Clemson Sets NCAA Record for Futility, Officiating Takes the Spotlight (Updated 3:15 pm)

07-08 Basketball179

Preface – Poor Oliver Purnell. Now he knows how Rick Barnes felt. And, we just happen to have a great little reminder for him of how Frank Haith felt last year that you can see by clicking here.

We are updating what was once the ‘open entry’ for Sunday with more fallout from Sunday’s Clemson-Carolina basketball game.

I’ve been swamped with work and and just haven’t had any time to be focused on the blog…so, it wasn’t until I went home for lunch and heard everyone on sports radio talking about the officiating last night until I realized that it really wasn’t just me who saw what I thought I saw on Sunday night. (You know, sometimes I worry).

Until now, we had limited our quick comments on the officiating with just a few quick points, but in light of the reaction that is out there it is definitely worth elevating some things including Micky Plyler’s rant that can be seen here.

If you are tired of hearing about people bitching and moaning about the officiating from last night’s Clemson-North Carolina game then you probably need to stop reading now and get back to whatever you were doing.

Simply stated, Ted Valentine, Bernard Clinton, Tony Greene ought to be ashamed of themselves! They should return their paychecks from last night so they would not feel that guilty.

See, this should not be a surprise to anyone. It has happened for years and will continue to happen.

DUKE AND NORTH CAROLINA PLAYED HOME BASKETBALL GAMES THIS WEEKEND AND THE BLUE DEVILS AND TAR HEELS COMBINED TO SHOOT 69 FREE THROWS WHILE THEIR OPPONENTS SHOT 20. DUKE AND NORTH CAROLINA COMBINED TO MAKE 51 FREE THROWS AND THEIR OPPONENTS MADE 10.

The outcome has been pre-determined so why even make the trip. Here is my suggestion:

Since we know they won’t let us win, I ask, “Why even go up there?”

We had originally limited our comments to the following quick observations…but there is so much more!

Somehow UNC-CH can trap without fouling and Clemson cannot. Strange?! Must be the coaching!

UNC takes 36 free throw attempts
Clemson takes 7 free throw attempts

^ This DESPITE Clemson’s consistent attacking the basket with dribble penetration and balanced offense that didn’t ignore James Mays and the post.

What is sad is that we ALL knew it was going to happen. One of best friends is a Clemson graduate and he was at the game. With the Tigers lead around 10 points in the second half I sent him the following, “This is going to be even more painful. You know that the officials simply aren’t going to allow this, don’t you?”

I guess I just got lucky.

At least this time Tyler Hanbrough wasn’t allowed to basically tackle Clemson’s shooter on the final play of regulation like was allowed in LittleJohn earlier in the year.

Folks, what you saw last night was a CLASSIC example of why Rick Barnes no longer coaches at Clemson and left the ACC. Unfortunately, it is a no-win situation for most programs. A couple of other observations made by the SFN team of authors:

* In 50 minutes of play, Clemson got only 7 free throws versus 37 on the other side. In other words, about every one and one-third minute UNC was getting a free throw, and Clemson had to wait over 7 minutes for one.

* Not one player on UNC had more than three fouls including Hansbrough who played 47 minutes. Have you ever seen a double over time game when a team did not have a single player in foul trouble?

* I remarked to my wife last night that the ACC doesn’t even try to hide their bias any more — the foot-stop-and-kick “fast break” being the worst example we’ve faced this year. I find it harder and harder to watch any ACC contests the worse this gets.

* In the first half last night KC Rivers picked up two back to back tacky fouls – one on offense and one on defense. I immediately remarked to my wife that is the kind of little stuff that goes unnoticed and completely changes games especially in light of the amazing way that Tyler Hansbrough literally runs over people and ‘plays so physical’ and yet NEVER…I mean NEVER even remotely gets in foul trouble.

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07-08 Basketball

179 Responses to Clemson Sets NCAA Record for Futility, Officiating Takes the Spotlight (Updated 3:15 pm)

  1. Big Worm 02/11/2008 at 2:57 PM #

    Tar Heel Fan with the exceedingly reasonable, fact-based posts. Wolf in sheep’s clothing? 😉

  2. highonlowe 02/11/2008 at 3:06 PM #

    PA and ’92, Let’s clarify the difference between non-alumni fans and bandwagon fans. Non-alumni fans are still true fans b/c they love the team regardless of their record. Truth is, people develop allegiances for many reasons. (Heck, I’ve never been to Pittsburgh but I’m a Penguins fan simply b/c of NHL ’95. Best hockey game ever, Lemieux was my idol when I was 14, and he and Jagr were unstoppable in that game.) If you can still claim allegiance to the Wolfpack in spite of the last 19 years, then you’re a true fan regardless of alumni status.
    Bandwagoneers, on the other hand, like a team only b/c Sportscenter tells them that they’re really good. See: extinct 90’s Cowboys fans, Yankee fans who disappear in October, and Tarheel fans who made short their trips to the watercooler last Feb. 5th but hunted you down this January.

  3. Rick 02/11/2008 at 3:14 PM #

    “Define foul trouble. I define it as three or more fouls which in this case would mean UNC had two players in foul trouble. Aside from that when Clemson and FSU played 2OT earlier this, Clemson committed 22 fouls and FSU 19 for a total of 41. No one in that game fouled out and two players on each side ended up with four fouls apiece”

    Three fouls in a double OT game is not foul trouble. Not one UNC player had more than 3 fouls. Not one. Including Traveler (Mr Physical) who played 47 min and only garnered 3 fouls.

    “On the season Clemson average 19 fouls per game so based on stats, you might have a case that perhaps they were quick on the whistle with the Tigers. ”

    So a 50% increase is just them being “quick on the whistle”. Yet they were only quick one way because UNC was below the average fouls called against Clemson opponents.

    You want stats let’s talk stats.

    For the year Clemson has 438 FTAs per game (19 per game)
    Their opponents have 433 FTAs.
    And yet this game the number was 35 vs 7
    HMMMMMMMM – coincidence?

    On the year UNC was called for 395 fouls, their opponents 517. Averages of 16 and 22 per game. So even by UNC’s normal lopsidedness, this game is outside the norm.

    For the year UNC has shot 651 FTs (27 per game) and their opponents 368 (15 per game).
    Again even by UNC’s already gernous advantage, this game falls well outside the norm.

  4. SuperStuff 02/11/2008 at 3:31 PM #

    Those refs should be ashamed. Tons of contact from UNC on several plays especially going to the rim and they don’t call a thing then in OT they have the nerve to call hand checking on Oglesby. The kid was bumped in the air on his three point shoot just before that and didn’t get the call. Seven free throw attempts all game by Clemson. You have got to be kidding. That was a complete joke on the part of the refs.

  5. BillyVest 02/11/2008 at 3:45 PM #

    Couple of blown calls jump to mind in this game. One was the timeout given to Roy, after Clemson had inbounded the ball and was a 3rd of the way up the court.

    If the fans are loud and you can’t get the refs attention most coaches have to live with the consequences.

    Hansborough’s steal in the second OT on Potter started with a lot of handchecking and hacking and I wondered how a foul wasn’t called on Hansborough.

    I’m sure there are more instances of bad calls, but Prunell really needs to work on free throw shooting. If his team made at least 2 free throws in regulation, they’d have won.

  6. b 02/11/2008 at 4:02 PM #

    Rick, that was funny!

    I don’t know if there’s a deliberate motivation from Refs to call the game one-sided. My only complaints are when they don’t call even it both ways, or change their game focus at halftime a’ la our game against Duke. Though the refs control the flow of the game to a degree, they weren’t the ones that missed all their FTs in regulation.

    The tapes are there, if you want to spend some time on it and break down each play I bet you find a few that break both ways. But if you find that there is a disparity post it on YouTube.

    Bottom line Clemson beat themselves with a glaring achilles heel, and one that they haven’t been able to cure for decades. Free throw shooting.

  7. Trip 02/11/2008 at 4:09 PM #

    I dunno how Clemson manages to recruit snipers like Olgesby that can literally drain a 3 from anywhere in the halfcourt, and then also has a guy on their roster that can’t hit a free throw 50% of the time.

  8. doatesjr 02/11/2008 at 4:09 PM #

    So UNC averages 27 FTA/game and their opponents average 15 FTA/game. Well, NC State averages 24.7 FTA/game and their opponents average 13.8 FTA/game. Yet I don’t hear anyone here howling about poor officiating in State games (unless it’s that State is getting screwed). Not to mention that a couple of the Pack’s close wins this year were a direct result of hitting some free throws with only seconds left on the clock.

    Folks, it’s called fan bias. I’m certainly not bold enough to say that ACC officiating is good (not even average at times), but the team your rooting for puts a different spin on someone’s idea of good/bad officiating.

    Clemson lost because they stopped doing what allowed them to dominate most of the game. They stopped playing sound defense and they started turning the ball over (and missed shots). That is a recipe for disaster. Plus, Clemson only needed to hit one of those few FT’s they did have and they’d have won. Just like the game in Littlejohn.

  9. Rick 02/11/2008 at 4:13 PM #

    ” They stopped playing sound defense and they started turning the ball over (and missed shots).”

    You are equating the result with the action. They HAD to stop playing defense because they were all in foul trouble (4 starters had 4 or more fouls). UNC on the other hand could just about castrate a player and not get a call.

  10. Howling4thepack 02/11/2008 at 4:15 PM #

    This site used to pride itself on facts and objectivity. This basketball season SFN, you have simply become another “PackPride” with whiny posts like this one.

  11. packbackr04 02/11/2008 at 4:17 PM #

    ITS not the shear # of fouls vs the other teams fouls at issue. its the strategic timing of those fouls that are either run stoppers(against UNC or Duke) or run starters (for UNC or Duke). i can think of no better example than the kickstop/ steal this yr. And the timing of fouls being called is such a subjective thing that its hard to come out and say a ref is biased. but its just so balatantly obvious recently.

    and if i was a player and ted valentine smacked me on the ass as much as i saw him touching and grabbing players, i would turn around and tell him not to lay another GD finger on me or i would break it. my mom doesnt even touch me that way you sick weirdo!!

    also a terrible call last night was after oglesby hit a 3 from 4 ft behind the 3-point line, the officials stopped play to review and”make sure” it was a 3. it gave Roy a chance to huddle up his guys and draw a play up (which of course they scored on the possession). Again, its not so much taht they did it, its just the timing. of it that was huge. that was a big possesion for UNC and stopping play really took the wind out of Clemsons sails.

  12. Wulfpack 02/11/2008 at 4:18 PM #

    Clemson pissed this game away and they pissed it away quickly. When the going got tough, they choked. It’s pretty simple: they could have put the game away on four different occasions. They choked all four times and gave UNC new life. Clemson has been doing this for years. It is nothing new.

    Hansbrough was a freaking beast last night. I have said it before that I would absolutely LOVE to have him wear a Wolfpack uniform (who in the hell wouldn’t??). He embodies everything that I would want in a player. Clemson had no answer.

  13. wufpup76 02/11/2008 at 4:21 PM #

    THF makes some good points … good of you to step into the wolves’ den today (or tigers’ den for this day only) 😉

    that said, it was REALLY physical down low at times during last night’s clemson-chapel hill game and it really bugs me that booker picked up quick, cheap fouls at times in far fewer minuetes than hansborough, who is admittedly one of the most physical players in the nation … i have never understood, nor will i ever understand how you can purposefully play such physical game EVERY game and only average 2 fouls per contest … i really don’t get it … i have no problem with physical play down low, i used to love mixing it up and going for rebounds; that said, when each and every game one guy gets two fouls and the other guy fouls out in 20-25 minutes what gives?

    2 of hansborough’s 3 fouls last night WERE AT THE TOP OF THE KEY on blocking fouls – one where he attempted to take a charge ON A GUARD, the other where he came out on a screen and got too physical on the ball handler … think about that for a second … THE GUY IS INTENSELY PHYSICAL DOWN LOW, YET 2 OF HIS 3 TOTAL FOULS ARE COMITTED OUT TOP AGAINST GUARDS FROM CLEMSON … he simply is not going to be called on his physical play down low whereas the other guy is … there’s just no other way to put it … don’t give me this “such a SUPERIOR player BS” – he’s physical and admits it

    yes, i put the tigers’ loss on them; they choked it away down the stretch … and THF makes some good points … but this disparity is too much given the Tigers’ aggressiveness last night … the better team for last night did not win … THF’s analogy to State-VT game is somewhat off to me … VT settled for a lot of jumpshots and State did an effective job boxing-out and rebounding; clemson was aggressive thoroughout and always crashed the boards

    even freaking doug gottlieb gets it …
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/notebook?page=notebook/weeklywatch014

    look under the ‘3-point shot’ section of the article

    yeah, we’re parnoid, but it adds up after a while

    go pack

  14. Dr. BadgerPack 02/11/2008 at 4:25 PM #

    “Yet I don’t hear anyone here howling about poor officiating in State games (unless it’s that State is getting screwed).”

    It’s been commented upon ad nausem that ACC officiating is horrid. Many instances by me in STATE’S FREAKING WINS. Oh, and since you love to boast about your UNC edumacation, I should point out that in this case it is “hear,” not “here” (the “a” is a little far off for a typo grammar boy).

    “Folks, it’s called fan bias. I’m certainly not bold enough to say that ACC officiating is good (not even average at times), but the team your rooting for puts a different spin on someone’s idea of good/bad officiating.”

    And what of impartial observers who believed Clemson got jobbed? “Your” is possessive, I believe you wanted “You’re,” a contraction for you are.

    I don’t need to bring up the definition of foul trouble in a double OT game. Rick handled that amply.

    Lastly,

    “This site used to pride itself on facts and objectivity. This basketball season SFN, you have simply become another “PackPride” with whiny posts like this one.”

    I must have missed the part where SFN forgot to establish “facts” in this post. I do commend you on using proper spelling and grammar though– must be a state fan thing.

  15. choppack1 02/11/2008 at 4:32 PM #

    “So UNC averages 27 FTA/game and their opponents average 15 FTA/game. Well, NC State averages 24.7 FTA/game and their opponents average 13.8 FTA/game.”

    Have you seen how we defend?? We don’t. We don’t box out, we don’t pressure the ball. OTOH, watch Handcheckbro defend on the perimeter and tell me he doesn’t handcheck.

  16. Rick 02/11/2008 at 4:33 PM #

    “This site used to pride itself on facts and objectivity. This basketball season SFN, you have simply become another “PackPride” with whiny posts like this one.”

    First, have you read this page? Facts abound.

    Second, why would we be objective. We call our selves StateFansNation. Not ObjectiveFanNation. If you want objective go to theACC.com

  17. doatesjr 02/11/2008 at 4:34 PM #

    Dr. BadgerPack,

    You got me on the your/you’re, but the ‘Yet I don’t hear anyone here’ is correct unless I’m mistaken. I was a science major, not an English major. Kudos to you though!

    I am sorry that I did not exhibit the perfect grammar and typing skills that everyone else on this site does. I’ll be more careful in the future so as not to offend the literary geniuses who post HERE.

  18. JeremyH 02/11/2008 at 4:38 PM #

    um shouldn’t we be happy Clemson lost? it means we still have an outside shot of 4th place in the ACC.

  19. doatesjr 02/11/2008 at 4:47 PM #

    Oh, and Dr. Badgerpack, if your going to call me grammar boy, I’d like it to be hyphenated and capitalized. You know, like “Grammar-Boy”. It looks more like a superhero that way 🙂

  20. Dr. BadgerPack 02/11/2008 at 4:50 PM #

    doatesjr,

    I’m a chemist, not an English major. Needed one more class for that one and figured I’d rather graduate and work on the good old doctorate.

    Your grammar isn’t the issue, it’s the idiocy latent in your arguments. You speak of “fan bias,” well… pot, meet kettle. You should be able to recognize this, as I’m sure you’re smart– if memory serves you are a Chemical Engineer (or that is at least the degree area you stated you were/are in).

    I’ll admit goofing on calling you out on “hear/here”– I read and reply a bit too quickly sometimes. The mind plays tricks when you are inherently predispositioned to expecting errors from a said group. 🙂

    JeremyH- Yes, the Clemson loss is great for State! However, it does not mitigate the fact that ACC officiating is horrid. It should be pointed out in each and every instance, as nothing will ever be done about it if respective schools cherry-pick their compaints. (Not that I expect anything would be done if 10/12 ACC schools threw an absolute fit, but still- you get my main point).

  21. Tar Heel Fan 02/11/2008 at 5:00 PM #

    Another interesting point is Clemson also had 16 more shots from the floor. Since the turnovers ended up being even at 20 it is likely( though I do not have the possession stats available to me) UNC got fouls(and presumably FTs) whereas Clemson got shots at the basket. Granted that still favors UNC based on their FT percentages but I think it evens out the foul situation more than we probably realize. I also maintain Clemson does not seek out contact because it is not beneficial for them to get to the FT line. I just not sure you can fully prove foul calling bias by pointing to one extreme case when averages include games that are higher and lower than the average. The bottom line is Clemson was 11 points up with three minutes left and what happened after that had more to do with Tiger turnovers and their failure to play defense than the foul situation.

    Now, if say you saw contact that should have been called and was not, then I cannot argue with that because you see what you see based on your bias and I see what I see based on mine. I do know I questioned a couple of calls that went against UNC but I also never generally complain about the refs because I believe there are enough opportunities in a game to win it without needing a crucial call from the refs.

    The review of the Oglesby three came because he jumped and leaned in and was in the air over the line when he shot. They wanted to confirm that he had started behind the line. They waited to do so after they called a clear foul on Oglesby against Thomas. During that period both teams huddled up which actually benefited Clemson since I think they were out of timeouts.

    And no, I am not a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I run my own UNC blog but I tend to operate on a more even keel that they you might be accustomed to seeing from other UNC fans. Anyway, I lurk here all the time and find your discussions interesting and passionate.

  22. redfred2 02/11/2008 at 5:05 PM #

    Hot dog, overlydoateduponjunoir has made another appearance on HEAR once again.

    doatedupon, go take a honest look at the Frank Haith video and tell me what you think.

    We’ll all let your thoughts on that video determine who calls who “biased”.

  23. statered 02/11/2008 at 5:13 PM #

    I saw two instances where Hansjob clearly fouled Booker going for a rebound, one time as they were chasing the ball free from other players. Both times UNC got the ball and no foul was called. It was so friggin obvious that Hansjob would have gotten the call…after all Booker fouled out, Handsjob didn’t.

  24. doatesjr 02/11/2008 at 5:16 PM #

    I’ll be the first to admit to fan bias. When I watch a game, I cuss and yell at every call that doesn’t go UNC’s way. However, after I cool down I recognize that often my yelling and screaming is just… fan bias. I’m not sure that everyone on this board could truthfully say the same thing.

    I know that Roy and the Heels get calls sometimes, but I don’t think that street is as one way as many on this board seem to think. And complaining about stuff like hand checking is a waste of time. It’s like complaining about palming, everyone does and they’ve let it go on for years. I hate that the game has lost a lot of the finesse it once had now that so much rough play is allowed, but teams and coaches have to recognize it and play accordingly. Unfortunately for some teams, that kind of play will favor teams/players that are very aggressive in the post.

    One thing about the UNC/Clemson game is that UNC could have easily rolled over and played dead (they did for about 35 minutes). They were starting a 3rd string PG, whose backup (Ginyard) was hobbled. Clemson was playing more aggressively (and better) and ‘the streak’ had to end sometime. But it didn’t work out that way. Sure, they caught some breaks from the officials, but Clemson didn’t help matters either. And to paraphrase one of the classiest coaches (and individuals) that has been associated with the ACC: “they never gave up”.

  25. Girlfriend in a Coma 02/11/2008 at 5:49 PM #

    To make the point, let me switch sports and ask if you cats know how long ago it was when an opponent was awarded a PK at Old Trafford? How many PKs was Man U awarded over that same period?

    Look it up.

    Same deal here.

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