Stages of Wolfpack Grief – Where Are You?

With last night’s loss, it’s pretty clear that NC State will finish 4-12 in ACC play, with no post-season. We will finish last if Virginia wins one of its final four games.

Even so, I managed to watch last night’s game with a relaxed and calm demeanor. I don’t remember so much as a “damn it” coming from my mouth, or a scowl on my face. My 6-year old got pretty exasperated, but I assured her that everything was fine, and I was pretty used to it [losing] by now. This got knowing smiles from the other 2 people on my row.

It made me think about the “stages of grief” – I know almost nothing about psychology, but I do remember Lisa Simpson talking to Bart about it. I thought there were four, but turns out there are five. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. Thanks, Wikipedia!

There was lots of denial during the non-conference games. Sure, I could see that there were problems, but we worked through them to win the Old Spice Classic, and swept the key stretch of games (Davidson, Cincy, Seton Hall) to mostly make up for debacles against New Orleans and East Carolina.

Then, anger. It definitely flared up when we lost to ECU, but that stage didn’t really begin until the Clemson game. For me, it peaked right after the home loss to Georgia Tech, which I noted was completely unacceptable. Many of my fellow Wolfpackers were still in denial, but here’s what I said:

Forget this happy crap. We just LOST AT HOME to an 8-9 team. We committed 18 turnovers and let our opponent shoot 59 percent from the field. That’s inexcusable. Full rant will be posted later.

I’m sorry, but I’ve had it up to here with sucking or near-sucking in every revenue sport, almost every single damned year.

Time would prove me right, with the Bees sitting at 4-8 in ACC play, 11-15 overall.

Next came bargaining. I point to my “path to 8-8” post. It seemed logical on its face, and laid out an “acceptable” path to make everything OK. Maybe not what we’d hoped in the preseason, but things would be mostly back on track. Was I fooling myself? Damn right. I didn’t even entertain the possibility of what actually happened over the next 6 games.

Then came depression – second half of the Maryland game and the meltdown at Boston College. Excruciating games to watch. It wasn’t mathematically impossible to get back on my “path”, but I knew in my gut that it wasn’t going to happen. There was still some anger, but mostly I just hung my head. I wrote off the 2007-08 season, and subconsciously started laying the groundwork for Stage Five.

And there I was at the RBC last night – fully immersed in acceptance. Let us know how your process is going in the comments.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe

256 Responses to Stages of Wolfpack Grief – Where Are You?

  1. ktoh 02/28/2008 at 11:34 AM #

    Unlike most I have seen both Wagner as well as Fordham play under Whitt., he knows what he is doing his teams press ,play solid d,have pt guards who run an OFFENSE,have set out of bounds plays,only problem is Fordham with academics etc should have gone patriot league instead of A10 but all in all they are competitive there game in and game out the only drawback for him is most top d1 prospects want to leave the city.

  2. Rochester 02/28/2008 at 11:35 AM #

    I was more enthusiastic about Whitt before his Fordham team flopped this year. He’s got a senior-laden squad of quality players for the A-10 (and for us, probably). But they’ve regressed when I expected they would contend for the A-10 title. It’s unfair to say it, but if Lowe bombs out I don’t think Whitt’s anywhere near next in line. Of course, we might be in a better situation right now if we’d picked Whitt over Lowe two years ago.

    As for the magic 2009 recruiting class, with every brutal, pants-around-the-ankles loss, I think the odds of the home-run recruiting class get a little smaller.

  3. GoldenChain 02/28/2008 at 11:38 AM #

    “Lowe was angry, and he wasn’t in the mood to take the heat for his players this time.”

    Prime, I’m hearing ya but let me tell you the next natural step:
    players will come out (remember Capel?!) and start criticizing the coaches, then the entire thing will spiral off into a negative direction.

    I agree with whoever said that Sid basically admitted that he and his staff had done nothing wrong.
    Maybe Sid you should consider what you are asking verses what can be delivered.

  4. Ed89 02/28/2008 at 11:42 AM #

    ^^^As for the magic 2009 recruiting class, with every brutal, pants-around-the-ankles loss, I think the odds of the home-run recruiting class get a little smaller.

    Concur, but on the flip-side. 2009 could be the class that turns it AROUND, and some players thrive on that (see Beasley, Walker at Kansas State). And that’s probably what Sid is looking for…great players that have a HUGE desire to WIN…and turn a team around.

  5. BladenWolf 02/28/2008 at 11:45 AM #

    Acceptance. I rented a DVD and watched it last night instead of the game. When I saw the Sports page in the paper this morning I didn’t even grimace.

    Next year will be the test for Sid & Co. If no effort continues, we need to look for a change.

  6. b 02/28/2008 at 11:45 AM #

    I like to think that if the last twenty years or so has proven anything, it is that we as Wolfpack fans will never reach acceptance. I don’t confuse the amused disgust I feel with acceptance. That feeling began to really take hold in the BC game.

    Acceptance would mean we have no RBC, and we would have been tickled pink to get swept by our rivals every year and make the NCAA tournament for the first weekend. We weren’t, and we never will be. At least until all of us who remember when our program was relevant have gone on.

    Dr. Badgerpack, you beat me to the punchline. I was gonna comment if I played that drinking game I’d be in a pile on the floor before the first TV timeout.

  7. Par Shooter 02/28/2008 at 11:45 AM #

    There are plenty of guys at mid-majors or lesser teams in bcs conferences that would be acceptable candidates. Whitt doesn’t have a bad bio (I just read the entire thing on their official site) but I would contend that if his name was Dan Whitmore and he went to college at N. Texas St. then we would not give him a sniff. I don’t follow it closely so I don’t know what other big schools have had him on the interview list – maybe someone else does.

    I really don’t want to run down Whitt and it looks like he is having a pretty good career. My point is that a guy’s qualifications are infinately more important than his name or where he played. The fact is that in his 5th year at his current stop his team has an overall losing record and is tied for 11th in a 14 team league. That’s just not good enough for me no matter what his name is.

  8. Rochester 02/28/2008 at 11:48 AM #

    K-State will be an interesting study. Take Beasley out of the equation and what would they be doing? Fast forward to next year and you’ll find out. Those kids were also recruited by a coach who is no longer there. I wouldn’t be too sure that this isn’t an aberration for K-State this year, versus the start of a more long-term revitalization.

  9. 44legend 02/28/2008 at 11:52 AM #

    I agree with StateRed. The talent here is lacking and JJ is our most talented center prospect since Chris fugging Washburn. T. Smith seems ready to explode as well. The got damn team exploded when the bald budha left and these are results of a proven shoddy system.

    Sid’s proven he can coach in the little mini run late last year with the left over crap despite the constant dogging it from the so called stars. This year some major league wusses have been on the rag since they aren’t BMOC anymore.

    As far as the negativity here, it’s way over the top for what amounts to a Todd Fuller type team. The buttholes around here are pooping all over everything. Some of you need to take one for the team and go ahead and pop that cyanide pill or else STFU.

  10. cbseastrunk 02/28/2008 at 11:56 AM #

    Well I was at stage 5 a long time ago – approximately 15 years ago! I have been a State fan for about 15 years! We stink every year – sometimes not as much as others though. There have been some fun times – but we always end up disappointed. Good grief, how much can one school take? Break it down like this…You give that team to Roy or Coach K we have different results – PERIOD! Sidney can’t get it done – now it’s just a matter of how long it will take for everyone to see that. I’m just sayin…

  11. 44legend 02/28/2008 at 12:05 PM #

    You think Roy or K are going to come clamoring for this job? They are both in the conversation for the greatest college coach of ALL TIME. Nice analysis, try again.

  12. JimValvano 02/28/2008 at 12:14 PM #

    Where do I stand with the Wolfpack? Hmmmmmmm…good question. Considering our nickname came from our football team’s defense hunting people down like a pack of wolves…I’m gonna say I’m a little disappointed. We’re not exactly living up to our moniker. If the players on the court would show more effort, the losing would be easier to take.

    I will not be watching any more regular season basketball games this year (unless family or friends call and force me to watch the Duke game because we are givin’ them a game). lol
    So is the life of a State fan. Always holding on to hope. I’ll watch the ACC tournament…mostly because I’ll be there.

    Here’s the real deal. I’m not exactly High on Lowe anymore, but I sure as hell ain’t wishing for the days of Sendek…yet. I want Coach Lowe to stay for at least one more season to see if we progress.

    To some this may sound crazy, but take a step back. Last season we were 5-11 in the ACC and most of the people here felt that was either about right or that we had accomplished more than we should have. We lost a four year starter at point guard and whether people will admit it or not…another important ingredient…the fiery and inspirational Brian Neiman. We brought in a recruiting class this year which included: Hickson, Smith, Johnson, Gonzalez, Degand, and Thomas. Degand and Thomas are injured. Johnson doesn’t appear to be panning out. Gonzalez and Smith have showed tremendous improvement, and Hickson is being talked about as a definite first rounder and possible lottery pick in the NBA draft. I think the original hype outweighed the ability of our players. Yes, we’ve underachieved, but one year of underachieving doesn’t warrant firing a coach or giving up on your team. Look at how many times in Dean Smith’s career he had the most talented team in the country…how many NCAA titles did he win? He underachieved plenty. So, let’s not jump to conclusions on Lowe and his staff just yet. Maybe its an anomaly.

    Let’s look at the future…

    I’ve talked to an ACC coach (not a head coach) recently who hinted that he thought we’d have some defections at the end of the year. He talked like worst case scenario we’d lose 5-6 players (maybe that wouldn’t be so bad). That makes you wonder what he’s heard. We know Grant is gone…so that is one. Chad Williams, a walk-on that most of us have never heard of, is a senior as well…so that makes two. Those two guys are guaranteed to be leaving. Hickson is a definite possibility considering that if he’s gonna be a lottery pick he’s going to be guaranteed to make about 5 million over two years. I’ll predict us losing Hickson…so that’s three. I would say we need to look at the rest of our roster for pro possibilities but we’ll leave Damien Wilkins…I mean Brandon Costner for later. Let’s look next at players who are likely to defect due to not being D-1 material or lack of playing time. I hate to say it, but Marques Johnson…he left Tennessee for playing time and came to State where it looks like if he stays…he’ll be our 4th string point guard behind Gonzalez/Degand, and Mays. I say MJ leaves to play at a mid-major so that makes four players gone. I think Ferguson hangs around, Harris stays, Fells can’t really leave, Gonzalez, Smith, Horner, and McCauley should all be back. We also have a guy named Clayton Smith on the roster who must be a walk-on and of course Johnny Thomas, and our recruits of Mays and Williams. This brings me back to Damien Wilkins oops I mean Brandon Costner. I think he thinks he’s better than he is (right now, a la Wilkins) and he packs up, leaves, and becomes the player we all knew he could be, and in the end…just like Wilkins it will work out for the best for both parties.
    With all this being said…I like our future. We will have a likely opening day starting line-up that looks like this:

    PG-Gonzalez/Degand/Mays
    SG-Fells backed up by Ferguson/Thomas
    SF-Williams/Horner Thomas could be used here as well
    PF-Smith a rotation at PF would include Horner and Harris
    C-McCauley Smith & McCauley would rotate here with Horner & Harris as substitutes.

    Maybe we start two point guards and put Fells at small forward. Maybe Williams will suffice, or maybe Ferguson will start at the two with Fells again moving to small forward.

    Looking at our roster it looks to me like we get rid of some dead weight. My only question is with depth at the bigs lookin’ a little thin…can we get Bartoz back?

  13. BillyVest 02/28/2008 at 12:17 PM #

    I think Sid knows a lot about basketball and showed he can be a good coach, in game and getting a team ready to play.

    The million dollar question is why haven’t we done better this year and can Sid learn from whatever mistakes he has made. From all the post game comments players have said about not executing or not being in it mentally, I think Sid is trying to get them ready, but for whatever reason he’s not able to get them to do it come game time.

    As apathetic as I am right now, I am glad he came here, if for nothing else than to notch at least one win against Roy Williams and UNC, in the past 5 years.

  14. quad87 02/28/2008 at 12:20 PM #

    Must admit I find it surprising the number of alumni/fans who didn’t watch the game last night.

    The bigger question here is not what stage of grief we’re at w/ this season, but what stage of grief we’re at w/ Sidney Lowe. Sounds like there are folks are in all stages right now. As for me, I’m depressed.

  15. cbseastrunk 02/28/2008 at 12:32 PM #

    Nobody in their right mind would ever think the Roy or K would come to State. C’mon, that is not what I meant by that comment. I simply meant that a good coach makes a difference and a great coach can turn a program around.

  16. JimValvano 02/28/2008 at 12:34 PM #

    I think we should thank Coach Lowe for this season. Maybe it’ll help us get rid of Fowler.

  17. 66pack 02/28/2008 at 12:38 PM #

    Choppack was there enough heart last night? I became use to ncs bb during 60s 70s&80s so i lost hope after 2 yrs of les and have not seen anything since to bring hope for a return of ncs bb.

  18. old13 02/28/2008 at 12:50 PM #

    Acceptance I suppose. I look at it as “weave-and-heave” players with no experienced PG trying to transition into the offense we have craved for some time. With all due respects to Kay, Sid and Tom, I’m just totally exasperated with Wolfpack athletics – primarily the incompetence at the head of the department, and the lack of commitment (or follow-through on verbalized pseudo-commitments in that regard) from the chancellor and apparently the BOT. Maybe we should just leave D1 and find a good junior high league to play in.

  19. choppack1 02/28/2008 at 12:50 PM #

    “The million dollar question is why haven’t we done better this year and can Sid learn from whatever mistakes he has made. From all the post game comments players have said about not executing or not being in it mentally, I think Sid is trying to get them ready, but for whatever reason he’s not able to get them to do it come game time.”

    Well, first off, you have to admit that you’re making a mistake. Sid hasn’t made that admission yet. One question I would have asked if I was Tony Haynes or a reporter to Sid is: “What have you learned this year about the differences between the college game and the pro game?”

    Regarding in-game coaching ability…It’s probably the least valuable asset to have when it comes to college basketball. An excellent college coach needs to be a great salesman or a great teacher and a great motivator. In most games, you won’t be able to rely on your in-game adjustments or your ability to draw up that last play.

    I think that what we’ve seen this year is that the team isn’t doing little things well. I don’t really buy that this team stinks because of a lack of good PG play. Yes, we’re missing a good PG, but what are the odds of having a great PG AND a great big man. One thing that’s obvious to me – perhaps we went overboard on the PGs. I don’t know why we didn’t go for a good shooter/scorer combo guard who can create his own shot and has good quickness. We might have that next year.

    It’s easy to forget that we’ve lost 2 guys for the year who could have really helped us. One guy we don’t know about. We do know that Degand was doing a pretty good job.

    One thing is certain, the staff and players have not responded well to adversity. They have wilted badly down the stretch. Leaders aren’t really judged by how they do when things are going well, but how they handle things when they start to break bad.

  20. 44legend 02/28/2008 at 12:51 PM #

    Your insinuation was that we can get a Roy or K to come here if we fire Lowe and hire the right guy. Maybe so, but you do realize they are the best 2 in the country right now and if their career’s follow the current arc, they might be the best 2 of all time. No point in comparing Sid to them.

    Do I think he could have done better? Certainly. Biggest gripes I have are not signing Chris Warren (no one in the country including Andy Kennedy forsaw this from him) and not painstakingly managing fragile child-like egos of about 1/2 the team….WHICH K HAD PROBLEMS WITH LAST FREAKING YEAR. BOOM!

  21. haze 02/28/2008 at 12:56 PM #

    Just 2 quick comments on coaching searches…

    First, should we go here again soon, I hope that we are as lucky as we were in getting TOB for football. By lucky, I don’t mean that TOB is a god, I mean that he was an established D1 winner that was ready to move and happy to be in Raleigh. TOB was kind of the football equivalent of what Texas got in Rick Barnes. The skills AND timing were right. No matter your prominence, you just cannot plan that kind of fortune. It was not Neinas that made that happen, it was TOB wanting a change and making a call.

    Second, if we can’t have luck, may we at least have enough sense to recognize that we aren’t going to buy happiness. We are not a slam dunk for success. If you still think we are, I have to ask how you got onto this board. Thus, lucky match aside, the guys who already have it really good are not coming and we should expect to get our guy by doing the hard work of evaluating the fertile ground of mid-major HC’s. The fans need to grow up and accept this fact. The idea that we, the fans, are ready to win NOW does not translate to the rest of the world giving a hoot. Now, I’ll also add that a mid-major evaluation is work and it should be going on RIGHT NOW. That’s true regardless of what we think about Sid. This evaluation should ALWAYS be going on and should never be left for the last minute. By the time you are looking at an imminent hiring, there is just too much pressure and opportunity for outside factors (includes stupid fans) to stop a good marriage. Would Fowler be good at this pre-planning? Dicey to say the least but, there it is.

  22. 44legend 02/28/2008 at 1:05 PM #

    Good comments haze. If it happens it will be a mid major guy likely in his 30’s UNPROVEN AT THIS LEVEL. He will need, guess what??? 4 – 5 years.

    Why oh, why some think it’s productive to dump on a beloved HERO here is a mystery to me. He HAS to have his alotted time that everyone in the country thinks is appropriate. AT A BARE BONES MINIMUM it’s 3 years. 4 is the industry standard and 5 is being slightly generous.

  23. JT 02/28/2008 at 1:06 PM #

    Acceptance/apathy/worry. I’m getting tired of Sid laying it on the players whether they deserve it or not. I’m past this season and beginning to worry about Sid a bit. And I’m bewildered by just how bad the Pack is.

  24. packgrad93 02/28/2008 at 1:10 PM #

    Let’s change the subject, L. Brown is visiting NCSU this weekend. He’s ranked #17 in the ’09 class. Him & Wall would end any backcourt issues we have instantly.

  25. Anthony Grundy 02/28/2008 at 1:16 PM #

    btw – We shouldn’t jump to conclusions either way. Last year Sid could do no wrong. This year we are already talking about replacements. How about giving the guy another year or two. Really, we are no position to say wether he will or will not succeed. We will just have to wait and see. Besides’s haven’t other great coaches started off with a rocky season or two. Let’s give him some time…or at least 2009.

    yeah, it’s like groundhogs day, but “lets wait till next year”. I hate saying that.

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