Making Sense of the ACC

ESPN.com’s expanded ACC standings.

I probably should have added a question mark to the title, because it’s a difficult task. One thing is abundantly clear – Duke and UNC are significantly better than everyone else. I expect them both to be no worse than #2 seeds in the NCAAT. Damn it.

After that, it’s less clear. My gut has always said that Clemson is the third “good” team, but we have a statistically significant sample to analyze now. The Tigers are 0-2 in conference on the road, and only 3-3 overall (despite having played 4 home games). Perhaps more alarming is that Clemson needed overtime to hold off Wake and Florida State at home. Boston College is 3-2, but it’s hard to take them seriously after a home loss to Virginia Tech. The Eagles have also yet to face UNC, Duke, or Clemson.

Several teams were projected as possible/likely doormats this season, most notably Miami, Wake, and Virginia Tech. All 3 have exceeded expectations so far, especially the Hokies – who already have two road wins in the conference. Thus, I think one can make a fair argument that very little separates teams 3-12 in the ACC.

How does this affect the post-season chase? Well, it depends on how everything shakes out. Even assuming UNC and Duke max out at 15-1 and 14-2, respectively (which is unlikely, but possible), that leaves a total of 67 wins for the other 10 teams to divvy up, for a median figure of 6.7. Certainly, there will eventually be some separation, with at least a few teams reaching 8 or 9 ACC wins.

But what if those few happen to be teams like Virginia Tech, Maryland, and Georgia Tech – all of whom had very poor OOC results? Those teams might need at least 9 conference wins to be comfortable on Selection Sunday. In a parity-filled ACCT, you could also have 5-11 or 6-10 teams in the semifinals, rather than legitimate bubble teams. In such a jumbled scenario, the most balanced (and I would say best) conference in the nation could end up with only 3 or 4 NCAAT bids, and a whole slew of high NIT seeds.

How does this affect the Pack? In my view, it still looks like 5-11 or 6-10. State’s remaining schedule includes 3 games that we would lose 99 times out of 100 – vs. UNC, vs. Duke, at Duke. The matchups are just awful for the Pack. That leaves 8 other “toss up” games, of which we would likely win no more than half. If you believe (as I do) that luck tends to even out over time, we are likely due for some bad bounces of the ball after fortunate endings against Miami and FSU. That makes 6-10 look more like a ceiling than a projection. Of course, I am also a raging pessimist, so take what I say at face value.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball

67 Responses to Making Sense of the ACC

  1. Rick 01/30/2008 at 8:01 AM #

    Is it me or is Wake a better coached team?

    It looks to me like BC has simply quit. I wish I knew what was going on there.

  2. CarnifeX 01/30/2008 at 8:38 AM #

    I feel like we are going to lose tomorrow to a Princeton style offense (you know, the style that can’t win, right?). I’m sure theres irony in there somewhere.

    Its down there somewhere, let me take another look.

  3. zahadum 01/30/2008 at 9:31 AM #

    Here’s a stat I never thought I’d see. Would you believe that, in conference games only, Gavin Grant is 5th in the league in assist to turnover ratio?

    Talk about a sign of the apocalypse.

  4. Rick 01/30/2008 at 9:42 AM #

    “I feel like we are going to lose tomorrow to a Princeton style offense (you know, the style that can’t win, right?). I’m sure theres irony in there somewhere. ”

    Are you purposely mistating everyone’s opinions?
    Here are a few of the blunders in your post
    1) No one said it “cannot win”. The ascertion was that it cannot win a championship because it was so contingent on the tree and its inherent fickle nature. So far that statement is correct.
    2) I have said many times it could not win consistently as Herb ran it. His offense looked nothing like what Duke and Georgetown do. They spread the floor to make space for driving and post ups. Herb just passed the ball around the perimeter until they could hoist a three.
    3) I (being one of hte most outspoken critics of the PO) havbe amended my view on the PO. I believe it can win a championship if run how GU runs it. While still dependent on the three they drive and feed the big man. I think Dukes lack of post play makes them to vulnerable to a bad shooting night to win a championship. And no way it would do anything but squeek into the tourney in the “weave and heave” format we used.

  5. wufpup76 01/30/2008 at 10:36 AM #

    “Is it me or is Wake a better coached team?”

    – wake is definitely a better team this season, but i’m not sure i’d give all the credit to guadio … teague and johnson have really performed well (mostly) as freshmen … wake is definitely a lot stronger defensively under gaudio, but i’ve seen them play several times this season and their offense has really been a mess at times – even w/ an experience point guard in smith … they should’ve absolutely lost at home to va. tech and smith bailed them out; they almost collapsed completely last night against miami when it looked like they had a win in hand and smith bailed them out again … so the jury’s still out for me on gaudio

    “I think Duke’s lack of post play makes them to vulnerable to a bad shooting night to win a championship.”

    – i absolutely agree w/ this statement … duke is a good team … but you don’t have to go back too far to see what happened when they played a good defensive team w/ quality big men (pitt) … duke jumped out on them but pitt’s defense really bogged down duke’s offensive sets in the game and pitt didn’t allow duke to escape w/ transition play … that’s a recipe for sucess against duke … (of course pitt had their starting pg and power forward for that game both of which are out now with injuries) …

    in my opinion, duke will wind up seeded entirely too high, win easy in the first round, play a close one in the second round, and bow out to somebody like michigan state in the sweet sixteen or elite 8 when the refs don’t allow them to grab, clutch, and hand check all night and then – heaven forbid – they actually have to play non-football defense … duke also gets frustrated by actually having to perform on offense when they can’t get out in transition … i don’t see a final 4 in their future this season

  6. Wait_Til_This_Year 01/30/2008 at 10:51 AM #

    Miami and FSU both lost last night to teams we have yet to play (WF and VT). Although both games were on the road for Miami and FSU, it’s just another sign that things may only get tougher.

  7. Trip 01/30/2008 at 1:53 PM #

    ^^^ Just more evidence that #3-12 in the ACC is one big jumbled mess. The only thing we can hope for is that teams like WF/VT can upset Duke/UNC which, since Duke/UNC are seen as invincible, would show that the ACC is indeed as strong as it’s ever been and that we deserve more than 4-5 bids. If Duke/UNC steamroll the ACC then it’ll only strengthen the argument that the ACC is in a down year.

  8. packgrad93 01/30/2008 at 3:22 PM #

    “They spread the floor to make space for driving and post ups. ”

    Just like Herb did.

  9. JeremyH 01/30/2008 at 3:42 PM #

    Trip, the point is if someone does not “float to the top” by seasons end, the 3-12 teams will have ended up canceled out each other, giving none of them hope for a tourney card. in that same vein, the only team i want to see upset Duke/UNC is us, because the other 3-12 are our competition for the 3rd and maybe irrelevant 4th spot. If we have improved significantly, then pulling AT LEAST one upset is necessary to stop the media badmouthing of us (which serves as a microcosm for the badmouthing of the entire ACC).

  10. Rick 01/30/2008 at 4:24 PM #

    “Just like Herb did.”

    Thanks for the laugh

  11. JeremyH 01/30/2008 at 4:29 PM #
  12. werncstate 01/30/2008 at 7:10 PM #

    ^I loved the Hodge quotes. I had forgotten a lot of those. When is the Dook thread going to get started? Less than 26 hours before tip. What’s the hold up SFN?

  13. JeremyH 01/30/2008 at 8:12 PM #

    the calm before the storm

  14. wufpup76 01/30/2008 at 11:43 PM #

    not sure this is great or not, but it is at least encouraging … gary parrish of cbssports.com has nc state in as the very last team in his field

    http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10609144

    at least we’re on the radar (of some folks, anyway)

    parrish has us in just ahead of seton hall based on our victory up in new jersey … that win COULD pay big dividends on a certain Sunday in march …

    also tonight, seton hall wins @ rutgers in OT, and cincy DESTROYS huggins and west virginia by 23 AT west virginia … hello!

    cincy now has 5 big east confrence wins and each one makes our victory over them that much more important …

    all hope may not be lost just yet!

    go wolfpack 🙂

  15. wufpup76 01/30/2008 at 11:59 PM #

    ^also to note, rider is in first in the MAAC – which has a few other decent teams in siena, niagra, and marist … if rider could continue playing well and hopefully finish first in the MAAC that could potentially help us … go rider!

    of course, we wouldn’t necessarily have to pull for seton hall, cincy, rider, davidson, and nova if we would just win most of 11 remaining games 🙂

  16. Dr. BadgerPack 01/31/2008 at 8:36 AM #

    wolfpup- don’t forget, those other teams winning would not only help us make the field, it could affect seeding as well.

  17. packgrad93 01/31/2008 at 10:02 AM #

    “Thanks for the laugh”

    sorry you couldn’t see it for the hate.

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