GT 77, NC State 74

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball168

Boxscore. Tough loss. Good game.

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07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball

168 Responses to GT 77, NC State 74

  1. Ed89 01/24/2008 at 1:19 PM #

    it doesn’t have anything to do with our players on the bench, it’s the ones playing that need to step. personally, you can’t have enough of the ferguson’s, chad williams’, clayton beard’s, etc., we just need the costners of our team to step it up. btw, i did see that coach lowe yanked costner about 2 minutes into the game when he played his infamous phantom defense. it’s not so much that costner is not hitting his shot, but he’s lazy, and truthfully, even if he wasn’t lazy, he is not very athletic. plain and simple, even if his shot starts falling, although it will help our team, i don’t see him in the nba — somewhere in europe maybe. fells, on the other hand could play in the nba if he learns to take defenders off the dribble. who cares if he can pass – when was the last time someone was drafted because they could pass? ced simmons, i think.

  2. BJD95 01/24/2008 at 1:32 PM #

    23 – I’m just calling a spade a spade. I didn’t say I wouldn’t watch, cheer for victories, or hope my assessment is wrong. But I calls ’em likes I see ’em. That’s not going to change. Explains why I blog for SFN, and don’t write for gopack.com.

    I am sick and tired of all the sucking and quasi-sucking. Maybe the Top 25 was unreasonable, but expecting us to show up against our arch-rival and beat a second division ACC foe at home most certainly IS reasonable. Clemson goes to OT at home against so-so Florida State and Wake. Beats us in a laugher.

    We are a LONG way from respectable, let alone GOOD. And it pisses me off.

    I would agree re benching Costner, but who do you turn to? Smith isn’t ready for a 25-30 minute role. McCauley has been markedly worse this season, as has Horner. Simon Harris is 6’5″ and functionally, a walk-on.

  3. Rick 01/24/2008 at 1:42 PM #

    In all honesty, our guard play is not far from where I thought it would be at this point, especially given the injury.
    What is off is the rest of the players. If BC gave a darn, if McCauley played liek the smart player he is. If Horner could shoot again.
    IMO it is the rest of these things that are really dragging the team down.

  4. choppack1 01/24/2008 at 1:47 PM #

    A better question is why have 4 of our top 6 players gotten worse over the off-season. There is no evidence whatsoever that any of these guys improved their basketball weaknesses or their body.

  5. choppack1 01/24/2008 at 2:01 PM #

    It’s like that episode of the White Shadow when everybody on the team comes back tanned and out of shape, acting like they didn’t see a basketball the entire break.

  6. dbc90 01/24/2008 at 2:02 PM #

    “A better question is why have 4 of our top 6 players gotten worse over the off-season. There is no evidence whatsoever that any of these guys improved their basketball weaknesses or their body”.

    —-

    Well said choppack1 … Ben is scared to put up a shot … Gavin can’t dribble in traffic, actually can’t handle the rock whatsoever … BC plays likes he’s smoked the Ganja … Fells can jump and shoot but that’s it … as far as DHorn, last years success was shear luck IMO … I was @ State from ’85 to ’90 and always thought V’s teams underachieved … my how I miss those days now …

    I was happy for Javi “Corch” Gonzalez last night until he put up the wide left airball.

    Better days will come.

  7. BJD95 01/24/2008 at 2:09 PM #

    We’ve been talking about better days ever since the phantom travelling call on Corch against Georgetown. I’m still waiting.

  8. Wulfpack 01/24/2008 at 2:15 PM #

    “if McCauley played like the smart player he is.”

    If McCauley played, period…

  9. triadwolf 01/24/2008 at 2:17 PM #

    I hope this is like the Newhart show finale, when he wakes up and discovers it was just a bad dream. I was there during some of V’s good years and can at least remember how it used to be. But sometimes I think I’d be better off not knowing any better and living in ignorance and bliss. All I know is this has been one LONG ass bad dream!

  10. partialqualifier 01/24/2008 at 2:19 PM #

    Not saying Ben has played great this season…or even good for that matter. But he has a very high basketball IQ on a team with none to speak of. He rebounds, defends, and passes better than Costner. He hustles more. Is he as good a scorer? Probably not. But there are 10-12 minutes a game where Costner dosent take/make a shot and turns the ball over every other time he touches it. My argument is that when you are playing a guy who really only does one thing well….and he quits doing that well…why the hell play him over the guy that does a lot of little things well. Costner got what….12 or so points? How many did he give up with turnovers, poor rebounding, and atrocious D? 20,25? Hell, maybe more. So even tho he outscore Ben….we were minus 13 or so with his “production” for the game.

    Finally, I would like to see Ben’s production if he got Costner minutes night in and night out instead of getting 5 mins here and 4 mins there. I guarantee he wouldnt be minus 13!

  11. dbc90 01/24/2008 at 2:37 PM #

    Ben is afraid to take a shot other than a dunk or lay-up … Javi stepped up last night by taking shots and by god some of them went in … I’m a huge Ben fan but he needs to be more assertive … how about JJ getting so many shots blocked?

  12. nycfan 01/24/2008 at 2:40 PM #

    Some random thoughts …

    * we had an extended discussion b/4 the Carolina game about State’s opening stretch of 6 conference games (4 on the road, including at UNC, Clemson & Dook), and how 3-3 would actually put State in solid position, 2-6 seemed more likely and anything worse would put State behind the 8-ball going into the last 10 games (6 at home, 4 on the road). Well, the close GaT loss puts State in the position of having to win at FSU, but I think, right now, State, GaT, FSU, VPI & UVa, at the very least, probably also Miami and WFU, are all but indistinguishable, and any of them can be expected to beat the other home or away any night. So winning at FSU does not seem particularly outlandish in light of State’s recent improvement.

    IF State can win that game, they are back on a reasonable track to work toward 8-8.

    * GaT has played some very good teams tough (@ Indiana, Kansas, UNC) and lost only one real head-scratcher (IMO) v. UNCG. Sure, they were 8-9 going into the game, but they are a significantly better team now than they were in November b/c their two PGs, esp. freshman Moe Miller, but also senior Causey, have really matured. They are also an almost absurdly physical team and I think State’s big men did not react very well to that.

    * Hickson’s defense is really being exploited in league play. He either gets off his feet on every head fake OR is thinking so hard about not doing so he fails to defend his man or execute help defense. For all his raw talent, his interior miscues are really hurting State right now (IMO).

    * A light may have gone on for Gonzalez v. GaT, but only on the drive. He and Johnson still seem almost helpless to run the offense. They are suffering the deer-in-headlight performances that Moe Miller, Stitt and other freshmen (including Degand) fought through in the OOC schedule. The difference has been an absolute killer for State.

    * I continue to be surprised by Costner’s lack of focus and/or hustle at times — he seems completely driven by whether his shots are going up and going in — and the random plays where State players take off/hang back to pout or complain rather than getting back on defense.

  13. Ed89 01/24/2008 at 2:52 PM #

    Ben needs to learn to shoot the 12-15 jumper. if he could do that it would open up some of his great post moves, imo. i have no idea why horner is scared to shoot the three. the whole team looks timid to me. i agree with someone from above that mentioned we just need to “play” and not look over to the coach during the middle of an offensive set. gavin also had several open threes last night that he passed up. he’s been shooting better, so i don’t know why he didn’t let it fly.

  14. choppack1 01/24/2008 at 3:12 PM #

    nycfan – Good post. I agree w/ you. GaTech has obviously improved it’s play lately. Somehow, they’ve hung w/ 2 of the top 3 teams in the country.

    I think what you are seeing from State fans here today is an overall malaise about the lack of development of our returning guys and our struggles at the PG spot. And we really don’t see much light at the end of the tunnell- we’ve allocated 3 scholarships to guards who have transferred from other major D1 programs – and it looks like all of them got “cut” because they can’t shoot, dribble or pass well enough to play at that level.

    Wake Forest, GaTech, UVa, FSU and others all seem to be better in the backcourt – and our front court isn’t nearly as good as we expected it to be. Also, in spite of their record, I’m still not sold on BC. I think they’ll end up in that same sub-group.

  15. BillyVest 01/24/2008 at 3:29 PM #

    choppack, the only guy who might’ve been “cut” was Johnson. Degand transfered after the coach, who recruited him was fired. Not sure why Ferguson decided to transfer out of Pitt, but from what I read he just didn’t like it there.

    As much as I’m sort of down about having scholarships locked up with some guys, we’d be in more of a mess this year if we didn’t have Degand, Gonzalez and Johnson on the roster this year.

    You can’t build a good image by losing and without those guys, we’d be in worse shape this year.

  16. redfred2 01/24/2008 at 3:33 PM #

    I’ve been away and I only read about 2/3 down the thread, but the things about the game that stand in my mind are…

    Costner (and others) not stepping out to receive the pass. To me, it seems they think they are more entitled to the ball than the other team’s defensive players, and they don’t work for it.

    No one moving or trying to create space on in bounds plays.

    Picking up the dribble.

    Bucky Waters echoing what I’ve been saying all along about Courtney Fells, how he needs to mix it up inside, especially being the best FT shooter on the team. In Waters’ words, speaking of Fells hesitation to be more active on the interior, “This game is not played a tuxedo young man”. Meaning that Fells ability is really limiting his own ability more than any defender he faces and not helping his teammates, by camping out behind the arch and not earning more scoring opportunities, or at least more trips to the FT line.

    Javi, he did make progress. Lets just hope that he builds on it and doesn’t allow that last shot to burn a hole in the back of his brain.

    Unreal officiating! It has really gotten out of hand of late. Causey is allowed to elbow and push Javi back two feet in order to get his shot off, then later they allow a continuation by JJ that would make any seasoned NBA’er blush. It is PIT TEE FULL! Then, to make matters worse, Len Elmore the former ACC player, contradicts his collegues and backs the terrible officiating up with some total BS explanation of the call.

    Um, Lenny Boy, it wasn’t that way when you played at Maryland and THERE HAVE BEEN NO REVISIONS TO THE RULEOOK SINCE! The rule in college basketball is the same as it always was…the ball must be leaving the player’s hand in order for the basket to count.

  17. zahadum 01/24/2008 at 3:42 PM #

    Some musings on the enigma that is Brandon Costner. I’ve noted that some fans, although not necessarily ones on here, seem to be fixated on his 3 pt shooting. But the fact is that prior to last night, his 3 pt % was only just a tad below what he shot last year. What’s been killing him, scoring wise, is his 2 pt %. Last year it was 54%, this year it’s a frigid 41%.

    Now we’ve speculated at length on what the causes of his trouble might be, both mental and physical. But one thing I’ve seen that’s fact vs. speculation is that he has no lift this year. The same shots in the paint that he would get off and hit a high percentage of last year are getting rejected right back in his face this year.

    One play last night kind of summed it up. Don’t recall exactly when it occured, but it was 1st half. He got a pass just left of the key when his defender was a little out of postion, drove the lane and was fouled on the shot. Last year, he not only makes that shot but he jams it with authority.

  18. boonami 01/24/2008 at 3:44 PM #

    One of the most telling things about last night and for the season for BC was when he was at the top of the key, received a pass, when through his hands and the GT took it in for a slam. That’s just plain lazy, lack of concentration; something he’s had all season.

  19. Ed89 01/24/2008 at 3:52 PM #

    zahadum, i think you and boonami are correct. adding to that is that the guy just isn’t very athletic. i think one thing is that the acc teams have had a year to scout him. he’s not going to take very many people off the dribble. if he does, he’s going left. he can not (at all) go right, so if you take away his going left he forces up bad shots or gets them rejected. plus, whether it’s the injury or laziness, he just looks out of shape.

  20. RabidWolf 01/24/2008 at 3:55 PM #

    “as well as javi played the white kid ate him up ”

    The ONLY thing ‘that white kid’ kept doing was pushing off and getting away with it…last time I checked…that was an offensive foul. Not just pushing off..holding off with the forearm.

  21. redfred2 01/24/2008 at 4:27 PM #

    He’s not outrageous or overwhelmingly athletic, but I disagree with most of what is being about BC’s atheticism. He can, and did, take people off the dribble last season. Hell, he practically played the point, handled the ball competently, and brought the ball up the court much more than he should have last season.

    Admittedly, he’s having trouble and he may be struggling right now, but he has more than average athleticism for a player of his size.

  22. zahadum 01/24/2008 at 4:33 PM #

    Redfred2, you’re right about Elmore blowing that explanation. The only way Hickson’s shot should have counted was if he was ruled as not being an airborne shooter, which of course he was.

    Another one the announcers (and most fans) almost always get wrong is that in college ball it is not traveling to catch your own airball.

  23. packbackr04 01/24/2008 at 4:33 PM #

    i looked at costner on the bench last night and i could just see him thinking to himself….. “mmmmmm jelly dougnuts”

  24. packbackr04 01/24/2008 at 4:36 PM #

    it would be nice if sid would do a little full metal jacket on Costner….

    Sid.. “AND WHY CANT YOU EAT JELLY DOUGHNUTS COSTNER??!!>!>”

    Costner: shrugs

    Sid: “BECAUSE YOURE A DUSGUSTING FAT BODY! COSTNER!”

    and then later that night all of the players sneak in his room and beat the shit out of him with soap wrapped up in towels….

    i bet that would get his fat ass on a treadmill

  25. choppack1 01/24/2008 at 4:42 PM #

    Why blame Costner – he’s doing what he’s done all year. Why expect anything different?

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