Stages of Wolfpack Grief – Where Are You?

With last night’s loss, it’s pretty clear that NC State will finish 4-12 in ACC play, with no post-season. We will finish last if Virginia wins one of its final four games.

Even so, I managed to watch last night’s game with a relaxed and calm demeanor. I don’t remember so much as a “damn it” coming from my mouth, or a scowl on my face. My 6-year old got pretty exasperated, but I assured her that everything was fine, and I was pretty used to it [losing] by now. This got knowing smiles from the other 2 people on my row.

It made me think about the “stages of grief” – I know almost nothing about psychology, but I do remember Lisa Simpson talking to Bart about it. I thought there were four, but turns out there are five. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. Thanks, Wikipedia!

There was lots of denial during the non-conference games. Sure, I could see that there were problems, but we worked through them to win the Old Spice Classic, and swept the key stretch of games (Davidson, Cincy, Seton Hall) to mostly make up for debacles against New Orleans and East Carolina.

Then, anger. It definitely flared up when we lost to ECU, but that stage didn’t really begin until the Clemson game. For me, it peaked right after the home loss to Georgia Tech, which I noted was completely unacceptable. Many of my fellow Wolfpackers were still in denial, but here’s what I said:

Forget this happy crap. We just LOST AT HOME to an 8-9 team. We committed 18 turnovers and let our opponent shoot 59 percent from the field. That’s inexcusable. Full rant will be posted later.

I’m sorry, but I’ve had it up to here with sucking or near-sucking in every revenue sport, almost every single damned year.

Time would prove me right, with the Bees sitting at 4-8 in ACC play, 11-15 overall.

Next came bargaining. I point to my “path to 8-8” post. It seemed logical on its face, and laid out an “acceptable” path to make everything OK. Maybe not what we’d hoped in the preseason, but things would be mostly back on track. Was I fooling myself? Damn right. I didn’t even entertain the possibility of what actually happened over the next 6 games.

Then came depression – second half of the Maryland game and the meltdown at Boston College. Excruciating games to watch. It wasn’t mathematically impossible to get back on my “path”, but I knew in my gut that it wasn’t going to happen. There was still some anger, but mostly I just hung my head. I wrote off the 2007-08 season, and subconsciously started laying the groundwork for Stage Five.

And there I was at the RBC last night – fully immersed in acceptance. Let us know how your process is going in the comments.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe

256 Responses to Stages of Wolfpack Grief – Where Are You?

  1. choppack1 02/29/2008 at 1:42 PM #

    The “wait till 09” class probably sounds a lot like those Wolfpack Club meetings early in Les’ tenure. “If we can just get Stackhouse”…We came really close to getting Stackhouse, what would have happened if Les got him??

    BJD: We didn’t get Stackhouse pretty much because of Les. Suffice to say he was underwhelmed. Stackhouse, McInnis, and I believe Donald Williams had all agreed growing up that they wanted to go to State and win a national championship together. A semi-competent athletics regime would have had huge success at NC State in the 90s. Alas, it was not to be.

    If you can argue, “we’re just a few players” away from being a good team, I can see it. For example, Amato could have certainly said, “If I had a great QB in 2004, we would have been awesome” – and there’s some truth to it. However, good coaches maximize great talent when they have it and good coaches develop good talent when they don’t.

    Something to consider if you’re hinging your future on recruiting, in recent memory, I can think of 2 coaches who were what I’d consider great recruiters, but average X and O coaches: Skip Prosser and Paul Hewitt. However, in both of these cases, these guys won w/ their predecessor’s talent in the first year. They then w/ their own guys. No one ever questioned Wake or Tech’s effort or toughness.

    If you’re saying, “Just let Sid get his 09 class in here” – all you are basically saying you agree that Sid can’t motivate and develop the 6 guys he’s brought in and the 7 guys he inherited.

    And if you think Sidney will be a great coach, understand that you are not basing this on prior results, but on what you think will be the case – and there is no evidence to support your opinion.

  2. Noah 02/29/2008 at 1:57 PM #

    Choppack, you and I are on the same page, the same paragraph…hell, we’re reading the same line.

    (frightening as you may find that!)

  3. Par Shooter 02/29/2008 at 2:01 PM #

    Noah, I guess I’m crazy but I don’t think that is certain (2 more years). I’d say it’s probably 75+% likely but there are a number of factors that could influence an earlier deadline. If there are significant transfers after this season and/or next, if next season is as big of a debacle as this one and (especially) if Sid continues to be seen as not owning this mess then I can see him being shown the door next year barring a big haul coming in 09. Despite being a good player here I don’t get the feeling that Sid has nearly the goodwill built up amongst fans that even Les or MOC did. If things continue to crater it will be interesting to see how we react.

  4. choppack1 02/29/2008 at 2:13 PM #

    Noah – You usually tilt more negatively about things than I do, but we both know our fair share of 80s and beyond ACC history and NC State history.

    Aside from Coach K, I can’t think of a coach who initially did worse than his predecessor, but turned out to be a good coach. Simply put, we know what Sid is up against and the odds of him turning it around.

    So yeah, our fellow wolfpackers should be worried.

  5. Par Shooter 02/29/2008 at 2:13 PM #

    From the few folks I’ve talked to since Wed, I think Sid really hurt himself with his postgame comments. From the way we’ve played and the things we’ve seen over the course of this season I think there’s been a growing sense that Sid is in over his head. Coming out with some of his postgame comments after FSU really seems to have driven this point home to some. They really smacked of a guy who doesn’t know what else to do and perhaps a guy who is desperate. Folks like a coach who will fall on his sword in public even if the players really are the problem. It’s seen as the classy thing to do to protect college kids.

    Personally I don’t get too wound up about what a coach says or doesn’t say to the media. It’s about results. I will listen on the way home out of curiousity but rarely does a coach say something that makes a loss feel better or a win any worse. After hearing Chuck guarantee that “something like this” would never happen again following year 5 I needed no further proof that words mean little and actions lots.

    But no matter what I value, some folks really do put a lot of stock in what a guy tells a reporter after a game. And I’ll admit that Sid’s comments on Wed seemed borderline unprofessional for a college coach. While it was refreshing not to hear a drone spout 100% coachspeak, I think the reality is that there is a reason many coaches rely on coachspeak.

  6. Noah 02/29/2008 at 2:21 PM #

    “Aside from Coach K, I can’t think of a coach who initially did worse than his predecessor, but turned out to be a good coach.”

    Dean Smith.

    I was thinking Pitino maybe, but Sutton ended on a losing season and Pitinio was marginally better his first year.

    Gene Bartow at UCLA.

  7. BJD95 02/29/2008 at 2:27 PM #

    The music in Pulp Fiction and Natural Born Killers was fantastic, as well.

  8. Noah 02/29/2008 at 2:48 PM #

    Tarantino definitely comes from the Scorcese-school of soundtracks.

    I want to give credit where credit is due…and at lunch, I got to think that American Graffiti and Easy Rider were both influential on Scorcese in the soundtrack-vein…

  9. choppack1 02/29/2008 at 3:05 PM #

    Par Shooter – I’m willing to give Sid a pass on the clips after the FSU game – his Mom had gone into the hospital that day. I’m not saying that excuses it – but I won’t hold that against him. That said, he’s had plenty of chances to own up to this trainwreck of a season and acknowledge his accoutability in it.

    BJD95 – That’s interesting. I was always under the impression that Les did everything he could short of doing his homework. Let’s also admit that Stackhouse and McIness were probably the wrong kind of kids to get after what we’d gone through. Donald Williams – I don’t know how he got away. I’d heard that Rodney Monroe was his one of his favorite players of all time. Donald also struck me as a decent kid – something I can’t really say about McInness and Stackhouse.

    Noah – I don’t remember when Dean Smith started coaching. I wasn’t a glimmer in my Dad’s eye. I was 7 years old in Charlotte when the 49ers made their run to the Final 4 – that gives you an idea of my perspective. (Does Lee Rose still need a gig?)

  10. militarypack 02/29/2008 at 3:19 PM #

    As a career military officer who has NEVER spent a minute as a sports coach, I still think I can see similarities in leadership and motivation between the two careers.

    When SL says “we do everything we can to prepare them..”, I could say the same thing by giving my troops a weapon and tell them to kill the enemy. If I cannot convey to them from personal experience, from a manual, etc. how to kill and not be killed, or if I can’t get them to believe they are the best at what they do, I won’t have much of my unit left after the war. Does anyone really believe the team is properly prepared when you watch them on defense?

    Please don’t put SL and coachs K and Williams into the same paragraph. There is no comparison even when you draw parallels between motivating their players. K and W’s players respond after being called out by showing their coaches what kind of players they truly are. SL doesn’t seem to know how to motivate whether it’s public admonishment, tough love or any tool in a good leader’s bag of tricks. A good leader can read the situation and answer it in an appropriate manner. SL seems to have lost control over this team in the early going and no ideas how to get them back and quite frankly at this point it’s just too damn late. When you see a Duke or Carolina player come off the court and sit on the bench, there’s a coach giving them an earful of something whether it’s encouragement, or admonishment but someone is there. State’s players seem to come off and sulk.

    Don’t get me wrong, those players lack some of the basic fundamentals to good basketball but really who’s fault is that? Leadership, motivation, instruction is the responsibility of the coach. My guess is SL will point fingers at the players which they probably deserve in an effort to deflect attention away from the more serious cause of the downfall of this team: bad coaching. I think inside he’s realizing successful coaching takes a person with special qualities and full bag of tricks. Whether SL finds those qualities and fills that bag of tricks before the fans and university run out of patience or no longer can tolerate being the laughing stock of ACC basketball, only time will tell. I felt hiring SL was a gamble that was going to be a major win or major loss. I’ve never been a fan of bringing back the old fan-favorite players as a coach. Realizing that leadership isn’t a learned quality but one that is cultivated over a long period of time, I seriously doubt we’ll be able to last long enough to see SL’s real potential.

    Stand back and take a look at the big picture: this is the ACC! This is NC State! When you talk about us in the context of sports, you’re talking a consistently successful basketball program! What in SL’s resume even makes him qualified to coach in such a highly competitive and demanding program?

    I hope I’m proven wrong but if I had to bet my last dollar, I’ll bet we’ll be having similar conversations this time next year standing on the outside and looking in!

  11. BJD95 02/29/2008 at 3:20 PM #

    It wasn’t that Les didn’t recruit Stackhouse hard, it was that he came across as a disorganized, incompetent boob.

  12. packbackr04 02/29/2008 at 3:50 PM #

    which he was^

  13. packgrad93 02/29/2008 at 4:02 PM #

    SFN: If you don’t like the contents, then don’t read it. Or start your own blog.

  14. Noah 02/29/2008 at 4:07 PM #

    Buzz Peterson was actually the one doing the fullcourt press on Stackhouse. He was crushed when Stackhouse announced.

    Ultimately, Williams and Stackhouse didn’t want to have to be the savior of NCSU basketball. It’s something that makes me worry when I think about John Wall.

    I asked this elsewhere, why do State fans believe that three straight sub-par seasons will yield positive recruiting results?

  15. choppack1 02/29/2008 at 4:09 PM #

    BJD95- That seems so unlikely… Ok, it doesn’t. What’s scary though is that makes it seem like Sendek would have bagged him easily – because of Sendek was anything – it was organized and competent.

    Military Pack – You see some of the things that I do. There’s fundamentals in help defense that are constantly missed. Also, telling someone to do it doesn’t usually result in kids doing it right. You have to do it, do it again, do it again, then do it again. Once you do it right everytime – you get it. You probably believe something foolish like every battle is won before it’s fought – right?

    Packgrad93- So do I. But I guarantee you one thing – watching us play on national TV is doing much more damaging to recruiting than this blog is.

  16. BJD95 02/29/2008 at 4:13 PM #

    As I heard it (from a UNC team manager who had no reason to lie about it), Stackhouse was all set to sign with State. He had a sit down in Les’ office, and was completely unimpressed. Still, he didn’t reject State out of hand, but the seed of doubt grew and he ultimately went with UNC.

    I had also heard that he didn’t like the pressure of being the “savior” of NC State basketball.

  17. packgrad93 02/29/2008 at 4:14 PM #

    SFN: Now you’re just asking to get banned. Present your point of view in a mature manner, or take your act elsewhere.

  18. choppack1 02/29/2008 at 4:29 PM #

    Those stories of Stackhouse are similar to what I’ve heard.

    And Noah, I agree w/ you. Of course, somehow we pulled in a great class after 4 straight subpar seasons in Herb’s 5th year. Of course, he was never really on the hotseat until year 4. The couple years, we had some huge misses that could have been different w/ another coach or if Herb had better success earlier in Chris Paul, Eric Williams and Justin Gray.

  19. BJD95 02/29/2008 at 4:36 PM #

    ^ chop, make sure to check your e-mail.

  20. Noah 02/29/2008 at 4:42 PM #

    Didn’t the great class with Sendek happen because of our Addidas connection?

    Who was in that class…Hodge (addidas), Watkins (we had some “in” with his HS coach, dind’t we?), Collins (who everyone else had backed off of) and Josh Powell?

  21. b 02/29/2008 at 4:54 PM #

    We should all hope Wall is a new Chris Paul. I am from W-S and live in High Point, and around here he is loved like no other. He chose to stay around and go to Wake, not only due to Prosser, but because he loved his community and felt he could make the largest impact here by staying at home for school. He is still visible in the area during the off-season and his Hornets’ jersey is on about one back out of three, or so it seems.

    Gotta think Bronx Tale used music the best. Similar to Good Fellas, just a shorter time range.

    Full Metal Jacket was a great soundtrack.

  22. b 02/29/2008 at 4:57 PM #

    Oddly enough, Powell is the only one in the NBA. Or is it less odd since he was corrupted by Sendek the least?

  23. Noah 02/29/2008 at 5:07 PM #

    I don’t think anyone could reasonably expect Watkins or Collins to be NBA players. Watkins was a top-75 guy and Collins was in the top 150, I think?

    Hodge was one of those guys who was a great college player, highly deserving of his ranking, but whose game just doesn’t translate to the NBA.

    Considering how many guys jump to the NBA, these should be the most coveted players on the recruiting trail.

  24. McLovin 02/29/2008 at 5:57 PM #

    When my UNC, Duke, and Wake friends try to make fun of State it doesn’t even phase me. I just laugh. Now is one of the most enjoyable times I’ve had as a Pack fan. I know it is just sad… but I still love it. ACCEPTANCE baby.

  25. wolfonthehill 02/29/2008 at 6:57 PM #

    Sooooo – Section Six, as usual, has some good analysis of the ACC… and a pretty disturbing news snippet including Lowe quotes that indicate either dishonesty or cluelessness.

    http://sectionsix.blogspot.com/2008/02/we-have-bottom-to-ourselves.html

    I mean, I have nothing against the guy personally, and I truly wish he’d succeed… last year at this time, I was as excited as anyone. But this really is going the way of Doherty pretty damn fast.

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