Bowl Game Possibilities

If you are a member of the NC State football team, then you need to quit wasting time on internet chatter and get back to work on preparing for Wake Forest. For everyone else, let’s pool what we can find from official or media sources about bowl games and the selection process to see where that leads us.

As I read various posts on possibilities of bowl games for State, I am struck by how much contradictory information is being floated around and how little support is being offered for those “facts”. I have done a few searches to come up with some official links….but they all appear to be dated from last year.

So I am going to assume that no new rules have been inflicted upon the college football world since last year. I am hoping that our readers can help search for any new rules…or confirm that the following rules are still applicable.

ACC Bowl Tie-Ins and Selection Process

Complete bowl game explanation from theacc.com

The ACC has contractual ties to eight bowl games. After the BCS has selected team(s) from the ACC, the following bowls get to select an ACC representative in the following order:

The Chick-fil-A Bowl in Atlanta, Ga.
The Toyota Gator Bowl in Jacksonville, Fla.
The Champs Sports Bowl in Orlando, Fla.

The bowls may select any ACC team they want…with the two following stipulations.

– The ACC Divisional Champion which does not win the ACC Dr. Pepper Championship Game is guaranteed to be selected by one of four bowl games from among the Chick-fil-A Bowl, the Toyota Gator Bowl, the Champs Sports Bowl or the Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl, unless the team desires to go to another ACC-affiliated bowl game.

– The team chosen must be within one conference victory of the remaining, highest-ranked ACC team or be ranked more than five spaces ahead of the ACC team with the best Conference record available in the Final BCS Standings.

If that is not confusing enough, it gets better. The next three bowls are:

The Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl in Nashville, Tn.
The Meineke Car Care Bowl in Charlotte, N.C.
The Emerald Bowl in San Francisco, Calif.

[These bowls] share the fourth, fifth and sixth selections of ACC teams after the BCS. These bowls will submit their top three preferences of ACC bowl-eligible teams to the Conference Office in order to make the best selections from the available teams and bowls. If an agreement cannot be reached, then a financial ranking will be used to determine the selection order which would be:

1. Music City Bowl
2. Meineke Car Care Bowl
3. Emerald Bowl

If the order is used to determine selection then if the bowl selecting does not choose the next available team in the ACC standings, then the bowl must choose a team within one conference win of the ACC team available with the best Conference record. The bowl could also choose an ACC team that is ranked more than five spaces ahead of the ACC team with the best Conference record available in the Final BCS Standings.

This particular silliness is the ACC office’s way of keeping Boston College from geting passed over all the way to Boise every year. And of course, the Blue Carpet Bowl picks from whatever is left.

So this quickly summarizes the peculiarities of the ACC rules. Now let’s delve into the murky world of NCAA rules for bowl participation as “explained” in the 2006-2007 Football Postseason Handbook.

The NCAA prescribes that bowl games are limited to “deserving teams” from member institutions. There are two parts to their definition of “deserving” that we need to take a closer look at:

Wins Against I-AA Opponents

A deserving winning team is defined as one that wins a minimum of six games against Division I-A competition and has a record that includes more wins than losses. [Exception: Each year, a Division I-A institution may count a victory against a Division I-AA opponent that has averaged 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in Division I-AA football over a rolling two-year period.]

I would have bet money that the restriction on counting 1-AA wins had been done away with. Instead, they have been somewhat simplified…you can count one victory each year as long as the opponent is giving enough scholarships. Any one know if Wofford qualifies or not?

7-5 vs 6-6

Per Bylaw exception 30.9.2.1 an institution with a record of six wins and six losses may be selected for participation in a bowl game if

1) the institution or its conference has a primary contractual affiliation, which existed prior to the first contest of the applicable season, with the sponsoring bowl organization. In the case of a conference contractual affiliation, all conference teams with winning records must be placed in one of the contracted bowl games before any institution with a record of six wins and six losses may be placed in a contracted bowl game; and

2) all contractual affiliations have been fulfilled and all institutions with winning records have received bowl invitations (either through a contractual affiliation or as an at-large selection).

This is big change that I was not aware of until last night. A lot of people have focused on the ACC requirement of being within one conference victory of another school before a bowl could pass over a “less-deserving” school and select State. This NCAA requirement would lock a 6-6 State team BEHIND every ACC team with 7 or more wins.

Combining the NCAA Rules and ACC Contractual Requirements

Looking over these rules, it becomes obvious that becoming “bowl eligible” does not guarantee a bowl….regardless of how well State fans have traveled to past bowls. TOB mentioned last week that six wins doesn’t guarantee a bowl and we can see that his response was not just “coach speak”.

If eight ACC teams finish with seven or more wins and State finishes at 6-6, then State CANNOT be selected by any of the bowls under contract with the ACC. (This conclusion assumes the obvious…that the ACC will not send two teams to BCS bowls.) This means that State’s only chance at a bowl game under this scenario would be to fill a spot left empty from one of the other conferences.

If the ACC does not have eight teams with seven wins, then an interesting question comes to mind. Can one of the trio from SanFran, Nashville, or Charlotte select a 6-win State team and send a 7-win team to Boise? For this to happen, I think State will have to find a sleazy lawyer to spin the NCAA rules:

…all conference teams with winning records MUST be placed in one of the contracted bowl games BEFORE any institution with a record of six wins and six losses may be placed in a contracted bowl game.

Where Does State Stand?

At present, only two teams have been eliminated from post-season play this year. Here is a summary of where everyone else in the ACC stands right now:

 

Conf

O’all

Remaining
Games

Virginia

6-1

9-2

 

Virginia
Tech

5-1

8-2

 

Clemson

5-2

8-2

 

Boston College

4-2

8-2

 

Seven Wins Likely

Wake Forest

4-3

6-4

NCSU,
Vandy

Florida State

3-4

6-4

UMD, Florida

Georgia
Tech

3-4

6-4

UNC,
Georgia

Six or Seven Wins Possible

NC
State

3-3

5-5

WF,
UMD

Maryland

2-4

5-5

FSU,
NCSU

Miami

2-4

5-5

VT, BC

– There is a slim chance that all 10 teams could become bowl eligible.

– The ACC is guaranteed to have at least 8 teams bowl eligible because State and Maryland can not both lose seven games this year.

As I pointed out earlier, the links to the ACC and NCAA websites are a year old. If you find newer information, then include it and a link in the comments below. I have no doubt that we can piece all of the pertinent information together long before anyone in the MSM can be bothered to do it.

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

'07 Football General

79 Responses to Bowl Game Possibilities

  1. LRM 11/13/2007 at 5:35 PM #

    We can sell them, just not distribute them.

    I think there are still people waiting in line outside Bank of America Stadium to get theirs for the 2005 Meineke Bowl.

  2. VaWolf82 11/13/2007 at 5:37 PM #

    Thanks Alpha. I did my searching last night and wrote the entry this morning. If I had followed my normal procastination routine and put this entry off for a little while, I could have referenced your article and picked up with the ACC tie-ins and rules.

  3. WolftownVA81 11/13/2007 at 5:39 PM #

    The Grand Ole Opry and Famous Dave’s Ribs – bring on the Music City Bowl. Go Pack!

  4. Girlfriend in a Coma 11/13/2007 at 5:41 PM #

    Personally, given the UNC-CH win and the way the year has played out, I view the last 2 (or 3) games as pure gravy. We are going to have positive momentum and press going in to next year no mater what happens, and recruiting seems to be going better than anyone expected. To me, a minor bowl appearance pales in comparison importance-wise to the UNC-CH win (and our positive turnaround taken as a whole), for many reasons.

    Before the season I know I would have jumped at 5 wins with Ws over ECU and UNC-CH. 6-6 would have been unrealistic to imagine for me. Given that we were 1-5, I can’t fathom the stress over what bowl we may go to if we go 6-6.

  5. branjawn 11/13/2007 at 5:48 PM #

    Just to add something to the big picture, The Pac-10 and Big 12 likely won’t produce enough teams to fill their slots.

    Bell Helicopter Armed Forces (Mountain West vs. Pac-10 No. 6)

    Texas (Big 12 No. 8 vs. C-USA)

  6. waxhaw 11/13/2007 at 6:09 PM #

    “If” we lost the last two, it would put a dent in our momentum. We need to win one of those games and make a bowl. (even if it’s Boise)

  7. wufpaxno1 11/13/2007 at 6:11 PM #

    Hmmm…Never been to Boise.

  8. JimValvano 11/13/2007 at 6:13 PM #

    I agree…oh and sorry to hear about your girlfriend. Good luck with that.

  9. RAWFS 11/13/2007 at 6:14 PM #

    Oh, and let me say, that’s a superlative writeup Vawolf.

    That’s why I love coming and reading this site. SFN always teaches you something even if you’re pretty plugged in.

  10. JimValvano 11/13/2007 at 6:28 PM #

    this is off topic but is there a website where I can see a schedule of televised games for men’s basketball games for the entire ncaa???

  11. packbackr04 11/13/2007 at 6:31 PM #

    threadjak^ javi is set to play thurs night… according to gopack.com article

  12. JimValvano 11/13/2007 at 6:33 PM #

    Yeeehaw!!! That’s good news…now the point guard battle can go through phase one and we can start figuring out who will be our boy down the stretch.

  13. Texpack 11/13/2007 at 6:37 PM #

    Just to add something to the big picture, The Pac-10 and Big 12 likely won’t produce enough teams to fill their slots.

    The Big 12 needs two more teams bowl eligible to fill their slots. Colorado and Nebraska are both 5-6 and play each other. That will fill one slot. Ok. St. still has to play Baylor. That should get them to six wins. KSU has Fresno State left as a potential sixth win. They should fill their slots easily.

    The odds are pretty long on the Pac-10 getting a sixth team bowl eligible.

  14. Mr O 11/13/2007 at 6:38 PM #

    Dates of games:
    Champs Sports in Orlando – 5 pm, Fri 12/28
    Music City in Nashville – 4 pm, Mon 12/31
    Meineke Bowl in Charlotte – 1 pm, Sat 12/29
    Emerald in San Fran – 8:30 pm, Mon 12/29
    Humanitarian in Boise – 2:00 pm, Mon 12/31

    All of these bowls fall on good dates and are at good times. For most folks, these trips would require at most 1 day off of work and no days off work for Clt.

    Cost of flights on http://www.kayak.com today from RDU:
    Boise – $572
    San Fran – $575
    Nashville – $244 (8.5 hours mapquest drive time)
    Orlando – $373 (9 hours mapquest drive time)
    Clt – 2.5 hour drive

    Considering the dates, reasonable cost of flights, and reasonable drive times for our fanbase I bet we would bring about 15k to either Nashville or Orlando. My guess is that we would bring more to Nashville due to us having played in Orlando twice in the Amato era.

  15. Girlfriend in a Coma 11/13/2007 at 6:40 PM #

    Of course everyone would always rather win more games than not (hell, we can still win 8). My point is that we have accomplished more this year than most expected (taking everything into consideration — recruiting, team improvement, player development, program momentum, wins, rivalry wins) and that a minor bowl appearance was not needed to validate the year at all (and certainly which minor bowl we get to, if we do, is almost meaningless). I would not trade the UNC-CH victory (even if we lose out) for a minor bowl victory for a lot of reasons, for example.

    Most years when we win 6 or 7 games I am worrying about Charlotte or Tampa v. Boise. This year, IMO, having been 1-5 and given up for dead, we have the luxery of enjoying wherever we end up (if we do) and it not mattering much.

    If we get 7 or 8 wins TOB has got to be mentioned as coach of the year by somebody. I can’t remember a more amazing turnaround.

  16. roandaddy 11/13/2007 at 6:41 PM #

    No HUMILIATION BOWL… whats worse than watching your team play on blue turf field in the snow. Meanwhile, the other station has some team in beautiful weather where people are getting tan in December.
    For what its worth… SEC may have 11 of 12 teams bowl eligible.. so could face an SEC team in a possible bowl match up. Much better than a New Mexico State type of arrangement.

  17. tvp 11/13/2007 at 6:45 PM #

    In any scenario, Clemson, VT, and now UVa will be selected ahead of us (I don’t see a 9-3, 6-2 UVA team being selected after us).

    We will be selected over Wake if we win out regardless of whether they beat Vandy or not. So if we win out, and BC loses to Clemson, our competition then is likely to be FSU at 7-5, BC at 9-3, GT at 7-5.

    Out of that group, who would the Champs Sports Bowl take? Either us or FSU, right? FSU probably sells more tickets and has a bigger “name”, but we’d pump more into the ancillary economy (hotels, etc.) and would probably sell a lot of tickets given our Florida bowl drought and the excitement around the program.

  18. haze 11/13/2007 at 7:11 PM #

    Only negative here is that Wake has every reason to play their asses off on Saturday.

    The Deacs bowl hopes aren’t NEARLY as secure as they seemed 2-3 weeks back.

  19. branjawn 11/13/2007 at 7:13 PM #

    I wonder if the Champs Bowl will be looking at how many fans NC State draws at the Old Spice Classic? Same city more or less.

  20. bTHEredterror 11/13/2007 at 7:25 PM #

    “No HUMILIATION BOWL… whats worse than watching your team play on blue turf field in the snow?”

    Knowing they are sitting at home and not getting benefit of 2-3 extra weeks of practice under the new coaching staff.

  21. VaWolf82 11/13/2007 at 7:25 PM #

    If we get 7 or 8 wins TOB has got to be mentioned as coach of the year by somebody.

    Not a chance. Whoever wins the championship game will win COY…and rightfully so.

  22. dbo2874 11/13/2007 at 8:10 PM #

    tommy bowden and al groh are odds on favorites at this point IMO

  23. RabidWolf 11/13/2007 at 9:16 PM #

    You’d have to think about the chick-fil-a (always be the peach to me) bowl would consider State if we win out. Those guys LOVE this school, mainly because we travel and will buy up tickets at neck breaking speed. I’m not banking on it, but it is a possibility.

    Go ClemPsun!!
    Go Dook, beat the ‘holes!!

    BTW–early prediction—State 27 Wake 20

  24. RabidWolf 11/13/2007 at 9:19 PM #

    Bowden doesn’t even coach, he just kinda wanders the sidelines muttering to himself (“I’ve lost my marbles.”). I like the hat, though. 😛

    Groh is a possibility, but if I remember correctly, we beat him when we were 3-5, right?

  25. RabidWolf 11/13/2007 at 9:21 PM #

    oh, wrong bowden….that comes on later..

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