Doing the Math (The Path to 8 ACC Wins)

Let the people rejoice – State beat the castrated turkeys once again, to get back to .500 in the ACC. That’s the good news. The bad news is that the second half of the conference schedule is even more difficult. NC State will likely only be favored in one game (home vs. FSU). But all is not lost – State may not be the favorite, but can legitimately expect to compete well in 5 other matchups. We break the games down into categories below, with percentage likelihood of victory in parentheses.

Home games against inferior opponents (1)

vs. Florida State (80%)

The Pack played really well (and the Noles really poorly) for 5 minutes at the end of the first half in Tallahassee. Thanks to a banked 3 from Fells and huge plays on both ends of the floor from Hickson in the last minute of play, that was enough. FSU is in the midst of watching another season go down the drain in ACC play, with the NIT looming on the horizon. This is a game that NC State must win, and should do so absent a severe mental letdown.

Road games against inferior opponents (3)

at Boston College (50%), at Virginia (50%), at Wake Forest (50%)

Getting 2 out of 3 here would be huge, and probably necessary. Let me clarify what I mean by inferior – on a neutral court, I would expect NC State to be favored against all 3. Of course, if we play poorly (like we did in the home matchup against Wake), all bets are off. But I like our roster better than each opponent’s, and there are no bad matchups for us (no great outside shooting or multiple, dynamic guards). If Fells can shut down or at least suppress Rice, Singletary, and Teague – then State is better at the other positions. I also expect momentum and motive to work in NC State’s favor – Boston College is in freefall, and Virginia is showing signs of weariness (due to their coach being a raving lunatic in the mold of his asshole mentor, Jim Calhoun). These two also have a somewhat lackluster home-court advantage. BC is worse than their record indicates, and UVA is better (3 of their ACC losses have come in overtime). Wake is more of a wild card, but if everything breaks right, NC State could enter the game at 7-8 and needing a win to punch its dance ticket. I fully expect Wake to be playing for nothing but pride. I also don’t think much of head coach Dino Gaudio.

Very tough matchups, but not hopeless (2)

at Maryland (25%), vs. Clemson (35%)

The upcoming titlt in College Park is just one of those games I have a feeling about. Maryland is notorious for playing to the level of their competition. They do have multiple, good PGs – but neither is an explosive scorer. They don’t shoot well from the outside. The Terp big men are talented – but they also give up alot of fouls. That’s the weak point we can exploit, as long as we aren’t dominated on the glass and don’t go crazy with turnovers. It will be a fun matchup, if for no other reason than Osby. Like Fletch, he’s 6’9″ with the afro. Clemson is a tough matchup for us, with good perimeter shooting, solid rebounding, and smothering defense. They made us look silly in Littlejohn. However, the Tiggers are a different team on the road, and have really struggled of late. The crowd will be up for this one, and I can’t write off a possible upset.

Divine intervention needed (2)

vs. UNC (2%), vs. Duke (1%)

These are nightmare matchups for the Pack, both offensively and defensively. Regardless of location, the two blues would beat the Pack 99 times out of 100. As Duke showed last week, it is capable of undoing 20 minutes of yeoman’s work by the Pack in about 3:20. I listed our odds at 2% for the UNC game, because there is a remote chance that Lawson won’t play, or will be severely limited.

Add up the percentages, and the median number of expected wins over the last 8 ACC games is 2.93. 7-9 is the most likely mathematical result, with 6 wins being slightly more likely than 8. I would be really surprised to see 5-11 or 9-7.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball

103 Responses to Doing the Math (The Path to 8 ACC Wins)

  1. wufpaxno1 02/07/2008 at 10:23 AM #

    Mr. O,

    You are so right. I stand corrected.

  2. lush 02/07/2008 at 10:37 AM #

    i dont know why i havent heard any “analyst” talk about what i thought was the key to the game.

    unc’s entire offense is based around getting up a quick shot. not a good shot but a quick shot. they want 100 possessions per game. that is why they run the fast break, so that their quick shot is an easy/open shot. they dont know what to do in the halfcourt besides take hideous, garbage, ugly, contested shots or watch hanjob and ellington go 1on1. no lawson means no fast break, and no victory. especially over a good team like duke.

    i like our chances v. unc way more than i do against duke.

  3. BJD95 02/07/2008 at 11:11 AM #

    Twice every year, I root for “massive earthquake” and I’m always disappointed. On the plus side, at least one of them DOES have to lose.

    I can’t actively cheer for either one of them, although I slightly prefer Carolina to win in basketball (especially since Roy started – I like him as a person and how he treats NC State as a true rival), and Duke in football (b/c they always suck and are no threat). usually, I just watch to see a good, well-played game. Didn’t get that last night, either.

    Beo – your post reminds me of the ONE time I cheered for Notre Dame in football (aside from when they play UNC). They needed to beat Colorado in their bowl to give Georgia Tech their rightful national title (Colorado already had one loss and tie – not counting the BS “5th down” game against Mizzou). Not only did ND lose, they lost on a BS holding call on Ismail’s late punt return for a TD. Thank God GT still ended up with a split title.

  4. wufpup76 02/07/2008 at 11:17 AM #

    a little off-topic, so my apologies …

    i was on the road yesterday and happened to catch a little bit of the mike tirico show on 620am … while i was listening they were interviewing none other than our favorite play-by-play man, mike patrick about the duke-chapel hill game

    let me preface this by saying that i USED to like mike patrick, i grew up in the ’80’s and he was the tv voice of the acc back then … now, however, he’s no more than a shill for the worldwide leader (espn) and it’s corporate objectives (i mean brainwashing tactics of people who can’t think for themselves)

    anyhoo, the crux of the conversation was about how everyone should love duke and chapel hill because “BOTH PROGRAMS DO IT THE RIGHT WAY AND THEY HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHIG WRONG. NEVER.”

    needless to say, i almost wrecked at this point … that is nothing more than SHEER BLISSFUL IGNORANCE … but, i think that sort of sentiment is widespread among the media … an overwhelming majority of them by into what chapel hill and duke are selling … chapel hill invented “class” and kerkooskie is a “shaper of men”

    … it must be nice to live in a perfect little world full of daisies where the “good guys” always win and they never lie, cheat, or steal … it must be nice to retire to your “white castle” of college atheltics at the end of the day

    no wonder there is so much bias for the blues … “NOT ONLY DO THEY MAKE US A TON OF MONEY, THEY’RE PERFECT PROGRAMS TO BOOT!!!!!! WINK-WINK, NOD-NOD” !!!!1111!

    unbelieveable … love on who makes you money, sell that they are “perfect” programs, hate on everyone else … espn SOP

    disgusting

    anyway, sorry for my little rant … just had to share that

    go pack

  5. RAWFS 02/07/2008 at 11:47 AM #

    If you ever see Mike Patrick in person, Wolfpup, remind him of that comment and then ask him why there’s no Dixie Classic any longer.

    I would LOVE to hear what he had to say about that.

  6. choppack1 02/07/2008 at 12:02 PM #

    RAWFS – I predict Mike Patrick would say that it’s because NC State was shaving points.

    I give K a little more credit for bringing in upstanding athletes than Dean did. Mind you, K brought in Sheldon (no means no), Maggette and Duhon (Momma’s got a new job in Durham!). But Dean has a fairly long list of shady guys he brought in or was willing to bring in as well. (The big difference is that no one has really taken a hard look at Dean’s recruiting tactics.) Part of it may have been related to Chapel Hill’s ability to pass anyone who entered the school for years and years. With my own 2 ears at He’s Not at Here, I heard Rick Fox say, “I haven’t been to class for weeks.” There’s been rumors of favorable treatments for athletes in classes for years. Dean didn’t mind recruiting questionable characters either – King Rice (with a pretty long rap sheet), Clifford Rozier, Rasheed Wallace, Stackhouse, and Cota come to mind. Kenny Williams was so sharp he didn’t even graduate from high school. Kevin Madden got into UNC-Ch w/a sub 700 SAT.

    The point of this isn’t to say, “Dean was a scumbag on par w/ Tarkanian or Eddie Sutton.” Rather, just that Dean wasn’t really that different than a Tom Osbourne, Jimmy Johnson, John Wooden (read about his bag man at UCLA) or even a Jimmy V. (For the record, I think he had a much firmer grasp on things outside the basketball court than V did.)

    I used to think K didn’t fall into that category, but his forays into the elite high school talent – who often didn’t have character to match has changed that opinion too.

  7. gcpack 02/07/2008 at 12:18 PM #

    BJD: I disagree that the second half of the schedule is more difficult than the first. First half of the season the first two games were away at UNC and probable 3rd place Clemson. Then playing at Duke. That is murder.

    Now we get the blue boys & Clemson at home, not that we are likely to see any difference in results with the two blue boy games, but Clemson has had 2 to 3 guys hurt off and on througout season and I think we take that game at RBC. By the way is Clemson at full strenght yet?

    I don’t disagree with the likely hood of ending up 8-8 but this half of schedule is more to our favor.

    We won’t surprise Duke cause we tipped our hand in the first half in Durham & Coach K (to his credit)respects every team they play. But the baby blues had a cakewalk with us and they won’t respect us. Our guards, especially Gonzalez, will have 2/3 of season of experience by the time the smurfs come to Raleigh. We will not be the same team that played in CH. As usual it will come down to whether we hit enough outside shots to keep the defenses honest.

    RAWFS: Bowles’ family have always been big UNC fans. In fact his dad, Skipper, who ran for governor has a bldg. named after him in CH. I wouldn’t expect him to avoid UNC games.

    BEOWOLF: The flops get me too from Duke but Hansbrough does it the most. Of the four charges he tried to draw against Duke I would say only one was hard enough to have any chance of knocking him down. I have no problem with him trying to draw the charges it’s just that he is so big and strong that everyone(meaning the refs) should know that it isn’t that easy to knock him down. ACC refs let him get away with murder on those plays. I mean how does a player like him score under the basket through two guys draped all over him and one holding his arm and then at the other end McClure knocks him down by brushing by him. Kudos to Hansbrough but Swofford’s got the court police buying into it.

  8. wufpup76 02/07/2008 at 12:25 PM #

    a bit more on-topic …

    a little surprised by this, but it seems we have a believer in the media at the moment … gary parrish of cbssports.com has us in his field … i’m not really surprised by that in and of itself, but he has us in solidly as a 10 seed … that is a very safe seed for the moment … i would figure if we were going to be in a field we would be on one of the “last at large teams selected” lines of #11 and #12

    even more surprising is that he has us in and maryland out at the moment … i will give maryland their due as they are playing good ball right now and have a win at chapel hill to boot …

    it would be a HUGE win saturday night if we could get it … 3rd and 4th place are still in play, not to mention that chapel hill even has two losses in second place now …

    a win saturday opens up a lot of possibilities, but more so really puts us in strong contention for a bid (in having road wins against fellow bubble teams seton hall, fsu, and maryland) … but all is not lost if we lose there either (let’s hope that doesn’t happen of course 🙂 ) one at a time, let’s see what happens …

    go pack!

  9. wufpup76 02/07/2008 at 12:27 PM #

    oops^ – here is the link if interested:

    http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10623770

  10. Rick 02/07/2008 at 2:07 PM #

    A quick question

    How can “psycho T”, the player known for his physical play, not get his second foul until there were only 40 seconds left in the game? How can anyone run into people so much and not get fouls called? IT is against the laws of physics.

  11. Ismael 02/07/2008 at 2:50 PM #

    Against UNC…we pulled a UNC when they played G’Town last year…we couldn’t hit the side of the barn, UNC didn’t play that great of defense and neither did we. The second half of that game it was 50-49. Against Duke, we outplayed the hell out of them in the first-half, led by 9 in Cameron, and essentially didn’t play D in the second half. Plus Duke hit three’s far above the percentage they shoot them (helps when you’re wide open). Why is everyone shitting his pants over these two over-rated teams…you guys sound pathetic.

    If we will stop playing down to our competition and play for 40 damn minutes, this will be a vastly different team.

  12. JeremyH 02/07/2008 at 2:51 PM #

    wufpup76: Parrish has a sack, he must have been inspired by our recent play. Maryland bubble and NC State at large? I guess we’ll find out this weekend, huh? The Committee has GOT to take our strength of schedule into account. Now, I have said it before and I will say it again, we MUST win Maryland(away) or Clemson(home). If we drop both it is over.

  13. wufpup76 02/07/2008 at 3:24 PM #

    ^i agree jeremy – maryland and clemson look right now to be strong contenders for 3rd place … a win against either or both would go a long way

    i really think getting clemson at home is a must, and hopefully we can take a few road games which carry a lot of weight … we also really need a split of upcoming away games at maryland and bc – a sweep would be just fantastic …

    i also agree w/ ismael that both duke and chapel hill are a bit overrated … we’ve seen what happens to chapel hill w/out lawson; even w/ him on the court, if ellington and/or green struggle from the outside then chapel hill struggles … they just don’t play enough high pressure defense to make up for a poor shooting night against a good team … as for duke, i think the game plan is simple in concept if not in execution: play solid, tough D, rebound the ball and don’t turn the ball over … that’s what pitt did to them and it resulted in a victory when duke’s perimeter shots stopped falling in the second half

    i really believe this nc state team can beat duke and/or chapel hill at home … yes, this same state team … i really do and i’m not on crack … i’m telling you, if this state team learns how to play D and rebound for an entire game they can be really tough to beat … if they play D like they did for the first 15 minutes of the va tech game over the majority of any game then we’ll have the opportunity to win a lot of games left on the schedule … the problem is actually doing it … javi has come a long way, and more guys know their respective roles now (like mccauley) … this is all w/out costner coming into any type of form … if he does, we’re all the stronger … we’ll see what happens 🙂

    gooo state!

  14. Ismael 02/07/2008 at 4:21 PM #

    kind of interesting article by Pomeroy

    February 4, 2008
    The Wacky Atlantic Coast
    Historic Parity in the ACC

    by Ken Pomeroy
    http://basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=131

    State beating VPI thru somewhat of a monkey-wrench into his theories but that’s the problem when statisticians begin to believe in their own inflated sense of self

  15. burnbarn 02/07/2008 at 6:38 PM #

    I have no issue with Bowles going to the games (he goes to almost all of them there)…. i just wish he would attend a few of our games and cheer mightily for us… even attend a few ECU games…show us he cares about us too.

    I like this team getting to 8-8. I think saturday will be a bellweather game. If we win, I think we can feel pretty good about getting 8-8 and maybe think 9 wins. I think this game is our most difficult remaining road game and by winning would make me feel good about our chances on any other remaining road game.
    If we lose, are goals will be attainable, but will leave no room for error and we will need some ‘upsets’.

  16. Primewolf 02/07/2008 at 6:44 PM #

    SFN, my math would be 0.75, 0.5, 0.6, 0.6, 0.3, 0.5, 0.2, 0.1, totaling 3.55. I’d say we win 7 or 8 games.

    IMO, we need to win 1, 2 of 3, and 1 of 2 to get to 8, with the UNC/Dook games providing the potential for pretty much guaranteed NCAA bid with 9th win.

  17. JeremyH 02/07/2008 at 6:51 PM #

    Ismael: I read that article at like 2am last night, didn’t even realize who the author was. Pomroy is right on point though. It’s on par with the insightful analysis that occurs on this site. I wish this style of analysis permeates out to the talking heads, Gottlieb (who even the tarheels fans hate, accidentally reaing a UNC blog), Andy Katz, Mike Patrick, etc. The ACC doesn’t give half the respect it deserves, top to bottom, and that would be accounted for as a weighted factor. As an aside, let’s not knock Len Elmore, I think he is unbiased.

  18. JeremyH 02/07/2008 at 6:52 PM #

    “reading” not “reaing”, “should” not “would”.

  19. RabidWolf 02/07/2008 at 7:35 PM #

    Granted, Lawson is much quicker than anybody else’s PG (nationally), but one good hard cut, and you run the risk of re-injuring a high ankle sprain (trust me I know). If someone crosses him up, that thought MIGHT (BIG MIGHT) creep into his mind. I would have to say we end up at 9-7.

  20. RabidWolf 02/07/2008 at 7:41 PM #

    ClemPsun is up on UVa 36-22 3 min left in 1st.

  21. JeremyH 02/07/2008 at 8:10 PM #

    Virginia is just get demoralized tonight on their home court….

  22. RabidWolf 02/07/2008 at 8:30 PM #

    not demoralized—-destroyed

  23. JeremyH 02/07/2008 at 8:36 PM #

    yikes..we may have our Oregon State now.

  24. Trip 02/07/2008 at 8:56 PM #

    Theres a reason for that actually on clemson’s side…

    K Rivers 2pt 12/19 3 pt 8/11

    Wow.

  25. wufpup76 02/07/2008 at 10:06 PM #

    tough game for uva … but at least they’re definitely better than oregon st 🙂

    i’ll keep on bringing up that uva won @ arizona while arizona was FULL strength … that is a HUGE win for our conference … uva 11-10 and 1-7 (i think) but won @ arizona … amazing … gooooo ACC!

    (but mostly go pack!)

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