Pack Plays Well For an ENTIRE HALF! (Duke 92, NC State 72)

And naturally, we end the game down twenty and in complete surrender mode on defense. Have some pride to wear the uniform, and at least hit somebody if you don’t want to get into defensive or rebounding position. But don’t stand there holding your junk while a guy drives for an uncontested layup.

Not that I’m surprised, mind you. But that doesn’t stop me from being pissed.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

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146 Responses to Pack Plays Well For an ENTIRE HALF! (Duke 92, NC State 72)

  1. Classof89 02/01/2008 at 11:23 AM #

    Funny, when I was in school in the late 80s (NCAA all four years, Elite eight two of them), I NEVER heard state fans whining about refereeing, with the exception of (1) the phantom traveling call on corchiani in the Georgetown Elite Eight game and (2) UNC (since Dean Smith occupied the position that Coach K has assumed).

    These days, I constantly hear it, which leads me to conclude that whining about officiating is for losers, which our athletics program definitely is right now…

  2. Manu Ginobili 02/01/2008 at 11:33 AM #

    My first post at Statefans. I read all comments and I can see that about half blame the refs and the other half just thinks the opposite. I don’t blame the refs entirely, but when you are up by 9 at the half and right from the 20 min mark on the second your opponent PG starts making anything he throws, all of a sudden soccer rules applies to basketball, you start getting against you all possible BS calls you can get, I think that at that point, you are going to be frustrated. Anyone who played competitive sports at some point, knows that when not only playing against a better opponent, but also against whoever is officiating, you are going to be frustrated. It takes a very mature and experimented team to overcome that frustration. It was obvious that Coach K was going to tell their players to play rough in the second half, he had been outscored, outplayed and outcoached for the last two halves and an OT against the Pack (remember last year ACCT?). He couldn’t take any more of that, it was too much for his arrogance. And yeah, combine Dook’s play in the second half, with our inexperience, frustration and simply less talent, and you have a recipe for disaster. I believe this team will get better though. We went from being a D-III school against Carolina, to play competitively against Duke for 20 minutes. People, just leave your pessimism for better times.

  3. choppack1 02/01/2008 at 11:34 AM #

    Class of 89 – The more one loses, the more one complains. But everyone complains about the officiaiting when things aren’t going there way. If you don’t believe it, watch a game w/ a UNC fan. I mean, if you win a game do you give a tinker’s damn about the officiating? Hell, no. Some of us – just want the game to be more fair than if officials weren’t out there. I fall into this category. I think that the officiating last night was a factor in the first 30 minutes.

    I think what really adds to the frustration is that this team couldn’t handle the adversity. They actually handled it very well in the first half when some calls went against us. In the second half, they fell apart.

    Like I said – our guys need to man up. Watch this game and say, how can we avoid this crap again. Of course, we’ve seen our teams wilt in Cameron a lot. In 2002, I was in the Bahamas, we played Duke and were a 16 point dog. I bet on the Pack – my wife, free of emotion bet on the Devils (smart woman,she.) We got worked that game and it was never as close as this one.

    What can we learn from that game? That we can still get our crap together. However, we need to hurry.

  4. foz 02/01/2008 at 11:36 AM #

    While blaming the outcome soley on officiating is not an accurate assesment, it is equally inaccurate to state that officiating did not influence the game at all.

  5. EverettBeez 02/01/2008 at 11:41 AM #

    excellent points RAWFS.

    We needed a miracle to win last night. The first half only raised our expectations and made loosing all the more painful – but the outcome was exactly we all expected.

    I saw some good things, though almost exclusively in the first half – Javi appears to grow in confidence with every game. He needs to start. Big Ben and BC both played well in the first, and for goodness sakes, we controlled the boards in the 1st. We need to build on that.

    The ref’s actually seemed shaken from their dook induced trance after Paulis’ cheap foul. But the call on Javi, what 30 seconds into the 2nd, just disrupted us badly. We should be able to weather it, but we didn’t – at least not yet.

    And a bunch of guys checked out, and headed home about half way through the 2nd. That’s inexcusable.

    So – bring on Wake, at home. I didn’t count dook in the win total, so we are exactly where I thought we’d be. Lets hold home court.

  6. Mr O 02/01/2008 at 11:44 AM #

    Don’t even want to discuss the game. But I was able to go to Cameron last night for the first time since the McD AA game when Julius Hodge was a Sr. in HS.

    Cameron has to be the most overrated sporting event experience in the country. It is less impressive than Reynolds from the outside and lacks the character of Reynolds inside. Exact same designs except for Reynolds extended end zones.

    I also went to the UNC/State game at the Dean Dome. IMO, the Dean Dome is a much more impressive experience overall. I have also been to Little John, Alexander Memorial, U Hall, and Joel Coliseum. I liked GT’s arena and U Hall better.

    If Duke didn’t have a dynasty of a program, then nobody would talk about Cameron Indoor Stadium as being one of the top venues in all of sports.

  7. nycfan 02/01/2008 at 11:47 AM #

    BTW, sorry to get side-tracked on the John Wall comment.

    As for the game last night, the first half was by far the best State has played all year, and that is with Fells looking a little discombobulated at times.

    I was perplexed that State started the second half in a 2-3 zone … it played right into what Dook wanted to do offensively. Maybe Lowe was trying to protect against early foul trouble(??) but the 2-3 zone is not the zone of choice against three-point shooting teams, too many holes around th perimeter. Plus, I would argue that State’s guards didn’t just go under the screens, they stopped dead when they hit the screens, giving Dook too many open looks in the gaps of the zone.

  8. Rick 02/01/2008 at 11:50 AM #

    I am not surprised Noah is back after a loss. He never posts after a win. Agenda? I think so.

    Is there a trio of bigger punks thank Schyer, Paulus and Singler? It maeks me agree with the goon scenario. I say put someone in to body them up.

  9. BillyVest 02/01/2008 at 11:53 AM #

    The only call that really bothered me was Grant getting a clean block in the second half, when we were down by 11 and it being called a foul, putting a Dukie on the line. Instead of cutting the lead to 9 and getting moment we were down by thirteen and the wind really got sucked out of our sails.

    Not sure what went on at half time, but anyone should know ANY home team will come out and play hard, when they are trailing, especially a well coached team like Duke. The fact we weren’t ready for it is disappointing.

    What hurt us in the second half was our poor defensive effort and the lack of someone on offense, who could step up and make shots or at least settle the team down, when Duke was going to make an early run, which you know is coming. Javi getting into early foul trouble hurt, since Johnson wasn’t playing well last night.

    As far as the future goes, I don’t know if Hickson’s going pro or not. He has some positives, but he’s still very raw and has srtuggled, at times, against ACC caliber players. He doesn’t have the athleticism of a Brandon Wright, for example, and lacks the bulk of Erlton Brand (who isn’t much taller than Hickson, but probably out weighs him by a lot), so he will have to show better fundamental skills if he plans on sticking around in the NBA. I don’t see why a team would spend a high draft pick on him, for him to work on refining his game. He just don’t see what his upside would be, for the NBA game. He finishes well enough around the basket, but he’s a long way from being “automatic” like Boozer was, and Boozer was a second round pick, and he’s a good, but not dominating rebounder at the college level. I can see and expect Hickson to go pro after his sophomore year, but I don’t see it after this year.

    As far as people complaining about Mays, he’s one of the top five players in the state of Indiana and has a legit shot at being Mr. Basketball this year. Not sure why he’s not ranked higher, but I don’t think he’ll be a dud. Javi’s becoming a productive player and he isn’t nearly as highly rated coming out of high school.

    I’m not surprised we got crushed in the second half. I sort of expected it. What I hope is the team takes some confidence out of the first half and works to overcome their mistakes.

    After the up and down nature of this year, I all I really want to see is improvement.

  10. BillyVest 02/01/2008 at 12:03 PM #

    Regarding the Wall comments. Costner will be here at the start of the 2009 program, unless he transfers or decides to go pro. He was redshirted his freshman year and is a sophomore this year. Our roster in ’09 will be Seniros – Costner, Degand, Johnson, Horner, Ferguson; Juniors – Gonzalez, Smith, Hickson(if he’s back); Sophomores – Thomas (redshirt), Mays, CJ Williams; Feshman – Scott Wood and (????)

  11. CarnifeX 02/01/2008 at 12:04 PM #

    I wish Costner had thrown that punch.

  12. BillyVest 02/01/2008 at 12:07 PM #

    I wish the Dukie got an intentional foul called, since he whacked him on the head first and went for the ball second.

  13. nycfan 02/01/2008 at 12:10 PM #

    That’s right, I keep forgetting Costner is just a sophomore.

  14. highstick 02/01/2008 at 12:15 PM #

    I do not blame the loss on the officials last night. We played like crap in the second half.

    However, there is a sanctioning body called the NCAA that writes the rules of basketball. When a league, such as the ACC, hires officials that either don’t know the rules, are incompetent, or don’t care about the rules, that’s a different story! If Roy and K dictate to the officials, the league, and to the NCAA that their teams are not subject to the written rules of the game, that’s pure BS! It’s called a fix!

    Did anyone see K’s filthy mouth last night in the first half? He was giving one of the ref’s pure hell and damnation over a correct call that he didn’t like. So much for fine upstanding builders of character like K!

    I know a lot of you guys say “let ’em play”! That’s BS too if you don’t play within the established rules. Otherwise it’s just a “playground game” without a 9mm to enforce the rules!

    We didn’t lose because of the refs. We just flat didn’t play well enough in the 2nd half. But I saw very little character in those fine upstanding Duke players flopping all over the floor, slapping, and physically intimidating the players, and smirking at the officials!

  15. boonami 02/01/2008 at 12:17 PM #

    there were several plays were Dook (Paulus and Nelson in particular) were throwing elbows and grabbing our guys; no call. and then a couple of flop jobs ala Battier, and we get called. like a previous post said. It’s not the amount of fouls but the timing.. killed a momentum big time. For the Noah’s of the world who are still in love with Sendek, move to ‘Zona and pull for them. We have Sid, give the man support. If after 5+ years of no apparent improvement, then you can rightly complain. We can be pissed about losing, but let us give Sid time to get his players in here and see what he can do.

  16. Otis 02/01/2008 at 12:27 PM #

    All this talk of goons. Did any one notice the hard foul that Harris gave on the Duke end of the court just after Paulus’ 1st hard foul on Costner. I really wish he had been on the court more for the second half. He is so strong, and not afraid to give the hard foul. We really needed him on the court more of the time.

  17. redfred2 02/01/2008 at 12:40 PM #

    All I can say is that we did come ut in the second half. BUT, when the refs who are totally out of position and can’t even see the play are continually making calls that nullify every good and aggressive move you make on defense, it becomes disheartening. There were 2 fouls and 4 FT’s given to Duke at the end of the first half that were called on good defensive plays.

    Plus, Duke shot poorly to begin with, and then lights out in the second half. They had a great second half. We can’t beat them at Cameron Indoor when they don’t miss and the ref’s are calling their typical BS, and almost no team in country could.

    Except for Fells’ not playing well last night, I saw a good first half of BB that should help everyone later on.

  18. choppack1 02/01/2008 at 12:42 PM #

    Otis – I don’t understand why he disappeared in the 2nd half. I think he played great in the 1st last night.

  19. packgrad93 02/01/2008 at 12:47 PM #

    ^ he was only in to guard Nelson since Fells & Grant had 2 fouls each 1st half.

  20. redfred2 02/01/2008 at 12:50 PM #

    ^^Harris was also fighting and in position for the miss more often than most of the other players. He had a great follow up slam, but the officials, inadvertently, called a foul on Duke that nullified the shot.

  21. choppack1 02/01/2008 at 1:15 PM #

    Yes packgrad93 – and we were much better w/ him than w/ fells in there. Fells had another ADD game.

  22. packgrad93 02/01/2008 at 1:24 PM #

    he could guard Nelson about as well as Horner.

  23. packbackr04 02/01/2008 at 1:36 PM #

    Unnecessary — SFN

  24. Rochester 02/01/2008 at 1:38 PM #

    Two calls that I didn’t see anyone mention:

    1. BS 5-second call on Javi. (I think he had a legit one shortly before this.) In the replay on ESPN2 you could see he established separation about 3 seconds in, then started in toward the hoop and got called. Len Elmore said he got robbed.

    2. ESPN2 also showed a couple of replays of Grant’s clean block of a Henderson (or maybe Nelson) shot. Grant came away with the ball, and a BS foul for his efforts.

    I think the officiating took a cumulative toll that as much as the flurry of amazingly lucky wide-open 3-balls just cost our team its poise in the second half. Lame to see them almost all fold, but it’s got to be frustrating to get jobbed by the refs every other possession.

    I suspect Fells’ bricked dunk might have knocked him off his stride more than anything else. Still, his one-handed snatch steal was awesome. I’ve never seen anything like that.

    My hatred for Duke and that b*tch Paulus reached a new height last night. I expect a different game when they come to Raleigh. Of course, I think we’d fare better in the games at Duke if we played there every year. Grant was the only one with any significant experience on that court. Maybe it’s no surprise that he was one of the few to not be bothered by it.

  25. wolfonthehill 02/01/2008 at 2:27 PM #

    ^ Agreed. I think the “don’t blame it on the refs” crowd would be stunned if someone would take the time to go through the game, play by play, and even add up the DIRECT impact of poor calls… in this game, it was somewhere between 10 & 20 points.

    Add to that the mental toll it takes when you know you can’t play aggressive defense, while you’re going to get raped at the offensive end, and I’ll state as clearly as I can that I believe we have a 50/50 shot of winning this game if it’s evenly officiated. It would’ve come down to the last couple possessions, at which point I’d happily take my chances.

    The officials ensured that such a thing didn’t happen.

    You do NOT have to beat a team by 21… you have to beat them by 1. Last night, we would’ve had to beat Duke by 11-21 legitimate points – on their homecourt, to win that game. That’s simply wrong.

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