OTR: ACC Record & NCAAT Chances [Updated (10:10am) w/ SOS Links]

Note: If you are somewhat new to SFN and have recently become a reader because of our feature in the NC State Alumni Magazine then please don’t hesitate to click here for somewhat of an opening message.

If you were to click on the “Archives” tab just above the headline to this entry then you would see a host of “tags” and “categories” that can more easily direct you to to past entries here at SFN.

One of the categories that you can browse is titled “On the Record” (Click here to browse) that we sometimes shorten to “OTR”. OTRs are just one place where we go “On the Record” with a prediction &/or expectation and expressly ask you to also log your take on the topic.

NC State’s regular season is just under 50% complete – 14 out of conference games are behind us and 16 conference game remain. A better time therefore could not exist to go ‘On the Record’ and share predictions for NC State’s 2007-2008 ACC Basketball record.

‘At the turn’ the Wolfpack sits 11-3 with an RPI of #59 after playing the 158th toughest schedule in America.

(Please note: we have not played the 158th toughest out of conference schedule in America as many teams have already started conference play. Addtitionall, State’s SOS would have been somewhere in the 70s if it weren’t for our last two games against PC and NCCU. While still producing an OOC SOS SIGNIFICANTLY more acceptable than our previous regime, Coach Lowe’s staff could do themselves a favor by just slightly improving a couple of our cupcakes as the difference between the actual strength of #320 and number #200 is much less significant than the actual impact on our rankings of playing #320 and #200.)

Before the season began I projected that an 11-3 OOC record was the most likely scenario for the Wolfpack heading into ACC play. Of course, had you told me that the Pack would have beaten Villanova, Davidson, Seton Hall and Cincinnati while telling me nothing else I would have been ecstatic and presumed we would be 13-1 at this time. UNO and ECU threw a wrench in those plans.

The impact of the UNO and ECU losses on our season are not to be dismissed yet. As you will see in a moment, due to the strength of our ACC schedule, if the Wolfpack had actually achieved that 13-1 OOC record then we could have skated to an NCAA Tournament berth with a 7-9 ACC record and a 20-10 overall record with little problem.

Heading into ACC play I suggest that you start your analysis by clicking here to give yourself a more clear idea of just how difficult the Wolfpack’s conference slate is this season.

The rest of the ACC’s RPI is currently listed as follows:

(2) UNC-CH
(17) Duke
(36) Florida State
(46) Clemson
(48) Miami
(57) Wake Forest
(73) Virginia
(91) Georgia Tech
(102) Virginia Tech
(110) Boston College
(137) Maryland

In summary, NC State plays:

* NINE games against ACC opponents currently ranked in the RPI’s Top 50.* ELEVEN games against the ACC’s six highest rated teams in the RPI.* only ONE game against the worst rated team in the league, and that is on the road...and here is the killer —

* only FOUR games of a mathematically possible EIGHT match-ups against the lowest rated four teams in the league.

Adjusting for the fact that NC State cannot play ourselves, this means that we effectively play every team in the top 45% of the league for the MAXIMUM amount of games possible while playing every team in the bottom 36% of the league for the MINIMUM amount of games possible.

I’ve heard/seen a lot of people make uneducated projections about the minimum standards needed to get NC State into the NCAA Tournament this season. But, as usually goes with the internet, you get a lot of their opinion without a lot of fact or rational thought behind that fact.

Allow me to propose that if NC State were to achieve an 8-8 ACC record against this difficult of a conference schedule (while the ACC is ranked as one of the best leagues in America this season) that there is no way in hell that a 19-11 Wolfpack squad who would easily be ranked in the RPI’s Top 35-40 would fail to make the NCAA Tournament (unless we lost by 25+ in a Thursday game in the ACC Tournament and was on a painful losing streak at the end of the year).

With all of that said, accounting for the fact the NC State’s already weak and inexperienced backcourt has been impacted by the season-ending injury to our starting point guard in tandem with injuries to our two best shooters (Courtney Fells and Dennis Horner)…I am predicting a most-likely scenario of a 6-10 record for this year’s Wolfpack and an NIT bid with a stretch possibility of an 8-8 record and an NCAA Tournament bid. If the Wolfpack’s record were to fall outside of either side of this 6 to 8 win range then my disappointment or happiness would be greatly enhanced.

To note, the injuries – not just to Degand but the potential residual/lingering impact to Horner and Fells – definitely impacted my prediction. Had Degand remained healthy I would logged an 8-8 expectation which would have presented a strong three game (60%) improvement from last season.

We’d love to see what you think in our comments section…but, we are going to ask you to limit your comments to focusing very much on the topic as in the future we are not going to want to click on this entry and ready random conversations. (So, don’t be surprised if some of your off-topic comments disappear).

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109 Responses to OTR: ACC Record & NCAAT Chances [Updated (10:10am) w/ SOS Links]

  1. highonlowe 01/11/2008 at 12:30 PM #

    Coach Lowe has done his best to keep his magic tricks a secret by not showing them to his audience more than once.
    This angle is tired and false. Watching our putrid offense, (lowest scoring team in the ACC, btw) what makes one think we’re sandbagging anything. We’re struggling to earn the points we do score, I seriously doubt we have any secret weapons in our arsenal.

  2. old13 01/11/2008 at 12:30 PM #

    Re: OOC Schedule – Based on Lowe’s comments before the ECU game, he didn’t have much to do with scheduling at least some, if not all of the OOC games. I wonder who did that! (&*$$%%^#@#@^&* LF!

    While the Pack has trouble scoring sometimes, the D has become a force to deal with, especially if everyone is healthy. And I think that PG play will improve as the season wears on. I could see 12-4 happening if the team keeps progressing and gets a couple of breaks (not in bones!). 8-8 seems reasonable. I would be very dissappointed at 6-10.

  3. spanky 01/11/2008 at 12:53 PM #

    I’m with old13. I am quite optimistic that they will continue to improve. Not to mention that during some of the interviews the players and even Coach Lowe gave me the impression that they were not taking these past 3 games very seriously. I’m hoping the mentality now becomes a very serious “lets get down to business” type of mindset. If this is the indeed the case I can foresee continued improvement and a record above .500 in the ACC. If not it will be a long, long season.

    In other news on the way to Dabney (where I am now) I saw Fells coming across the brickyard and he had absolutely zero limp…

  4. RAWFS 01/11/2008 at 1:07 PM #

    ^ Spanky, you would have been a blog hero if you had asked him his status and gotten back here with it.

  5. PacknSack 01/11/2008 at 1:10 PM #

    I joke with my co-workers that a 2-14 ACC record is in the offing and Lowe will get run out of town.

    My gut tells me 2-6 in the first half, but 6-2 in the second. There is talent here, but it’s going to take the team deciding that it is tired of getting beaten by equal, or even inferior, teams to get it together.

  6. wxpack 01/11/2008 at 1:22 PM #

    Actually based on our current injuries and the schedule and looking at the conf as a whole I think 8-8 is reasonable. Outside of UNC, Duke and until recently Clemson the rest of the league is not that great. My big fear is that our MO of not being consistent outside and teams packing it in against our bigs will result is a losing ACC record. If we can hit jumpers from the outside this team can finish 8-8.

  7. wayofthemaster 01/11/2008 at 1:38 PM #

    I like wbnation’s picks, too.

    However, I’m more pessimistic and wouldn’t be surprised if the team dropped the second Clemson game, the Georgia Tech game and maybe even the Miami game to go 4-12.

    This team has showed absolutely no signs of improvement.

    If anything, they have regressed.

    Will this team finish with more conference wins than the 2000-2001 squad (5-11)?

  8. TNCSU 01/11/2008 at 1:52 PM #

    ^^^^Spanky, you would have been a blog hero if you had asked him his status and gotten back here with it.

    RAWFS, while I agree it would be nice for bloggers to know, this is one of those where it’s probably best that we don’t know….. but particularly it’s best that the TARHOLES don’t know!! It’s like the Patriots with their injury report – hell, it’s a piece of fiction, and I have no problem with that. If they (UNC staff) knew Fells was out, they would game plan with that in mind. Likewise, if they knew he was good to go (which I doubt), they would game plan knowing that he was going to play. While I would love to know, even if I did, I don’t think I would put it on this blog, because it would only aid the enemy!!

  9. Todd 01/11/2008 at 1:54 PM #

    Pre season i hoped for 12-4 or even 13-3. From what we see so far I think we should be thrilled with 8-8 w/ win in Raleigh vs ‘holes. But this may be out of reach?

  10. spanky 01/11/2008 at 2:34 PM #

    I desperately wanted to go ask him about it but I was already 10 minutes late for a class we had an intro quiz in and had just enough time to notice there was no limp while haulin a$$ to Dabney.

  11. Classof89 01/11/2008 at 2:43 PM #

    I say 7-9. I’m not convinced yet that Lowe can get the team to play with consistent horn to horn intensity against the weaker ACC teams (which, as I’ve said on here before, is Coach K’s greatest strength, IMO)

    This of course means we are going to lose one or two that we shouldn’t (like the game at Miami last year). So yeah, Lowe might pull his Jimmy V motivational magic tricks and get a big win vs. Duke or UNC this season, but that will merely cancel out the “huh?” losses that are sure to come. This was a hallmark of Jimmy V (losing a couple to teams you shouldn’t), and is also the operating philosophy of the NBA (no reason to get serious about the regular season games until about February)where Lowe cut his coaching teeth. Once again, however, we will be a team to be feared come tourney time. Unfortunately, the injuries have just about eliminated the possibility of a top 4 finish and avoidance of a Thursday game (the true key to winning the ACC tourney in its current format), so though there may be an inspirational run to an NIT or low NCAA seed, there will be no ACC championship this year…

  12. RAWFS 01/11/2008 at 2:49 PM #

    TNCSU, good points.

  13. Trip 01/11/2008 at 3:04 PM #

    In related news, Roy trips over power cord and cuts his forehead.

    http://www.wral.com/sports/story/2290253/

  14. E-RO 01/11/2008 at 3:10 PM #

    at UNC = Loss
    at Clemson= Loss
    Miami= Win
    Georgia Tech= Win
    at FSU= Win
    at Duke= Loss
    Wake= Win
    VT= Win
    at Maryland= Loss
    at BC= Loss
    Clemson= Win
    North Carolina= Win
    at Virginia= Loss
    FSU= Win
    Duke= Win
    at Wake= Win

    Those would be my game to game prediction, however odds are our record is more like 9-7, 8-8.

    People complain about how sluggish offense, but part of that is because we slow the game down more than most teams. Yes, our offense needs improvement, but it can and will improve.

    Our Defense seems to be pretty stout. It’ll keep us in games. We don’t force a lot of turnovers, and rebounding could improve, but we force bad shots, and don’t foul.

    When it comes to fouls, no one does it better than us. We are fouled more than anyone else in the country, and we foul less often than anyone not named Ohio State (last I checked atleast). That’ll help us.

  15. highstick 01/11/2008 at 5:22 PM #

    We have scared Roy so bad, the fellow tripped today, busted his head and had to have 5 stitches. Maybe we can add some more stitches to his “backside” tomorrow!

    Actually, I finally figured it out this morning. The NCSU School of Biology and Genetics has just completed an experiment in cloning. Last summer they cloned the returning players from last year. Sid has used these clones during the non-conference schedule so that he would have the “original” player ready for the ACC conference schedule. The cloning process had some minor glitches though. Costner’s clone fell in love with burgers and has not practiced his 3 pointer. So he was basically a “flop”! Some of the clones, like Grant and Fells, have shown some signs of brilliance, but still have not performed up to expectations. Some of the others, such as Horner and Ferguson, just didn’t do anything. Basically, the experiment has turned out to be a total disaster.

    This past Wednesday, the entire cloned group were released except for Fell’s clone. He was last seen been treated at the NCSU Infirmary(does that place still exist???).

    Well, anyway, this is my story and I’m sticking to it. Particularly if we “overperform” tomorrow~

  16. tvopack 01/11/2008 at 5:35 PM #

    Didn’t most of us predicted that we’ll lose most of our games against Cin, Seton Hall, Vil, or MichSt? Guess what, we only lost to MichSt. I think we have enough of prediction and let’s the team play. I just want them to win enough of games to get into the tournament and then perform extremely well when the tournament comes.

  17. rky 01/11/2008 at 5:44 PM #

    I had my prediction in mind as I scrolled down through the comments. 4-12 first appeared in Trip’s worst case scenario. Noah also had that as his forecast. I am thrilled to see we have so many optimistic Wolfpack fans out there predicting a winning (or even .500) ACC season. I just can’t so it though . . . 4-12 is what I see based on the performance thus far. I’m thinking a home win against GT & VT, a split with Wake and then one more ‘miracle’ along the way. Of course, when we did this sort of excercise during football season, I was wrong by a few games. Man, would I love to be wrong by a few games here, too!

    Cheers . . . GO PACK!!!

  18. wufpaxno1 01/11/2008 at 5:45 PM #

    SFN, this is a good piece and I love the detailed analysis and crunching of numbers that you guys do, it is what keeps me coming here as the best source of up to date information for Wolfpack sports. But having said that, I have yet to see RPI on anyone’s schedule, roster, or as a top prospect, and while it is fun to look at and will have an impact come selection Sunday, we are just under half way into the season with teams having played the lesser part of their schedules.

    (Time Out to click on ad!)

    This has for all practical purposes been the preseason, a tune up for the regular season which lies ahead for all members of the power conferences at the division one level. These past games, with few exceptions, are all but completely meaningless.

    (Time out to click on ad!)

    It is not how you start, but how you finish. Not how much you beat up a weaker opponent, but how much you get prepared for your conference schedule. Who would know this better then Sidney Lowe, who lived through the miracle of ’83? Valvano never placed much importance on the early schedule at all; his focus was on getting prepared for the conference schedule and the games that mattered. Why would anyone assume that Sid would be any different?

    (Time out to click on ad!)

    Does anyone really think that the focus of the coaches over the past couple of weeks was on preparing for the tight zone defense that they would have to face against the mighty Blue Hose (Anyone else here referred to as that?), or the fantastic athleticism of NCCU? No way, it was all about preparing for UNC, Clemson, and the rest of the ACC schedule. Why would anyone, except maybe Clemson, spend the early part of the year preparing for teams that play zone and slow the game down when the games that count are going to be against teams that are going to man up and push the tempo?

    (Time out to click on ad!)

    Do you know why there are so many early round upsets of power conference teams in the NCAA Tourney, because the top teams are built for speed and athleticism and sometimes they get thrown out of whack by a weaker team trying to slow things down. Princeton does this, but how often do you see them in the final four? Never! No sir, Sid’s team has bigger goals than beating NCCU by fifty, or even beating ECU in a meaningless regular season game at all. If this team wins the ACC, or goes deep into the NCAAs how many of you will even care that we lost to ECU, or even remember?

    (Time out to click on ad!)

    You could lose half of your meaningless early season games against weaker non conference foes and it would not matter one bit as you long as you take care of business in conference play. Hell, you could lose all of them and all of the conference regular season games too, but if you win the post season tourney you still get into the NCAAs, and isn’t that the goal of every team. The NCAA’s are a new season, and it does not matter how you get there as long as you get there.

    (Time out to click on ad!)

    Sidney Lowe knows this all too well and I, for one, would like to believe that this team has looked disinterested in many games thus far because their focus has been on the bigger picture. Has anyone seen Sidney look genuinely concerned so far? And why do you think that is? This man loves this school and is a good coach, he proved that last year and we are fixing to see it again this year.

    (Time out to click on ad!)

    Sid knows what he is doing, he deserves the benefit of the doubt, and until he proves otherwise, he and this team deserve our confidence, more confidence then 6-10, 8-8, or even 10-6. But it does not really matter what we believe, it is all about what the team believes. Valvano was a dreamer, and he believed in a team that needed a miracle, and we have a banner in the rafters to show for it. But was it really a miracle, or was it placing emphasis on where it should be placed?

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am planning on feasting this weekend, on the menu is Rack of Lamb, anyone care to join me? Go Pack!!!!

  19. BorntoHowl 01/11/2008 at 5:51 PM #

    If our second half team for the first half of the season shows up for the entire game for the rest of the season… 9-7

    If the opposition plays zone… 3-13

  20. ltm3434 01/11/2008 at 5:55 PM #

    RAWFS, I actually posted this yesterday. I ran into Courtney and he said his ankle was “pretty good.” I’ll take pretty good.

  21. wufpaxno1 01/11/2008 at 5:55 PM #

    Wow! Did you know that you can buy Michigan State Tickets through Google on this site? See, I really do click the ads, and if it helps keep this sight going, I will continue to click away.

  22. tvopack 01/11/2008 at 5:57 PM #

    ^i can’t write all of that up but I’m with you on that!

  23. Wulfpack 01/11/2008 at 7:35 PM #

    “Sidney Lowe knows this all too well and I, for one, would like to believe that this team has looked disinterested in many games thus far because their focus has been on the bigger picture.”

    Perhaps the Pack should have learned its lesson from last year that every game is important. Had we had just a few more wins, we would have made the tourney. The selection committee ways terrible losses and solid wins equally.

  24. choppack1 01/11/2008 at 7:39 PM #

    Hard to predict what this team – and it’s injuries will finish.

    For tomorrow’s game – there’s a Youtube clip out there of CC’s game vs. UNC when we won in Chapel Hill. Worth noting that our starting lineup that game was big AND slow. We started CC, Osh, Inge, Cornelius Williams and RK. We then finished the 1st half w/ Arch, CC, Osh, RK and Inge – was Gainey hurt??

    Anyway – I’d have to wager on 8-8. I’d feel worse about our chances if we hadn’t done well against our other major conference opponents. I think we may get absolutely destroyed manana – but I think our long term output is sunny if we can get over the injury bug.

  25. werncstate 01/11/2008 at 7:57 PM #

    Wufpaxno1,
    I loved your time out to click an ad post. You’ve convinced me to change my prediction. Based on the performance from the team so far I was going to predict 5-11. The dynamics are about to change. I’m going to trust Gavin’s preseason pridiction and officially go on record saying State will finish 15-1. Time for T-Rev to shine. Go Pack!

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