Old Spice Classic – Are they all going to be this tough?

Rider

NC State 72
Rider 63

Can we say ‘survive and advance’ in the Old Spice Classic and get away with it?

* State shot 70% from the free throw line but it didn’t feel like it as the Pack started 15 of 16 and then finished that game by shooting 8 of 17.

* At the half the three point shooting was as follows:
Rider: 6 for 10
State: 0 for 8

* But, State shot 5 of 6 from behind the line in the second half. More importantly, both Farnold DeGand AND Javi Gonzalez hit wide open threes that they are going to HAVE to hit this year if the Wolfpack is to be successful.

* Courtney Fells was clearly the player of the game.

* Trevor Ferguson played a few minutes in the first half and didn’t do much to impress. The Rider player that Ferguson was guarding immediately drained a three pointer; Ferguson missed both of his wide open three point attempts in the first half.

* Dennis Horner saw no action on Thursday. It will be interesting to see if Horner can replace Ferguson’s minutes.

* Next up – Dave Odom’s South Carolina Gamecocks on Friday at 10:30am.

BJD did some live blogging during the uneventful game –

19-13 Rider, and we look even worse today. Started McCauley, did not provide mojo.

3:00 – Evidently, a tighter rotation means Fergie plays while Horner sits. I really, really don’t get it. He’s actually playing at the same time as Javi and Fells, which is baffling beyond words.

3:04 – No Grant, no Hickson. Wow, is that a shitty lineup. Have scored 2 points in like 6 minutes.

3:06 – Rider by nine. Remember the Hindenberg? You are watching the hoops equivalent.

Halftime – Sid needs to peel some paint in the locker room. This shit is completely unacceptable. Rider 31, NC State 28.

4:04 – Second half is much, much better. Pack by 7, Fells at the line for 2. Still plenty of time to choke, UNO style.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball

110 Responses to Old Spice Classic – Are they all going to be this tough?

  1. gopack968 11/22/2007 at 6:55 PM #

    Really struggling to understand why Horner had no minutes (pretty sure on this – I did not see him). He always seems to bring a spark. I hope we see him against Davey Odom.

  2. BJD95 11/22/2007 at 6:58 PM #

    Our finishing skills need much work. Down the stretch, our 2 primary ballhandlers (Grant and Degand) went 5-14 from the foul line, plus an uncontested turnover when Degand dribbled the ball out of bounds off Gavin’s foot.

    Most of this was in the original thread before Jeff started editing simultaneously!

  3. john of sparta 11/22/2007 at 7:11 PM #

    20 feet and 7 inches. clang.
    free Jim Black to check their vision.

  4. Texpack 11/22/2007 at 7:11 PM #

    This was the first time I’ve seen us play this season. I think Gonzales will eventually be the #1 PG. He’s a bit more under control than Degand. Both are serviceable, however, which is a major upgrade from having nobody behind Atsur. Gonzales also looks like the kind of kid who will get better.

    I will repeat myself and say that you will be able to look at the 3-pt fg line in the box score for us and tell whether or not we won the game without watching any of the game.

    It is nice to see Grant playing without having any responsibility as the primary ball handler. He is more active on defense and he’s able to pick his spots to break people down off of the dribble.

    Why isn’t Horner getting Fergie’s minutes?

    Is there a 2-3 combination in the country that turns the ball over more than Grant and Fells in the open court? With Gavin being a playground player from NYC, you’d think he wouldn’t continually have those problems.

    Hickson looks a lot better than I thought he would. We have got to get our half court sets in sync better. If we can start to get points out of Costner and McCauley this will be a very, very good team. This is something I feel fairly confident we’ll improve on. Sidney just needs some time to work with Javi and Degand.

    Thanks to the Wolfpack for a nice birthday present.

  5. kevirose 11/22/2007 at 8:09 PM #

    We are clearly struggling early on, but it is a long season. To me, there are really only two things to complain about today:

    1) Why we continually don’t guard the 3. It was obvious the ONLY way this team could hang w/ us was w/ the three.
    2) Rebounding. We looked much better in the second half.

    Don’t worry, the scoring will come. Costner will somehow get a light fired under his ass, and we’ll all soon forget how lethargic he’s been. Fells will be up and down all year. Grant and Hickson will be solid and McCauley will find his place soon.

    Oh, and I’m very encouraged by Javy’s play. He’s gonna end up our starting PG soon.

  6. nemesisj 11/22/2007 at 8:24 PM #

    This was my first time seeing the team play in person, and I’ve got to say that I was dissapointed by Degand. He looked really green. Javi was much better when he was in, in my opinion. Someone also pointed out about Fergie, but it was a nightmare when he was in. His man hit a three, then he missed two WIDE open looks. We need him to never play during the game.

  7. bTHEredterror 11/22/2007 at 8:35 PM #

    Watch the tape, it was Gonzalez man and not Ferguson’s who lost him in the lane and used a running pick from Ferguson’s man, who by the way was Mansell (the 70% from 3 guy). Ferguson did miss two wide open threes and was posted on the bench for it. If he can hit threes he can get some time, if not then bench him. He’s not the open wound you guys make him out to be, he’s just not adding anything to offense.

    Gonzalez and Degand did look better, and Hickson showed leadership by coming off the bench like a beast. This allowed Ben to get into the game, and more often McCauley was the glue between Costner and Hickson. Since Ben has a good complimentary game, he can transition between the two different styles of player. Horner will not get Ferguson’s minutes, he is getting Gavin’s and minutes from the four spot, so between Grant and the 3 bigs, Horner is a liability on defense at the three, and not good enough to justify time over Costner, McCauley or Hickson. Sid chose to give Ben the minutes instead.

    Fells was the key, if he can be a 10-15 and occasionaly creep up towards 20 and give the solid defensive effort we can be very good. Ferguson is only a spot duty option to rest Fells or maybe Grant at this point, as he appears to be unable to hit the outside shot.

  8. mroli 11/22/2007 at 8:39 PM #

    hey, I’ll take it… for 15 or so minutes in the second half we looked like a BB team. Improve each game, and take the title in march 🙂

  9. McLovin 11/22/2007 at 8:43 PM #

    X-factor in my opinion is definitely Big Ben.

    Though he didn’t have a big game, his fast break ‘and 1’ seemed to ignite the rest of the team

  10. choppack1 11/22/2007 at 8:55 PM #

    I was glad to see us win today…Degand and Fergie both hit some big shots for us in our key run in the second half. I thought that they both played well.

    Here are my other observations:
    *With 2 PGs we should put more pressure on the opposing PG.
    *With better depth we should play harder on D.
    *Our rebounding absolutely sucks. Our guys don’t box out enough and are usually in bad position when a shot goes up.
    *Like others, I wonder why we saw no Horner today?
    *Grant plays like our most experienced and reliable player.
    *We had several possessions to put Rider away and failed to do so.
    *If Degand can’t shoot foul shots better than that, we should play Javy late in the game when we have the lead.
    *I thought Javy did a good job playing hard and scrapping on D.
    *Lots of room for improvement.
    *This team can be great – but it won’t be if we don’t learn how to rebound and defend better.

  11. Packster 11/22/2007 at 8:58 PM #

    We won today….against a decent mid-major in a tournament. We learned some things along the way. It isn’t even December yet. We are going to get a lot better. The players still have to learn to work together. It will happen. This team has the potential to be better than last year’s team for sure. They have depth, quickness, and experience. They will succeed given some time.

  12. WolftownVA81 11/22/2007 at 9:24 PM #

    This was the first game I’ve been able to get on TV this season. The first half looked alot the previous two games as described on previous posts and I was concerned. I saw a lot more effort in the second half on D and it helped that we started hitting some threes. I was impressed with most of the play today from Hickson, Grant, McCauly, and Costner. Fells made some good plays on D and some bad on O (fast break shot with three white shirts on him and no red help.) The blocked shots and steels helped us stay in this one during the first half. kudos to BC for going to floor on a loose ball. Looked like he was very determined today. I really liked how we came out to play in the second half. The extra effort was noticeable and I commend the team for that. I thought our FT % was a lot worse than 75%. This part of our game needs help (especially from our ball handlers.) It may not have been the prettiest win but we showed improvement and came away with the W. I’m looking forward to SC and am more optimistic we’ll see improvement with each game. I’m also looking forward to seeing Horner play. Congratulations to the TEAM on the win today. Way to bounce back after the UNO game. Go Wolfpack.

  13. Wolf-n-Atl 11/22/2007 at 9:42 PM #

    I thought Horner would get some minutes when they went to the zone since he is one of our more reliable 3 pt shooters.

    I also agree that we need more intensity on defense, it seems to get our offense going and leads to more transition baskets. I remember some of the early games last year, we seemed to look to run off of missed shots much more than we do now.

    I thought Degand and Javi both seemed decent at pg. I like Javi better, but Degand could be a great change of pace with his speed. If we can get into more transition offense he will be a big factor (if he doesn’t turn it over).

    One final note, I just found out that Hansbrough has a younger brother at MSU (I think).

  14. WTNY 11/22/2007 at 9:58 PM #

    Check out this telling stat from the Box Score:

    DEGAND, Farnold….. 0 Assists;GONZALEZ, Javier…. 1 Assist

  15. vtpackfan 11/22/2007 at 10:13 PM #

    10:30 AM tip off! I guess they wanted the loser to get atleast a half day in at the magic kingdom before they hit the road.

    Thoughts of the game goes like….pheeeeuuuuw! Good to slip away with one and get a chance to keep working at it. Intensity was good. Rebounding was better, and we defended the post agaisnt their big pretty well I thought.

    Can Degand just get someone the ball where they can score? He looks clueless at times as to what a pg should do in the halfcourt. Often I noticed that GG has to revert to the PG position just so we can set up something. That isn’t just 4 on 5, that 3 on 5 since GG needs to be free on the wing. When GG has the ball on the wing he can shoot, drive or try an entry pass. This is not what he ends of doing most of time when Degand is in there.

    The problem is that teams are going to see this on film and feast on it faster then Lowe can get Farnold to grasp the concept of running a half court offense. My prediction is that MJ will hit the ground running and Degand will be a reserve. Nothing personnel, it’s just that Degand plays PG like Fergie plays SG.

    Costner is too good to keep this up. Yes there are problems, but he’s been off on his shooting and he is definitey slower then he was at any point last season. Supposedly added muscle to his frame so maybe it will take adjust. It’s early but he rarley looks to be one of the top ten players on the floor from either team night in and night out against mid majors.

  16. Trip 11/22/2007 at 10:16 PM #

    As choppack1 said, I was cringing in the last few minutes of the game as Degand bricked almost everyone of his foul shots… if he’s going to be our primary PG then he’s going to HAVE to hit free throws when it matters. He has a good stroke for them and seems to hit them when it doesn’t matter, but when it’s crunch time he just can’t hit them back to back.

    Javi is gaining my respect very quickly, If he can continue to be as steady at the point as he is now and hit some 3’s like he did tonight, he’ll grab the starter spot eventually.

    Excellent 2nd half though, but I’m wondering what “Team rule” JJ broke to get in Sidney’s dog house ?

  17. Clarksa 11/22/2007 at 10:36 PM #

    “Next up – Dave Odom’s South Carolina Gamecocks on Friday at 10:30am.”

    We play at 12:30pm…here are the brackets:

    http://www.oldspiceclassic.com/field.html

  18. doug74 11/22/2007 at 11:54 PM #

    This was much better. I would like to see Horner more also, maybe instead of Costner.

  19. Trip 11/23/2007 at 12:26 AM #

    Anyone watching the Kansas state/George Mason game? GM is destroying KS, they are running their offense as well as defense incredibly well… I hope we can get our teamwork completely together before that game if we manage to make it to the finals or they’re going to have a field day with us. They’ve thrown a few zone traps on kansas state that have just been deadly, I hope degand/javi can handle that sort of pressure.

  20. JeremyH 11/23/2007 at 3:20 AM #

    some notes:

    Costner is slumping, and looks like he’s trying to develop an inside game. But a couple times the defender was able to bother and slap the ball away. He’s an excellent shooter so I am not too worried, but his defensive speed is a concern.

    I also noticed Horner did not play. Unfortunately he plays a position we are overloaded in, and Lowe showed from the beginning of the game he would be less liberal with substitutions. Fergie plays a position we are not overloaded in, which explains his playing time, which was not that much this time. I say he moves down in the depth chart once Johnson is activated. It’s like waiting for Anthony Grundy to start playing, all over again. I really wonder how the duties will be split between the three pgs. I suppose as Lowe says, they will determine that themselves.

    Courtney Fells. Consistently inconsistent. You can almost anticipate mental lapses, turnovers at times. Provides a mid-range jumper game, like Grant, that can pleasantly take you by surprise.

    Grant is becoming the leader, and needs to continue following that up with consistency. Right now would consider him our #2 option after Hickson.

    I thought us surging to take the lead had a lot to do with our depth, and that we wore them down a bit. Of course McCauley had that steal, and Javi/Degand hit big threes. I usually cringe when Degand has to shoot it.

    So far we are a poor three-point shooting team, this must improve to break the frequent zone. I also hope Lowe does not forget the importance of recruiter shooters. Anyway, need to do more penetrate and dishing. When they go in zone, we fall into this lame four corners predictable passing game. Opposition offensive rebounding numbers need to shrink more, please box out.

    I was hoping that K-State would win so we could see Beasley, oh well.

  21. gumbydammit 11/23/2007 at 9:25 AM #

    A comment on the assists for Farnold and Degand – it’s hard to get an assist if you bring the ball up the court, pass it, and that’s the last time you touch it during that possession…

  22. Jamie 11/23/2007 at 10:28 AM #

    Let’s not all jump off a bridge about Horner not playing. Remember, this is (potentially) a 3 day tournament. I’m sure that we will see him today. Also, don’t look past SC. This could just as easily be a 2 day tournament.

  23. Jamie 11/23/2007 at 12:10 PM #

    ^^ Oops. Didn’t realize the losers keep playing. 3 day tournament regardless.

  24. OwenDorm83 11/23/2007 at 12:14 PM #

    Too many turnovers. FT shooting terrible. Defense awful.

    Lots of work to do to get to our promising season…

  25. Dogbreath 11/23/2007 at 1:38 PM #

    No matter how good our frontline can be, slow team speed, shaky PG play, and poor outside shooting are MAJOR concerns. This team bears a frightening resemblence to the Bill Guthridge era Tar Heels.

    I do expect us to make the 64-team field, but anything higher than a 7 seed would be a minor miracle.

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