A View from the Cheap Seats

I’m 28 years old, but at this rate, it’s unlikely I’ll see 29. I’ve always kind of figured a woman would be the end of me, but after this weekend, I’m certain that won’t be the case.

Instead, it will be this team.

See, we don’t rebound. At this point, it almost seems less like the inability as it is the refusal. In the Old Spice Classic, we yielded 16 offensive boards to Rider, 23 to South Carolina, and 18 to Villanova. We all know that offensive rebounds lead to second-chance points, of which I lost count somewhere around 1:30pm Friday afternoon. This is one of the best frontcourts in the nation?

Great, now you’ve got me started.

Turnovers have proven to be an epidemic. This weekend, we were minus-19 in turnover margin, a stat that would shame even Daniel Evans. We turned the ball over 14 times against Rider, 13 against South Carolina, and 22 against Villanova. South Carolina, particularly, exposed perhaps Hickson’s biggest weakness: double team him outside the post and he’ll more than likely turn the ball over. He had a total of 12 this weekend, including five against South Carolina; although in all fairness, the errant pass to Gonzalez was entirely unprovoked. More discouraging was that the veterans Costner (nine), Grant (eight), and Fells (seven) had their own problems as well, combining for 24 total over three games.

Meanwhile, when we weren’t turning the ball over, we were missing foul shots. We were an abysmal 69% from the line for the tournament (54-for-78). This stat is particularly troubling once we realize that we shot a total of 43 more free throws than our opponents – we shot 25 more than Rider but missed 10, which was a large part of the reason we couldn’t put the game away until late. Degand, who we can expect to go to the line often, shot only 50% (9-for-18) for the tournament.

This will eventually catch up with us, possibly this week.

Furthermore, there isn’t much to feel encouraged about at point guard. In addition to his woeful foul shooting, Degand seemed timid in the half court offense and erratic in the few fast breaks he led. Most troubling was the difficulty we had against a very passive 1-2-2 press in the first half against Villanova; a press without traps that was intended to do nothing more than disrupt the offense and control tempo. Degand hasn’t shown the ability yet to penetrate against hassling defenses. This should come with experience…hopefully.

So looking back, over three games we were wretched on the glass, minus-19 in turnover margin, and missed 24 free throws. And this morning we’re 4-1 and the 2007 Old Spice Classic champion?

Nothing about that sounds right. I reckon it’s true that while stats never lie, they don’t always convey the entire truth, either.

For one, the issue of playing time, as many of us suspected, worked itself out through the natural progression of the season. McCauley started all three games due to Hickson’s “violation of team rules,” but foul trouble limited his minutes versus Rider; Hickson and Costner were both in foul trouble against South Carolina while Costner got into foul trouble early against Villanova and was largely ineffective because of it. In the tournament, McCauley contributed 22 points in 82 minutes (7.3 ppg), Costner 34 in 83 (11.3 ppg), while Hickson led the way with 37 in 75 (12.3 ppg). This is solid production from the front line, but the fact remains that Hickson will be the most dominant player on the court most games this season, and quite simply he needs to be playing 30 minutes every night.

Grant struggled against South Carolina but the Rider and Villanova games were marked by his reliable consistency. He averaged 10 points per game in the tournament and even more encouraging was the fact that he always seems to come through for us when we need it most.

While Degand remains a bit tentative overall, he showed brief flashes of being a scoring threat, especially against South Carolina, where his 14 points were a much-needed offset to poor performances by both Grant and Fells; overall, he’s protecting the ball, playing solid defense, and shooting well from the field. Horner added solid minutes against both South Carolina and Villanova, and apparently has solidified his place in the rotation ahead of Ferguson, who only saw time against Rider. Ferguson being on the bench is a definite positive.

Quite simply, Fells has shown time and again his ability to change the course of any game with his pure, explosive athleticism – it’s amazing to me how anyone let him out of Mississippi – and he proved the most pivotal player of this tournament. Beyond his 18 against Rider, he was crucial in the 13-3 charge at the end of the first half against Villanova, accounting for eight of the 13 points in the final 3:09. He hit three free throws, had an offensive board that quickly became a jarring dunk, grabbed a board off Reynolds’ missed three, and then hit a three of his own just before the half. He finished the game with 21 points in 33 minutes and rightfully earned tournament MVP honors.

What you won’t see in the box score is that late in the first half, Degand and Fells started attacking Villanova’s press, which created most of our scoring opportunities during that 13-3 run. This is just another example of how aptly Lowe adjusts in-game; George Mason had clawed its way back into the game against Villanova Friday night the exact same way.

And as atrocious as we were at the charity stripe, the fact is we went to the line over twice as often as our opponents (78 to 35). Even more importantly, we had a 39-point advantage this weekend over our opponents at the free throw line – 18 against Rider, 13 against South Carolina, and eight against Villanova. For years, we’ve lost games against Carolina and Duke because they’ve hit more free throws than we’ve taken, and now our aggressive play has put us in the position to do this to our opponents.

It’s a bit of an enigma exactly how we got here, but we’re here nonetheless, at 4-1 with a trip to East Lansing looming. It’s a cliché, sure, but the most important lesson we can take away from this weekend might be that it’s unlikely we’ll dominate anyone this season; we’ll have to earn every victory.

But for now we can relax – at least until Wednesday night.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball

31 Responses to A View from the Cheap Seats

  1. VaWolf82 11/26/2007 at 1:34 PM #

    I’m 28 years old, but at this rate, it’s unlikely I’ll see 29.

    I used to feel the same way, but sports doesn’t affect me the way it used to. Maybe it’s getting older or maybe it comes from surviving the Kiffin, Reed, MOC, Les, and Herb years. But I think that my lack of concern yesterday was that I never expected State to win.

    After losing to NO and barely beating Rider and SC, State clearly was not playing any where near the level required to make the NCAAT. So I just simply never expected State to win and every run that they made was a pleasant surprise.

    Isn’t it nice to have enough talent and enough players that wins are still possible with sub-par performances and poor officiating?

  2. JimValvano 11/26/2007 at 1:57 PM #

    Degand is…scary. Javi is…going to transfer to a smaller school. Marques Johnson…hopefully will be good enough to start. Our point guard situation at this point doesn’t look good. Think about it…at some point during the first half, when ‘Nova was pressing…did you just wish that Coach Lowe would just let Grant, Fells, and Ferguson bring the ball up and get Degand and Javi outta there? *looks at feet…ashamed* I did. Late in the game when Degand got fouled and was on the line for two shots…did you wish that we had Fergie in instead? *looks down again…embarrassed* I did. I will say this, after this weekend I did realize that Degand is much better than Gonzalez and we should stick with him at the point until Johnson is available. Javi just isn’t BCS Conference material at this point, and I doubt he’ll stick around to find out if he can be. I think he’ll probably transfer out at the end of the year…if he stays around that long. I also think that Degand will be a great spark off the bench if Johnson can secure the position, but we need a point guard who is calm and collected. One that when we’re ahead, late in a game and the other team is pressing and trying to create a turnover before fouling can handle the ball…AND MAKE THE FREE THROWS. It will be interesting to see what happens as the season progresses.

    Defensive rebounding is an issue. Part of the problem is in the laziness and foul trouble of Costner. Another part of the issue is in Hickson constantly attempting to block shots which in turn puts him on the ground collecting himself and out of position to grab the rebound. The final problem which I think contributed more than the previous two to the disparity…most teams were afraid to shoot close to the rim…long shots=long rebounds. Our guards need to be ready to grab some of those and it will give us a lift.

    I’ve voiced two concerns and they are important, but more importantly is my final concern…energy. We had short bursts of it during the tournament, but nothing sustained. I hate to say this, but at times I felt as bottled up as I used to feel during the Sendek years. I take solace in the fact that its early in the season and these were games against non-conference opponents, but it would be nice to see a game (i.e. Michigan State) where we are forced into playing with a high level of energy and enthusiasm for a full 40 minutes.

    All this aside…hey…we’re 4-1. Not bad considering I’ve felt we deserved to be something more to the tune of 1-4.

  3. PackMan97 11/26/2007 at 2:14 PM #

    The good news is we are still in November and we have some nice long breaks ahead where the coaches can work on some of our issues. After MSU we have three games in the next three weeks and only travel to Greenville and don’t open ACC play until Jan 12th. That’s a good 6 weeks until we really get into the heart of our schedule.

    It looks like either the chemistry problems were either short lived or overblown, lets hope that it stays fixed!

    As far as PG play goes…pray. A lot! Degand is looking like he has all the pieces, he just needs to start putting them together.

    Rebounding has me confused as well. We should do better. When was the last time we were a good rebounding team?

    I think winning close games now will do a lot to help this team win games later. The fact that they are making the plays (even against NO) to win is great news! How many times did we NOT seize the opportunity to win under Les and Herb? I’m no longer wildly optimistic like I was all summer and pre-season…but I still believe good things can and will happen this season.

  4. Lunatic Fringe 11/26/2007 at 2:27 PM #

    As you referenced above, the most reassuring part is that the coaching staff is able to make adjustments when things are not working out. The coaching staff is still trying to figure out the make-up & rotation of the team, but I am encouraged by the fact they recognize & apply the right “tweaks” quickly.

    One thing to think about…all 5 teams we played this year have used 3 (or even 4) guard sets against us. It is by far the most difficult type of line-up for our team to play against, given the inexperience of our backcourt and strength of our frontcourt, but we still walked away 4-1.

    SC and Villanova have a LOT of talent in those guard positions and are going to be difficult to handle for a lot of teams. The fact is that we are going to need to learn to handle this type of team to be successful this season and as ugly as it looked this week…we still walked away with wins.

    I expect the addition of Johnson will give this team a boost in mid-December. We need another guard in the rotation to spell Fells/Degand & help against the smaller line-ups and Ferg really has not proven to be the answer.

    I love Horner’s effort and what he brings to the team, but he is as equipped to be our backup 2G as much as Grant was to be our starting PG last year. I am not knocking either player since they both did their best, but simply pointing out that both are/were out of position.

    I am looking forward to Johnson’s arrival and moving Horner back to his natural 3-4 positions. The addition of the lessons learned against the smaller line-up and the press will help us in the long run.

  5. redfred2 11/26/2007 at 2:33 PM #

    Everybody is talking about their age, and saying how they don’t get quite as excited about the games anymore. I still get excited as I always did, but I enjoy the entire process more now. I can watch as kids struggle to fit in early on, and then watch as they learn and develop as the season progresses, and still enjoy every minute of every game.

  6. choppack1 11/26/2007 at 2:34 PM #

    AT this point I’m trying to figure out just what you guys were expecting from Degand? I mean, here was a guy who wasn’t that highly regarded coming out of high school and was such a force he was redshirted at Iowa State. We knew in advance that his game was similar to Clifford Crawford’s – great speed, suspect outside shot, not a prototypical PG.

    He is exceeding my expectations thus far. He has fewer TO’s than assists right now. To me, he is doing a decent job defensively and is doing an OK job running the team. Right now, I’m thrilled w/ how he has played the last 3 games. As I stated in earlier post, I feel better when he has the ball than when anyone one the team (with the exception of Ben McCauley.)

    I don’t know why folks thought that he’d be able to step in for Atsur right off the bat. Right now, this team is light years ahead of where it was last year at a similar point.

    It’s not his fault that rather than dashing down the court Fells looks for the outlet pass too. (This is the real reason we can’t fast break.)

    I’ve endure much of the last 11 years w/out a true PG. At this point in his career, I think he’s ahead of Cliff ( who ended up being a solid player by his senior year.)

    He needs to be cut some slack too – he hasn’t played competitive basketball against an opposition in a game that mattered since 2005. I’m sure shooting foul shots is a little different than it has been in practice the last 2 years.

    As for Javy – he’s not where I expected him to be – but I’m hoping a good part of that is his injury and him being smaller than I was expecting him to be. He seems to be a more traditional PG. He needs to be stronger w/ the ball and handle it better in general. However, he’s impressed me w/ his D.

    Don’t write these guys off yet. Our team AND staff are going to be different this year…I’d rather grow w/ wins than w/ losses.

  7. RickJ 11/26/2007 at 2:42 PM #

    Chop – you beat me to it but here is my take on Degand:

    Farnold Degand was ranked the 46th best swing guard coming out of high school by Scout.com. He signed with Iowa State and redshirted his freshman year, transferred to State and sat out a second year. This guy hadn’t played in a real game since the spring of 2005. I am absolutely thrilled with his play to date.

    Degand is playing 31 minutes a game, has averaged 7.4 points, 3.6 rebounds, 2.8 assists & .8 blocks per game. He’s turned the ball over 8 freaking times in 5 games as our primary ball handler. He is not taking chances offensively or defensively and this limits his assists and steals. My hunch is that Degand is coming closer to doing what Lowe wants more than any player on our team.

    He is 9 for 20 on free throws but his form looks OK to me. We’ll see if his average improves.

    Oh yeah, Bo McCalabb, last year’s Sun Belt Player of the Year shot 5 – 19 against us and Devon Downey, South Carolina’s leading scorer went 5 -20 against us. I wonder who was guarding these guys.

    LRM Note: Guys, I don’t think Degand hurts us at all. He’s almost 2-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio and he’s shooting 50% from the field; in fact, he has fewer turnovers than any of our other starters, averaging half as many as Hickson and Costner. My point is that he’s still very timid and doesn’t yet look comfortable running the offense, which, by all indications at this point in the season, is a result of his youth and inexperience. He doesn’t seem like — to me, at least — a guy that wants the ball in his hands, which is worrisome, because some of the best PGs we’ve seen have had to be reigned in early in their career for being too aggressive. Like you said, he isn’t doing too much…but is that reason for concern?

  8. Wolf-n-Atl 11/26/2007 at 2:59 PM #

    I agree with choppack1… I don’t think Degand or Javi played poorly. Lets remember that Degand hasn’t played in college game in 2 years and that Javi just got back from an injury. I thought our inability to beat the press had as much to do with the way we were attacking it as who was attacking it. I thought we were too passive and that we need to attack it straight on.

  9. ncsu96 11/26/2007 at 3:04 PM #

    we’re not playing near our potential and we beat a ranked team on a neutral site…cheer up! Nearly all our W’s against decent foes required near perfection.

    I swear like a sailor over TOs and missed rebounds but we are definitely getting better. The team is beginning to play together. Degand is improving.

    Now, If we’re playing like this in the middle of January consider me fried.

  10. PamlicoPack 11/26/2007 at 3:27 PM #

    Obviously, the national media and coaches aren’t impressed with our play in the Old Spice Classic, either. Villanova stays in the top 25 of both Coaches and AP polls this week, and we are relegated to “Others receiving votes.” Hope Lowe uses the “no respect” thing to generate intensity for the game at MSU. I haven’t seen MSU play, but their results thus far are not at all impressive…

  11. burnbarn 11/26/2007 at 3:39 PM #

    Nova has a nice press and the experience for the team was very important in the future. i agree, our issue was how we attacked the press.. We were throwing the ball down the sideline and we were really struggling.. we moved our bigs closer to the basket and from that point, we handled the press okay. I think Degand is playing well and he will be quite serviceable.
    Javi is struggling but so did gainey.. He couldn’t bring the ball up the court his freshman year either and he is not getting the minutes that gainey got for experience.
    We have much room to improve, but we are doing some things very well….defense for one and scoring efficency for another. We just rebound a little better, get our veteran players to stop turning over the ball so much and hit FTs a little better than we have been and this team will be able to compete with anybody. We seem to be getting some rythym with the rotation.
    We played some good teams this weekend and came away with 3 wins. Mich State just got by their last opponent…. we can play with them.

  12. JimValvano 11/26/2007 at 3:57 PM #

    I’m not down on us. I just am stating the things that need to be addressed. I think that my assessment of Gonzalez is accurate and you will all see how true it is. He will transfer. As far as Degand goes…he is progressing…a little. I just see him as a great spark off the bench with his quickness. I also would rather him not be a starter…actually…I’d rather him not be a finisher due to his free throw troubles.
    Looking at our point guard play right now…all of you have to acknowledge that you are nervous about our performance against the likes of Lawson, Paulus, Vasquez, McClinton, Rice, Singletary, and Douglas. I know I am. I promise you that the Tarholes, Twerps, Hurricanes, and Semi-holes will all put a press on us. Not to mention the Dookies and the Tarholes with their half-court traps and on the ball pressure. We’ve got some improving to do and to me that improvement looks to be pretty massive. That’s why I am already talking about Johnson.
    I also disagree with the assessment of Clifford Crawford…he was a victim of Sendekian philosophy. He would have been much better in our current system.

  13. Lunatic Fringe 11/26/2007 at 4:04 PM #

    ^^ Correction ^^

    Villanova actually moved up 4 spots in the AP poll this week. Hilarious!

  14. Lunatic Fringe 11/26/2007 at 4:06 PM #

    I agree with the comments by chop…

    My buddy is big fan, but does not obsess over blogs, message boards, and recruiting rankings to the level some of us do (I probably could learn something from him). He always provides a different perspective since he comes in really with no expectations.

    We were discussing the performances and he brought up Degand. He thought Degand looked pretty good all weekend. He was not flashy, but was solid on D and secure with the basketball. He compared him to Gainey since he seemed to always be in control, but wished he was more aggressive.

    BTW…Degand is NOTHING like Crawford in my opinion. Crawford was turnover prone and tended to run himself into trouble by being too aggressive. Degand is the opposite, but with some of the guys being a bit too free with the ball thus far it is probably a good thing.

    I believe Degand is doing a pretty good job thus far.

  15. Trip 11/26/2007 at 4:28 PM #

    I’m only 21 and just listening to the game on the radio was going to kill me.

    I agree with JimV as far as our point guard situation goes, except for I don’t think Javi will transfer. If he sticks it out 4 years I think he’ll be a great PG his junior/senior year when Johnson graduates, and I hope that he realizes that. He’s just not a freshman impact player. Johnson will start after ACC play commences I can almost guarantee. I don’t think he’ll start his first eligible game (Davidson), but after a few weeks he’ll be there. If we can grab a PG in 2009 (John wall?) we’ll be well setup for the next 6 years in our backcourt providing that Javi does improve.

  16. JeremyH 11/26/2007 at 4:32 PM #

    lunatic: are you sure that is the updated poll? and if so, was our game too late in the day to be considered in the voting? just checking.

  17. Wolf-n-Atl 11/26/2007 at 4:40 PM #

    One other thing to consider, Villanova is known for having some of the best guards in the country – the fact that our point guards were able to play well against them shows a lot of promise.

    I would much rather see them struggle now rather than late in the year. I think these are growing pains and will be huge plus for the team later.

    Also, I don’t see Javi transferring. He has had some nice defensive plays for us and plays with a lot of heart. I think he will change Jimmy V’s perception of him before all is said and done.

  18. Lunatic Fringe 11/26/2007 at 5:45 PM #

    Well…the CBS poll showed “updated 11/26” earlier, but they showed an older poll. I just looked at it again and they changed the poll. It now shows the latest poll…

    NCSU ranked #24 and Nova out in AP.

    http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/polls

  19. ncsslim 11/26/2007 at 5:47 PM #

    We are obviously not sharp at the moment, and may well never be, but it’s been sometime since we’ve had this level of playing experience during the month of Nov. The intensity of the Orlando tournament should pay dividends as we move into ’08, and if it doesn’t, it wasn’t going to matter, regardless. Sure beats the shellackings we deliver with a not-remotely prepared team heading into conference play. We’re also seeing the parity of today’s college game; we could have just as easily have lost 4 games at this point, and some may say, most certainly would have in past years (not that they would have been played, which was my original point). Coaches are well compensated for their efforts, but I can sure think of easier ways to make a living!

  20. zahadum 11/26/2007 at 6:00 PM #

    Nothing we’ve seen so far should come as any real surprise. We knew coming into this year that we were a bad rebounding team and needed major improvement there. We knew that pg was going to be a work in progress all year, espcially when we don’t have all the parts yet. We knew that some of our guys tend to be turnover prone. And we knew that Countney has a love/hate relationship with the concept of consistency. Also I really kind of expected that Brandon would have a bit of soph. slump, at least early on.

    The free throw shooting doesn’t bother me yet. (check back with me after we’ve played 20 games.) Its really 2 guys mainly hurting us there right now, Grant and Degand. Grant is a career mid 70’s shooter, he should go up. And Degand has too nice a stroke to stay at 45%, he should go up too with more reps. He’ll probably never be automatic, but he should be able to get into the low 70’s.

    And once Degand has shown that he can play under control, (the obvious big question about him coming in, and I think his real area of emphasis at present), I think Lowe will progressively turn him loose more and more.

    The real surprises have been positive ones. JJ is even better than expected. I knew he had a good offensive game, but never thought he’d have 75% field shooting. (I know, he’ll never keep it that high but still.) The real surprise for me with JJ is what a shot blocking presence he is, didn’t think that would come this soon. His weaknesses as pretty much the same every young big man since the beginning of time has had.

    And while our perimeter d still needs work, so far it looks pretty good. Opponents fg percentage is only .384, from 3 pt only .307. If we can keep anywhere near that, continue to improve on the offensive end and occasionally get a danged rebound, there won’t be many who’ll want to play us in Feb and Mar. Duke is welcome to be the team that peaks in December.

  21. SaccoV 11/26/2007 at 8:27 PM #

    My two cents:

    1) Degand looked very impressive to me late in the game when he drove on two or three consecutive possessions against a quick point guard for Villanova and made the defense commit to him. As the defense committed, he hit guys in the perimeter for open shots. This type of play is something we haven’t sniffed since Corchiani.

    2) Rebounding is something that becomes more of a focus in practice. Since the team really hasn’t had any meaningful practices during this short tournament, I feel improvement must come from some ass-busting practices in Reynolds or the RBC.

    Final analysis: This team is still scary, and I mean that both ways. We will scare ourselves with a lack of fundamental play and we will scare other teams with our overall talent level. Unfortunately, I don’t really see Michigan State as an 11th ranked team so far. Narrow win over Oakland at home, loss of an exhibition game to Division ii school. State should win this game by a considerable margin if those practices have been as tough as I think they will be.

  22. Primewolf 11/26/2007 at 8:49 PM #

    I am disappointed in how we didn’t attack the press. The few times we did and took the ball to the hole, it was like real basketball. Most of the time we walk it up the court and then let the pressers get back in their position and then start our play with 20 seconds left on the shot clock.

    Maybe that is how Coach wants it but it puts the opponent in the position of not having to risk anything in pressing us. They will get some turnovers plus we won’t make them pay. Stats please, someone who has a recording of the game.

    Degand can’t finish around the basket and can’t, apparently, shoot a jumper or a free throw. That will be a huge liability when we play some really good defensive teams like UNC and Dook. His free throw shooting, if it doesn’t become respectible, will cost us a few games. Have you noticed how he holds his release when he makes the FT and fails to do so when he doesn’t.

    My theory on rebounding—–we are slow defenders and we are out of possition coming off screens and hence out of position. That and lack of the will to get the ball.

    Congrats on the numbers, SFN, but I don’t know how many double-triple counts are in there, like hitting back etc. That number is so high, it is well, almost unbelievable. It is like 50 times higher than one would image. WOW.

  23. WolftownVA81 11/26/2007 at 11:46 PM #

    ^Speaking of good defensive teams, WF looked pretty sharp tonight against Iowa. They are a team that can give us some trouble. However, some parallels with our game (missed FT and turnovers.) Lets hope we can make the corrections needed in a timely fashion. Looking forward to Wednesday night. Go pack.

  24. Texpack 11/27/2007 at 11:19 AM #

    Attacking a zone press requires movement away from the ball and good passing. Our difficulties in that area are really about a poor scheme and/or poor execution.

    Degand’s biggest handicap is that Grant & Fells provide absolutely no help as secondary ball handlers. If Johnson can play the 2 spot and handle the ball, he’ll be the man who plays when we face pressure defenses. Costner and McCauley actually provide us with our best match-ups if we are faced with man-to-man pressure.

    Getting beat off of dribble penetration is our biggest source of giving up offensive rebounds. We are going to have to get more help from Grant when he is at the 3. Horner is an upgrade over Grant when it comes to rebounding. Fells really does a pretty good job on the boards for a 2 guard.

    I also liked the way Sidney sorted out the playing time this weekend. In the long run some more minutes have got to come from Johnson and/or Gonzales.

  25. burnbarn 11/27/2007 at 12:00 PM #

    “Degand can’t finish around the basket”

    You must have missed that behind the backboard scoop shot with way too much spin shot he made.

    I actually like him at the basket.. I am more concerned about his jumper.

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