GT 77, NC State 74

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball168

Boxscore. Tough loss. Good game.

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07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball

168 Responses to GT 77, NC State 74

  1. Rick 01/24/2008 at 8:02 AM #

    “How much extra would it cost the ACC to get some decent officials? I swear, I think Bob Knight was right years ago; officials have money on games. Some calls make absolutely no sense unless you think of them in terms of keeping a margin safe. And I’m talking about on both sides of the floor. Hickson’s three-point play was just as much BS as was GT’s five-steps-without-a-dribble before the foul that preceded it. ”

    Agreed – the twerp had his Paulus elbow in full effect. My wife asked me how they (the refs) can do that with all of those people watching. I did not have an answer.

    Guard play (while improving) is still hurting us.

  2. haze 01/24/2008 at 8:10 AM #

    Discouraging? Yes, based on our preseason hopes (now exposed as hopes and not realistic projections).

    However, after watching our sad play against UNC and Clemson, I jettisoned those hopes. Wishing cannot make it so. Against Miami and GT, I’ve just been pulling (occasionally cursing) for the win while I try to learn more about what we really have here. Against Miami, we played tough and close and won. Against GT, we played tough and close and lost. So, for the record, Miami good and GT bad. For the team’s development, both were good games from an energy and heart perspective. Since that’s what I thought we could add, I’m happy to see it. Oddly, GT was perhaps the better game b/c our young guys seemed to grow a bit (esp. Javi).

    As for the team’s play, our problems are the same at PG (though improving) and PF (still not consistently productive) but what I’m really struck by is how SLOW we are as a team. It’s not so bad when Javi is in with the starters (BC is a notable exception) but it’s striking when MJ is running the point and especially we have guys like Horner and Mac in the game. We are simply slower and less athletic than our opponents and it results in practically no production from the bench lineups. This needs to change before we’ll be doing much of anything at the top of the league. Unfortunately, it’s also something that you don’t teach and that means you have to recruit it and that portends real issues for the rest of this year and probably next as well. Frankly, we really need Mays and CJ to be ready to contribute next year and then the ’09 class after that. Hickson staying another year would be a huge help too.

  3. RAWFS 01/24/2008 at 8:20 AM #

    Apparently, Fells blew his assignment on the last play. Sid said Courtney was supposed to take the last shot, but screened instead — because of some confusion in the huddle during the last timeout. They talked about Gonzalez taking the final shot, but instead drew up a play for Fells. Instead, Fells threw a screen and Gonzalez was left all alone to take it.

    Thing is, he rushed it (and had more time) and really didn’t set his feet properly and it looked to me like the ball wasn’t in his hands the way that he wanted. Airball. Game over. Obviously, you don’t want a freshman player taking that last must-have shot from the perimeter.

  4. Sweet jumper 01/24/2008 at 8:22 AM #

    I was disappointed that we came out flat for this game and that it was Fells vs. GT for the first several minutes. But I was encouraged that we regrouped and gave a very strong effort for the remainder of the game. Costner made critical mistakes at crunch time. He needs to be “designated shooter”–subbed in situationally when we need a three and subbed out when we need a defensive stop and a rebound. Javi came out totally intimidated and disrespected by Causey, but he pulled himself together and played well in the last part of the first half and most of the second half. He still dribbles too much of the clock away but he is still learning and his attitude will allow him to continue to grow. The announcers gave us hell. I expect that from Elmore and Patrick, but Bucky Waters is a State alum who played for Case. I was glad to see the mention of Everett Case and his legacy. Jimmy Dykes is an embarrassment to ESPN. He makes the halftime show unwatchable. Causey is the poster child for heart, desire and intensity. What is the difference between Causey and Wes Miller? Causey’s got game! He does push off on nearly every dribble penetration and it was not called once last night.
    Sorry about the stream of consciousness post, but I did not have computer access last night.
    Overall good effort and tough loss. Still disappointed with our interior defense and rebounding and the fact that our point guards dribble away half of the shot clock on most possessions before starting the offensive set. Without the missed travel call, the missed Causey push off on Grant and Costner’s two huge turnovers in the last 5 minutes, we win. Much better effort tonight. Keep the faith.

  5. packgrad2000 01/24/2008 at 8:44 AM #

    wbnation – I thought the same thing about us. I was at the game and it felt like we were playing in slow motion.
    I don’t buy all this, “We played great, we’re improving” stuff. The thing is, GT is about as bad as us. They had almost as many turnovers…I don’t know how many we finished with, but I think it was close to 20.
    We expend so much energy just getting into our half court set. One time there were 17 seconds left on the shot clock by the time we got in our offense.
    There’s still very little movement in our offense. It’s very frustrating to watch because we never really got into a rhythm and there was never much of a “flow.”
    So many of the mistakes we make are fundamental, like not boxing out or overplaying the guy on defense or picking up your dribble when you don’t need to and letting them come and trap you. It was very frustrating to watch and although the crowd was good we never really got into it. You could sense the frustration in the crowd.
    I think the jury’s still out on Sidney. I want him to succeed as coach, but I don’t buy this, “Let him get his guys there.” I’m not saying “fire him” at all, but I don’t think it matters who’s “guys” these are. You can teach fundamentals to 8th graders, and we’re lacking basic basketball IQ.

  6. packgrad2000 01/24/2008 at 8:50 AM #

    One other thing – a silver lining I think. JJ has been average at best since ACC play started. I think I heard Gary Hahn say he’s only shooting 40% FG since ACC started, and that’s including all the easy dunks he’s getting! He just hasn’t been dominant, and I don’t think there’s anyway he’ll go NBA next year. If he does, he surely won’t be a lottery pick.

  7. Par Shooter 01/24/2008 at 8:56 AM #

    First off, let’s dispense with the ncaa tourney talk. It’s laughable. Talk about lunatic fringe – anybody who thinks this group has a prayer at the dance is truly nutty. We’re bad. Real bad. Les Robinson bad.

    On the up side, at least we are playing a little harder. And both of our pg’s probably had career highs scoring tonight. Of course, they still killed us on both ends of the floor but maybe they can take some confidence from this game.

    Finally, I have never EVER seen an offense uglier than ours. It makes that horseshit that Herb ran look like a thing of beauty. We are absolutely incapable of catching the ball and then passing along. Every damn one of our guys has to “check the air” when they get it. Catch, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, look, look, look, pass. Repeat. Javi and Marques have mastered dribbling around for 15 sec without accomplishing anything at all. If they just hold their ground it’s a moral victory since they usually do a slow retreat to half court. And Horner’s offensive game consists of catch, pump fake, dribble, uh oh. It’s like he’s channeling Damien or something. And we have now run the same play for a 3 at the end for like 6 possesions in a row counting back to the Miami game. At least it did work once when Fells nailed one late in OT. I am curious as to whether the O will look better with a real pg or whether it will take yet another new coach. We may never find out if he doesn’t hit the trail and find a pg somewhere.

  8. zahadum 01/24/2008 at 8:58 AM #

    Random observations:

    This team continues to confound expectations, though not in a good way. Coming into conference play, we all pretty much agreed that our wild card would be getting consistent good play from Fells. Well, he’s playing the best ball of his career this month, but we’re not giving him enough help.

    Hickson had 2 rebounds more than the rest of our frontline guys, starters and bench, combined. That’s absurd.

    Mike Patrick is truly a moron among morons. It was actually funny how many times the camera man disagreed with him on who a foul was on.

    I officially give up on trying to understand what is traveling in this league. Apparantly it can’t be defined.

    Tracy Smith should start getting Horner’s minutes, because Horner has given us nothing production wise all year long.

    The last 3 point play that Causey had against Javi ranks in the top 10 alltime I’ve seen of totally phantom fouls. He must have fouled him with his breath, because there was nothing even faintly resembling physical contact.

    I was watching the game at my old ex-roommates’ house. After Javi’s oh-so-clutch last shot, we looked at each other and both just burst out laughing. When his wife wanted to know what was so funny, we told her: “We’ve been State fans for over 40 years, what else can we do?”

  9. Classof89 01/24/2008 at 9:19 AM #

    Anyone seeing “improvement” in a home loss to the only team in the ACC with a losing record (until they beat us) needs to put down the ganja and back away from the table. The only difference between this team and the worst Les Robinson teams is (1) this team has much more highly ranked talent on it and (2) the Les Robinson teams were actually competitive against UNC. I had this team pegged at 6-10 in the ACC. Now, they will be lucky to match next year’s 5-11. Clearly, it will take a combination of two things for any more ACC wins: (1) A lower division team has to (2) have an off night. That will happen one or two more times, three if teams start to overlook us as the also-ran we are this season. The Dukes and UNCs of the world will still work us like a rented mule even if they play terribly. And, as Tech showed, there isn’t a team in the ACC that can’t beat us playing well.

  10. FullMoonRising 01/24/2008 at 9:19 AM #

    Is it true that is the first time that we have ever lost to GT at the RBC Center?

  11. choppack1 01/24/2008 at 9:21 AM #

    Smith plays the 4 – Horner can play some 3 spot.

    Personally, I’d like to see Tracy Smith more, too though. He always seems to make some good things happen.

    I saw some good things from both Javy and finally from MJ. MJ has to take that 3…I can’t believe he is incapable of shooting it. Hopefully, he will improve.

    This was only the second close loss we’ve had to date. Hopefully, the team and coaching staff are learning that we can’t afford to throw away possessions and have mental farts. We simply aren’t talented enough, don’t defend, turnover our opponent or rebound well enough to get away with not maximizing each possession.

    One thing that annoys me about MJ – he absolutely refuses to push the ball up the floor. Hopefully, that will change.

    Finally, as stated earlier – our guys need a higher b’ball IQ. To me, a couple of plays sum it up.

    1) When Javy was playing w/ some confidence – the D was starting to respect him and Hickson was actually one on one w/ space – Javy saw the angle Hickson NEEDED to take and was looking to throw the ball there – Hickson continued to simply try to fight for the spot he was at instead of letting following Javy’s lead, which would have led to an easy basket for JJ. This actually happened on consecutive possiessions.

    2) Grant’s fouling of Morrow – This isn’t necessarily Grant’s fault – the team needs to know who to foul, and who not to let have the ball – Morrow was at the top of that list.

    We did some things right and we did some things wrong. Right now, it appears likely we’ll be lucky to get to 6-10.

    We seem to be in a pickle. Javy tries on D, but isn’t big or strong enough to stop an aggressive PG. MJ plays better D, but refuses to take 3 pointers.

    I’m already wondering about next year. If Javy comes back the same size (not height, but weight) and strength and MJ’s 3 point stroke hasn’t improved – I think a good AD (which excludes Fowler) will have enough info to make a decision.

  12. Mike 01/24/2008 at 9:25 AM #

    Hello Raleigh police, I would like to file a missing persons report. Someone has kidnapped #10 and replaced him with an imposter. Wait, never mind, we are happy with the new #10.

    Hello Raleigh police, another missing persons report. #33 has also been kidnapped and replaced. Please find our old #33 who could actually catch the ball, shoot the ball, and occasionally play D. One report may be the Dodgers have replaced our old #33 with Terry Forster – please check with the LAPD on this issue.

  13. waxhaw 01/24/2008 at 9:29 AM #

    We obviously had improved guard play. (other areas weren’t improved)

    It was a tough loss against a team we should have beaten. The dark cloud is that GT at home is one of the few games we will have where we should win. The silver lining is is the guard play gets better, we will win some games we shouldn’t.

  14. choppack1 01/24/2008 at 9:31 AM #

    Oh yea – I forgot to add – I think we win this game w/ Farnold playing PG. His height, speed and ability to hit the 3 would have been critical. I need to remember that before judging this staff too harshly. Evidence of the negative impact of his loss would be stronger if we didn’t lose to ECU and UNO and get absolutely destroyed playing Michigan State while he was healthy.

  15. Classof89 01/24/2008 at 9:32 AM #

    “I think a good AD (which excludes Fowler) will have enough info to make a decision.”

    You are kidding, right? It would take a collapse of Doherty-esque proportions (7-20) for anyone in our administration to pull the plug after less than 5 years, although this saga is beginning to take on eerie similarities to the Matt Doherty episode at UNC (unpopular AD makes panic hire after prior, well publicized flirtations with good candidates leading to apparent agreements collapse; hire initially hailed as favorite son with links to prior national championship coming home; staff features other favorite sons with links to past championship teams at school, fans quickly go sour on hire as inexplicable bad play ensues, despite apparent ample talent). Wonder if it will turn out as well as theirs did…Unfortunately, what I think will happen is that Lowe is better than Doherty, and will perform close enough to mediocre to hobble along for 5 or 6 years.

    Boy what a depressing year for hoops…mens team is a mess, and Kay Yow appears to be going through a Tom Landry-like end to her long and storied career….she should have retired after the Sweet Sixteen run last year…Its terrible when a legend goes out with an awful year or two…

  16. Mike 01/24/2008 at 9:32 AM #

    Also on this thread and the other thread, a lot of you have been bashing Causey. I was watching this kid the other night against UNX and thinking I really liked his style. Maybe it had something to do with his opponent, but I thought the kid had spunk.

    Yes, last night he grabbed jerseys, held, pushed off, held more, traveled, pushed off more, and did all the annoying crap that we would love if he were wearing red. Kid never stops and have to admire his grit and determination. Dont know about his background, but that hustle and effort may be all he has for talent.

    He could play on my team any day of the week. At least he’s not a Paulus whiner, Redick whiner, Laettner whiner, Collins whiner, Shashefski whiner, Traveler Hansbrough whiner (ok, maybe traveler fits, LOL) Scott Williams whiner, Lang whiner and the list could go on. Put Causey at PG on our team and watch the difference.

  17. Sweet jumper 01/24/2008 at 9:43 AM #

    I agree Mike–Last night, I was ready to trade Javi or MJ for Causey even though this is his last year of eligibility. Of course, then Javi stepped up to the challenge and played better and gave us a glimpse of better things from him in the future.
    I put this question and answer in a previous post: What is the difference between Causey and Wes Miller? Causey’s got game!
    I like Causey. He truly is making the most of his opportunity and getting the most out of his abilities. He is a warrior with a big heart who is afraid of nobody on the basketball court.

  18. eas 01/24/2008 at 9:48 AM #

    Javi did look a lot better, although I wasn’t impressed with him heading straight to the locker room after the bad shot and not shaking hands with GT (poor sportsmanship)….The more I watch MJ the more confused I am on how we recruited him? He certainly has the “build” but his shot is awful and his dribble skills seem to be on par with Gavin’s???? I keep hoping he is just timid but I am afraid that is not the case.

    Costner….Well no comment (it continues to be obvious). I like Hickson but McCauley needs some of his minutes. Hickson still makes too many dumb decisions (mainly as a result of being a freshman) and his defensive is not good at all. Lawal was a LOT better than Hickson last night.

    The energy continues to be fairly decent but I think we should move things a little quicker. Although we don’t have a true PG, we are still getting worked over on the slow half court offense style.

    I know it is a couple of games out but Duke will be a rough game on our backcourt. The pressure will be double what it was last night. At least this team is getting a little more motivated these days. To bad we can’t get the other bad habits worked out.

  19. primacyone 01/24/2008 at 10:02 AM #

    This article pretty much sums it up: http://www.wral.com/sports/basketball/ncaa/story/2346573/

    If Costner could hold on/catch the ball we win the game.

    Would it be wrong of me to say this – I’ll be somewhat glad when all of Herb’s players are gone and Sid gets the guys he wants. Sid plays are really good, we just blow them on the exeuction.

    At least Javi actually gives a damn and is disapointed and seems to be working his tale off to get better, along with all the other sophmores and freshman. What the hell is wrong with Brandon Costner. He’s going to be here again next year at this rate. Is that a good thing?

  20. Sweet jumper 01/24/2008 at 10:04 AM #

    MJ is proof that basketball today is about the best athletes in most cases rather than the best, fundamentally sound basketball players. Size and athleticism get scholarships today. I don’t know how he could be on anyone’s list with that ugly push shot from the chest and his lack of quickness. He must have been 6’5″ in high school and played center. Javi showed more than MJ last night and frankly that surprizes me.

  21. choppack1 01/24/2008 at 10:08 AM #

    Guys – one thing to remember about Causey – he’s a senior. He actually was at Georgetown, transferred to North Georgia (or something) and resurfaced at GaTech. He’s a smart kid – and he’s physically mature. If Javy stays around long enough, he can easily be this kind of player or better by the time his 4th year rolls around.

    Regarding Costner – it’s easy to blame him – but, if I’m a coach, and I’m concerned about effort…All I’m saying is that if someone repeatedly has these kind of lapses and is continiously rewarded w/ playing time – can you expect it to change?

  22. BJD95 01/24/2008 at 10:09 AM #

    I agree with Par Shooter – this team is “Les Robinson Bad” – perhaps we should use LRB going forward? At this rate, we’ll be lucky to get 4 or 5 wins.

    Costner, McCauley, and Horner are all shadows of their former selves. Maybe it’s Costner’s knee, but no idea what in the hell happened to the other two. Horner can’t even shoot FTs anymore!

  23. beowolf 01/24/2008 at 10:14 AM #

    I am curious as to whether the O will look better with a real pg or whether it will take yet another new coach.

    Hell, it looked better last year.

  24. Sweet jumper 01/24/2008 at 10:16 AM #

    Costner needs to be yanked everytime he has a lapse or makes a bad decision or doesn’t hustle in an attempt to condition him to play smart and hard. That doesn’t give him much time off the bench. Tracy Smith, this is your opportunity, do with it what Causey has done with his.

  25. packpigskinfan23 01/24/2008 at 10:25 AM #

    I really hope the Javi train keeps on rolling. I think he could be scary-good in 3 years. Even if he is replaced with Johnson at a later date, he has more potential in the long run… by FAR.

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