Denial Runs Deep at NC State

I didn’t expect to get even madder when I read the sports page this morning. But then I read these quotes from Ben McCauley:

“It may seem like it but we’re still trying to [win],” junior forward Ben McCauley said. “We’re definitely trying to.

“I don’t think we’ve forgotten how to win [but] I think we’re kind of one step behind. We’re almost there.”

Almost there? Are you fucking kidding me? The last place team, the team who was winless against non-Boston College ACC foes, was beating you by 27 early in the second half. Maybe there’s a new meaning for “almost” that I just haven’t heard of yet.

How do we get out of this mess? Pretty simple, says Big Ben:

“We have to win these last three games and do very well in the ACC Tournament,” McCauley said. “If not win it, get to the finals and hope for the best. But we can’t think about the ACC Tournament right now. We got to win these last three games.”

How about a manageable goal – like showing up ready and fucking willing to play hard for a full 40 minutes. Just once. Then talk about how motivated everyone will be in the offseason to work hard, get in shape, and make sure they never have to suffer such humiliation ever again. Forget the NCAAT, NC State is on the outside of the NIT bubble right now. There’s nobody on the NCAAT selection committee even thinking about NC State.

This team and this coach continue to act like there are no major, systemic problems with the lousy product they are putting on the court. Like there is some magic switch that will flip, and NC State will get “hot” just like every opponent magically seems to do against NC State.

Here’s a hint – they are outworking you. It started with offseason workouts and fall practice, and continued through yesterday’s shoot-around. From the game recap thread, here’s what SFN commenter WolftownVA81 saw yesterday:

Being at the game today, I’ll offer my few observations. We got there when the doors openned 1-1/2 hours before game time so we got to see the shoot arounds, warmups and stretches. We had good seats on row A at the 300 level just behind the NCSU basket so we had a good view.

1. Our guys were not taking the shoot around serious. They were laughing and having a good time while most of their shots bricked.

2. The UVA players were all business and were making most of their shots. At one point my wife commented UVA had made 10 or 12 in a row from the 3 pt. line and we’re going get killed today.

3. When stretch time came, it was more go through the motions. We have players that can’t or won’t touch their toes.

The first step to recovery is recognizing that you have a problem. I see no evidence that anyone associated with the basketball program really gets that. Like I said a few days ago, maybe losing out and having no post-season will finally hammer the message home.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball Quotes of Note

243 Responses to Denial Runs Deep at NC State

  1. coach13 02/25/2008 at 2:18 PM #

    Classifieds

    NCAA DI Basketball Coach: university seeking head basketball coach in toughest Division I basketball conference. Bonus: Top 2 rivals National powerhouses, within 1 hour drive, must be able to compete regardless of vast recruiting disparity to keep head off chopping block. Contact Lee Fowler: 515-PACK.

  2. wbnation 02/25/2008 at 2:21 PM #

    So basically what everyone is harping on is fundamentals (boxing out, rebounding, playing defense). Well again I go back to talent. You think you are smarter than Lowe on what his team is lacking. Is that truly what a lot of you believe? You don’t think he sees it? How do you know they don’t spend 90% of their practice on boxing out? Cause it doesn’t show in the game? Maybe they do practice it ad-nauseum they just suck at it. Hell State teams have consistently sucked at it for more than a decade now. Its obviously not the system (we now have seen two different ones), and yet we still suck at it. So I put it on the players. They aren’t that good. They have proven to be unteachable (mostly the last regimes players) other than those that have been brought in by this coach. Name the 2 most consistent players not counting Grant(who is a senior) who have either proven their worth or at least grown and gotten better. JJ and Javi are my choices, and both are Sid recruits.

    Maybe it has more to do with the fact that the last regime was so hell bent on basketball being played through a system and that practice was filled with X’s and O’s that these players just haven’t grasped a new system which takes into account athletecism which most of these players lack. Its trying to put a square peg in a round hole and until these players either get it or are purged from the team, nothing is going to change. Most on here wanted wholesale changes from the last regime, and for some reason thought it would be a smooth and easy transition. Well it aint’t. And to start from scratch and build from the bottom up is going to take just that…reaching the bottom. Until these players get it through their thick heads, and until Sid can get in his guys with his philososphy then all of this is just people having unrealistic expectations of the situation we started with.

  3. Sweet jumper 02/25/2008 at 2:23 PM #

    packgrad2000–I agree about the boxing out and I have said the same about boxing out, defense, and fundamentals many times on this site. We have not boxed out for at least 12 years. Maybe it is now ingrained in our system. In high school, the coach yanked anyone who missed a box out, who did not play tough defense, and who did not dive on the floor for loose balls. There was no discrimination. The star and the last player on the bench were held to the same expectations. The team does not learn the lesson when certain players are allowed to get away with shortcomings on a consistent basis.

  4. boonami 02/25/2008 at 2:26 PM #

    i agree it’s hard to make chicken salad out of chicken shit, but damn, a D1 coach at a big time program has to be able to coach rebounding and effort; no matter who the players are. Lowe needs to be a hard ass, not their friend and realize it’s not the NBA and that coaching style won’t float in the NCAA.

  5. coach13 02/25/2008 at 2:27 PM #

    Regardless, Lowe has a non-self induced ceiling on how well he can do. So did Herb. So will the next mediocre coach. We are competing for 3rd place like every other ACC school. Yes there have been anomalies, (of which we have not been one since 83).

  6. coach13 02/25/2008 at 2:28 PM #

    We are not a big time program.

  7. wbnation 02/25/2008 at 2:28 PM #

    I was not trying to remark on the merits of the last regime, just that with a different one in place, there are learning curves and disappointments that come with it. And if you didn’t expect it then you need get your head out of the sand. You can’t have a divorce and a new Dad and think everything is going to run smoothly and without some hard knocks. Get us to it. Its reality and sometimes that sucks. Hopefully like I said we will get through this transition and be a better basketball program because of it. But be careful about blaming the new dad, he didn’t cause the divorce and some of those problems may still exist within the family.

  8. PackMan97 02/25/2008 at 2:30 PM #

    coach13,

    that’s just a ridiculous assertion. Duke and Carolina were not always the top dogs. There is no reason K and Roy can’t be challenged. None at all. Granted, it’s going to take a special coach to get us there, but we’ve been there before and we will be there again (hopefully in my lifetime).

  9. coach13 02/25/2008 at 2:36 PM #

    No, no, no! We were an anomaly. 1983 was not even that great of a year. We just got hot at the right time. I am not saying we should not strive to compete with UNC and DUKE. I am just saying we have made no steps to do so, i.e. the Lowe tenure.

    Assertions? Go to te recruiting sites! it’s there. DUKE and UNC are not recruiting. They are picking.

  10. nycfan 02/25/2008 at 2:37 PM #

    travel: FTR, Dook was 2-14 in the Coach K-less year (1994-95), coming off a national title game loss, but with a big dip in talent. The next season, the dookies were 8-8 in the ACC, squeaked into the NCAA Tournament and got their doors blown off by Eastern Michigan in the first round. It was the next year, ’96-97, that Dook truly recovered, and by some strange coincidence had just landed a freshman class of Chris Carawell, Mike Chappell, Nate James & transfer Roshown McCleod (followed in ’98 with Shane Battier, Elton Brand, Chris Burgess & Will Avery). Recruiting had everything to do with Dook’s resurgence after a 2-year lull.

    Anyway, I think that State has to strongly consider shaking up Lowe’s staff of assistants. He seems to need at least one top assistant with D-1 experience with a top notch winning program — Michigan State or UConn or a team like that. Take their 2nd assistant and make him Lowe’s top guy, maybe. He really doesn’t have anyone to turn to on his staff with meaningful experience with how to run an elite college team.

  11. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/25/2008 at 2:39 PM #

    Unless someone is demonstrating very high levels of success I think top level university administrators should move along every 5-8 years. It is to easy for them to get content and lazy when working under very low standards of accountability.

  12. coach13 02/25/2008 at 2:40 PM #

    Did anyone else think Farnold Degand sucked besides me before he got hurt?

  13. choppack1 02/25/2008 at 2:42 PM #

    wbnation – That’s a horrid analogy. Here’s the analogy – for 10 years, a particular leader led out division. He struggled early, then had some mixed results. He took another job when another employer was interested.

    After being turned down by several successful leaders and one not-so-successful (Steve Lavin) for this post, the CEO decides to hire a guy w/ similar, but very different experience. This candidate never had the experience of the other types of leaders.

    Year 1, some up and downs, but we did better than a lot of folks expected, but still worse than the previous year.

    Year 2, we’re losing money, hand over fist, the group looks mismanaged. The employees who returned are hungover, late and in general, morale is low.

    I agree – this is a tough decision. If you wait around and you’re very wrong, all you do is cause pain for a year. If you wait around and your hire is OK, you get this guy for another year.

    In general, our a HC should get 3-5 years. However, when a coach is proven incompetent, you need to fire him ASAP.

    Before this season began, I didn’t expect that to be an issue. Midway through the season, I was convinced that even though we were struggling, we were ulimately headed the right direction. Now the wheels are falling off like I haven’t seen for a team since our football team last year.

  14. coach13 02/25/2008 at 2:49 PM #

    I agree. This isn’t your run of the meal ugly. I have not seen anything as ugly as this season in a while.

    I would love to see someone check the stats, and see how many team or individual records have been set against NCSU this season. Some team is always breaking a losing streak, or some player is having a season or career high,i.e. ECU gets first ACC win. We are the butt of everyone’s joke.

  15. Rochester 02/25/2008 at 2:52 PM #

    If people are willing to give up on ever competing with UNC and Duke maybe we should move back to the Southern Conference.

    I still think we can get to a point where we can split home and home with those guys. We need to play fundamental ball. And I (respectfully) disagree that it takes talent to box out. Fundamentals provide the basis for a successful team. Top level talent plus fundamentals give you a chance to cut down the nets. Middle of the road talent and fundamentals should get you to 8-8 or 9-7. Middle of the road talent and no fundamentals give you a 4-9 (going on 4-12) record.

  16. coach13 02/25/2008 at 2:53 PM #

    I think that is why this blog site is so fired up. We don’t just lose or have a bad season, that is one thing. But damn! This is ugly. Who has ever played so ugly? This team plays so ugly it would make an onion cry (love that commercial).

  17. RickJ 02/25/2008 at 2:58 PM #

    “Did anyone else think Farnold Degand sucked besides me before he got hurt?”

    I didn’t think he was great but he was far better than the 2 we have playing. He was much quicker, a much better defender, a better shooter and better at penetrating defenses. I have no idea how he would be playing now or how much different our record would be. Clearly, we have tons of problems that don’t have anything to do with DeGand.

    I would put this in the same category as playing the toughest in-league schedule. Not the real problem but it certainly has exacerbated the results.

  18. whitefang 02/25/2008 at 3:00 PM #

    I think for sure Lowe will get another year whether he should or not.
    But those who now are questioning whether he should get that year (or more) are not doing so based on wins vs. losses. Its just that many of us don’t see the effort, desire, and ultimately a plan that makes us believe that this program will be headed in the right direction in a year or 2 or 3 or 4 or ever.
    I don’t know the man although I appreciate his love for State and his exceptional effort and ability as a former player. I don’t care if he is black, white, or green either. i don’t care that his NBA teams had poor records. I just want to see evidence of a plan and an ability to execute said plan to take us out of this hole sometime in the future.
    I think that is why people are questioning the interviews and statements made by the coach and the players. They are not projecting some major change that needs to be made both this year or in the future.
    To many of us its like a GM exec getting up an saying, “We are gonna be OK. We’re real close. We just got to do a better job of pushing a couple more Impala’s off the lots.” What would that do to their already low stock price?
    Maybe none of this mess is Lowe’s fault, but it is damn sure his responsibility.

  19. Wait_Til_This_Year 02/25/2008 at 3:04 PM #

    I think this year has brought some off-season conditioning problems to light. Last year the lack of conditioning was masked by two factors:

    1. We were 6 deep (5 when Atsur was out) and so lack of depth was given as a reason for the team being gassed.

    2. After playing 35+ a game for most of a season, the team got into shape on the fly, but it probably cost us a few losses.

    This year, it’s more obvious, and it’s not really possible to fix it mid-season when the games are just a few days apart. If we don’t see a noticeable difference next year, I’ll be surprised and disappointed.

  20. coach13 02/25/2008 at 3:05 PM #

    Degand a better shooter? He never shot! What games were you watching? We will not have a point guard next year either, with exception of the third,4th, 5th stringers we are playing this year.

  21. coach13 02/25/2008 at 3:07 PM #

    Really…somebody…do we have to lose soooooo ugly?

  22. coach13 02/25/2008 at 3:08 PM #

    And Dennis Horner? I’m 36 and 40 lbs overweight, but I think I could contribute as much as this guy. We should revoke 1/2 our scholarships and start over.

  23. coach13 02/25/2008 at 3:10 PM #

    We could lose less uglier with walk-ons.

  24. coach13 02/25/2008 at 3:14 PM #

    I remember the Les Robinson days when walk-ons quit the team!

  25. wufpup76 02/25/2008 at 3:15 PM #

    ^i think that pretty much says it, whitefang …

    bring back mary anne fox 🙂 … she was aggressive, in your face, and – gasp – wanted to win/compete in athletics

    what did she get for it? … she got censured by the unc system professors and such

    MAF wasn’t perfect, but if the unc system folks in charge of our university are completely apathetic towards athletics regardless of how much money alumni and fans pour in due specifically to athletics then we’ll be commuter school and all that money will go to tenured professors

    i know this type of athletics vs. academics struggle happens at duke as well, but their bball program is first rate … i’m sure there is struggle at chapel hill, but chapel hill has been adopted as the “face” of the unc system, the state university is second rate and that includes athletics programs

    i know i’m taking some broad strokes but it’s just so sad

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