FBall Implosion Getting Worse

'07 Football General190

On the same day that NC State released an updated injury report that serves to rub salt in our wounds by now including our starting quarterback in addition to the previous injuries to our starting running back, tight end and offensive lineman…we have learned that three scholarship players are no longer with the team – Levin Neal, Nate Franklin and LaMarcus Bond.

After watching Levin Neal lose his job and Nate Franklin punt this year…I guess we shouldn’t be too concerned as TOB now has additional scholarhships to distribute in what has been a stellar recruiting effort, thusfar.

How many football players does NC State currently have on scholarhip? and what is the distribution by class of these players?

Earth to high school stars and JUCO linemen we have plenty of playing time available!!! Come on down!!!

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'07 Football General

190 Responses to FBall Implosion Getting Worse

  1. noah 10/02/2007 at 12:59 PM #

    When they put on those concerts at Moore Square in the summer, how many people show up? A couple of thousand? 5,000?

    Those concerts pretty much render all of downtown unnavigable by car. I’m not sure how a downtown venue with FOUR times as many people showing up would somehow make things better.

    Maybe if we lived in San Diego and had huge super-highways cutting through the downtown it would work. Or if there was a subway or metro. But 20,000 cars coming downtown? That sounds miserable.

    That doesn’t take into account the additional (huge) cost of acquiring the land (from the N&O) and the additional costs of building the thing.

    As it stands now, you’ve got a really nice complex with C-F and the ESA right beside one another, it’s easy to get to, it’s easy to find if you’re coming from out of town. That’s pretty much all I need.

  2. EverettBeez 10/02/2007 at 2:00 PM #

    no doubt that the ESA works. It does not afford the memories I believe you brought up about walking to a restaurant, waiting in line ect.
    Unlike a suburban arena, surrounded by parking the 20,000 at the game either a) walk to their car immediately and leave b) go to eat or drink and leave later. You don’t have 20,000 folks trying to get out of what 4 or 5 gates on to 4 roads. You’ve got 20,000 folks leaving over a long period of time over many many more roads.

    But sites have advantages, both have issues. I was for downtown early – and now its a major trend. We got a suburban one instead, its a beauty and I am proud of it.

  3. RochesterRedWolf 10/02/2007 at 2:24 PM #

    Someone mentioned about has certain walkons been granted scholarships, well here’s a quote from Mr. TOB himself.

    “I haven’t been able to give scholarships to walk-ons here yet.”

    Lastly, i know there is some pessimism and it may could even be counted as realism but I think its a little too soon to say that it’ll take 3-4 years before we are any good.

    I don’t have the time, i am a software engineer who works from home slave hours, but someone should compare the situation that TOB walked into at BC and that it took him two years of 4-7 ball (obviously in a weaker conference i am assuming and with much less of a recruiting talent pool) before he started building BC up, all at the same time with much less of a recruiting talent pool to draw from.

  4. noah 10/02/2007 at 2:35 PM #

    Brothers Pizza is no more, of course. Someone told me that the people who ran it now run Andy’s Pizza out on Falls of Neuse and Millbrook. Andy’s is damn good, whoever runs it.

    Two Guys is still open. Under different ownership, I believe, but still open.

    And there are a bunch of new restaurants on Hillsborough Street. I haven’t tried them, but it looked like there were some upscale places and some good greasy-spoon-type places as well.

    You can still have dinner there. You just can’t walk from the stadium. It’s not really a big deal to go down Blue Ridge and then back up Hillsborough. The crowds are smaller too.

  5. Mike 10/02/2007 at 2:39 PM #

    My parents are close friends with the former owners of Brothers. I do not think they are running Andy’s. Ironically, growing up in Raleigh, I went to school with Andy’s kids, and I think his kids are still running the place.

  6. Mike 10/02/2007 at 2:48 PM #

    Now back to the topic – Fowler is AD, and there is no way he cna spend time in every meeting, practice etc. for the football and basketball teams. He should hire competent people to run the programs. Where LF has failed is he has not had his finger on the pulse of THE 2 MOST IMPORTANT areas of his job. Yes, the other sports are important, but the revenue/major sports are first priority.

    Pamlico, honorable for you to stick up for LF, and your discussions are followed with points to back your statement. Unlike Cedar, who used to dribble on about a particular individual and who would not listen to facts, would make up his own circular arguments, it is great to have a discussion where people can see both sides of the discussion.

  7. packbackr04 10/02/2007 at 3:19 PM #

    very nicely put Mike, i thought this was a good thought provoking thread too. Pamlico did have facts to back his argument and i apreciate a good healthy convo. Dissent is alright with me as long as it is justified.

    although it is only out of frustration that many of us are feeling this right now. god we need to win a game or two so we have something else to talk about

  8. Mike 10/02/2007 at 3:32 PM #

    And Sam92, what in the world are you smoking? LF did not fire Herb. Later you said “he did not but might as well have”. No way is this even close. If LF had his way, we would still be running the shot clock down to 2 and hoisting up a three at the buzzer.

  9. EverettBeez 10/02/2007 at 3:36 PM #

    Has anyone discuss how much better the league did this weekend?
    I was so glad to see Maryland beat Rutgers. Hahaha is what I’ve got to say to Rutgers.
    Great win for FSU, but it sounded like they hung on by the skin of their teeth. There, but for the grace of an errant head, when Bama’s win.
    UVa wins as well.

    we so need a win packbackr. It would definitely lift many spirits. This won’t be an easy one. But maybe they’ll all be high after hanging on against Bama, and will over look was has to be considered a sub-par squad. This might be a good week to catch them. Now if we can just show up.

  10. EverettBeez 10/02/2007 at 3:37 PM #

    Question — in light of our problems on the field – who did unx beat those first two years of Brown’s tenure?

  11. joe 10/02/2007 at 3:47 PM #

    Brown beat GT in year 1 and VMI in year 2. GT was 3-8.

  12. PamlicoPack 10/02/2007 at 3:49 PM #

    Again, I agree that Fowler hasn’t had the best record with hiring of coaches (neither did Les; the football coaching search in 2000 was even more ineptly conducted than BB last year). I just don’t see, IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, what he could have done differently. The key question which we can all debate is what information did he have in front of him in 2005 which would have justified firing Amato then. What percentage of the fanbase (as if that really matters) wanted him fired after 2005 (bowl winning season)? Maybe 30%, and probably lower. Heck that isn’t very significant, considering that the lunatic fringe of any fan base (i.e. the people who openly criticize/question TOB five games into his first season) probably numbers 10%. No way Fowler or any other athletic director would have acted at this point. I think a lot of the fans are looking at how bad it is now, and refuse to believe no one could have seen this coming in 2005. Well, none of us armchair coaches saw this happening either.

    Someone, anyone, feel free to post an old thread/item from 2005 analyzing and predicting that our offensive line and linebackers will be an unmitigated disaster in 2007 and lead to a 1-11 season unless Amato does X, Y, and Z. I don’t think there are any such threads. I don’t think there is some secret insider information that Fowler had access to.

  13. EverettBeez 10/02/2007 at 3:50 PM #

    thanks joe.

  14. PamlicoPack 10/02/2007 at 3:53 PM #

    The thing we should all be truly frightened about is that the SECOND year after a coaching transition where the previous staff has left the cupboard more or less bare is usually the WORSE season…examples: Mack Brown’s 2nd 1-10 team was far less competitive than the first one, as Noah has documented above. Les Robinson’s 1st team made the NCAAs; the second team sunk to the bottom of the ACC.

  15. Mr O 10/02/2007 at 4:00 PM #

    Pamlicopack: I take you back to Statefansnation in Dec. of 2004…

    http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2004/12/20/does-chuck-need-to-make-a-statement/

    Does Chuck Need To Make A Statement?
    A losing record.
    Herring goes.
    Doc goes.
    Recruits begin to go (two have already decommitted).
    Mazzone, amazingly, shows no signs of going anywhere.
    An ominous silence from Amato, who is on recruiting trips, per mouthpiece Vaughan.
    I have the impression that things, like Chinua Achebe tells us, are falling apart, and the (Murphy) center is not holding. Recruits are definitely getting that impression, unless Doc was just God and thus his departure shook what was previously solid.

    What is Amato’s responsibility here? This program appears to be in chaos. Should he make a public statement? Is Fowler’s lame rejoinder in the press the other day sufficient (my view: not even close)?

    In my view, things are sufficiently awry, or giving the appearance thereof (with again actual apparent results of that awry status) that he needs to say something about his plans. Thoughts?

  16. noah 10/02/2007 at 4:17 PM #

    “Les Robinson’s 1st team made the NCAAs; the second team sunk to the bottom of the ACC.”

    And the third team was even worse.

  17. noah 10/02/2007 at 4:19 PM #

    BTW, whatever happened to Weight Loss Pills and Online Pharmacy? I miss their insight.

  18. PamlicoPack 10/02/2007 at 4:21 PM #

    That entry looks to me like a call for Amato to confirm his commitment to NC State…was he rumored to be in the hunt for another job at that point?

    and how amazing is it that with a large community of internet crazies, that not one person posted on that thread calling for Amato’s head?

    Again, in hindsight it seems perfectly clear that the first losing season was the beginning of the end of Amato. At the time it certainly was not so clear…there was still TONS of talent in the program, and every indicator that Amato could get it going again. You can’t judge people’s actions two or three years ago using as a standard what subsequently happened. What AD in their right mind would have fired Amato because a couple of coaches left and two recruits decommitted? It simply isn’t done…

    It is easy to discern patterns AFTER the fact (i.e. assistants leaving). Harder to see them at the time. I remember being shouted down on the boards circa 2002-2003 when I expressed concerns about assistants leaving–the most common rationalizations? “oh, they are all leaving for better jobs…who wouldn’t want a promotion” (demonstrably false, since Buddy Greene left for Navy).

    I think it is just disingenuous for the fans to all sit around now and claim they wanted Amato gone years ago and panning Fowler when, in fact, the majority of the fan base didn’t sour on Amato until less than 12 months ago (November, 2006, to be precise).

  19. noah 10/02/2007 at 4:31 PM #

    Losing Doc was the beginning of the end, I think. Herring left right afterwards. But when Doc left, I think about 10 guys off our board just disappeared. And Holliday was the guy who had been instrumental in not only going after the big ones, but recognizing the secondary level talent as well.

    Anyone can tell Tramain Hall was a good player. But it was a little harder to spot someone like Andre Maddox or Marcus Hudson. Especially, when they were on a field with 10 other guys who were just as good or better.

  20. Packaholic1 10/02/2007 at 4:31 PM #

    “we are without a doubt the worst 1a football team in the country”

    that’s what patience gets you…

  21. Packaholic1 10/02/2007 at 4:35 PM #

    Oh yes, another pathetic display by our fans at the game, heading for the exits halfway thru the fourth quarter. Again, mentioned on TV by the announcers. Not good for recruiting.

  22. PamlicoPack 10/02/2007 at 4:43 PM #

    To think too much patience is a vice particular to Fowler is to ignore our athletics history. The worst basketball coach in NC State history, Les Robinson, was never fired…he resigned, and from all accounts it was from fan pressure, not AD pressure. Les returned the favor by never firing MOC…Ma Fox did.

  23. Mr O 10/02/2007 at 5:47 PM #

    pamlicopack: I never wanted Amato gone. I always pulled for Amato because I wanted him to succeed at NC State. But it also isn’t my job to know what moves need to be made within his athletic department. That is the AD’s job.

    BJD95 put it perfectly on the “State of Football” entry in the “best entries” section on the right side of the main page when he said something to the extent(apologies if I butcher this)-

    Amato was the right guy for the job when he was hired, but that his skillset was not a good fit for what our program needed once we got past Amato’s 5th season(statement made 02/06).

    If we have some connected bloggers on this forum making such astute observations well in advance and we have Lee Fowler resisting making the change 9 months later after even more evidence like a 3-9 season, not to mention embarassing remarks in the media on multiple occassions, then doesn’t that concern you the least about Fowler’s ability to assess matters within his own department and make effective decisions?

    We are losing 13 starters from a team that is on its way to back-to-back terrible seasons. We return 9 srs with maybe 1 all-ACC guy coming back from a knee injury and we are going to have 54+ underclassmen on the roster. The next time we get to the point where we begin to question the direction of the football or basketball program, then it is only fair for those questions to begin and end with our athletic director. If these coaches don’t make it, then I don’t see how we can allow Lee to manage further transitions of our two revenue producing sports.

  24. RochesterRedWolf 10/02/2007 at 5:50 PM #

    Did a little lightweight investigating:

    Two years before TOB went to BC Dan Henning!! was the head coach. He came in after Tom Coughlin who went

    4-7
    8-3-1
    9-3

    Henning went
    7-4-1
    4-8
    5-7

    Then the gambling scandal kicked in

    Here are Hennings last two years (95-96 which they started off ranked #22 playing Ohio State)

    1995
    L (22) Ohio State (12) 6-38
    W Virginia Tech (20) 20-14
    L Michigan (11) 13-23 H
    L Michigan State 21-25 A
    W Pittsburgh 17-0 H
    L W. Virginia 19-31 H
    L Army 7-49 H
    L Notre Dame (12) 10-20 A
    W Temple 10-9 A
    L Miami 14-17 H
    L Syracuse (22) 29-58 A
    W Rutgers 41-38 A

    1996
    W Hawaii 24-21 A
    L Virginia Tech (19) 7-45 H
    L Michigan (8) 14-20 A
    W Navy 43-38 H
    L West Virginia (19) 17-34 A
    W Cincinnati 24-17 A
    W Rutgers 37-13 H
    L Syracuse 17-45 H
    L Pittsburgh 13-20 A
    L Notre Dame (17) 21-48 H

    So in the last 2 years, before TOB arrived they beat one ranked team. And with a few exceptions, got trounced by everyone else.

    Enter TOB in 1997 after the gambling scandal (don’t know if anyone can get recruiting rankings for 1997) but i will bet for ’97, ’98 and maybe even ’99 it was pretty bad).

    So TOB goes 4-7, 4-7 and then starts the winning tradition at BC.

    What’s interesting is that BC didn’t (maybe still doesn’t) play I-AA schools although you could make an argument than Temple wasn’t so good although they were ranked in the top 25 in ’94. So all those 4-7 years BC beat the teams it essentially should beat.

    So the only teams really like that left on our schedule are EZU and UNC both of whom have played better so far this year than we have.

    However, there’s also a lot of weird stuff that goes on and with the unfortunate/fortunate possibility that if we lose more teams will overlook us, and if we can get a little more sound fundamentally on Off and Def I think we may not finish 1-11.

    The problem is that all the teams we have left to play minus UNC will probably or could be playing for bowls. I don’t know..im tired of thinking about this

  25. RochesterRedWolf 10/02/2007 at 6:06 PM #

    The only reason i think UNC/EZU are winnable is that we have actually shown that State can contain the top QB’s in the country, we’ve actually played well against the passing teams. UNC though has as bad of a situation on the OL as we do, they’ve played 4 running backs so much so that BD burned the redshirt for Ryan Houston and its still not working. Haven’t followed enough of EZU to know them, but if they played UNC close they can’t be that much better.

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