Pack vs PC: State Ugly Again, Advances to 10-3

“It is like going to the dentist without any novocaine.” – Gary Hahn describing NC State Basketball

State shot 1 of 11 from the three point line in the first half and 5 of 7 in the second half

PC

NC State takes the court today against a Presbyterian College team with a horrible record but who have been playing well of late. The “Hose” were tied at Wake Forest mid-way through the second half and lost at Georgia by only ten points. A full preview can be found here.

Despite a lot of speculation that Marques Johnson has supplanted Javi Gonzalez as the Wolfpack’s starting point guard, Coach Lowe says that Gonzalez will start today. Of course, it doesn’t matter who starts; it matters who plays the most and who is on the court when the game is on the line.

Gonzalez had 17 minutes of playing time in each of the last two games. He has hit 4 of 22 shots from the field this season (18.2 percent) and has nine assists and 14 turnovers.

Additionally, the N&O has featured Marques Johnson in an article today.

“My first game, I was extremely nervous,” Johnson said this week. “I hadn’t been in a competitive atmosphere like that in a year. Once the second half came along I started to feel better, and [against] Western Carolina I definitely felt a lot more comfortable.

“I think I bring a lot, with my size, at point guard. I know what type of team we have, so I don’t necessarily have to … score all the buckets. Whatever we need at the time, I’ll bring.”

Elsewhere, it is a big day for ACC Basketball as some of our mid-tier and lower tier teams have the opportunities to do well for themselves and the conference. For example, BC hosts Kansas and Maryland travels to UNC-Charlotte.

(Dear BC fans…in the ACC we pull FOR each other in these types of games.)

For open thread-like comments please use Friday’s Open Thread

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07-08 Basketball

148 Responses to Pack vs PC: State Ugly Again, Advances to 10-3

  1. benniebolton 01/05/2008 at 5:01 PM #

    redfred, it’s like you just keep waiting for the switch to be flipped, but instead it’s the same old, same old….. very frustrating

  2. melikesncsu 01/05/2008 at 5:26 PM #

    sorry if i missed this somewhere, any word on why Horner did not play and was in a black sweat suit the whole game? Also appeared to be limping (from the 300 section)

  3. RAWFS 01/05/2008 at 5:32 PM #

    It’s a damned good thing that there aren’t any pictures in the standings. If there were, our team would look worse than Sandra Bernhard after a three day bender.

  4. Trip 01/05/2008 at 5:39 PM #

    Wow, I didn’t think that my predicted score of the wolfpack would be the total amount of points in the game.

    Before you guys throw the team away, Presby played outstanding, they didn’t take a play off, and their game plan was perfect against us. They played a packed in zone defense for a majority of the game and they executed it extremely well, basically closing up any hole for passing to Hickson.

    There’s a reason the NBA banned zone defense for a while, because it’s BORING. It’s like watching paint dry, and that’s why todays game was not exciting at all.

    Every possession whether on offense or defense used up the entire shot clock, Presby was exceptionally patient on offense, waiting for a good shot/lane to drive to appear as for the most part we played suffocating defense. A lot of their points came as the shot clock was winding down and they drove in with hopes of making a basket. It was basically NC State vs NC State as far as tempo goes, as both teams didn’t try to force turnovers or run the ball. It didn’t help that we couldn’t shoot a 3 to save our life in the first half, which only played into their defense. Thank whoever up in the sky that Javi/Fells hit some 3’s finally or we might be sulking after a loss.

    That being said. Until we can consistently shoot 3’s, we’re going to suck it up every game unless an opponent graces us with man to man defense by forgetting to scout us.

    Good games by:
    Grant, Javi, Fells, Harris. Man, the more I see of Harris the more I like him. He plays with passion no matter how many minutes he gets and is a very good defensive player.

    Everyone else just played average. Average will not win any ACC games.

  5. ShootingGuard 01/05/2008 at 5:39 PM #

    “Guys, we aren’t going to blow ANYBODY out without a point guard to push the tempo,; with the kind of defense we play; and with the set offense that we play.”

    Add to that:

    We don’t have anyone, except Gavin Grant, who can take anyone toward the hole off the dribble.

    We can’t shoot the ball from the outside. If Fells or Brandon doesn’t come out hot in a game, we are in big trouble. Lowe was so desperate today, he even brought in Tomato to see if he could loosen up the zone. Of course, Tomato couldn’t even move fast enough to get an open look against a zone.

    We are a slow team, as most big man dominated teams are, and just lost our fastest player in Degand.

    We can’t get any continuity in the lineups. You start a totally new point guard. Then, he gets hurt. Another guy becomes eligible, but he will take some time. Horner is one of the energy guys off the bench, and he’s out today, so your rotation gets changed around again.

  6. PackGirl 01/05/2008 at 5:40 PM #

    We nearly got Hosed (someone had to say it).

  7. Trip 01/05/2008 at 5:47 PM #

    ShootingGuard,

    You’re right, I was thinking that while our point guards are not the best in the world, that they would be good enough to push tempo against basically a division 2 team. Johnson (Better half court offense guy IMO) didn’t get a lot of playing time, but that’s basically because the guy that he was defending was MAYBE 5’6 and he couldn’t stop penetration from that. Javi was needed because he’s just way more scrappy on defense than Johnson against such a small line up.

  8. redfred2 01/05/2008 at 6:00 PM #

    So, shoosting, what you’re basically saying is that we have a #2 guard that is an inconsistent, streaky shooter who cannot distribute the ball or score off of penetration.

    Funny, but he never draws one iotta of criticism around here.

  9. wufpup76 01/05/2008 at 6:06 PM #

    just got back …

    first, it was a win … THANK GOD

    it could have been an L

    today in the first half it wasn’t that we weren’t ready to play, more to the point WE PLAYED THEIR GAME …

    – our team still has close to zero concept of how to attack a zone … no dribble penetration; no outlet valve posted at the free throw line … our offense was content to sit back, pass it around the perimeter and take some bad shots … no attacking at all in the first half … even still, we wouldn’t play full court man-to-man or press and most importantly we wouldn’t even try to push the ball … we clearly would have had advantages if we tried to start a fast paced game … this speaks volumes about our young inexperienced point guards – the offense will only go as far as they will take it

    – give presbyterian credit, they stalled the game and their zone was very effective … of course, our offense has adopted the dreadful habit of making ANY zone defense very effective

    second half – many more positives

    – it was clear that the message was received to get the rebound and go when available … we actually started to draw fouls in the second half

    – rebounding was ok, defensive effort was fairly good … of course a big reason for the low score was presbyterian held nearly every possesion to the 5 second mark on the shot clock … and their zone

    – perhaps the most important thing that happened offensively today was that javi hit two wide open 3’s in a row early in the second half … javi also closed out today’s game and had his best game of the season to this point

    also to note, don’t blame sidney too much for the lack of jj’s productivity today … we just couldn’t get the ball to him against that zone … this is more on our perimeter players not effectively attacking a zone that anything else

    finally, to me i have been thinking that either wake forest or virginia tech (or perhaps maryland) were the weakest / worst teams in the league … IT IS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT WE ARE THE WORSE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE WHEN OTHER TEAMS PLAY ZONE DEFENSE AGAINSST US … there’s no other way to put it

    until we learn how to get teams out of a zone defense it is going to be a LONG season … it starts with the guards

    Thank God for the win … go pack

  10. werncstate 01/05/2008 at 6:15 PM #

    Benniebolton, JJ only got 4 shots because the Hose had 5 men guarding him. They played a very packed in zone and prayed for State to shoot the 3 which was quite effective especially in the first half. I took away only one positive from this game and that was the fact that someone must have told our guys that it was legal to try to poke the ball away from the guy they are defending. Haven’t seen the stat sheet but my guess would be we had more steals in this game than we’ve had all year.

  11. benniebolton 01/05/2008 at 6:25 PM #

    thanks werncstate, must’ve been a truly painful game to watch if they were packing it in that tight and we cannot move the ball against a zone like that to get good midrange looks (or couldn’t knock them down) I don’t know about ya’ll, but I have a hard time giving PC credit for anything, sounds like we just didn’t perform, which is what bothers me, not how a 1-19 team executes

  12. redfred2 01/05/2008 at 6:28 PM #

    Hey, I’m no 3 star point guard but I can run, chew chewing gum, and dribble at the same time. I can also pass the ball to someone who is in front of, beside, or trailing me on the basketball court. I can also make more lay ups than I miss. Just like ^Superstuff” said up there, I do not understand the restraints Lowe is putting on these kids or why he allows them to play soooo s l o w and deliberately.

    If someone has figured how that deliberate style, that btw is clearly taking away the point guard’s ability to think on his feet, is going to help later or in pressure situations when everything isn’t scripted, please let know. There may be some strategy behind it, but I’d really love to hear a different opinion that could give me some hope right now.

  13. Wulfpack 01/05/2008 at 6:32 PM #

    It’s clear this team will play to the level of its opponent, no matter who it is. That’s all about leadership, both on the floor and from the coaches. I don’t think we have a leader and I don’t think we have a coach that has a “get after them” style. He’s a “fatherly” figure.

    I understand that is his style. But tell that to Jim Calhoun, or coach K, or countless others who have won championships.

    And I don’t care if he says they gave a “good effort”. I saw it with my very own eyes and they most certainly did not. That was inexcusable, just like ECU and New Orleans. We play like that in the ACC and we will be a doormat. That much we all know.

    Get your asses in gear NOW or NIT here we come again.

  14. redfred2 01/05/2008 at 6:36 PM #

    9:34 left in the half, and the VCU Rams have matched our first half scoring output against the UNCW Seahawks.

  15. benniebolton 01/05/2008 at 6:37 PM #

    what happened to the fire from late last year, Sid refuses to acknowledge the obvious problems this team has. I don’t get it and it’s getting old. There is too much talent on this team, didn’t Sid say before last season he was looking forward to letting them play, what the hell happened to that?

  16. redfred2 01/05/2008 at 6:38 PM #

    NIT???

    Let’s not count our chickens just yet Wulfpack.

  17. benniebolton 01/05/2008 at 6:39 PM #

    I remember watching the Sidney Lowe show after the ECU loss and my jaw dropping at how nonchalant he was about that loss. I wondered if it was just for tv, or hoped at least it was, but I want to see some intensity out of somebody

  18. Wulfpack 01/05/2008 at 6:42 PM #

    ^54 and 57 — UNC’s second half output against Valpo and Nevada, respectively. Team’s we know that are better than the “Blue Hose”.

  19. wesley 01/05/2008 at 7:00 PM #

    “I’m happy with the way the team’s playing,” Grant said.

    Is this a nightmare? It almost feels like the twilight zone. Do they not understand that things are going to get ALOT tougher?

    One week left… im scared, anyone else?

  20. packgrad2000 01/05/2008 at 7:08 PM #

    I played high school basketball at a small school. I bet 10 of us here could suit up and play this team close. I’ve never seen a team play down to the competition so badly.

  21. Trip 01/05/2008 at 7:25 PM #

    I can’t dribble worth a damn with my left hand, I have no vertical whatsoever, I could maybe play 20 minutes before giving out and collapsing on the ground, but I can hit some 3’s… can I suit up for this SFN BB team?

  22. doug74 01/05/2008 at 8:11 PM #

    I was there today, had good seats. We do play big ugly basketball and it is hard to watch against these small zone teams but big has an upside as well. Our defensive length makes it hard for them to get off good shots even though it looks like they’re moving better. We may not blow out anyone but I don’t see anyone else blowing us out either, not even Carolina. I was pumped when Javi hit 2 threes in a row, I think that loosened things up. If he and MJ can do just a little more of that we will look a lot different. We didn’t hit anything the first half and 1 foul was called. It was weird.

  23. redfred2 01/05/2008 at 8:17 PM #

    ^Um, does the name Michigan State ring any bells?

  24. redfred2 01/05/2008 at 8:36 PM #

    From gopack:

    “The low-scoring, fast-played game was unusual, especially since the Wolfpack (10-3) wasn’t whistled for its first foul until just 12:50 remained on the clock. For the entire game, head coach Sidney Lowe’s team committed just five fouls against Presbyterian’s deliberate, ball-control offense.”

    What the hell is that?

    It’s like I said, and was disagreed with earlier in the season, fouls are part of the game, just like dribbling. But that’s only when you’re forcing the issue.

  25. choppack1 01/05/2008 at 8:39 PM #

    I didn’t see or listen to the game, but the fact that this game was close was about as surpising as Dan Morgan leaving a Panthers game w/ a concussion.

    We appear to have gone from a coach who treated every equally – and thus came up short in a lot of big games 4 a coach who thinks some games are A LOT bigger than others.

    He’s right, of course. However, it’s fairly bothersome when you can’t blow out a team that YTD has 1 win.

    If we somehow make the NCAA tourney or if the guys Sidney brings in take each game a little more seriously, this game won’t really register in our memory. Unfortunately, there is no fire from this team against the “mid-majors” or “minors”. I guess that having fun thing is either taking place somewhere other than the b’ball court for these games or just isn’t happening. If I was wearing a State jersey, this performance and the ones against WCU, NO, and ECU would embarass me.

    Finally, this staff brought in 6 players. You’d think that out of one of those 6, they’d look for a good shooter AND good ballhandler. While they don’t grow on trees, it’s probably easier to find a 2G w/ a decent handle and good outside shot than it is to find any other Division 1A b’ball player. Right now, the lack of a 2G to backup Fells and loosen up D’s is sorely evident. As someone else noted, we have exactly one player on the whole team who can create his own shot.

    I won’t get too upset over this. Sadly, I expected a close game since we were playing the best 1 win team in America. This team has been turning up a notch against the teams from the big conferences…Hopefully, we can scratch out 8 or 9 wins vs. mediocre teams like FSU, Wake, GaTech, BC, UVa, VaTech, Miami, and UMd. But to do that, we’ll have to take those games a little more seriously than we took them year.

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