 tickets will be allotted to Campout.”

The following was our original entry on the topic as of Thursday night:

For the years that we have been running this blog (and Statefans.com before it) we have had a community where our readers have been so appreciative that they have asked “What can we do to support you guys? Won’t you take up some donations or something?”

We never have (although we have recently gotten with the times and added some Google ads).

If you are one of those that would like to give back a little and never have had the opportunity — we have something for you.

Tonight I received the following email from a friend who asked me to forward it to others..

===========================

SO WHAT’S GOING ON?

N.C. State is about to break all records for Campout on Friday with well over 3,000+ campers, as reported in Technician on Thursday:

Jay Dawkins, Chairman of the Student Senate Campus Community Committee, worked with University Athletics to make sure every single person who camped out for the entire night Friday-Saturday would be guaranteed a ticket to the event…

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…but then shortly before 5:00pm on Thursday, Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs Tom Stafford announced that the Campus Community Committee’s decision to make people *actually* camp out to get tickets was unfair to students who did not — and he ordered that all tickets be awarded by lottery, with a set amount of tickets for students who camped out and a set amount of tickets for students who don’t.

In an email response to his decision, Student Body President Bobby Mills supported this plan, saying “Dr. Stafford, I totally agree with you… I warned the committee about this decision [to make students camp out].”

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If your odds of getting a ticket for camping out are decided at random, and the odds of getting a ticket if you *don’t* camp out are decided at random, there’s essentially no incentive to camp out.

In other words, this was an intentional sabotage of the Campout tradition.

********************

At 3:00pm on Friday afternoon, students who are outraged by the Vice Chancellor’s and Student Body President’s decision to sabotage Campout will be gathering out front of Holladay Hall for a rally to demand that the tickets get restored so that every single ticket to the UNC basketball game goes to students who actually camp out at Campout!

—————————————————————-

So, I fired off the following with my forward but had problems with my email server and decided to post it here on SFN. SInce I didn’t get it out to the masses, perhaps you can just send your friends in and around Raleigh this link. My comments were as follows:

I know that you think that you are too old for this stuff…and I know that you initially will disregard my forwarded email as really insignificant stuff…

…but, I am forwarding you this quick email to call your attention to the continued crackdown on the student experience at our alma mater. Do yourself a favor and peruse the forwarded email and the link to the Technician article to give yourself an education at just how #($#&-up the “Fun Police” have become at NC State.

You may or may not know that campouts on campus for tickets have been extinct for years. So, it was particularly encouraging to learn that the student body recognized the value of the experience and the obvious tenent that one who actually has to sacrifice for something will value the ticket significantly more than someone who makes no investment and receives something at random. (Have you been wondered why the student section doesn’t compare with when you were in school?) Of course, in the screwed up wisdom of college campuses in 2008’s America, it is considered “fair” to give things to people who don’t want to prioritize, invest, sacrifice or work for them over the people who are willing to earn the right. If only my professors would have been so “fair”.

NC State continues its rapid DE-evolution into a commuter school with very little social experience or campus life as evidenced by the continued destruction of the traditions that have historically bound generations of alumni from different time periods. We’ve already been guilty of absence as Tom Stafford has almost single-handedly destroyed NC State’s greek system which now sits at about half of the population as it did 15 years ago. And, don’t forget about the tailgating restrictions that Stafford (and crew) swept over alll alums a couple of years ago. Many wonder if Stafford and his institutionalized “fun and fair police” will stop until no student wants to live on campus and until no beer is consumed in any private or public establishment in West Raleigh.

Perhaps it is time for the key constituency of young, successful alumni and donors to start to making our voices heard for the ‘leaders’ that don’t grasp the long term value of providing a wonderful collegiate experience to students while they are on campus?

If you live in Raleigh and have a few minutes before the weekend arrives on a random Friday afternoon tomorrow, you may want to consider stopping by this event at 3pm tomorrow. Seriously…what would it hurt to invest a few minutes into something that I think/hope means something to you? The more bodies present…even if they are just milling around…will carry a big impact. (If you REALLY want to make them mad then show up drinking beer and wearing greek letters!)

I have included friends who don’t live in Raleigh on this email to encourage you to consider forwarding this to some of your friends who may be in the Triangle.

Thank you for your time.

Post-Script:
For a little more reference I am adding a couple of old blog entries that include some great comments from readers that are relevant to this that some of you may enjoy.

2/1/06 – Campout draws a small crowd

1/30/07 – Technician to Stafford: Improve or Retire

11/16/06 – Thank you, Clemson

2/21/07 – ‘Raleigh Time’

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Campus News NC State Administration Tradition

94 Responses to Campout Fiasco (Updated)

  1. Pack92 02/08/2008 at 9:43 AM #

    Mr Plywood, I spent my time mostly in Biltomore so the fringe lots around Western Blvd were my home as well. I remember well the lines for parking permits.

    Trip, there are ways to get across to the SB President that he BETTER listen to his constituents…or else.

  2. Rochester 02/08/2008 at 9:52 AM #

    MrPlywood, I parked by the baseball field for three years, and 80 percent of my classes were in the Winston/Caldwell/Tompkins Hall complex on the complete opposite side of campus. Camping out for an upgrade might have been a wise investment of my time. That was a long walk, especially in January.

  3. treznor 02/08/2008 at 9:54 AM #

    TNCSU: I’ve been to Syracuse games in both DC (against Georgetown, where the whole Metro was orange) and in Syracuse and they definitely served beer at both locations… Maybe it’s an ACC thing.

  4. treznor 02/08/2008 at 10:04 AM #

    I was at the fiasco campout of 2000 as well. Around 5000 or so people at the campout and nowhere near that many tickets. We knew we were near the cutoff but stayed anyway. People after us knew good and well they wouldn’t be getting tickets… but stayed anyway. Things definitely got out of control with many bonfires being built in places that it wasn’t really all that safe to build bonfires. I remember watching a crowd of people pull the bumper off a car and justifying it by saying the car was parked in a handicapped spot without a placard. The girl who parked there showed up (very obviously not handicapped) to the crowd booing her. That was a bit ridiculous as well.

    The crowd did get a few extra things heaped on to them for blame though. The crowd was blamed for ripping down a light pole and destroying it. However, I saw that light pole on the crowd a couple days ago where it had fallen due to winds. All the crowd did was drag it over to the area, no extra damage done.

    Things definitely got a bit out of hand at that campout but I was definitely sorry to see it cancelled for a while afterwards.

  5. choppack1 02/08/2008 at 10:09 AM #

    So – what is the true status? Those camping out get tickets?

    Another thing, in my day, just because you camped out didn’t mean you were guaranteed tickets. I think quite a few people who did it didn’t get them for the UNC game.

    What I thought was really cool was that when basketball season started, the first tents popped up. There were folks who’d camp out for every day ACC games.

    I think it says all too much about the direction that this university is heading that Stafford still has his job.

  6. RabidWolf 02/08/2008 at 10:12 AM #

    I believe it IS an ACC rule concerning alcohol at sporting events governed by the ACC. IIRC, NO ACC school sells or serves alcohol at ANY revenue OR non-revenue team competiton, while some schools in other conferences do. I guess the ACC doesn’t want a bunch of rabid fans who really hate each other’s teams to get together and cause bar-type brawls.

  7. backinpack 02/08/2008 at 10:16 AM #

    I believe it IS an ACC rule concerning alcohol at sporting events governed by the ACC. IIRC, NO ACC school sells or serves alcohol at ANY revenue OR non-revenue team competiton, while some schools in other conferences do. I guess the ACC doesn’t want a bunch of rabid fans who really hate each other’s teams to get together and cause bar-type brawls.

    Except in luxury boxes/club level seating. Somehow they get around the no-alcohol rule there.

  8. the_phisherman 02/08/2008 at 10:18 AM #

    I think that the rule is that alocohol cannot be served. Those in the luxury boxes/club level stock their own.

  9. RabidWolf 02/08/2008 at 10:19 AM #

    “Except in luxury boxes/club level seating. Somehow they get around the no-alcohol rule there.”

    Money talks, as they say.

  10. Stoner 02/08/2008 at 10:26 AM #

    Commuter schools I think are a better return on infrastructure investment dollar, since the university does not have to build new dorms for housing more students. From a number crunching standpoint it makes sense to become more of a commuter school, especially since student enrollment keeps growing.

    NCSU’s in a tough spot because the demand for college education is going up, so you have more students enrolled, but the space available for on campus housing is limited.

    I don’t think it’d be such a big deal if the university could somehow work out how to revitalize Hillsborough street and work with the city to get some sort of regular bus service from campus to some of the bars / clubs in downtown Raleigh.

  11. highonlowe 02/08/2008 at 10:27 AM #

    Its great to see that the ticket campouts are finally making a comeback, despite the administration’s resistance. I still remember that fiasco during the ’99-’00 season, my freshman year. I was in the dorms then and it was my first, and subsequently, only, campout. The group right next to us, we had set up camp between Turlington and the bookstore, got rowdy and fueled, (what had started as a modest campfire), into a a huge bonfire. Things progress, next thing you know, a drunken suitemate of mine somehow pulled the rear bumper off a near-by Grand Cherokee, and tossed it in. Police obviously were called, campout was canceled, tickets were immediately restricted, and campouts were outlawed indefinitely. The moron suitemate wasn’t arrested but it was his last semester, his parents jerked his ass back home due to poor grades. I’ve heard he sets pins at a public golf course now for minimum wage.

    Anyway, ticket campouts are a rite of passage. By design, it allocates tickets to those who are most passionate about the game, the team, and NCSU. As it should be, in my opinion. To Jay Dawkins and all involved, good work. You’ve done your fellow classmates a tremendous favor.

  12. Pack84 02/08/2008 at 11:03 AM #

    Given that the year in my handle is the year I graduated from State, it’s obvious that I’ve been gone for a while – at least from living and working on campus. But the one name I continue to see over and over is this guy Stafford, and I freely admit that I don’t know much of anything about him, other than I continue to see his name mentioned in negative ways. Who is this guy and how does he have so much power? Does he report directly to the Chancellor? Of whom does he have animal sex pictures?

    I hate to see one guy just ruin so much of the experience for our students.

  13. highstick 02/08/2008 at 11:05 AM #

    You mean we actually have other idiots “at the top” like Fowler and Oblinger? No wonder everything is screwed up! Makes you wonder about who hired all of these people!

  14. highonlowe 02/08/2008 at 11:11 AM #

    I rigorously archived all my PINE email into yahoo, and I was somehow able to find these articles from the 2000 incident.
    WRAL’s report

    The Ticket Distribution Task Force’s recommendation to Marye Ann Fox. Yep, Stafford has been using a hammer to kill flies for quite a while now.

  15. branjawn 02/08/2008 at 11:12 AM #

    I’ll be as delicate as I can, but this idea of “to make people *actually* camp out to get tickets was unfair to students who did not” is pretty liberal in philosophy. In that, make the playing field even by rewarding those who “don’t” and punishing those that “do” so that everyone is treated “fairly”. It’s really not too surprising that this world view has taken over at a place of higher education.

    Pretty soon everyone will be getting A’s in classes because it isn’t fair that some kids are smarter than others.

  16. PacknSack 02/08/2008 at 11:15 AM #

    I think the Les Robinson Era essentially killed campouts. Why camp out to watch a bad team, when there were always tickets available?

    Is there any traction to the theory that campouts were snuffed to force people to pay Wolfpack Club dues to get tickets. Now, that used to infuriate me.

  17. old13 02/08/2008 at 11:17 AM #

    Between Fowler and Stafford, and Oblinger’s apparent unwillingness to upgrade organization and staff for a top athletics program at State, it’s a wonder we can be even competitive in basketball and football at all! Stafford seems to have a mission to sabatoge all things athletic at every opportunity. (I give absolutely no credit at all to any of the previous for getting Sidney and Tom to NCSU. In fact, I think that Sidney had a huge question mark on his back when he came, and has yet to prove that he is a top college coach. BUT – he does “get it,” which is most important, and seems to have a good grasp of X’s and O’s. I believe that the potential is there for good things in basketball no thanks to Fowler in particular!) It’s most frustrating for us alumni to witness such incompetence and/or disregard with respect to Wolfpack athletics!

  18. BillyVest 02/08/2008 at 11:36 AM #

    I’ll be as delicate as I can, but this idea of “to make people *actually* camp out to get tickets was unfair to students who did not” is pretty liberal in philosophy. In that, make the playing field even by rewarding those who “don’t” and punishing those that “do” so that everyone is treated “fairly”. It’s really not too surprising that this world view has taken over at a place of higher education.

    I somehow think discouraging camp outs has more to do with preventing bumpers being ripped off cars, out of control bonfires in inappropriate locations causing geniune fire hazards, and the potential of several thousand inebriated college students, in close quarters, to get a bit out of hand.

    Anyway, I agree with Stoner that part of the problem with campus life is how moribund Hillsborough street has become. It’s really kind of depressing going to Hillsborough street, since there’s so few shops open and even long time “landmarks” like Darryl’s and one of the pizza places (forget if it’s Brother’s or Two Guys) closed.

  19. Trip 02/08/2008 at 11:37 AM #

    “BTW, what was up with the lack of students at the Wake game? It was a pitiful showing in the student section.”

    Another thing that pisses me off about the ticketing system, somehow I managed to not be selected for either of the lotterys, and couldn’t manage to grab any on-demand tickets…. I turn on the TV thinking that the stands would be filled to capacity… Yeahhh, right. There must be a better way to allocate tickets.

  20. branjawn 02/08/2008 at 11:43 AM #

    BillyVest, if you read what Stafford said: “unfair to students who did not”, it is blatantly clear the intent of the proposed rule. It is to equally reward everyone regardless of merit. It is to make sure no one feels left out. It’s to protect everyone from the way things actually work in the real world. It’s to entitle everyone to “fairness”, even though it is hardly fair or just.

  21. BillyVest 02/08/2008 at 11:44 AM #

    First come first served, I think,is the best way to do it. Get rid of the internet ticketing for students. You want them, line up at Reynolds or wherever the box office is these days, to get them. The people, who really want to go to the game will take the extra time to get them in person. Anyone can put their name in the hat for a lottery thinking they won’t win and may find something else they want to do.

  22. backinpack 02/08/2008 at 11:53 AM #

    I think the Les Robinson Era essentially killed campouts. Why camp out to watch a bad team, when there were always tickets available?

    Simply untrue. Campouts were huge when HS was the coach and we didn’t completely suck. IIRC, I camped out 97-2000 (and maybe 2001 unless it was banned) and my college career began the same year HS was named head coach. I never saw what they were like under V, but they were rowdy and fun post-Les.

  23. choppack1 02/08/2008 at 11:53 AM #

    “IIRC, NO ACC school sells or serves alcohol at ANY revenue OR non-revenue team competiton, while some schools in other conferences do. ”

    Rabid – I don’t think that’s the case. I think they sale beer at FSU basketball games and beer at Miami football games. Now, none of those arenas are “on-campus.” It leads me to believe that they could seel beer at the RBC if they wanted to.

    “Another thing that pisses me off about the ticketing system, somehow I managed to not be selected for either of the lotterys, and couldn’t manage to grab any on-demand tickets.”

    And this is a case where it’s stupid to do things on-line. Tickets are obtained just in case someone wants to attend – but those tickets didn’t cost anything – not even time to get them. When you had to go to the ticket office, at least you had to make a trip out of your way to get it. Sure, you could change your mind, but it certainly took more effort to go to Reynold’s Coliseum than it does to log onto the internet and print up a ticket. Bottum line – if it takes no money and no effort to get the tickets, your more likely to take that opportunity for granted.

  24. johnboyNCSU 02/08/2008 at 11:54 AM #

    I can understand to a certain extent the issue with fairness. When all students are forking over $192/semester to the Athletics Department, there is certainly is room to complain when you don’t have access.

    But there is definitely a need to have priority seats for the first-come, first-serve mentality. The atmosphere suffers when the student getting baseline tickets had little effort invested in getting the tickets. But for the big games, first-come first-serve should be mandatory…

    However, I never understood why the Student Wolfpack Club got the best tickets just because they forked over slightly more (to the independent Wolfpack Club) than I did and because they could do their homework during other sporting events. Now they’ve given them an entire sideline… The same annoying wanna-be Dukie fans get sideline seats for every game and restrain their behavior out of fear of losing that privilege. How does that encourage an energetic crowd?

    When we scored seats a couple rows behind Gary Williams in Reynolds, we relentlessly hounded them all night. It’s not like I was going to see those kind of seats ever again, so we made damn sure he knew we were there. If you want to see a good student crowd again, get rid of the damn SWPC…

  25. Girlfriend in a Coma 02/08/2008 at 12:02 PM #

    The combined UNC-CH/UNLV campout in 1989 was the biggest I ever experienced or heard of. Many people camped out for multiple nights and did not get any tickets to either game because they ran out. Tents were jammed on every square foot of that dirt/mulch area across from Reynolds, running all the way up to the quad and down to the tri-towers tunnel area.

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