Denial Runs Deep at NC State

I didn’t expect to get even madder when I read the sports page this morning. But then I read these quotes from Ben McCauley:

“It may seem like it but we’re still trying to [win],” junior forward Ben McCauley said. “We’re definitely trying to.

“I don’t think we’ve forgotten how to win [but] I think we’re kind of one step behind. We’re almost there.”

Almost there? Are you fucking kidding me? The last place team, the team who was winless against non-Boston College ACC foes, was beating you by 27 early in the second half. Maybe there’s a new meaning for “almost” that I just haven’t heard of yet.

How do we get out of this mess? Pretty simple, says Big Ben:

“We have to win these last three games and do very well in the ACC Tournament,” McCauley said. “If not win it, get to the finals and hope for the best. But we can’t think about the ACC Tournament right now. We got to win these last three games.”

How about a manageable goal – like showing up ready and fucking willing to play hard for a full 40 minutes. Just once. Then talk about how motivated everyone will be in the offseason to work hard, get in shape, and make sure they never have to suffer such humiliation ever again. Forget the NCAAT, NC State is on the outside of the NIT bubble right now. There’s nobody on the NCAAT selection committee even thinking about NC State.

This team and this coach continue to act like there are no major, systemic problems with the lousy product they are putting on the court. Like there is some magic switch that will flip, and NC State will get “hot” just like every opponent magically seems to do against NC State.

Here’s a hint – they are outworking you. It started with offseason workouts and fall practice, and continued through yesterday’s shoot-around. From the game recap thread, here’s what SFN commenter WolftownVA81 saw yesterday:

Being at the game today, I’ll offer my few observations. We got there when the doors openned 1-1/2 hours before game time so we got to see the shoot arounds, warmups and stretches. We had good seats on row A at the 300 level just behind the NCSU basket so we had a good view.

1. Our guys were not taking the shoot around serious. They were laughing and having a good time while most of their shots bricked.

2. The UVA players were all business and were making most of their shots. At one point my wife commented UVA had made 10 or 12 in a row from the 3 pt. line and we’re going get killed today.

3. When stretch time came, it was more go through the motions. We have players that can’t or won’t touch their toes.

The first step to recovery is recognizing that you have a problem. I see no evidence that anyone associated with the basketball program really gets that. Like I said a few days ago, maybe losing out and having no post-season will finally hammer the message home.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball Quotes of Note

243 Responses to Denial Runs Deep at NC State

  1. Greywolf 02/25/2008 at 12:41 PM #

    Why are we even discussing this team? Acting casual and being nonchallant is only a mechnism to deal with the awful truth of a disasterous season. Nothing the players say should be taken seriously or used as something that means something. Sids responsible but the assistants are the ones doing the actual coaching. Something is amiss. We can only give it time. Either it will or it won’t get sorted out. We didn’t see this last year but if we see it next year, we are in need of a change.

    http://nhluploads.invisionzone.com/hurrican/av-815.jpg

  2. redfred2 02/25/2008 at 12:45 PM #

    RAWFS and others, if you’re looking in, thanks for the compliments back on the other thread. Feel free to copy my post to your site, I would myself, but I don’t have any time right now.

  3. WolftownVA81 02/25/2008 at 12:48 PM #

    One tidbit I forgot to add to my observations yesterday. During the shoot around several players had to take a time out and get some rest on the 1st row of seats opposite the UVA bench. It started with one or two then two more joined them. I thought that was really odd. Perhaps our coaches should be out on the floor checking out what goes on. During the stretches one of the coaching staff was out on the floor – he appeared to be the conditioning guy.

  4. Mr O 02/25/2008 at 12:49 PM #

    Basketball ACC record under Lee Fower:
    5-11(no NIT)
    9-7 (NCAA round of 32) – Julius Hodge
    9-7 (NCAA round of 64) – Julius Hodge
    11-5 (NCAA round of 32 – Julius Hodge
    7-9 (NCAA round of 16) – Julius Hodge
    10-6 (NCAA round of 32)
    5-11 (NIT
    4-9(no NIT likely)

    Football record under Lee Fowler:
    8-4 (Bowl game) – Philip Rivers
    7-5 (Bowl game – Philip Rivers
    11-3 (Bowl game) – Philip Rivers
    8-5(Bowl game) – Philip Rivers
    5-6 (no bowl)
    7-5 (bowl game)
    3-9 (no bowl game)
    5-7 (no bowl game)

  5. coach13 02/25/2008 at 12:50 PM #

    Sidney did not inherit a bottom of the barrel program. While Herb did not have a clue about how to win close games and big rivalry games, he had us winning enough games to make the big tournament. We did not reach a very high point with Herb and now we are headed backwards really fast with Lowe. Does anyone go to recruiting sites? UNC has the pick of the litter in basketball recruiting. How can we hope to ever compete with that? I hate being a Wolfpack fan. I am actually trying to talk my 8 year old son out of being one too.

    P.S.
    Lee Fowler Sucks!

  6. RBCRowdy 02/25/2008 at 12:50 PM #

    We are two players away from being 100% irrelevant in the last 20 years

  7. Mr O 02/25/2008 at 12:51 PM #

    Like pre-season predictions for football and basketball next season:

    Atlantic Division(likely 5th or 6th):
    Clemson
    Wake/FSU/Maryland
    BC/NC State

    Basketball:
    Everyone else
    11th NC State
    12th UVA(loses S. Singletary

    It isn’t likely to get better any time soon.

  8. coach13 02/25/2008 at 12:56 PM #

    Look for Tom to redshirt a bunch of his recruits, thus making next year a sacrificial one. What’s one more year of irrelevance?

  9. WolftownVA81 02/25/2008 at 12:56 PM #

    Stoner: “If they are slacking off now, I don’t know why. It didn’t seem to be the case last year.”

    That is the big mystery that has everyone baffled. I’m tired of watching poorly played basketball. I’m ready for baseball now. I only make the minimum contribution to the Wolfpack Club (just rejoined last year.) Suffice it to say, I won’t be upping the ante until I see some improvement across the board.

  10. ktoh 02/25/2008 at 12:57 PM #

    perhaps he will schedule New Jersey Tech next year he made NCCU and Presbyterians years this year a disgrace to play in this league and have such a weak non league schedule is a disgrace ……don’t bring up villanova we lost that game if not for the ref ………..please no more

  11. wbnation 02/25/2008 at 12:57 PM #

    Look we suck. Its not disconnect, its not dillusional. We can see that this team sucks,and so can the players. What are they going to say. You all want them to apologize for being shitty players. Well that ain’t going to happen. And they definetly I hope aren’t going to start throwing one another under the bus.

    Look we have a 3rd string point guard that was going to see limited minutes this year playing most minutes. We have a freshman center who is trying to learn the game from the defensive end of the floor. Now throw in Costner (injury must have been worse than thought,cause he is a shell of himself this year) McCauley and Fells who would both be 6th men on any other team and you are looking at a disasterous season waiting to happen.

    This team has glaring holes that even the novice basketball fan can see. We are a sluggishly slow team on both ends of the floor. This can also mask itself as looking lackadaisical. You can believe if we can see these glaring holes and our opponents can see these holes, Lowe and Company can see them as well.

    Hell I can see the holes in Duke and so can its opponents. In some ways they have some of the same problems we have. They are slow in the guard situation which hurts them on the defensive end. They have to settle for jump shots and have to shoot at a high percentage to win. I know that, and so does coach K, yet in just this week two mediocre teams Wake and Miami both won because of guard penetration and keeping Duke to a manageable shooting percentage. Does K suck as a coach, cause he doesn’t make the proper adjustments? No. The problem is there is nothing to adjust too. To adjust you have to have something to adjust too, and just like Sidney there isn’t anything else. Fortunatley for K he suits up around 5 McDonalds All-Americans and that in itself will get you enough wins and make up for some some of your glaring holes. Sidney unfortunatley doesn’t have that luxury.

    Everyone on here wants to compete with Duke, and the Holes every year and we want to do that as soon as possible, unfortanetly we need the horses to get that done. We don’t have them. I hope Sid can bring them in. Right now I am afraid that when we brought him in, it was already to a sinking ship with bad management problems. You ever notice that when a coach comes in and does a superb job, he always talks about how it was just the right place and right time. Mostley they talk about it being the right time. Most will talk about how everything was in place before they got there, and the transition was smooth and how they got in there early and hit the road running. All that they had to do was coach. Well this analogy doesn’t seem to fit what happened to Sid. First, he was brought in late as an after thought(while most on here and in the administration were thankful to have a coach and it being someone from the family)he is just never going to shake loose the nay sayers early on. Too many people are ready to abandon ship early on in his tenure for this reason. This is not going to change. Secondly, he had to start so late with recruiting and trying to fill major holes left by the previous regime. Now the cupboard wasn’t bare, but with such a late recruiting start we had to fill the bare parts with less than ACC talent. I am afraid that the timing is just off with this hire, I like Sid and will give him his 4 to 5 years to turn it around. I just think that if this season is any example, then I truly feel sorry for Sid. Our administration put him in an unattainable situation, and if these next 2-3 years are anything like this one then it should be at their feet that the blame should lie. Go Pack……. I just don’t have the strength.

  12. Mr O 02/25/2008 at 12:58 PM #

    NC State fans by the numbers:

    1. WPC 5th in overall membership
    2. top 15 in capital funds raised the last 5 years
    3. top 15 in annual donations
    4. top 20 in basketball attendence
    5. Football season ticket sales at 99.9% capacity since 2000

    What more can we do?

  13. choppack1 02/25/2008 at 1:05 PM #

    “We didn’t see this last year but if we see it next year, we are in need of a change.”

    Actually, we did see this last year – you just forgot about it. We lost 7 of our 11 games in the ACC by more than 15 points. Our average margin of defeat was more than 15 points. Remember the pisspour effort vs. Miami when a win could have changed our season?

    People think that last was great. It wasn’t. We had a great game vs. Michigan. We had 2 great games against UNC, we played a great ACC tourney and swept VaTech and Wake. We had a good NIT run. However, for many of the games, I was disappointed in our lack of effort.

    We actually have made some improvement this year – but in these last 3 games, we’ve taken a momentous step back.

    ParShooter – Thanks for the clarification. Those stories are definitely making the rounds.

  14. ktoh 02/25/2008 at 1:10 PM #

    oh poor poor sid? if you go by wbnations logic lets lock him up for 20 years ……..1st year was a drag yes,we could not recruit understood………….but he knew what was needed to improve correct and what did we get? don’t know sid ,don’t care even if he is a great guy or a jerk……………..but he can’t hide behind the players,herb,or fowler…………….winning is great but effort does count and we have shown zero who has to take the hit? if it is so bad than take the whole 5 out and play the kids on the end of the bench PLEASE!

  15. boonami 02/25/2008 at 1:24 PM #

    There is definitely a disconnect by the fan base/WPC and the administration as to what we expect in athletics. It’s not just bball and fball, but all of our sports are suffering. Go to gopack.com and check the W/L of all our teams. we are sucking in most everything and that sucking begins with the AD and Chancellor. Fowl-up is coasting until retirement and the clown running the whole show doesn’t think athletics is that important to a school. If administration had any sense they’d axe Fowler and someone in who can bring us back to respectability in all sports.

  16. gcpack 02/25/2008 at 1:29 PM #

    On 2/24 at around 9:55 to 9:59 I posted comments that included complaining about losing the baseball series this weekend to ASU. I had gone to Gopack.com to see the latest baseball score and expected to get the LATEST baseball scroe but instead got the loss on Saturday to App.St. State DID WIN the series but it doesn’t change my opinion on the overal state of the athletic dept. and that the baseball team isn’t where it should be.

    I proceeded to include the schools drop in competitiveness in sports we used to challenge for in the ACC. I still think we are substantial less competitive in baseball, as in basketball, swimming, wrestling, etc. And by the way why do we keep the soccer coach year after year when we have never gained any measurable progress?

    I just wanted to correct my misstatement on the baseball series but reiterate that I have now decided that it is time to reconsider whether Fowler should continue as AD.

    As far as I can tell we are content to be average in most sports when we should want to challenge in the ACC in all sports. We aren’t doing that and I suspect that a new AD, such as Bobby Purcell or Charlie Cobb, could be more productive in that position.

  17. packgrad2000 02/25/2008 at 1:34 PM #

    wbnation-
    You seem to imply that we just don’t have the talent to compete and the players shouldn’t apologize for being less talented, but that’s not the issue. The issues here are not of talent, they are effort, work, conditioning, and basketball fundamentals, which have absolutely NOTHING to do with talent. There is no doubt in my mind that a decent coaching staff could have this squad sitting at 9-4 right now.

    One example of this is boxing out. This is something you learn in junior high basketball, but our guys don’t do it consistently, likely because it’s not emphasized in practice. I played high school basketball, and when a shot goes up, we were trained to not watch the shot, but look for someone to get your rearend on. Our guys do not do this, and it pains me to see when the other team’s guys go right around us because we don’t box out. JJ boxes out OK, Ben & Costner rarely do it.

    We lack fundamentals, attitude, etc. This has nothing to do with talent. I do see that we have a PG who can’t compete with many of the ACC’s PG’s, and I don’t blame him for that. That is an issue of talent, speed, etc. But when you’re outrebounded and out-hustled like we are game in and game out, that’s a problem from the top down.

  18. coach13 02/25/2008 at 1:38 PM #

    Being a college coach is like being president of the United States. you don’t know the ramifications unitl 4 or 5 years later. In 2-3 years, if Lowe’s team still stinks, we hire a new coach, 4-5 more years of crappy basketball. pretty soon another decade of bad basketball has passed.

    Our recruits for next year don’t seem seem like much to get excited about either. Do we have anymore european connections? CAN WE SIGN 1, JUST 1, top 10 recruit in the nation? I never thought i’d say it but Herb may have taken us as high as this program can go, and I did not like Herb as a coach.

  19. McPete 02/25/2008 at 1:44 PM #

    Since it’s probably too early to fire Lowe, Fowler should be shown the door. He gets paid alot of money to make very important decisions, and it looks like he screwed this one up royally. Like alot of other programs do, we should get a new AD in, and if next year there is no improvement in the basketball program, the new AD will fire the coach (who he didn’t bring in anyway). it might not make the environment a friendly one, but it’s gotta happen. i’m usually the last person to pile on lee fowler, but i don’t think he’s the guy who’ll a.) let lowe go when he needs to and b.) find a good replacement.

  20. wbnation 02/25/2008 at 1:46 PM #

    ktoh,
    I didn’t say sign him for the next 20yrs. Just trying to be realistic on our expectations and where Sid had to start from. Not trying to make excuses, just trying to show the reality of the situation. You can bury your head in the sand or throw stuff at the TV but its not going to change the fact of what the reality is, and that is we brought in a coach late as an afterthought, with no college coaching experience in recruiting and we started him out late, throw in we had glaring gaps in important positions(mainly point guard) so he had to fill those holes with less than ACC caliber players. Throw in injuries past and present and you have the debacle that is this season. If you think Sid or the players seem dillusional, most who want his head in year two take the cake in that department I am afraid.

  21. boonami 02/25/2008 at 1:51 PM #

    I find it hard to believe that Herb took us to the highest point we’ll be in bball since the Valvano years. We should never settle on average…ever. UNC didn’t Duke won’t after K leaves… they’ll give Dawkins or whoever it will be a a short lease and if they aren’t winning….bye bye. You know Dick Brodeur’s ass was on the line after Doh and was told to get Roy or else. Maybe if our Chancellor had some stones or gave a crap… we wouldn’t be here lamenting about another crappy season in NC State athletics.

  22. Wulfpack 02/25/2008 at 1:57 PM #

    I don’t think the gap between us and UNC and Duke has ever been wider. Both are top five programs with a legitimate shot at a national championship. Both of Hall of Fame coaches. Both fill the gym no matter who they are playing. Both sell shitloads of merchandise.

    The fall of this program this season has been enormous. We lost to ECU. We lost to New orleans. Who the hell are we, Stephen the fuck F Austin? This is NC STATE UNIVERSITY! We have here a coach who needs to read the Cliff Notes version of how to coach in the ACC every night. He is failing miserably.

    A change is in order.

  23. coach13 02/25/2008 at 2:02 PM #

    boonami, The difference is, Duke and UNC have recruits ready to play for them regardless of who the coach is. Go to rivals.com. Look at next year’s class. See how many in the top 25 are committed to UNC and how many more have UNC high on their consideration list. Until something really really big happens at State, we will never be in league with DUKE or UNC. The first opart of something really really big will have to be getting rid of Fowler.

  24. boonami 02/25/2008 at 2:14 PM #

    coach,I agree. winning breeds success and attitude and we have neither right now. I don’t expect us to be at the same level as Duke/UNC, but I do expect us to be competitive. Wulfpack is right. are we some D2 school or a school in the ACC with a history/tradition with the likes of Duke/UNC. I think our current administration doesn’t remember that or doesn’t care to.

  25. burnbarn 02/25/2008 at 2:16 PM #

    Ben has been delusional all season….

    Just after the first UNC loss he said ” we thought we were ready… we were on a win streak”

    he even had a good one pre season too…

    I wonder what comments like these are based off of?

    I am more interested in GG pre-game interview where he said something like “no one knows what we are going throught right now”.

    I wonder what that could be that he would go so far as to mention it?

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