Rivalry Week – An Opponent’s Perspective

Earlier, this year, I asked a friend of mine to write a guest post outlining his perspective of the State/Carolina rivalry. Some background – he is an avid ACC historian and trivia king (rivals our own noah on those fronts), a “friend of the blog,” and the only “football first” UNC fan that I have ever met. He actually attended the thrashing in Death Valley last year – I shit you not. We eagerly await the likely return of BLS in the comments. Without further ado, here are the words of ACC Guru:

I’ve been asked to give the Carolina (or should I say “UNC-CH”) perspective of the State-Carolina rivalry, and have struggled with the best way to organize my discussion. First, I decided to limit my analysis to the last 20-25 years, mainly because I wasn’t old enough to follow college football until the mid-80s. Once I decided on that timeframe, I quickly realized that, for most Carolina fans, and probably for even more State fans, this rivalry over the last 21 years has pretty much been defined by the man working the home sideline at Carter-Finley Stadium. So, here’s one Carolina fans’ take on this great rivalry during the Sheridan, O’Cain, and Amato years.

The Sheridan Years (1986-1992)

Results: NC State 6, UNC 1

Best game:1986. State wins 35-34 in Kenan by stopping a UNC 2-point try in the closing seconds. Ironically, had the Heels kicked the PAT, and assuming the rest of that season plays out the same, UNC would have tied Clemson for the ACC title.

Best memory: 1987. An easy choice – the Heels’ only win over Sheridan.

Worst memory: 1992. After back-to-back winning seasons under Mack Brown, UNC fans finally thought we had caught up to the Pack, and so this 27-20 home loss was really tough to take. (Honorable mention for the 1990 loss. That game was not televised and I was stuck listening on the radio, and was just left in stunned silence when Woody Durham described Damon Hartman’s 56-yard game winning field goal crossing over the goal post.)

My take: It was tough being a Carolina football fan during Mack’s early years, particularly with respect to this rivalry. State had really solid teams and the Heels were terrible, resulting in two awful shellackings in 1988 and 1989. Plus, Sheridan was such a good game coach that, despite Mack Brown’s upgrade of the UNC talent, the Heels could not quite break through in the early 90s, though it wouldn’t be long (see The O’Cain Years) before the Heels got back on track against the Pack.

The O’Cain Years (1993-1999)

Results: UNC 7, NC State 0

Best game: 1998. Heels win OT thriller in Charlotte, despite a great performance by one of the finest receivers in ACC history, Torry Holt.
Best memory: 1993. UNC ends the 5-year losing streak by outscoring State 25-0 in the second half for a 35-14 win in Carter-Finley.

Worst memory: 1995. OK, it was still a win, but it wasn’t that much fun seeing a 5-5 UNC team need a missed pass interference call on a 2-point play to sneak into the Carquest bowl with a 30-28 escape over a bad State team.

My take: Ah, these were the glory years for the Heels. However, I get the sense that most Heel fans got a little spoiled with the success of the mid-90s, and so the 1998 and 1999 wins were probably more special than some of the others during this stretch because they helped erase some of the sting of watching a Top-5 team quickly unwind into the abyss of the post-Mack Brown era.

The Amato Years (2000-2006)

Results: UNC 4, NC State 3

Best game: 2001. The only time during the Amato years that both UNC and State would go to a bowl. The Heels defense, led by future NFL stars Julius Peppers and David Thornton, was just a little better than Philip Rivers’ offense in a 17-9 UNC win.

Best memory: 2004. Realizing my audience, I won’t add any detail here.

Worst memory: 2002. UNC leads 17-7 early in the second half only to see the Pack roar back for a convincing 34-17 win. This game was early enough in the season that UNC fans believed that the Heels, at 2-3, could still have a good season. However, by the time this game entered the 4th quarter, it became very obvious that State was on its way to a banner year while the Heels were on their way to a horrible 3-9 campaign.

My take: The 2002 and 2003 seasons were very depressing ones for UNC football fans. It was bad enough that our Heels were 5-19 over that stretch, including a home loss to Duke in which a future NFL Pro-Bowl running back couldn’t even earn one carry from our brilliant coaching staff. What made it worse was State’s success over that same time, especially with the media’s seemingly incessant hype of the “Golden Boy” Rivers. Thankfully, Philip graduated, and since then the rivalry has taken a more pleasant turn.

Looking Ahead

For the first time since 1992, State and Carolina both have quality head football coaches. Here’s hoping that the games between TOB’s Pack and Butch’s Heels will be as entertaining as some of those early 90s contests, but hopefully with different outcome. If a Middlebury kicker boots a 56-yard field goal to beat the Heels on Saturday, I may just have to give up football all together.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

NCS Football Sports Junkies Tradition

39 Responses to Rivalry Week – An Opponent’s Perspective

  1. txpack 11/06/2007 at 11:23 PM #

    noah,

    I have to admit you are surprised me by that Chinese name. Where did you learn it? I am probably the only one reads the form who grew up in China (I have only posted few times).

  2. PackerInRussia 11/06/2007 at 11:59 PM #

    During the Amato years (at least the last 3 or 4) it always seemed that Bunting had his team more prepared in every way. No matter what their record was they seemed to play their best game of the year whereas we seemed to play like it was any other game. I will never understand that. I can understand that with Herb (not accept or think it’s OK, but at least understand) considering he didn’t attend NC State or anything, but Amato played here. He should understand it just as well or better than anyone. But his teams always played Florida State with a rivalry passion and he talked them up as a big rivalry. Whenever talking about his accomplishments, FSU was the first thing that came out of his mouth. There was always talk about how this was the rivalry for the Florida players and considering how many we had it’s understandable the way the teams played when playing FSU vs. when playing Carolina. This always frustrated me. I like O’Brien’s quote: “The North Carolina kids went down and helped the Florida kids. It’s time for them to return the favor.” BTW, the interview he gave a few days ago was real good. It’s up on PackPride. Real straightforward, but not without a little humor.

  3. noah 11/07/2007 at 12:36 AM #

    “I assume this å­«æ­¦ means Sun Ping?”

    Sun Wu. “Tzu” means “master.” It was an honorary title given to him. He was the equivalent of a duke in Chinese nobility. The character for “wu” means, literally…”martial art” or “skill.”

    TxPack – I don’t speak chinese. I had to look it up. The stuff about his name comes from my translation of the book. “The Art of War” is the western title given to it by its original translator. The closest thing to the original title in its original chinese is “Military Methods.”

    If you look online, all of the biographical stuff on Sun Tzu ought to be the same. There’s only one known biography of the guy and it’s only a partial record. He disappeared when he was in his 40s and no one knows where he lived out the last part of his life.

  4. cooldrip 11/07/2007 at 3:34 AM #

    “I thought being a rival transcended just one sport, or sports in general… doesn’t it encompass far more than that?”

    So, OSU-Michigan in basketball is huge? The murder rate in Alabama goes up when the Tide and Tigers hook up in basketball? Give me a break; the history in one particular sport usually defines any college rivalry. Do Duke fans still wax poetically about the Steve Superior years? Not really, they care about men’s basketball. So much for your football rivalry. Their passion is borne out by their ticket sales; when you can sell more home basketball tickets than football tickets, and your hoops arena only seats about 11,000 …

  5. Frank 11/07/2007 at 11:06 AM #

    Rumor was that if Bunting had lost the 2004 game he would have been fired that year and Steve Spurrier would have been hired. I don’t know if it was true, but it makes you think.

  6. bTHEredterror 11/07/2007 at 5:02 PM #

    Thanks noah, Military Methods translates as Ping Wa, and I hope that we are able to employ these theories against the Holes.

  7. Ismael 11/07/2007 at 5:45 PM #

    Frank – i actually think that Spurrier doesn’t like UNC-CH, almost like us. They would have had to make him rich i think for him to go there.

    When i was a little kid, my dad had this friend who was a really big guy in the Rams Club (still is). He used to try to sway all of us kids into loving the tarholes. He took me to an exhibition game at a brand spanking new Dean Smith Center when Bosnia-Herzogovina, Croatia, and Serbia were still called Yugoslavia…as a matter of fact written on the back of their warmups was “Jugoslavia”. We were 3 rows from the floor (and not because the guy couldn’t afford floor seats in case u were wondering, it just happens to be pretty optimal for fan viewing). And you guys will be proud to know, Yugoslavia had a 1-kid cheering section. I was raised right.

  8. Ismael 11/07/2007 at 5:51 PM #

    The only problem with the guy’s writeup is that its more a stroll down memory lane…some analysis would be more of what i’d like to see. The NCState guy on WRAL (J.Mike Blake) who wrote up his analysis on the game this weekend did an awesome job.

    As of writing this there are
    4062 minutes left till the game, gues i better get started counting them.

  9. highstick 11/07/2007 at 9:19 PM #

    2004-ACC referees still don’t believe “moving pictures”! Duh huh!!!

  10. BLUE SUCKS 11/08/2007 at 10:35 AM #

    In 1990, I was at Pack vs. Hole game in Ch-Hill.

    As this was my senior year in college, I was sufficiently hammered enough to run off my Carolina buddy and his girlfriend.

    They left me alone – in my solid red, amidst a sea of baby blue – right smack dab in the middle of the infamous end zone bleachers. Yes, bleachers.

    During that gut-wrenching game, there were more than a few unwarranted “sit down you idiot”, “Moo U” and “go back to the farm and milk your cow” insults hurled my way. At least I think they said “milk” your cow. I digress.

    Of course, as a dignified citizen of Rome (aka Raleigh), I kept my rancor in check, as I wanted to set a good example for those Philistine hordes.

    Just as I began to feel a tinge of doubt about the outcome of the game, Hartman’s 256-yard kick set sail. I remember feeling a brief urge to whiz – on those around me, of course – then jumping, screaming and almost toppling backwards as I watched that beautiful ball go through the uprights and over my head.

    The next thing I remember is shaking my booty like Hammer, pointing to the scoreboard and getting absolutely pummeled by drink cups, programs, sticks, stones, spears and who knows what else.

    On that day, I did not convert any heathens … but I did escape with my life, 12 tarhole cups, a chicken bone, a knot on the back of my head, a free game program and a classic memory for the ages.

  11. formerpackplayer 11/08/2007 at 12:47 PM #

    Blue Sucks,
    I greatly appreciated that response. It was nice to read b/c I played in that game and I can remember people dressed in baby blue being so deflated when Damon’s kick went through the uprights. I don’t usually post on these but your post struck a nerve and brought back some wonderful memories. I vividly remember the utter joy that came with beating them in their house on that field goal. I remember Damon running away from us when he saw that mass of humanity dressed in white approaching. I remember the celebration of about 65 giddy kids commencing about 5 yards away from Chapel Hell’s bench. I remember the very loud ride home on the bus. I also remember a young lady who wanted to “congratulate” me for winning. Ah, those days in Raleigh when you beat your arch rival. Chapel Hell had an All ACC tackle who threw his helmet in anger and almost hit one of our managers and we watched that over and over on Sunday during our team meeting while laughing our heads off. What a beautiful day!

  12. Packaholic1 11/09/2007 at 12:06 PM #

    FSU was the national champion in 1999 and the dominant ACC team of the decade. Of course that is a big game and a program to emulate. But anyone who doubts that Coach Amato considered the UNC-CH game our top rivalry game is just blowing more ignorant smoke.

    Go Pack! Get there early, stay til the game is over, make noise on their 3rd down and wear Red!

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