Bowl Game Possibilities

'07 Football General79

If you are a member of the NC State football team, then you need to quit wasting time on internet chatter and get back to work on preparing for Wake Forest. For everyone else, let’s pool what we can find from official or media sources about bowl games and the selection process to see where that leads us.

As I read various posts on possibilities of bowl games for State, I am struck by how much contradictory information is being floated around and how little support is being offered for those “facts”. I have done a few searches to come up with some official links….but they all appear to be dated from last year.

So I am going to assume that no new rules have been inflicted upon the college football world since last year. I am hoping that our readers can help search for any new rules…or confirm that the following rules are still applicable.

ACC Bowl Tie-Ins and Selection Process

Complete bowl game explanation from theacc.com

The ACC has contractual ties to eight bowl games. After the BCS has selected team(s) from the ACC, the following bowls get to select an ACC representative in the following order:

The Chick-fil-A Bowl in Atlanta, Ga.
The Toyota Gator Bowl in Jacksonville, Fla.
The Champs Sports Bowl in Orlando, Fla.

The bowls may select any ACC team they want…with the two following stipulations.

– The ACC Divisional Champion which does not win the ACC Dr. Pepper Championship Game is guaranteed to be selected by one of four bowl games from among the Chick-fil-A Bowl, the Toyota Gator Bowl, the Champs Sports Bowl or the Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl, unless the team desires to go to another ACC-affiliated bowl game.

– The team chosen must be within one conference victory of the remaining, highest-ranked ACC team or be ranked more than five spaces ahead of the ACC team with the best Conference record available in the Final BCS Standings.

If that is not confusing enough, it gets better. The next three bowls are:

The Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl in Nashville, Tn.
The Meineke Car Care Bowl in Charlotte, N.C.
The Emerald Bowl in San Francisco, Calif.

[These bowls] share the fourth, fifth and sixth selections of ACC teams after the BCS. These bowls will submit their top three preferences of ACC bowl-eligible teams to the Conference Office in order to make the best selections from the available teams and bowls. If an agreement cannot be reached, then a financial ranking will be used to determine the selection order which would be:

1. Music City Bowl
2. Meineke Car Care Bowl
3. Emerald Bowl

If the order is used to determine selection then if the bowl selecting does not choose the next available team in the ACC standings, then the bowl must choose a team within one conference win of the ACC team available with the best Conference record. The bowl could also choose an ACC team that is ranked more than five spaces ahead of the ACC team with the best Conference record available in the Final BCS Standings.

This particular silliness is the ACC office’s way of keeping Boston College from geting passed over all the way to Boise every year. And of course, the Blue Carpet Bowl picks from whatever is left.

So this quickly summarizes the peculiarities of the ACC rules. Now let’s delve into the murky world of NCAA rules for bowl participation as “explained” in the 2006-2007 Football Postseason Handbook.

The NCAA prescribes that bowl games are limited to “deserving teams” from member institutions. There are two parts to their definition of “deserving” that we need to take a closer look at:

Wins Against I-AA Opponents

A deserving winning team is defined as one that wins a minimum of six games against Division I-A competition and has a record that includes more wins than losses. [Exception: Each year, a Division I-A institution may count a victory against a Division I-AA opponent that has averaged 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in Division I-AA football over a rolling two-year period.]

I would have bet money that the restriction on counting 1-AA wins had been done away with. Instead, they have been somewhat simplified…you can count one victory each year as long as the opponent is giving enough scholarships. Any one know if Wofford qualifies or not?

7-5 vs 6-6

Per Bylaw exception 30.9.2.1 an institution with a record of six wins and six losses may be selected for participation in a bowl game if

1) the institution or its conference has a primary contractual affiliation, which existed prior to the first contest of the applicable season, with the sponsoring bowl organization. In the case of a conference contractual affiliation, all conference teams with winning records must be placed in one of the contracted bowl games before any institution with a record of six wins and six losses may be placed in a contracted bowl game; and

2) all contractual affiliations have been fulfilled and all institutions with winning records have received bowl invitations (either through a contractual affiliation or as an at-large selection).

This is big change that I was not aware of until last night. A lot of people have focused on the ACC requirement of being within one conference victory of another school before a bowl could pass over a “less-deserving” school and select State. This NCAA requirement would lock a 6-6 State team BEHIND every ACC team with 7 or more wins.

Combining the NCAA Rules and ACC Contractual Requirements

Looking over these rules, it becomes obvious that becoming “bowl eligible” does not guarantee a bowl….regardless of how well State fans have traveled to past bowls. TOB mentioned last week that six wins doesn’t guarantee a bowl and we can see that his response was not just “coach speak”.

If eight ACC teams finish with seven or more wins and State finishes at 6-6, then State CANNOT be selected by any of the bowls under contract with the ACC. (This conclusion assumes the obvious…that the ACC will not send two teams to BCS bowls.) This means that State’s only chance at a bowl game under this scenario would be to fill a spot left empty from one of the other conferences.

If the ACC does not have eight teams with seven wins, then an interesting question comes to mind. Can one of the trio from SanFran, Nashville, or Charlotte select a 6-win State team and send a 7-win team to Boise? For this to happen, I think State will have to find a sleazy lawyer to spin the NCAA rules:

…all conference teams with winning records MUST be placed in one of the contracted bowl games BEFORE any institution with a record of six wins and six losses may be placed in a contracted bowl game.

Where Does State Stand?

At present, only two teams have been eliminated from post-season play this year. Here is a summary of where everyone else in the ACC stands right now:

 

Conf

O’all

Remaining
Games

Virginia

6-1

9-2

 

Virginia
Tech

5-1

8-2

 

Clemson

5-2

8-2

 

Boston College

4-2

8-2

 

Seven Wins Likely

Wake Forest

4-3

6-4

NCSU,
Vandy

Florida State

3-4

6-4

UMD, Florida

Georgia
Tech

3-4

6-4

UNC,
Georgia

Six or Seven Wins Possible

NC
State

3-3

5-5

WF,
UMD

Maryland

2-4

5-5

FSU,
NCSU

Miami

2-4

5-5

VT, BC

– There is a slim chance that all 10 teams could become bowl eligible.

– The ACC is guaranteed to have at least 8 teams bowl eligible because State and Maryland can not both lose seven games this year.

As I pointed out earlier, the links to the ACC and NCAA websites are a year old. If you find newer information, then include it and a link in the comments below. I have no doubt that we can piece all of the pertinent information together long before anyone in the MSM can be bothered to do it.

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

'07 Football General

79 Responses to Bowl Game Possibilities

  1. dbo2874 11/13/2007 at 9:40 PM #

    cant look at one game rabid. If they beat VT and win the division, then it would be hard to pass over groh.

  2. RabidWolf 11/13/2007 at 9:41 PM #

    In case anybody wants to see it….DaJuan Morgan is the MAN!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qYIxo-ZnkQ&NR=1#

    This about sums up how the team AND the fans felt after this win!

  3. RabidWolf 11/13/2007 at 9:44 PM #

    True, but I still think if we win out, TOB should be the obvious choice. ESPECIALLY if we go to and win a bowl game…how many teams can go 1-5 and end up 7 or 8-5? That’s coaching and getting your kids to buy in to your system…very hard to do when the start is THAT rough!

  4. highstick 11/13/2007 at 10:35 PM #

    Just to offset all this Clemmons talk, somebody beat ’em, I don’t care who! Dang old golf buddy of mine has been sending me emails and darned if he doesn’t sound like an Orange Tarhole!

  5. bTHEredterror 11/13/2007 at 11:52 PM #

    We can’t, I don’t believe, get to the Peach unless:

    BC beats Clemson and loses badly to Miami, AND VT loses to both Miami and UVA, AND Clemson loses badly to USC, AND UVA wins the title game. It would have to go this way so we are within the one game and there are no ranked teams ahead of us. Even then I think the Peach would consider the loser of the title game a better option. Even if they don’t, VT and Clemson and FSU are likely more appealing than us and UVA will have two game lead then and the Bowl would be obligated to take them if they don’t win the title game. I don’t think this scenario will occur, so blame the UCF game for the “lesser” bowl game.

    I didn’t know about the 1 loss variant until this post. I think we could get to the Champ bowl with some help, could be a cool matchup with Penn St or Illinois. But one of the 5/6/7 bowls is more likely, where we would be the most favorable pick from amongst whoever is left. This could still yield a cool game like an Alabama or Auburn, maybe Cal or even a game against WVU.

  6. choppack1 11/14/2007 at 12:50 AM #

    This is the time of year when I get mad at Swofford. His expansion “search” was reminiscent of Fowler’s b’ball coach search. The best school that he added, he didn’t want to add. He added 3 “football” schools – only one of them brings the kind of following that attracts major bowls. He then doesn’t add enough bowls. The bowls that we do have aren’t exactly primo…but you know what, the ACC can’t exactly pull what the Big 10 and SEC can – so a little creativity is required.

    I don’t know what kind of efforts have been made, so I can’t throw too many stones. I’m just not happy w/our current bowls.

  7. waxhaw 11/14/2007 at 1:01 AM #

    ^ I agree. Being stuck with so many Big East tie ins is a bummer too. Hopefully we can dump Boise and add one more bigger bowl at some point.

  8. Cosmo96 11/14/2007 at 6:14 AM #

    Most other years, a trip to Boise would be a poor consolation prize. But this year, I look at it (or any other bowl invite) as being a big reward. During the first half of the season, we weren’t just bad, we were downright inept. After enduring and overcoming all that, any postseason berth would be huge, and set the stage for the possibility of an even better year next year. Hopefully, in the near future, we’ll be in a position where we’re talking about the Peach Bowl as being the worst case scenario.

    There are certain destinations that are obviously more desirable than others, but this year, I’ll just be happy with whatever we may get. Gift horses, beggars and choosers, and so on…

  9. noah 11/14/2007 at 10:58 AM #

    I don’t see the difference in playing in Boise and playing in Charlotte and playing in Tampa or Orlando.

    Those are four towns I have NO interest in going to and honestly, if you aren’t playing in one of the first or second-tier bowls, they really are all the same.

    It gives you an extra game, four extra weeks of practice, something you can sell to recruits, a chance for the alumni to get together over the holidays, and a little flag that you can put up in your stadium.

    Boise’s climate isn’t actually as cold as you think. Back when the Peach Bowl was at Fulton-County stadium, that game was almost always played in bitterly cold weather. I remember several years of frozen rain and wind.

    Go the Humanitarian Bowl and you can stay in a decent hotel, eat a decent meal, go watch a decent game, support your school and come home. Not a lot different than what you’d do if you went to Tampa or Orlando or Charlotte.

    And if you’re argument is that a trip to Florida would mean that you could go see some six-foot-rat, just stop. I’m sure we can find someone here who will volunteer to crap on your head, rob you, have their kids scream and fight in front of you and make you absolutely miserable…and you can even wear rat-ears while it happens! No different than Orlando.

  10. noah 11/14/2007 at 11:16 AM #

    http://www.charlotte.com/colleges/story/361903.html

    Nice pub. Although, I think a black and tan is Guiness and Harp’s or Bass, isn’t it? (I don’t know why you’d mess up a perfectly good beer by pouring Harps or Bass in it.)

    And Sorenson is also right about M. Vick. The dude made absolutely ZERO impact on the league. I expect the same thing will be said about R. Bush and V. Young when they’re washing cars somewhere in a couple of years.

  11. RickJ 11/14/2007 at 11:37 AM #

    There is another reason going to a bowl is important to the players. Each bowl is allowed to give each player gifts of up to a certain value (I think it is in the $300 – $400 range). Since most of the games are played when school is out, I believe players can be paid for travel to and from the games. I have heard of 3 or 4 players carpooling to a bowl and pocketing the cash for their travel. This is all legal with the NCAA.

  12. cooldrip 11/14/2007 at 12:00 PM #

    For any skiers or lovers of other winter sports amongst the fan base, Boise isn’t a bad destination at all. A couple hours east is Driggs/ West Yellowstone … has anyone ever seen Yellowstone in winter? It’s truly amazing! And a couple hours south is Salt Lake City; I’ve skied all over the world, and the best inbounds skiing available ANYWHERE on God’s green Earth is in the Cottonwood Canyons outside SLC … just a thought!

  13. cooldrip 11/14/2007 at 12:01 PM #

    Screw the groomers though; we’re talkin’ FEET of fresh powder everyday!

  14. cooldrip 11/14/2007 at 12:03 PM #

    Sorry about all that, but you can tell how I’ve spent my winters the last few years; Wolfpack basketball just wasn’t the attention-getter it is now!

  15. Ismael 11/14/2007 at 12:39 PM #

    Don’t wanna get too excited about football recruiting but now that Mattes has re-focused to recruiting, he started it all off by going to NCSU-UNC-CH (a directonal school) game. Nick Becton has scheduled his first official to NCSU as well. When i met Don Horton on a flight out of Raleigh, he had just seen Becton practice or scrimmage and was remarking about how good he was, and Don Horton has seen ALOT of good offensive lineman and coached them. Moral of the story, while it isn’t 100% of course, i believe when i did a little quick check back a few years ago, Prospects usually end up going to the school they schedule their first official with. Now Mattes’s first official was to UVa, but that was back at the end of Sept. The JUCO guy out of UTah is supposed to be awesome too. I keep thinking: Jeff Ruiz

  16. noah 11/14/2007 at 12:51 PM #

    I’m reasonably certain that Ruiz has transcript issues. It’s certainly not unheard of for a JUCO kid. There’s absolutely NO reason why Bradley Pearson should still be punting unless the other punters simply have no legs.

    RJ Armstrong and Antoine Holmes were also JUCO kids and both have contributed this year. Not a huge amount, but they’ve played and made contributions.

    I feel good about our recruiting class. We’re probably 60 percent of the way home.

    We’ve got three great prospects in Manning, Barnes and Glennon. We’ve got several good prospects in guys like Earl Wolff, Dwayne Maddox, Williams Beasley, Kyle Linney, the tackle out of Charlotte Olympic, and Tobias Palmer. And we’ve got guys that should be solid contributors down the line in the guard out of Georgia, our new fullback recruit, TJ Graham and others.

    I’m hopeful that Sam Jones returns to the fold as well.

  17. haze 11/14/2007 at 2:13 PM #

    ^ RJ covered the cost of his ship with that goaline block on Saturday.

    I agree about the lower bowls; they are about Sr’s, practice, recruiting, etc. They are not about meaningful football. If you disagree, I dare you to watch a 3rd tier bowl that doesn’t involve your team or one from your conference (at the outside). Only a super hardcore could care.

    As for Boise, aside from the travel cost, it’d top my list on skiing opps alone, closely followed by San Francisco (awesome place).

  18. noah 11/14/2007 at 2:39 PM #

    Is there still a bowl game in Seattle? That’s a cool town, if you’ve never been.

    Didn’t I hear that there was a bowl game in Toronto this year for a big east team? Toronto is an amazing city. It’s cold, of course, this time of the year. But an amazing city.

  19. branjawn 11/14/2007 at 4:46 PM #

    Noah, I just poured a Black and Tan (Harp version) and posted photo at my site 😀

  20. WolftownVA81 11/14/2007 at 5:25 PM #

    I’m reading this from Seattle now and it is a nice town. Good food, good beer and the casinos are on a par with Vegas with much lower limits (Tulalip.) However, the weather sucks. It’s been overcast and cold (40s) all week and while it hasn’t rained, it is depressing. I guess the answer is to stay indoors and drink plenty of coffee or beer. But where ever the Pack is sent to play, I’m going to do my best to make it. These guys have done an outstanding job and I like to show my support if possible. If it’s Boise – oh well, no complaints from me.

  21. cooldrip 11/14/2007 at 5:42 PM #

    If we end up in Boise, check flights to SLC instead of Boise. Couple hours away, but SLC is a hub (Delta?) so it should be cheaper.

  22. noah 11/14/2007 at 6:00 PM #

    Hey, I went to Jacksonville, Florida….TWICE. Boise has to be better than that dump.

  23. Mr O 11/14/2007 at 6:51 PM #

    $596 to SLC. Boise will be pricey unless you have frequent flier miles to use.

  24. Cosmo96 11/14/2007 at 7:18 PM #

    I think the bowl that used to be in Seattle is now the one in San Francisco.

  25. GAWolf 11/14/2007 at 10:00 PM #

    Noah: there’s also the hype nmachine that would be TOB’s umpteenth straight bowl win.

    If the miracle happens that takes us to the Motor City, I’m going. Charlotte? Maybe. Anywhere else, probably not.

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