NC State 74 SC State 49 (Updated Sunday)

SCSt

A lot of different guys played legitimate minutes for the Wolfpack today. State ‘advances’ to 5-3 despite shooting 2 of 16 from the three-point line and 18-30 from the free throw line.

Of note:
* Javi Gonzalez played more minutes than Farnold Degand
* Tracy Smith played double figure minutes (but went 0-4 from the free throw line).
* Simon Harris also played a lot in the first half (so, it wasn’t just mop-up minutes).

If you are a little concerned about the final score, note that State led 60-33 with almost thirteen minutes remaining when Gavin Grant and JJ Hickson were relegated to the bench for the rest of the game. We did not score another basket for approximately nine minutes.

More from ACCNow is available here.

State coach Sidney Lowe used more players, 10 in the first half, perhaps sending a message to incumbents like Courtney Fells who played only four minutes in the first half, that anyone unwilling to play defense or rebound will not be on the floor.

ACCNow also highlighted what we proposed as NC State’s most important key to having a good season after the first game of the year – outside shooting from the point guard position. (Obviously, we presumed that any college basketball team would be able to play adequate defense and rebound)

As we said before – the Wolfpack does not need a point guard to make 3 to 5 three pointers per game for us to succeed. What we need is for our point guard to simply hit the majority of 3-point attempts when they are WIDE – I mean WIDE – open.

Our offense – and the zone defenses that we will see because of the strength of our front court – will create two or three WIDE open looks for the point guard. It’s just that simple. Hitting those shots from the point guard position will ultimately create an inordinate impact on our performance.

The N&O expressed it as follows on Saturday:

Degand went three straight possessions without taking the shot, but finally stepped into the gap of the zone and knocked down the 3. If N.C. State is going to be better than the team that started 4-3, Degand, or Javier Gonzalez, has to be able to reprise Engin Atsur’s role at point guard.

That means one of the two, or Tennessee transfer Marques Johnson who’s eligible to play against Davidson on Dec. 21, has to be able to knock down an outside shot.

Clearly Hickson’s good enough to handle the inside portion of the equation, but even an undersized team like S.C. State had some degree of success in double-teaming him on Saturday.

The inside-out philosophy doesn’t work without the out.

For more from the game, wufpup76 shared a lot of insight in our comments section at 5:13 pm on Saturday. Please feel free to share your thoughts and observations.

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07-08 Basketball

85 Responses to NC State 74 SC State 49 (Updated Sunday)

  1. kool k 12/15/2007 at 4:49 PM #

    Didn’t see TFerg on the bench today…what’s up with that?
    Who was on crutches?

  2. RegularExpression 12/15/2007 at 4:52 PM #

    Aah, just heard that he has the flu. I’m always worried about him because I believe he was Herb’s last recruit into the designated transfer after 1 year role.

  3. john of sparta 12/15/2007 at 4:54 PM #

    RAWFS+PAPacker=Zone defense is a given.
    Pack opponents say i dare you.
    square up, we don’t care,
    ’cause we block out.

  4. redfred2 12/15/2007 at 4:54 PM #

    “On a flip note about wanting to crush SCSU by 80 million points, or whatever,…”

    Stoner, I don’t know if that was directed at me but since I believe I’m the only one who said anything about the score before the game started, here’s what I said:

    I am torn about how I want this next game to turn out. In reality, the final score be should be about 143 to 57, but I’m not too sure that would help this “team” right now. They need some more humility and they need to learn to WORK while concentrating on basketball fundaMENTALS. I think the coach needs to FORCE them play hard by constantly substituting different line ups and seeing who is willing to put forth maximum effort, regardless of the competition that SC State provides in this one game.

  5. doug74 12/15/2007 at 4:57 PM #

    Sid said pre-game that Trevor had a bug. Fells had the misfortune of 2 early fouls before SC State went to the zone. Good to see Horner and Ben get good minutes with effort. Ben was blocking shots too. I think we’ve turned the corner. With Johnson next game maybe Coach can leave guys who can shoot in a little longer if they’re whistled early.

  6. wufpup76 12/15/2007 at 5:13 PM #

    just got back from the game … my observations / opinions:

    first 28 minutes:

    – coach lowe went to the bench early and often, a welcome change in my opinion … definitely no excuses now for lack of hustle / effort on defense or rebounding … if you’re not hustling / giving poor effort or even if coach wants to point something out to you on the bench then you will quickly come out … i like it

    – simon harris came in and did exactly what would expect / want him to do: put a body on people and FIGHT for rebounds … he was a very welcome hustle prescense inside

    – tracy smith still has a ways to go to become a real prescence in a game; i like him, and eventually we’ll need him (prob. next year more so than this year) but he was mostly ineffective with his minutes today

    – a very positive sign: from the get-go, teammates were cheering and urging each other on from the bench; no one moped or sulked after substitution patterns; and i was extremely impressed that courtney fells kept his head in the game from the bench after getting in early foul trouble – he was very active imploring his teammates on from the bench … a great sign … also, i know a lot of you believe brandon costner has attitude issues but i did not see this today at all; at the first half buzzer, he was the first team member off the bench to run out on the floor and give the five guys playing high-fives and encouragement … all very positive signs from my standpoint

    – speaking of costner, he really struggled on the defensive end in the first half but came out and answered the bell in the second half with 3 immediate blocked shots; he’s still struggling mightly with most facets of his game, but i was very glad to see this … keep your head in the game on the defensive end your offense will come around … and we will need his production sooner rather than later

    – in general, the defensive effort and particularly the rebounding effort was much better (please note i’m still talking about the first 28 minutes of the game here); still a lot of room for improvement, but better … transition defense was BAD when SC State actually had opportunities to run; this must be shored up or teams like duke and chapel hill could very easily get 100+ on us

    – we still looked terrible against a zone defense for a great number of possesions; we’ve got to get better ball movement around the perimeter and shoot the ball better and with consistiency or we’re going to struggle to break 70 pts. all year

    – ben mccauley easily had his most effective game of the season; he was active on both ends of the floor from the moment he came into the game … very encouraging

    – say what you will about gavin grant, but i love him … he has tried to be a leader all season and along w/ JJ + farnold to me has always given maximum effort on the court … just needs to knock down the majority of his free throws … if we could get teams out of zone defenses, i could see fells, grant, and hickson getting to the line a lot in games with grant slashing and fells running the baseline and hickson being physical inside … wihshful thinking i know since we’re going to see a LOT of zone this year

    last 12 minutes:

    – sloppy, inconsistent play … team looked dead to the world in some moments

    – i hate to say this, but the lack of offensive production those last 12 minutes was due almost directly to extremely ineffective point guard play … we are in real trouble at that position … i like both farnold and javy, but farnold really struggles at times to efficiently run a half-court set offense and javy is not good at all in transition; i like the kid (javy), but to me he is just not an ACC player – especially at the point guard position … we just looked terrible against the zone at times and the last 12 minutes were excurciating to watch (sry for bad spelling) … let’s hope marques can give us a lift, otherwise we’re gonna really struggle just to get to 60 pts. some nights against ACC competition

    – sry for the length of the post … go pack!

  7. MrPlywood 12/15/2007 at 5:30 PM #

    ^combined with playing one of the most putrid of opponents this side of Savannah State…

    Considering that the last putrid opponent State played kicked their butts, I’ll take this one.

    I didn’t see it, but going by the boxscore, it looks like the rebounding improved, and scoring was balanced. The poor FT shooting is at the feet of Grant and Smith. Yeah, there are still things to worry about, but at least they conquered the big problem – scoring more points than the other team.

  8. Buck 12/15/2007 at 5:38 PM #

    I don’t understand why Lowe has this team playing at last year’s tempo. This teams needs to RUN RUN RUN!

  9. Octavian 12/15/2007 at 5:39 PM #

    Certainly isn’t an eye opening observation but unless Degand vastly improves or Johnson turns out to be the next Nate McMillan, I think we’re a bubble team at best and will struggle to get to 8 ACC wins. No pure shooters and once again devoid of a talented, bona fide PG (hard to believe but has been the case for more than a decade). Upper echelon teams always have that lightening quick and/or muscle bound floor leader that has supreme command of his dribble. It’s no coincidence we’ve been mediocre (just making the tourney shoudln’t cut it at NC State) since Corch. Oh well…adapt and overcome — Let’s see what Sid and the boys are made of.

  10. werncstate 12/15/2007 at 6:46 PM #

    What we learned today is NCSU is a much better team with Costner sitting on the bench. Great to see Horner and Harris hustle there butts off. Take note Brandon please.

  11. ncsuftw01 12/15/2007 at 6:55 PM #

    Costner seemed to play a LITTLE better, played some D but still isn’t up to last year

  12. spanky 12/15/2007 at 7:44 PM #

    Yeah, Costner did show effort a couple times on D. However I distinctly recall watching a rebound bounce up off the rim while he was standing 3 feet from the basket and he stood flat-footed watching it. When that rebound was pulled down by a State player he was also the last one by far across half court with a half-ass jog up the court.

  13. JeremyH 12/15/2007 at 8:30 PM #

    It looks now that Costner may have missed the boat by not turning pro last year. But bear in mind this is only his sophomore season. Hopefully the bench time will inspire him to push himself. Who knows this could all work out for him AND the team better in the end. I just hope he can adjust and expand his game as needed. Unfortunately I see parallels here with Andrew Brackman, a change of body type leading to lack of any kind of production. I’ll glad he doesn’t have a 99mph fastball because he has an amazingly true stroke for a guy with his height.

    I liked the improved intensity and rebounding. It’s amazing what that can do to the complexion of a game: } Horner remains my favorite player, his effort and basketball IQ are much needed.

    I can’t help but think today that the recruits we lost in our transition period are really biting us back now:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/stats/team/2007/gtown.html

    Player G Min PPG RPG APG Off Def Tot Ast Stl Blk TO Fouls

    Chris Wright 7 115 5.0 2.9 1.7 4 16 20 12 7 0 12

    from three:
    6 11 54.5

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/stats/team/2007/setonh.html

    Player G Min PPG RPG APG Off Def Tot Ast Stl Blk TO Fouls
    Larry Davis 9 218 7.6 3.2 1.6 9 20 29 14 12 4 8 20

    from three:
    9 24 37.5

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/stats/team/2007/florid.html

    Player G Min PPG RPG APG Off Def Tot Ast Stl Blk TO Fouls
    Dan Werner 10 234 6.5 6.7 2.8 23 44 67 28 9 2 20 22

    from three:
    9 24 37.5

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/stats/team/2007/ncstat.html

    Player G Min PPG RPG APG Off Def Tot Ast Stl Blk TO Fouls
    Farnold Degand 7 219 7.6 3.1 3.1 4 18 22 22 5 5 12 11

    from three:
    6 13 46.2

    Player G Min PPG RPG APG Off Def Tot Ast Stl Blk TO Fouls
    Javier Gonzalez 7 58 1.3 1.1 0.4 2 6 8 3 5 1 5 6

    from three:
    2 10 20.0

    Player G Min PPG RPG APG Off Def Tot Ast Stl Blk TO Fouls
    Courtney Fells 7 223 8.9 4.3 0.6 6 24 30 4 2 4 10 24

    from three:
    10 31 32.3

    …nothing exceedingly jumps out (besides the 0 TOs by Chris Wright and Degand’s 3 point shooting), but interesting to compare. Did someone say the the ’09 season would be the one to truly judge Lowe by? Julius Mays, come on down.

  14. choppack1 12/15/2007 at 8:32 PM #

    I’ve heard that Costner is out of shape. If so, you would expect him to struggle in the areas of rebounding and transition.

    In general, the fact that we’ve come out ready to play in both the ECU games and this one, and faded down the stretch points to a problem in conditioning.

    I’m more than a little concerned that we didn’t score a lot of points against this team…I believe they gave up 81 points a game.

    It sounds like the hustle was better. I really can’t think of an area right now where we’re not lower-echelon in conference, but thankfully we’ve got time to improve.

  15. vtpackfan 12/15/2007 at 9:02 PM #

    “Considering that the last putrid opponent State played kicked their butts, I’ll take this one.”

    ^You’re right. I will take it every time, “a win’s a win” or something. I was just saying that you can’t go beyond that without stating something that ooze’s with subjective prejudice. Someone above commented that they thought that this team “turned the corner” today. Is that the corner just before you enter the tunnel with the light at the end of it which may or may not be an oncoming train (ACC schedule)?

  16. JeremyH 12/15/2007 at 9:11 PM #

    vt: we all know it’s ugly basketball right now, and now that we’ve come down to reality for expectations, its better to look at from the ‘is progress being made’ perspective. they needed a win to get their confidence back, and continue trying to gel, that’s what this was.

  17. Trip 12/15/2007 at 9:24 PM #

    MISSED DUNK by FELLS, Courtney

    Why do I see this so much? I think against Barton College Fells somehow missed 2 dunks back to back, haha.

    One thing that I like to see on the boxscore…

    SUB IN : HARRIS, Simon 11:25
    SUB IN : HICKSON, J.J. 11:25
    SUB IN : DEGAND, Farnold 11:25
    SUB IN : GRANT, Gavin 11:25
    SUB OUT: GONZALEZ, Javier 11:25
    SUB OUT: FELLS, Courtney 11:25
    SUB OUT: SMITH, Tracy 11:25
    SUB OUT: HORNER, Dennis 11:25
    SUB OUT: MCCAULEY, Ben

    Sucking it up? complete team change out. We hadn’t scored in 3 minutes while allowing them 5 points or something, so I guess Sid decided we needed new people.

  18. Stoner 12/15/2007 at 9:32 PM #

    Stoner, I don’t know if that was directed at me

    Redfred, my comment was not directed at anyone. Just seemed from listening to the radio broadcast that Sid started going to the bench more in the second half and was trying to slow the game down, which maybe a reason why we didn’t score more points and had such a long scoring drought.

  19. Primewolf 12/15/2007 at 9:38 PM #

    Our D was much improved. Of course, that doesn’t mean we are very good on D, but it was improved.

    Offense was better. However, our guard play is so weak, I cringe about the thought of playing UNC or dook. How many turnovers can one have in a game. we may set a record those days.

    Unles Javi isn’t up to his HS form yet, I can’t see why we brought him in with a scholly.

  20. JeremyH 12/15/2007 at 9:53 PM #

    “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

    ^^Oh this is new… too many urls? too many words?

  21. bckncsu 12/15/2007 at 11:56 PM #

    Cheer up, all… don’t get so down thinking this team will never see first in any rankings this season. We’ve managed a #1 and a #6 on this list: http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7564646.

  22. bckncsu 12/15/2007 at 11:59 PM #

    The period killed the link above. Try this one: http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7564646

  23. choppack1 12/16/2007 at 8:49 AM #

    Regarding Javy – if there’s one guy who is at least hustling – it’s him. Yesterday, he had a steal and 7 rebounds.

    Before yesterday, he was 2nd on the team in steals, in spite of being 8th in minutes played.

    He still has too many TOs for a pg and he needs to drastically improve his shot. However, if I’ve got a kid out there who is hustling and playing hard on D and rebounding well for his position – on a team that needs those things badly – well, I think you saw Sidney reward that a little yesterday.

  24. wufpup76 12/16/2007 at 11:07 AM #

    choppack1 – yes, i’ve been impressed w/ Javy’s hustle on the defensive end all year, and in the first half he had probably his most effective minutes of the season on the offensive end

    that said, he looked awful at times not knowing when to push tempo and we had far too many possesions dip down under 8 seconds on the shot clock with him still handling the ball out top 30 ft. away from the basket … it was also Javy who was out there for the majortiy of the “drought” minutes from 12:00 left in the 2nd half

    you’re right, he does hustle and this team needs it … but i see this being one of those mike o’donnell situations … one game look at that kid and i knew he couldn’t cut it in the ACC … i feel the same way about javy – just my opinion … certainly hope he proves me wrong by the end of the season 🙂

  25. Clarksa 12/16/2007 at 1:58 PM #

    “I don’t understand why Lowe has this team playing at last year’s tempo. This teams needs to RUN RUN RUN!”

    In order to RUN RUN RUN you must first play DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE and REBOUND REBOUND REBOUND. We RAN several times after we played DEFENSE and REBOUNDED the basketball.

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